I would concur that there is no interest

Jaguar has the name, and the heritage to do very well under the right hands. If I had the money, I would buy them.. Land Rover on the other hand, has turned into a luxury only SUV company, a market which is good now, and for a few years, but will definatly start to decline rapidly.

I’m not too surprised by Jaguar not receiving much interest, but the fact that nobody wants Land Rover is a bit of a surprise. If the two where sold independently of each other I think that with a savvy business man and an infusion of cash (they wouldn’t need much) Land Rover could become a very profitable niche player. Land Rover is a world renowned name and has a lot of off road and snob appeal clout. The Defender 90 could be a Jeep Wrangler (maybe H4) combatant, with a Defender 110 the more upscale “Rubican/Alpha” version if you will. The Range Rover would remain where it is but a stripped down version ( Land Rover Discovery perhaps) being available to the more rugged crowd that wants an alternative to H2’s and Toyota Land Cruisers. They would as I said be a very niche player, but there remains a very strong interests in truly capable off road machines that are viewed by your neighbors as hip and cool and Land Rover covers that market very nicely. They carry all the positives of Land Cruisers with none of the negatives of Hummer H2’s.

Jaguar could possibly be saved but with their recent marketing campaign (anybody remember the gorgeous tag line?) and lack of any real product it would be difficult to say the least.

Oh well, I’m not in any position to purchase either, so I’m just talking out my ass.

ha, Acura_el2000 replied while I was still typing. Ironic that we have almost exact opposite viewpoints on the two brands.

Land Rover is at the bottom of JD Power and Jaguar is at the top. Yet Land Rover is the profitable one. Jaguar is on the brink of having a fantastic line-up; Ford’s timing shows their desperation.

I think there isn’t a buyer because LR/Jag doesn’t fit in anybody’s line up without overlapping. Most of the Japanese have a premium brand and the Germans are already there. Only the French seem lacking in premium luxury cars and SUVs.
(Paging Carlos Ghosn. Please report to the front desk.)

Selling the 2 brands apart is better. LR was put in there to sweeten the Jaguar deal, but it didn’t work. So plan B: just sell Jag, and KEEP the LR profits.

I don’t actually think Ford is desperate to sell off Jag and LR. With the sale of Chrysler, I assumed Ford thought it would be a good idea to put LR and Jag on the block and see what happens. They have the cash to restructure according to Leclair and Fields.

If someone came along and offered $5-7 billion, I’m sure Ford would sell them with a smile. However, if all they’re getting out of both is $1-2 billion, why sell if the XF is coming and LR is profitable? As far as I can tell, the PAG is going through a massive redesign at the moment.

That said, someone could come along and assume some debt and pay out some cash and get LR and Jag – we’ll find out at the end of July or so.

On paper it would make sense to sell both together since they don’t overlap each other, and they are both born from British roots. The problem may be that in this time of CAFE rules getting tightened, the interest in expanding into the heavy SUV and/or premium performance sedan segemts may be waning. Aside from nostalgia, are either of these brands relevant anymore?

I think it is tragic.
Jaguar was a once famous brand, with a glorious racin gheritage. I believe they have been mismanaged into the current situation by a larger American company that was leveraging the name to try and generate a profit (ie: x-type), and they blew it.
Jag could become great again, but maybe not huge…there is a difference.
What they need (aka: my “way forward”):
Each and every car must be gorgeous, high performance, and with state-of-the-art technology.
1. Luxury sedan (XJ) positioned at ~$125K. That is above BMW 7 series but below Bentley. V8 with 400hp.
2. GT, coupe and convert, V8 and V10 with 400hp and 500hp options. Restyle the XK from A-pillar forward, make the back seats as usable at the Maserati Coupe. ~$95-115K.
3. Sportsedan (XF), V8 and V10, compete with M5 and AMG directly. Do not cheapen it lower than ~$80-90K.
4. Sportscar, 2 seater, coupe and convert, V8 only. Small, light and with stunning performance (read…F-type).
All other cars gets scrapped, never put in a V6. Never allow a Jag to be anything less than spectacular.
It needs to be owned by British firm to build that character back in (but with Lexus quality). That need to forget the idea of volume and use production targets more in keeping with Maserati. In essence they need to become the British Maserati (like they were in the ’60s).
I believe this would work.

why was my comment pulled?

thanks for putting it back….

As bad of an idea as the X-type was, Jaguar was headed for the big parking lot in the sky had Ford NOT intervened. Those billions would have had to be dumped into the company even if it weren’t managed by an American company looking for profit and prestige.

It’s likely that the Jaguar brand would have ended up in the hands of a Chinese firm today, and that would have been the real end of it.

Well, that’s what happens when you’ve bought 2 ****ty car brands in the first place. Ford NEVER should have bought them, but now that they’re trying to sell ‘em, nobody wants them….with good reason. Maybe they should be spun off and let them rot on their own before pulling the mothership down with them.

Regarding Land Rover: with fuel prices and greenie consciousness both trending permanently in obvious, skyward directions, who would want a maker of insanely overpriced, compulsively overengineered, shamefully inefficient and unreliable, politically incorrect SUVs that are by most objective measures the worst-built major-brand vehicles on the planet and hemorrhage street value the moment you sign the papers? Nobody.

Italiafan.. while your “way forward” plan is interesting — I’m sure Ford has contemplated moving Jaguar upmarket now that they don’t have Aston Martin to defer to — it probably wouldn’t work right now. Jaguar has lost much of its prestigious image due to sharing platforms with Ford and using engines derived from Lincoln and Land Rover, not to mention the whole X-type marketing debacle and the botched XJ redesign and recent facelift. Granted, the XK is pretty nice, and the XF looks promising.. but there are no expectations that either can or will match their BMW/MB competition, much less go after Bentley.

In a related story, Ford recently announced that the Mercury brand is on the market. Anyone…anyone….
C’mon, nobody wants to buy Ford vehicles without heavy incentives much less an entire brand!?!

I can’t really comment on LR, but I know first hand that Ford had one hell of a shock when they bought Jaguar. They now make good quality vehicles, but the image is a bit staid. They need the XF to be as good as the concept to temp younger buyers to the brand – something which ironically the much maligned X-Type also did for the first time in years. People also don’t seem to realise how much the Jag designers of the coupe & ragtop were reigned in because it would then compete with Aston.
The XJ also needs to come out of the last century design wise. Engine, transmission, quality wise it’s there, but the design to me says either “rug on the knees old people drinking a nice cup of tea” or “fat balding old man in his late 50’s thinking he’s the bees knees’.

I also agree that Bentley would be a target too far… way too far

This confirmed that Land Rover is crap!

Italiafan, well stated. I agree that Jag needs to remain a spectacular halo brand. Borrowing Ford platforms to put out ****boxes like the entry-level Jag (I don’t even remember what it was called) is an abomination.

Land Rover, I don’t get why no one is interested. I would have thought they would be lining up to buy that one.

haha!

Ford and Jaguar’s original plan was to go up against BMW and Mercedes Benz, but having a complete model line-up starting with an X-Type. From now on there are going to try to make more nichesque cars that make you ache with desire.

I think the X-Type is going to get a slight redesign and then completely redesigned after the new XJ comes out.

I agree with Italiafan; there is some sound reasoning. However, six cylinders are part of Jaguar’s history and they will help the brand lower their overall emissions.

Both brands are in micro-niche markets, neither of which is performing. We all know there is a trend away from SUV’s, so that leaves LR high and dry, and Jag’s reputation is tarnished so badly that it would take years of building vehicles with above Lexus quality and reliability, as well as knock-out design and style to win over the buying public. Their situation is not all that different than what GM and Ford face, with a large gap between the actuality of producing high quality vehicles and the perception that they do.

That being said, Jag has also been left way behind as other premium brands have introduced new, substantially changed or higher performing models (BMW and Mercedes primarily) while Jag has stood pat.

Italianfan is right on the mark.

The Jag XJ has an aluminum chassis that I believe is less complicated and better than what resides in the Audi A8. Jaguars rep is good, there just doesn’t seem to be any interest due to stodgy design and mediocre marketing.

Good discussion.
I too agree that Bentley is beyond Jag, the point was to position Jag as the English Luxury sedan more “attainable” by being below Bentley, yet still made exclusively and positioned above BMW and the like. I agree that it’s image has been cheapened and they have a huge struggle ahead. The point was that for it to have that “credibility” it would be best if it was owned by a British consortium….that was passionate about making Jag once again the way Lyons envisioned it. Just look what havign Prodrive behind the new Aston has done immediately for sheer luster….and Aston going into F1…absolutely mind-blowing. Jag can do it too….but it will take more work.
People tend to have short memories. If each car is beyond reproach in design, performance, and quality construction then the “days of Ford ownership” will be forgotten and Jag will be back. Modern Maseratis really no longer suffer from the horrendous ’80s Biturbo era. Nowadays when people think Maserati they envision Coupe/Spyder, Gransport, Qporte.

The problem Ford has is the cost of R&D for future Jag & LR models. LR is profitable and Jag has some potential in the new line. Now is the time to sell the brands while they are attractive to buyers. Very soon Ford will have to dump a lot of money into PAG R&D on new models that we wont see on the roads for 5+ years. Ford doesn’t have a great track record coming up with something new that consumers want to buy. The gamble for Ford in PAG R&D is huge and its money they don’t have to spend. Ford needs to sell these brands while they can bring a decent price. In 5 years if Ford holds on to Jag/LR & doesn’t do things right with the PAG R&D these brands wont be worth nearly what they are today. Ford needs to get out while the getting is good.

Italiafan, your earlier post wasnt pulled and put back. It was simply not showing becuase of a glitch in LLNs code. When you submitted your second post asking why it was pulled that caused both posts to show.

Same thing is happening to my post above this one. LLN sometimes doesnt show a post until another one is submitted. LLN needs to fix the glitch in their code. This post should make my previous one and this one both show up.

If anyone ever is not seeing their post, just submit another post with a period or something in it. Both posts will then appear. If LLN sees all these posts with periods in them they may get a clue and fix their site.

.

“Land Rover is at the bottom of JD Power”

JD Power my ass. Their reliability studies are unreliable. They treat a broken engine the same as a knob falling off of your radio.

No **** that cars like the Toyota Corolla with basically an engine , full tank, windows and radio fares well. There’s not much to break.

I THINK BOTH BRANDS ARE GOOD…..ALL THEY NEED TO DO IS TO REVITALIZE THOSE MARQUES.

GO BACK TO DRAWING BOARD AND DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR JAGUAR AND LAND ROVER.

Ford never turned a profit on Jaguar. Land Rover was better when the Bavarians owned them. If they sell both whoever winds up with them will make them better Ford is worthless