You may be right about me being concerned – they do have some good product coming out hence is why I research it heavily. And after my research I conclude they are pretty much neck and neck pending some long term durability studies and further tests. I only stepped in this convo because the Cruze bashing and gorilla chest pumpin of the Focus was way out of line and everyone needs to step back and look at ALL the facts not only from the spec sheet but most importantly from the REAL world.

Anyway, it looks like every gm fanboy showed up here to berate a car that is not even out until mid March! So what is that telling me?? Its telling me your concerned about Ford’s World product, and that you have little confidence in gm’s impotent offering in comparison. And since the Fiesta is sooo new still many have not even seen it wait till this new Ford brings in more previous Toyota and Honda buyers to the Ford showroom. You will be seeing alot more of Ford Motor’s World DYNAMIC DUO on the street shortly

I also completely agree with you that we need to see flow meter testing on all of these reviews because I find it hard to believe that the Elantra is as good as they claim it to be as well. I don’t doubt there will be extensive reviews by every magazine coming soon. Also find it funny that no magazine ever did a comparo with the cruze when it first came out. Usually they jump right on that. Strange.

Also you should do some extensive research on your Dual Cluth problem buddy. Seems like many Fiesta customers are having their Dual Clutch tranny’s replaced already. Can’t wait to hear Mike Rowe brag about the Fiesta quality cuz I’m sure it’s reliability ratings will be terrible! LOL!

Motor Trend must have some sense if they named the Volt and Silverado HD vehicles of the year!! PS. – at least my inflatable gf is better than your schizophrenia dual clutch like gf!

2012 Focus SFE 28/40 (says so above)
2011 Cruze ECO 28/42
2011 Civic………..26/36
2011 Corrolla……28/35

Facts are that Ford and Chevy have top notch compact cars that beat the competition in EPA rated gas mileage. period.

No wacky conspiracy freaky idiotic crazy way out of the facts above.

This is the way I predict sales to go in the coming year for the c compact car segment.
#1 Ford Focus
#2 Hyundai Elantra
#3Toyota Corolla
#4Honda Civic
#5 VW Jetta
#6cruze

Safety: Cruze 10 airbags Focus 6 – until the focus is fully crash tested we will have to wait and see the final verdict but with the Cruze being a top safety pick already it’s a tie at least.

Size: Interior cargo/room – Interior size is nearly the same but with a much larger trunk the Cruze wins here.

Tech: Ok Focus has Sync/Park Assist/etc. BUT can you remote start your car from your cell phone via Onstar Mobile App when it’s 10 below outside from a mile or more away? Not yet anyways. Also having tried out Sync Nav services vs. hitting one button with onstar and getting the directions downloaded to your vehicle by talking to a live representative is FAR easier than using Sync. Yeah the service is only free for 6 months but still it’s much easier to use. I’m sure you’ve read the reviews on how complicated Sync is and how many taps it takes or voice commands for a simple task. Cruze still has USB input/Bluetooth/Onstar – all of those things that are similar to Sync.

Styling – Interior / Exterior – The focus obviously is styled more aggresively on the outside but will that style hold its flare for years? Seems like it will be a love/hate thing for most people. We will have to wait and see. As for the interior – in my opinion the Cruze is pretty hard to beat here and I’m sure the editors of many magazines will agree. Will have to wait and see again!

Powertrain – The focus seems to win here for the moment but keep in mind Chevy has Direct Injection available for the 1.4 turbo. If and when they decide to implement this the game will change. The average fuel economy increase by adding DI is 10% for most gas engines. Same with power. The reason they didn’t implement this right away was for cost reasons but with the competition heating up i’m sure they will rethink this. One final note – yes the ford has more hp and accelerates faster but torque is what ppl drive and the cruze has a lot of it – down low where you drive everyday. Just read some initial reviews saying how the Focus has to downshift on slight grades all the time. Pretty annoying IMO.

As for the transmission – I’m sure you read this article by your friends at car and driver:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/11q1/2012_ford_focus_sel-short_take_road_test

The transmission already having glazed clutches at 3,000 miles!?!? If there is any truth to this at all boy will Ford have an issue on their hands with the durability of this transmission. The 100k powertrain warranty looks pretty good on the Cruze right now doesn’t it! I’ve read articles that these transmissions have yet to show good durability over the long haul. All speculation right now but it’s sure something to keep an eye out for.

Handling – The cruze is tuned to be more cushy and even though it should have a nicer ride than the Focus it still handles nearly as well. Initial skidpad numbers show them neck and neck. So this really should end up being buyer preference.

One last note – Car and Driver didn’t write a very favorable review for the Cruze either so saying they are so pro GM is not so true either. I think they are on the right track with both cars. Also look at the as tested fuel economy numbers. They got 21 mpg with the focus and 25 with the cruze. Real mpg is what matters so we will have to wait and see what all the comparos come up with when they are side by side.

2012 Focus SFE 28/40 (says so above)
2011 Cruze ECO 28/42
2011 Civic………..26/36
2011 Corrolla……28/35

Facts are that Ford and Chevy have top notch compact cars that beat the competition in EPA rated gas mileage. period.

No wacky conspiracy freaky idiotic crazy way out of the facts above.

So I am going to instantly move beyond my initial reaction of calling the cruze eco into question and call its false eco mileage for what it is .. a DAMN LIE! Accept it consider yourself and your beloved cruze Defeated.
The other thing you don’t get more torque with a Gasoline engine.Diesel engines yes, but not gasoline engines. I am sure as long as GM did’nt lie about the torque the way they did the hp then the Ford Focus is clearly Not only the more economical choice meaning it won not only the MPG war but the power war to as well. a 138 HP can not compete with a 160HP engine CAN’T. Ford wins again.

And I’d be willing to put money on the fact the cruze may not have even broken 40 MPG. if the same engine is regular city mode only gets 24 MPG which SUCKS BTW.then it gets 35 MPG Hwy and no more than 37 @ the very most.

The sad part is that . that would have been the only thing the cruze could have offered over Focus if it indeed won the mileage war. but it lost that too! Its all down hill from there. I sat in both of the new cruze and the New 2012 Ford Focus and I can tell you. Ford has a winner on its hands
I sat in the cruze and I though the instruments are ok but nothing special. the Steering column adjuster was loose and had a extremely sloppy feel to it when adjusting. I mean the Ford Focus has a Genuine Global look to its car and an absolutely beautiful body. While I could pull the chevy’s cheap looking front end off a traverse, equinox, aveo, mailbu, and that HORRID piece of cheap plastic that separates the upper and lower grill on a chevy can be found on all chevy trucks as well. I guess one size fits all at gm /chevy. However as a true global vehicle the global customer is certainly different than the american palette. I am sure gm will catch on after a decade or two if there around or they can get another goverment bailout!
The Ford wins again with several class exclusive features.
But I think what it will boil down to is the voting for either car.

So lets just give the Cruze six more months of EPA mileage leadership and then wait and see who beats Cruze in the next year with gas mileage..

Facts are facts and Cruze has the highest rated, non hybrid, non electric EPA rated gas mileage.

And this is important because the initial comment that started this diatribe was that Mullaly said that he would not approve any vehicles w/o best in class fuel economy. And I would bet a year ago he felt that the Focus would meet that criteria.

Unfortunately Chevrolet also had that requirement for the Cruze and they upped Ford by a couple miles.

Apart from you incessantly claiming 45 MPG for the Passat, your latest diatribe was again filled with only emotions, opinionated claims, and conjecture, like those before it. Whatever your opinion and however you choose inside yourself to arrive at some strange method of determining that the Focus actually does achieve the best mileage in its class, you’re still refusing to observe fact; perhaps because it does not support your fantasy. In part, I think that defines a fan boy. Just like certain politicians, you seem to think that through enough diversion and by repeating certain falsehoods you will convince some of the masses. Maybe, but when you get to that point, I think you need to reevaluate your beliefs and motivations, unless you enjoy being another man’s tool.

By the way, here are just a few references establishing that I am right and you are wrong on the 2012 Passat’s MPG:

“2.0L TDI Clean Diesel, 43 mpg highway” (from VW’s own 2012 Passat blog site) http://blogs.vw.com/passat/2011/01/10/2012-vw-passat-101/

“VW projects fuel economy of 31 mpg in the city and 43 on the highway” (from a Car & Driver article) http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/11q1/2012_volkswagen_passat_official_photos_and_info-auto_shows

“VW says that in addition to a completely new exterior and interior, the new 2012 Passat will get a clean diesel engine with an expected 43-mpg fuel economy rating” (from the Diesel Technology Forum) http://www.dieselforum.org/news-center/press-clips/2012-volkswagen-passat-revealed-vw-claims-43-mpg

In a way I’m sorry for doing that to you BK2009, I’m beginning to feel bad. What was your source for your 45 MPG claim again? Your personal visit to an autoshow? Pardon me for believing VW’s own published words on the matter over the shrill voice of a fanboy acting out of desperation to prove a woefully lost point. That’s an appropriate screen name you’ve chosen since I’m beginning to think you actually are bankrupt, intellectually.

Beyond all that, you try still try to rationalize entering a diesel-powered, D-segment vehicle into a discussion squarely focused on gas-powered, C-segment cars. Despite being consistently wrong on the Passat’s MPG (I’m still waiting for ANY published references to support your lie) you justify using the false numbers and attempt to link the two by pointing out that both are ICEs! Wow, talk about jamming a round peg into a square hole. Historically, I have never seen diesel- and gasoline-powered vehicles competitively compared with respect to fuel efficiency, unless to compare those specific differences. Maybe a reference would help support your odd comparison? But, in your world it is necessary to compare apples to oranges so you feel as though you out-smarted someone (sometimes you’ll even solidify your position by ending with an “end of story”). I can lead a horse to water but cannot make him drink. I’ve learned through this discourse that it’s even harder when dealing with a parched jackass.

(BTW, you don’t have to type “ICE engine,” as the E in the acronym stands for “engine;” what you typed is equivalent to “internal combustion engine engine.”)

And I hope this horrid looking focus is nothing but problems for Ford. That’s justice for us having to look at the horrid appliance on the road.

And the Volt gets even higher! So it owns it. Wait, the Leaf does not even use gas!! So it wins.

Besides all that, and in yet another apparent diversionary ploy, are you now turning the discussion on fuel economy to one on performance? We’re comparing SFE to Eco. Buyers of these vehicles are typically not putting drag results at the top of their priority lists. Man, you are all over the map, a definite indication you have no defense. At some point, I must take your rapidly decaying argument as a method of silently conceding defeat on your part. I’m sorry to have let the air out of your reply but next time, fill it with more substance so I’m countering data and not emotion.

BK2009, unlike you, I am quite open about the fact that I have a brand of choice; however, I still try to remain objective in these discussions. I can go back over the last couple of weeks and collect samples from your comments that show you do not exhibit objectivity but rather an abundance of juvenile tactics to apparently try to sway people’s opinions to match your own. I’m not certain if it is sourced in blind loyalty to the Ford brand (and if I’m not mistaken you’re a shrill for Hyundai as well), or if it has more to do with a concentrated hatred for the GM brand in particular (Michael Moore fan maybe?); possibly a combination of both. In any event, you come across as non-objective by consistently, without fail, thrashing on GM-related news (good or bad) and puffing up your brand of choice following its news (good or bad). As a result, the first sentence of your response is somewhat bewildering to me. True, I am a GM fan but also a proponent of other domestic brands and a car lover in general. But I also accept when my brand of choice is being outdone. When a GM product doesn’t perform well on some statistic, I don’t clamor for an excuse (including whacky conspiracy theories) to support it.

You again state that the EPA is fallible and then opine that there isn’t much difference between 40 and 42 MPG; those opening sentences are a mixed bag. True, as with anything accept God, the EPA is fallible; however, apart from any substantiated claims which would result in a retest, the EPA is generally trusted due to standardized testing. Since you’re hinging your position on it, do you have substantiation for your claim? Has Ford disputed EPA’s test methods or results? I’d be interested in researching the alleged problem so please provide the appropriate references. Once broken down, in an apparently amateurish effort to cast doubt on EPA’s test results, you have done little more than throw out an accusation of fallibility that ultimately applies to everything. As I said, juvenile tactics. I’m curious if you would be questioning EPA’s trustworthiness as you are now if the results for Focus SFE were 44 MPG, 2 MPG above the Cruze? Likewise, would you still state that a 2 MPG difference is not much? We both know the answer to those questions. Think about it and maybe you’ll learn something about yourself.

(And FYI, 2 MPG is a huge difference. Imagine two additional miles on each gallon, particularly when already achieving the efficiency these motors do. That’s substantial. Going from 40 to 42 MPG is a whole lot harder than going from say 35 to 37 MPG. Fact.)

Your next effort is a real gem but I see where your error could be rooted in semantics. Yes, VW does claim estimates of 43 MPG for the 2012 Passat (although, it’s the Jetta that is VW’s nearest rival to the Cruze); however, in order to try to prove my statement wrong, you entered diesel into a clearly gasoline-related discussion. Further, the 43 MPG statistics (that you conveniently rounded up to 45) are estimates provided by the manufacturer, not the EPA. Are you familiar with the phrase, comparing apples-to-oranges? Maybe not, but I know you’re familiar with diversionary ploys.

While you claim, “No other 160HP [sic] engine will approach 40 MPG like the Focus, though So it is a strong value,” this article simply states that for the next Focus “estimated power is expected to be 155 horsepower and 145 lb-ft of torque.” No mention about what adding the SFE package does to those power estimates. As of now we only know the standard motor’s power estimates and, apparently separate from that, fuel economy ratings for vehicles equipped with SFE. Until we know those details, it’s potentially an apples-to-oranges comparison you’ve made. Further, your point is not only misleading but, as such, damaging to your position because the estimated torque rating for the standard Focus is actually marginally lower than the Cruze Eco’s torque rating; torque being the number most commonly associated with “power” amongst typical drivers, not horsepower. That, despite the Cruze still having the decisive EPA-rated mileage advantage.

I truly think Ford is doing a good job and I’m delighted to see the domestics, in general terms, kicking some import butt (sorry Fill). I comment on this simply because Ford fans are constantly bashing on GM products so, accordingly, I sometimes do the same. It’s amusing to me to read the reactions of certain Ford fans on this topic. Suddenly, near also-ran stats are defended and even creatively explained away (refer to BK2009 comment, below). When Cruze’s EPA numbers broke, I remember certain fan boys mocking it saying how much better the competition would be, particularly the Focus. It was all speculation and the day of reckoning came and went, and Chevy Cruze is currently on top.

Classically, for a conclusion, you insinuate foul play by hypothesizing that people at EPA colluded on a fraudulent plan to cheat for the Cruze, as some sort of back-up strategy to explain Ford’s shortcoming, just in case the first ill-conceived explanation didn’t do the job.

I won’t say “end of story” because I’m confident enough in my position to continue in the discussion. In fact, I’ll give you a freebie… a better argument for you to present would have been that Cruze Eco only achieves its class leading MPG with the six-speed manual; whereas the Focus achieves its best MPG using the automatic (besting the Cruze Eco automatic’s MPG), a transmission choice that Ford alleges as being historically most popular in this class. (See, unlike some on here, I’m not entirely blinded to fact by my brand preference.)

Freebie notwithstanding, Chevy Cruze currently holds the MPG title in the class, that is if we’re still utilizing the industry’s standardized method.

The 2012 Honda Civic is going to crush the porky lousy fuel economy Chevy Cruze when it comes out. Oh wait, 41 MPG and that is with a marketing trickery version with a HF label on it.

The 2012 Ford Focus, that is going to crush the porky lousy fuel economy Chevy Cruze with it comes out. Oh wait, 40 MPG and that is with a marketing trickery version with a SFE label on it.

Well the Elantra, that is going to do it. When the Elantra comes out no one will want to buy a Cruze, they’d be crazy too. Whoops, didn’t “crush” the MPG on the Cruze either.

Gee, the porky lousy fuel economy outdated rebadged underpowered Daewoo Cruze with its class leading interior, 10/100 warranty, and 138 HP/148 torque is looking pretty good at 42 MPG, marketing trickery Eco badge and all.

Anyone care to admit they were wrong? Ya…that’s what I thought.

No other 160HP engine will approach 40 MPG like the Focus, though
So it is a strong value
DrFill

Ford’s much ballyhooed Super Fuel Economy package fails to beat or even achieve Chevy Cruze Eco’s amazing benchmark EPA rating of 42 MPG highway. This would indicate initial failure toward the goal set by Ford. Or, has Mulally’s goal been abandoned already?

Plus, Toyotas weren’t recommended for most of last year, because of the recalls

Way to keep up!
I can always count on you to be…..you
DrFill

But come on… Consumer Reports is in Toyota’s pocket, just like C&D is in the pockets of BMW and Honda.

I’m also guessing that if you ticked every option box this thing could easily be in the 24-25k range… just like the Cruze. That’s about the same money as a Chrysler 200 Limited or a Sonata Turbo. And if you insist on staying in the Ford camp that’s also a pretty nice Fusion.

$5 a gallon come summer? I think Ford’s banking on it.

Smells like that won’t be the case.
160HP and 40 MPG requires a SFE
DrFill