Too bad Chrysler didn’t make the Challenger more competitive in terms of pricing and weight reduction. A very big mistake, once again.

I’m more of a chevy guy I guess but its all to bad that Ford neglected on the independent rear suspension to help aid the mustang with a price advantage just to get knocked off the hill this early. Hey, Anybody know if Ford is considering IRS on the mustang past 2011?? It seems as if the same geometry used on the previous generation cobra cvould make thisn fairly possible. One of the biggest things that turns me off about the mustang is the lack of IRS. Fill me in!

Chrysler doesnt have as wide of a production gap to cover though. That helps, even though it had to be that way anyhow. How many Mercedes components from two generations back can there possibly be?? My GOD!

Ha! I’ve been saying all along that Camaro eats Mustang’s lunch. It feels wonderful to have my opinions validated by the marketplace. Like all Ford products, Mustang is BORRRRING (relative to Camaro). And there is no way in hell that Ford would be planning a “major powertrain upgrade” were if not for Camaro breathing down Mustang’s neck.

I’m not a diehard GM guy, but I’ve owned both Camaro’s and Mustang’s and I’m here to tell you that Camaro is infinitely superior.

I know many people who are driving their last gen model, who were planning to buy this new gen model, but are now waiting for the 2011 models with their new engines. Ford has nothing to worry about! The real competition has always been between mustang and camaro, dodge is done!

i guess the newness of the camaro will wear off and people will realize its only a camaro..its really no match for a mustang especially as a daily driver. the camaro exhaust sounds like a chick car! and dont forget, even the PT cruiser sold well when they came out.!!! and now where are they?!.and to comp guy, the lack of irs while a little disapointing, keeps the price low. and it drives amazing, and handles awesome, even with the solid axle..have you driven one?

I’m seriosly in the market right now – I’ve looked at just about everything, besides Chryslers and Toyotas, to buy around 23-25k after rebates and whatnot. i love the Mustang’s looks. It’s a killer package that has me thinking of seriously buying one BUT… Right now for the money I want to spend, I have to look at the V-6 that sucks. Period. Why would I even consider buying a Mustang V-6 when I KNOW they are replacing all of the engines/trannies for 2011 with superior – 120% better parts?

So now I want only a GT if I buy a Mustang – but $1000 + financing doesn’t make up for the fact of the prices they want for a GT now. You could buy a fully optioned 2005 GT NEW for $28,000, now you can’t even get a base one for that. The price increase for 5 years has been beyond unreasonable. If they want to pull momentum either offer a $3000 rebate AND financing OR just start stickering these cars for actual transaction prices – meaning $6,000 off sticker. Otherwise $1000 is a joke.

The fact that the 2011 Mustang GT will have 400hp didn’t help either.

This a sale for the secretaries. If you don’t have two pairs of lips there’s nothing to see here.

I got into a camaro this wknd at the oc auto show, I almost threw up from the smell of all the cheap plastic… however, in the mustang I almost got an errection from the smell of all the leather… u choose

Bottom line, camaro really sucks. ID RATHER HAVE A CHALLENGER IF IT MEANS THE INSIDE DOESN’T REMIND ME OF A PLASTIC BALL PIT FROM CHUCKY CHEESE’S

howsmydriving
Ha! I’ve been saying all along that Camaro eats Mustang’s lunch. It feels wonderful to have my opinions validated by the marketplace. Like all Ford products, Mustang is BORRRRING (relative to Camaro). And there is no way in hell that Ford would be planning a “major powertrain upgrade” were if not for Camaro breathing down Mustang’s neck.

I’m not a diehard GM guy, but I’ve owned both Camaro’s and Mustang’s and I’m here to tell you that Camaro is infinitely superior.

Wow you couldn’t be more wrong. I will forget the fact that you are a 16 year old Fan boy that should be ignored and instead stoop to your level. Of course the Camaro is selling well it has been chased out of production for years by the Mustang. I predicted an 8 month run of higher sales then the Mustang till they drop off and all rednecks get their Camaro’s order filled. Let’s not forget that the 315hp 5speed GT runs damn near identical numbers with the 400+HP Camaro (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/09q3/2010_chevy_camaro_ss_vs._2010_ford_mustang_gt_2009_dodge_challenger_r_t-comparison_tests)

But I encourage you to sit in a 2010 Mustang then a Camaro and I dare you to say with a straight face that the Camaro isn’t standard GM grade (matel plastic) interior and design.

They must be offering some good prices to Hertz to try to move these things as I’m seeing more Mustangs available at regular prices..not even as a specialty car and higher rate. It makes for a decent rental as long as you never have to carry more than 2 people

This is more about moving the 2010’s in front of the intrduction of the 2011 in April. The 2010 was rushed to market ahead of its powertrain upgrades to counter the New Camaro. Th Camaro is very dramatic looking and fast as long as you are going in a straight line. The Camaro kills the hype about the advantages of IRS in Muscle cars. The Mustang handles far better and the quality, fit and finish is far superior. The Camaro interior is terrible. Like I said, it looks good, but anyone who drives both 2010 versions and understands all aspects of a performance car, will come away preferring the Mustang

I think that the absence of the Camaro from the automotive market over the last 7 years is the only reason this car is selling now. I’m a GM guy and there has been at least one Chevy in my driveway for the last 18 ears, but the Camaro can’t compete with the Mustang on the track or the highway.

The Camaro and Challenger are great novelty cars, but the Mustang is truest to it’s heritage.

The camaro is not standard grade GM plastic, its worse

I’ve NEVER in all of my many years of going to autoshows been so dissapointed and insulted by the interior materials used on the inside of the camaro. 20k for that? PASS

And btw, u can eat our lunch… we’ve moved on to dinner

the mustang handles well on a track, but every reviewer comments on the lack of IRS on the street – where 99.9% of mustangs spend their time…ford should just get with the times and develop an IRS so this silly argument ceases to be a relevant issue…

if i were in the market i’d hold out for the power upgrade, incentives be damned…

Makemfast, did you miss the stat for acceleration to 140MPH where the Mustang trails by twelve seconds. How is that damn near identical? I like both the Camaro and Mustang, but the Mustang needs the coyote engine now.

DenverGuy217 -

You rent from HERTZ??? Why???

LLA –

You are right… They should have just put it on the DEW98 (Jaguar S-Type and XF/Lincoln LS/Ford Thunderbird) platform back in 2004 like they were going to do, but they swore it was too expensive (I think that was a cop out though) but what can you do? Old Ford was ran by a great spokesperson in Bill Ford but as his commercial saying the only car he ever needs for the rest of his life was a 2003 Mustang Convertable shows – he’s not too smart on dem cars.

@ howsmydriving-
What do you mean the ‘Stang is boring? It’s quite the opposite….the Camaro only has horsepower over the Mustang, but the Ford is so much more agile and responsive due it weighing 400lbs less. Get your facts straight kid. Also, the Camaro’s IRS is real ****ty…very poorly setup. The Mustang’s SRA pulls 0.95g on the skidpad.

The Camaro’s interior is awful as well, and the Stangs is very much improved and make you believe you bought a real car and not just an engine and styling (which the Mustang also has).

Come 2011 the Camaro won’t tough the Mustang in terms of sales or performance figures.

All the car mags RAVED about Mustang’s handling on the roads. They complained about Camaro’s hefty weight and poor handling!! IRS or not, it’s all BS. Who effin’ cares??? Only 1% of the guys will take the cars out on track and complete in races and whatnots. Get real!!!!

One of my local dealership is offering a 3-year lease on a new 2010 Mustang GT, i repeat, GT for $273 a month with ZERO down payment. They said it’s NOT a mistake for the payment to be that low! Im definitely gonna head down there and see what happens.

FCUK Camaro for not offering navigation!!! Wow…. talk about lost sales……

There was a recent comparison test between a shelby gt500, a camaro ss & a mopar rt.the shelby basically killed in every category..yes its more $$ but its well worth it if your really want the power. OR
For around 40K you can find a pre owned 07 of you cant swing the 50+ for a new one. A SS camaro is in the mid 30s to 40…what would you rather have..a 07 GT500 or a 2010 camaro ss?!
And if you really ‘need’ IRS, look for a terminator svt 03-04 and blow the doors off ANY camaro straight line, turns and looks, not to mention an exhaust note gm cant match!

To add on – They do use half the DEW98 platform for it’s front end…

I have a friend who owns a 2005 GTO with mods and swears if he could get the money, wants to switch the independant rear on his with a solid axel due to reliability and stability of the solid rear.

Hmmm… Definitely agree about IRS and Mustang it would complete the car. I don’t buy the tradionalist argument for its omission. Anyway there have been a lot of articles written and arguments about this one of the latest was back in June:

2010 Ford Mustang: Near Enough is Not Good Enough
Posted June 18 2009 11:43 AM by Angus MacKenzie
#
But the thing that annoys me most about the GT500 — about the whole 2010 Mustang range, for that matter — is the live rear axle. It’s the wrong technology, done for the wrong reasons; emblematic of the cynical “near enough is good enough” attitude from Motown management that helped drive Detroit’s automakers into a ditch.

At the launch of the S197 Mustang in late 2004, Ford countered criticism of the live rear axle — a setup last considered state of the art by the rest of the world’s automakers back in the 1970s — by claiming an independent rear end would have added thousands of dollars to the cost of the car. That would have been correct had the S197 Mustang shared elements of the heavy and expensive DEW98 platform, which underpinned the Lincoln LS, Ford Thunderbird, and Jaguar S-Type. But it’s not quite the whole story.
#
Mustang chief engineer Hau Thai-Tang did a great job with the hand he’d been dealt, and the detail tweaks to the chassis for the 2010 model give the Mustang remarkable poise… for a live rear axle car. And there’s the rub: Good as it is, the 2010 Mustang could have been better.

#
Now here’s the punchline: My well-placed sources say that once the noise, vibration and harshness, and driveline angle issues were solved, the S197’s live rear axle actually ended up costing Ford $98 per unit MORE than the low cost independent rear end originally developed for the car.

http://blogs.motortrend.com/6523204/auto-review/2010-ford-mustang-near-enough-is-not-good-enough/index.html

DB9;-)

PS. Curious, why y’all talking about cars all of a sudden… this is LLN right?;-))

Angus is a hack…complains for the sake of complaining. A live axle shelby $55K will outrun most cars this side of $ 85K including his precious BMWs. I think he found something to complain about the IRS 03 cobra too! maybe he shoud stick to his prius or insight or whatever he drives

I don’t know why you guys put so much effort into this crap! Here is how I see it
Camaro= Unknown reliability, got recalled right after production(LMFAO), too big, to heavy, inefficient transmission.
Mustang= Reputation shows it’s reliability, has been around longer to be perfected, handles better, efficient transmission.

If I were a millionaire and didn’t care about money, I would buy the camaro. If I was the average guy, like the people on this forum, I would be driving home in a mustang gt! The camaro is just an image to me, nothing meant to handle or do anything else but drive in a straight line!

As for the rear axle…the only real people who complain and b!tch about it are reviewers and people who don’t own it! I love the mustang for what it is! If it got turned into an independent rear setup, I would hate it!

Wait a minute!
Nobody wants ugly cars with weak V8s anymore?
Is it 1989 already?

BTW, I didn’t say this was going to happen
No, I didn’t
Nope
DrFill

Can’t wait for that 2011 Mustang GT!!!!!!!

>All the car mags RAVED about Mustang’s handling on the roads. They complained about Camaro’s hefty weight and poor handling!! IRS or not, it’s all BS. Who effin’ cares??? Only 1% of the guys will take the cars out on track and complete in races and whatnots. Get real!!!!

One of my local dealership is offering a 3-year lease on a new 2010 Mustang GT, i repeat, GT for $273 a month with ZERO down payment. They said it’s NOT a mistake for the payment to be that low! Im definitely gonna head down there and see what happens.

FCUK Camaro for not offering navigation!!! Wow…. talk about lost sales
<

IRS is not about handling at the track, its about not getting your kidneys readjusted everytime you hit a pot hole and about stability around turns when you hit a rough patch. A solid rear axle is ludicrous.
As for navigation-you really need that in a muscle car!? How metrosexual of you.

BTW, I actually prefer the Mustang otherwise because its smaller and has better visibility.

steve333 – read recent Consumer Reports road test on the Mustang. It is quite balanced in the absorption of potholes and road imperfections. A well-engineered LRA is a better choice than an average IRS. This is my first Mustang and it is one of the most comfortable cars I’ve owned – an excellent long distance cruiser that rivals my previous Germans (Audi & BMW). Drive one then report on your experience.

Shocked? I’m not the only one… Read the Winding Road review that compares the ’stang convertible to the 3 series and Infiniti: http://www.nextautos.com/showdown-mustang-gt-infiniti-g37-and-bmw-328i-convertibles

From the Winding Road review linked above:
“The ride comfort of the Mustang is very good for a sporting car. The relatively soft suspension isn’t soft in the luxury car sense, so ride on the road is sufficiently firm to be enjoyable. The Mustang also handles bumps pretty well. The live axle is occasionally upset, but much less than you might expect. The seats are also well designed for comfort, with good firmness and backrest shape.”

http://www.nextautos.com/showdown-mustang-gt-infiniti-g37-and-bmw-328i-convertibles

I can see the camero being an issue only for a couple of years. At this time it does not seem to be a well put together car. The molding strips on the dash are already peeling off. This could be do the humidity in Florida. But, it still does not say much for the camero engineering that its already falling apart. The local dealers are adding extra double sided tape to hold the moldings in place.

NickelDime you are the most limp wrist pussy to ever rear his/her ugly head on these hallowed grounds. You read a what? A consumer reports test of the Mustang? Nobody on this site gives a flying f*ck what Consumer Reports has to say about anything that doesn’t pop toast or clean my gaunch. Seriously, please use the pages of that publication to line your bird cage or patch a hole in your drywall or wipe the sniggots off your ass but do not under any circumstances refer to anything they have to say about cars ever again.

Ok… I take some of that back. LLN has never been considered hallowed grounds.

So you give me grief for including CR in a list of a bunch of other respected trades, but not for the guys who are whining about the bumps in the road that may hurt their sorry arses due to a live axle?

Makes sense. Glad you nitpicked that and wasted all our time reading your sorry excuse for a post (which is par for your course).

Good gawd ND… I was kidding. But I want to thank you for stroking my ego nonetheless by actually thinking I was serious.

I’m on pacific time, johnny. I haven’t yet had ma beer. And no, it ain’t molson.

This is the offseason for this segment and Ford wants to sell some cars. 3 quarters of the country are preparing for snow, not rear wheel drive purchases. 0 percent…whooppeee. $1000 cash..wowweee. If it sells cars on the offseason its a good thing …right?? Has nothing to do about Ford vs Chevy. If the Camaro was in its 5th year of its current design, 0 percent and $5k cash would be the deal.

Even the people that build them think they are a cheap plastic toy that will be obsolete in a few months: Transformers Edition…enough said.

A few months on the sales chart does not wipe out what Mustang is and will continue to be continuously for over 40 years, the original and best.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/09q3/2010_chevy_camaro_ss_vs._2010_ford_mustang_gt_2009_dodge_challenger_r_t-comparison_tests

ND, me too.. the Pacific time thing…obviously not the beer thing! Sorry to get off on the wrong foot.

No worries Johnny – my fault for reacting. Cold beer is gooooood.

That is really embarrassing for the Camaro, imagine if they had used the GT500.

jdasch1 so true.

i’m guilty as charged on CR…i’ll use consumer reports to counter people that claim the GTI has a rep for high quality…the black circles don’t lie…

on the ’stang, though, i could see forgiving the lack of IRS…for some it’s a deal breaker, but for many its not…what is a deal breaker is the new powerplant…for what a gt costs, buying one now would be foolish…i’m a ’stang fan, too, don’t get me wrong…i would rather go ’stang than camaro (too big)…how ’bout an ‘11 ’stang bullitt version, please?

Where do I begin:1st off Ford Sucks! All of you knew that as soon as the Camaro started kicking the Mustangs a!! in sales,that Ford would start giving them away like they do with the F-150. Even the Ford fanboys say the rearend on the Mustang looks like a diaper.Mustang is an old in the tooth design.How do you re-design retro? They tried with the rearend and f!!!ed that up! If Ford ever puts IRS in Mustang, it will weigh and cost as much as Camaro.It’s just a matter of time bfore GM fine tunes the handling on the Camaro. The be-all end-all Mustang killer will be the Z-28! Maybe Ford will steal somemore Toyota technology to try and compete with the Camaro,but in the end it will be useless.

Can’t wait for the 2011 Challenger with the 6.4 Hemi!!!!! 500+ horses and improved gas mileage to boot!

Camaros and Mustangs are great cars…..for girls!

Buy USA,Does that mean Challenger is for fags?

Has anyone on this site actually driven the new camero? it has to be one worst designed autos for visability. Wife and I took one for a drive. We both looked at each other at the same time and said. “Is this a joke” ? More blind spots then 18 wheeler. And bits of plastic on the dash all wiggly and falling off to boot. Mustang has nothing to worry about when it comes to the quality and longevity of the camero.

Yet with all the comments above Camaro is selling like free hotcakes and Mustang is putting on the incentives. DATA shows what the customers want TODAY.

Only time will tell if the Camaro is only selling due to pent up demand due to its lack of a few years of production OR that customers are actually buying due to its appearance and other characteristics.

It sure is hot looking.

All the Camaro boys are cheering over a temporary sucess for Chevy, it’s a brand new car that I’m sure people have been praying for Chevy to bring back since they axed the Camaro in ‘02. Plus the Mustang is a few years old, and could use a powertrain update (Which it should be getting soon). I’d be shocked if the Camaro stayed on top for too long.

I’m not trying to trash the Camaro, I was sad to see it go and I was happy to hear Chevy was bringing it back (And other than the fact it needs to go on a serious diet I’m impressed by Chevys work). The Camaro and the Mustang go well together, and I’m glad we can watch the rivalry unfold once more.

I personally don’t mind the lack of IRS, but since so many people complain about it (Even though I’ve never had my kidneys readjusted going over a pothole, and I expect a slightly stiffer ride in a sports car… I get the idea many of you trashing the Mustang have never driven one.) I kinda wish Ford would at least offer IRS as an option just to shut people up, maybe with a special track package (I know this idea is probably unrealistic).

Oh well, both great cars.

No thanks. I’ll take the 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe, please.

The IRS argument is kinda stupid when you consider that the ‘Stang out handles the Camaro and Challenger. It also rides better than the Camaro, though I think the Challenger has a pretty good ride.

The only REAL argument here is HORSEPOWER. Chevy has it and Ford doesn’t. Ford screwed up by not offering the Coyote 5liter. They pretty much nailed everything else on the Mustang but HP is where it matters. Of course the Challenger also has a lot more HP but it’s a pig and a half so we can forgetaboutit.

Throw in the Camaro’s pent up demand and it is easy to see why the Mustang has easily been outsold over the last year. GM built a pretty damn good car in the Camaro and they deserve the success they are seeing. The Mustang’s refinements were HUGE but missing that power train upgrades was just too much of a mistake.

Even with the rebates, there is no way I’m going to get a 2010 Mustang. I’m still going to wait for the 2011 GT with 5liter.

As if we haven’t had enough chat about the camaro/mustang/challenger, some moron brings in the fukin Genesis….GTFU!!!

Alot of you are giving off stank uneducated opinions about IRS. And it just smells. If IRS is stupid to you, well then, its just stupid to you. Outside of the immaturity that sums up that opinion, there lies a more advanced way of automobiles. IRS means alot more to those whom really do take it to the track or are serious street enthusiasts. The 3-link live axle on the current mustang is great and all however, thats all it is. A 3-link live axle. A 5 point multi link IRS, such as on my 328is racecar, or the 4-link rear suspension on my 96 SS Camaro drag car are a universe of differences. The much heavier Camaro might not round an autocross track faster than everything with a solid axle rear, but then again it wasnt built to. Duh. Its a pony car, hello. It cruises over bumps, pretty well, cause of its IRS. What the BIG DEAL is when it comes to a want for the mustang having IRS, and appearently a dissapointing amount of people aren’t aware of this, is that when you have IRS and tune it for the track, or even the street, you are given a considerable amount of adjustments that can be made to associate your car with your own style and skill, track conditions, the track itself, your daily driving and on and on. And I havent even mentioned the awesome parts you can purchase through aftermarket and or factory means. Once you start purchasing parts to replace every link and joint on a car where each tire is given the ability of making maximum or minimum contact through almost unlimited adjustability then you see why those in the know consistantly lower thier laptimes, giggle like school girls on the way to work, reach speeds they’ve never been to and enjoy a mountain of savings though prolonging tire life, chasis rigidity, trips to the pump, trips to the Chyropractor, wheel strength, electrical gremlins, so on and so forth. within the current mustang you have the option to lower your tire pressure. Oh, and remove the anti-roll bar to do some drifting. I personally like to live my dreams. Thats primarily because I choose not to be stubborn and synical and throw a fit like my daghter does when nobody around her sees it her way. Even she evolves.

I like to autocross (big suprise) and my solid rear 1998 v6 stang with a couple of suspension upgrades (fully adjustable coil overs, rear sway.. etc) trashed a 01 camaro ss and a 2010 ss. I’ll admit they both sucked at driving (must be a GM thing) but my point is if you don’t mind paying for it you can make a solid rear handle better (and be very comfortable) without a whole lot of trouble, hell you can do ityourself if you have the brain power to operate a jack and a wrench.

Plus the mustang after market following kicks the Camaro aftermarket followings Vag

To auto x: All I needed when I built my 4-link on my Camaro drag car was a jack. I built the rear suspension on my machine bench and shop floor but instalation was simple. The lower arms are two and a half inches longer than the top links. Damn that helped matters with anti-squat way better than any other 4-link I’ve used. I guess its not too bad as far as comfort when I drive it on the street. But no way in hell is it as sweet as a 5 multi point!

Camaro’s are terrible autocross cars. Fun as hell but NO grip. Alot of that has to do with so much bottom end torque. Autocrossing mine is still fun but the corner to corner gaps a Chapaign Ill. autocross track all have turns between them. Even if they were straight I still would have to much wheel spin. It’s a truelly challenging course and IRS is a must! Without it you have inverted drift as your only driving style. Fun, but lap times are bad and you have NO consistancy between them.

Don’t get me wrong IRS is cool and if you got the cash to keep and going and add a few goodies it will do you better than a solid. awhile back I had a guy offer me a complete cobra rear in exchange for my setup plus some cash. I passed (the cobra IRS is made out of glass BTW)

Because……

with a solid rear you have about 3 things that car really go wrong.

with IRS it jumps to about 300 and that’s just not worth the headache to me. Cause if one thing goes wrong your done for the day

From what I have seen the rear that GM put in the Camaro is pretty solid but lets be honest they put it there for comfort first and for performance second

You are exactly right. And it WILL freaking go wrong to. One of my buddied autocrosses an ‘04 GTO. He’s had links crack before. The car is simply not made for autocrossing. However it still performs well and gobs of fun. His deal is that he replaces broken parts with OEM equipment. I would always recommend that as well but the OEM links are urethane, I believe. All my race cars have metal on metal. Yes, I know, it is noisy but i’ve never had a suspension crash on my cars I autocross with now. (BMW 328is, all wheel drive eclipse, and MX-5 miata.) My old s4 had a simple a-arm failure but could not be driven home. I’ve had 2 axle cracks in my Camaro though. Both were at Cordova Dragway Park in Cordova Ill.

Yeah, of course the IRS system on the Camaro platform is for comfort. When the driver’s is movement is kept to a minimum his confidence is at his highest within himself and on the cars current location in time. The platform the Camaro is built upon was produced to house many different models. The IRS is simply the way it had to be.

Hey, Auto X, if you get bored check us out! ccsportscarclub.org. If you like to travel I could neet you there on any event. October 30th’s rally is comin’ up.

Every month it’s the same thing.

*Camaro outsells Mustang for another month*

“Yeah, that’s just because the Camaro is new. The sales will drop off next week and the Mustang will rise back to the top of the heap (sour grapes).”

See you all again next month.

comp.mode..now i know why you giggle on your way to work..you drive a 3 series bmw..the ultimate chick car!

The fact that you know he giggles on his way to work is a bit creepy…

Haha Never know who’s watching( 0 0 ). I drive a 750iL to work, but the giggles are still there. Lol.