and I guess I’m not the only one who kept seeing Steve Jobs in that picture!

. But wait, First off Volt is not Offically even a product yet, because it s NOT in, on, or under the market place as if yet! So you can’t EWVEN buy one. So where am I going with this. You can’t get one.

Secondly even if you could buy one and most importantly Volt’s lack luster Electric performance specifications its only able to eek out 40 miles before the battery goes dead and needs to go looking for an electrical outlet. Thsi would drive most owners crazy. Plus according to inside sources it will be way over priced starting at $40,000 K and to most working class people they could not afford it.
I mean if 40 miles is ALL you get between charges; then that not only sucks but its unacceptable. Better have a real long extension cord available if you get it. So I and most of the buying public ain’t goin for that extension cord boloney. Now if you want a real global competitor then Nissan is more serious in this reguard about its electric vehicles in its new and upcoming cube and promises a range of 200 + miles that at least is decent range between charge cycles that people can live with.

So. 40 miles does’nt cut the muster DrQuack with most cars shoppers. So ergo you have no REAL argument for GM being competitive in the global market..

Don’t mention Aveo which is a piece of junk or Impala that picked up on the Old Ford Taurus design theme. I have yet to see one product that Speaks of the Future of Transportation from GM. None
All I ever hear coming out of GM is Bull Loney and about how big and bad and stupid they are. That’s a about it. Nothing more nothing less. Sure the quality of their cars and trucks has improved but they still have eons to catch Ford much less the Imports

Case in point, GM has absolutely nothing to compare to the Coolness of the Honda Civic or Insight ok just does’ nt.
Everything about the interior of GM speaks of two things. Copy this copy that copy that and Cheapness. No origiinality whatsoever. oh yeah originallity when it comes to crap and something that falls apart maybe but that’s about it.

The same for Toyota they have a much better line up than anything GM has to offer that is a Fact!

Ford meanwhile has Ecoboost to reduce the size of their engine that not only deliver higher horsepower but saves fuel as well. DIrect Injection Um lets take a look at GM shall we. Old still fooling around with old
Push rods with out multivalve engines in performance cars like the Corvette. Kind of Dinosaurish if you ask me. Yes

Oh yeah and by the way your just the run of the Mill GM ass kisser DR Fill. I have run into plenty of your type of GM retard who will love GM’s dumbness to the absolute bitter end.

Just so you know I have driven plenty of Brand new GM vehicles (Junk Piles) as my father had owned every brand that GM owns. OR Heck maybe I should just save your inflated ego the trouble and just call them what they are all rebadged Chevys, because that is what GM is still doing!!!!!. No differences between them. Same Motor and Chassis just different gay styling. Take a look at Buick Enclave and Chevy Traverse, Plus too other nameless brands overlappying that. SS Different Junk pile by GM. That’s it smy friend. if you call that innovation and being globally competitive then your off your rocker. And go see a shrink to minimize your sense of self grandeur for GM.

I’m sick of 5 or 6 different brands that claim to be different but are’nt souped up, gaudy, and rebadged Chevy because that is all they are. Their is no difference. its the same difference.
Oh yeah My father owned Ford and Honda too and those vehicles were all amazing and Great to drive unlike GM.

As YOU probably don’t know, most of the fixed costs are contracted, and were inherited by this administration

Telling us what COULD happen in 2010 does us a lot of golod
All of these companies could be bankrupt by then!

Here and now, GM is just about competitive globally at least with their product
Ford and Chrysler are not

I’m all for a bailout, but not a welfare system
Let me know when you have an original thought
DrFill

However, I am still in favor of the big three getting assistance as they should from our government. I think both the comments Inline 6 and the gentleman after made are dead accurate. is absolutely right we do NOT need to change management at the Big Three. That’s not the problem.

The problem is mulitple things at this point you have the credit crunch caused by lenders giving folks who can’t truely afford a home a mortage and second the oil prices went beserk, and plus all the layoffs, global down turn as well this caught them off guard. Could Ford, Chrysler or even lowly GM made a Prius or Honda Civic Hybrid fighter Hmm yes. Did they no. But if you look at even Honda or Toyota their feeling the impact of the down turn as well.. You guys listening to Dundered heads like Chris Dodd looking to change CEO’s or Dingo’s like Nancy Pelosi looking to put a 90 year old geeser as a car czar are full of it. These Law makers/ Senators and White House Staff are good for one thing absolutely NOTHING.

The bottom line u can’t let these auto manufacturers fail. I’ll give you an education since you obviously need One in this matter. If the US no longer manufactures any Engines of any kind; then what powers our Military??

Think about it. I know some of you will have a Brain fart over this one. You can not rely on a outside or foreign Engines if we needed to go to war.

I need to point out to you the things the Big three are doing right.
Lets start with Ford their are the least in trouble since they have a financial wing to rely on.
Ford is brings to market both smaller Direct Injection/Turbochargered motors to market under ecoboost
and Mulally says they will have an Electric by 2011

Chrysler is in the works to bring a Electric Vehicles to the market in 2011
GM is to also bring a Electric Vehicle to market under the volt

can someone define “reliable” for me?

Most of the time I see a car broken down on the side of the road it’s either a 2000s Japanese car or an OLD American car that maintenance has obviously been neglected.

I have been one of the few here who has said DON’T fire the current management, and have backed up Putz and Wagoner in particular. I like what GM is doing!

GM is they ONLY domestic mounting a credible defense in the car market.
They are heading in the right direction, as a matter of fact they are most of the way there
Makes Ford look like it’s standing still

The REAL problem is Elvis has left the building, and he ain’t coming back
Money can’t buy you love!
DrFill

Many of the Broke 3 vehicles over the past 5-6 years are vastly better than their forebearers, and are SOMEWHAT competitive in function and even quality (rare, but they exists)

JDPower’s Durability Index showed Lexus is in another world of quality, as per usual, and the domestics are showing signs of brilliance, but Chevy Ford and Chrysler still trail Toyota and Honda significantly, so I’d stop passing out cigars

If you have a problem with CR and JDPower, guess what
That is YOUR problem
JDPower told Toyota they were building crap 35 years ago
CR said Toyota had some poor showings last year, for the first time in decades
Even the best have taken shots
It’s how you respond that counts
DrFill

Your post proves my point. Since 2000, when Wagoner became CEO, GM’s vehicles have become as safe as Toyota’s. In fact, the Saab 9-3 was the first car to get the IIIHS’s Double Best Pick award.

Why should Wagoner get fired for making GM’s vehicles safer?

Dodge Ram just had a 5-star crash test
Great!
Go bac to 2000
The last generation Tundra
Compare it’s crash test to F-150, Ram and Chevy
You might learn that safety is a fad in Detroit
Many standard safety features on Tundra are still options on Silverado

These recent occurances at the Broke 3 are old hat in Japan
Hate to break it to you
DrFill

I think that Gas mileage is a real indicator of how reliable a car will be. So then the Malibu, which gets 33mpg highway, must be as reliable as the Honda Fit. And the Tahoe Hybrid must be as reliable as the Camry. And the Cobalt must be more reliable than the Corolla. The EPA (our own governmental agency) releases those figures!

You say resale value proves reliability. Fine. I say EPA fuel economy estimates do. I win. You lose.

I’m saying that, according to industry experts (the ones I cited) the domestics have proven that they cars they’re building now, and have been building for the last 3 years are just as well-built and reliable as the Japanese’s are.

THEY ARE PROVING IT. 1115 is trying to say that, because Camrys and Accords hold their value better than Malibus and Fusions, they’re more reliable and better-built. He is (without providing ANY facts) saying that JDP, CR, Strategic Vision, etc. are all wrong, and that his RESALE VALUE sources prove GM/Ford build cars that are less reliable. I think that’s like using a ruler to prove something’s purple.

If his logic were correct, the Mini Cooper would be the highest-quality, most trouble-free vehicle available because it holds it value so well. It’s actually one of the most trouble-prone, along with a lot of other vehicles that hold their values well (Jeep Wrangler, any VW, Audi, BMW, Land Rover, etc.).

He’s giving his opinion, and saying that something that has NOTHING to do with the conversation proves it. That’s total bullsh*t.

Lion Im sure you are in law school lol and Im sure your sister is a nice person …who is a whore and cant drive Tell her next time she gives head she should be the passenger….

You are a very interesting cookie. Sometimes you extol the virtues of the domestics, but then you qualify it the next time around by saying they just cannot measure up to the Japanese. We are all starting from the same point, which is that the Domestics made a lot of mistakes in prior decades, but that just is not so anymore. You know Ford topped all of the Japanese for safety in the latest “source” (which tripleonefive is having a heart attack over as he attempts to portray it as not a “source”). There are even some “sources” (word of the day around here) that say Ford is on par with the Japanese for build quality. It all just comes down to perspective and you, DrFill, are smart enough to know that.

Pointing out the obvious to the oblivious?
Not a sound investment
Kinda like buying a Ford
DrFill

.
And 1115, stop raiding daddy’s liquor cabinet.

NADA AND KBB ONLY EVALUATE USED CAR RESALE VALUES. They DO NOT evaluate vehicle quality and reliability. Using KBB to prove the reliability of ANYTHING is like using a ruler to prove something is purple.

WHERE is your proof that the Ford Fusion and Chevy Malibu are less reliable or more poorly built than the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord? You don’t have any.

The Mini retains its value better than any car on sale right now. But it’s consistently at the BOTTOM of the reliability surveys.

Your comment about recalls is even more asinine. Who has recalled more vehicles in the last 3 years? TOYOTA.

So shut up until you can find a source that proves your point about RELIABILITY, not resale values.

Alright, sorry buddy. I did not realize I was dealing with an unstable individual. My apologies to those who have to love you. It is nice to know how much you regard the lives of others since you apparently have something against a woman who never did anything to you and who has owned three Hondas. Do you really wish to hurt Honda so badly that you are willing to associate them with yourself? Ah well, enough with the name calling. And just so you know, I am in law school and inline6’s sources can come into court cases, but I am done wasting time on you buddy.

The auto industry is FUBAR without a fundamental change in the way the unions and the laws work in America’s manufacturing sector. I, however, am more bullish about the effects of the UAW contract change set to begin in 2010, as well as the quality of the products that GM and Ford have in the hopper for the near term.

All things being equal, prepackaged bankruptcy would be the best option for the companies. But we can’t guarantee that customers will buy a bankrupt company’s products in sufficient quantities to ensure they’d be able to emerge from Ch11.

The cars that GM has out now will take at LEAST 10-15 years with no problems and no major recalls to prove their worth. There is no study out now that can say that the car is reliable bc there isnt one on the road with over 100 k yet and their more than likely wont be due to the D3 track record

Anyone who argues opinion vs fact is an idiot and that seems to be you and the cowardly lion.
J2 Honda and Toyota build better cars than D3 does and its FACT due to the above mentioned reasons
As far as your 1 in a million story about your sister PLEASE Tell her to learn how to drive and I bet she knows about impact from T bones.

You could learn a thing or two about disagreeing honorably. Just because you dislike a source does not mean that everyone does. inline6 is allowed to trust any source he wants and there are plenty of us who agree with him. So quit with the nonsense where you pretend your opinion counts more than anyone else’s opinion. You do not walk on water and neither does Honda. I do not care how often I have to relate this story: Honda made a 2008 Civic with side impact airbags that DID NOT DEPLOY when my sister was t-boned. That nugget of personal experience outweighs any of your boosterism of Honda, which just happens to be a Japanese automaker. On another note, please stop with the expletives. You are too smart to lower yourself to using expletives to make your point, which, otherwise, has some merit.

The Cobalt doesn’t come with a 6-speed auto. You’re thinking of the Malibu. The Cobalt does have a cheap interior, comparatively. The exterior styling is totally anonymous, as well. But you’re right about the mileage being excellent. And so is the SS model.

I gave you 3 reputable sources. You have given NOTHING to refute that but your ad hominem BS.

NADA and KBB are for used car values. JDP evaluates QUALITY, RELIABILITY, and OWNER SATISFACTION. Those are different, I think you’ll agree.

PROVE the lower resale values are because of lower reliability. Were that actually the case, VW, BMW, Mini, Land Rover, Audi, and Mercedes-Benz would have the WORST resale values. Jeep vehicles hold their value among the best, but those ARE shown to be of low quality by the surveys you’ve just debunked.

The car is very serviceable, and GM parts are cheap: Today I had a 2003 Toyota Camry come in with the Check Engine light on. The problem was that the heater circuit in the “air/fuel sensor”… Toyota’s version of an oxygen sensor, was open. The part was $180. A similar part from GM is only $60…………. and THEY DON’T GO BAD AT ONLY 60,000 MILES ON GM CARS!!!

The NADA and KBB values are used in US courts of law and JD Pay for Play Powers is NOT

3 years I need you to answer my question after taking a look at resale values and see what cars are worth more. Stop making bull**** excuses
Just like GM admitted they make **** cars you can to It will set you free

Look an Hyundai
They’re in the same noat as the Broke 3
NOW they want tol make good cars, and be taken seriously, and shed their sorry-a$$ image
And the can’t
With 4 new models added to their lineup, brand sales have stayed flat or fallen for 4 years in a row
Why?

Because nobody likes Hyundai
Nobody trusts Hyundai
For every Genesis sale they make they lose an Elantra or Sonata sale
Hyundai doesn’t want to wait the 10-20 years they spend wrecking their image to repair it
So they throw money at the problem
And where is it getting them?

The domestics are done
Not because they can’t build good cars
Because they choose when and where to do it
This is Chess
It ain’t Checkers!
Good luck finding buyers when you have to admit that you’ve been screwing over customers for decades
The truth will prepare you for bankruptcy
DrFill