let the paranoia begin.

Great, make it really easy to steal identities. My debit card has this. I never use it, and I don’t really like it.

If multiple cards/ids can be read at distance how the trooper will know who is operating vehicle? I think it opens whole new chapter in legal debate on civil liberties. I am surprised to see near communist Vermont in same company as Arizona, which I thought was fairly democratic (as in democracy not party).

Well let’s say a trooper or an officer is directly behind the vehicle on the side of the road, and I’m sure these RFID scanners probably won’t have a scanning range of more than 100 or 150ft they can pretty much visually judge who is operating a vehicle.

However Autonut, I don’t think that’s really going to be the main purpose, Law enforcement will be using these to weed out illegals. If there’s 4 people in a vehicle and only 2 or 3 I.D’s pop up on the scanner then the cop will already know something is up. Also before they approach the vehicle they will know who they are dealing with so this could make things safer for law enforcement officials.

Also this article says “the news licenses will allow holders to cross the border without a passport when new regulation enacts in 2008″. Michigan is one of the three states that is complying with this. Michigan is also a Democratic and liberal state. We even have a liberal (Canadian born)female Democrat for a Governor, so why would they enact this? I think they may have because we share our border with Canada, and I myself who already has a passport usually cross over the river to go to Windsor at least once or twice every two months. So for the traffic of U.S citizens that cross the border into Canada this would be helpful.

I’m not a proponent of this but I’m just offerring some insight.

This could help 1115 and Joe Dirt find their parents.

SS4LIFE: and I’m sure that’s why Washington State is in on this as well. I can’t speak for your border lineups but the two main ones into British Columbia, the Peach Arch and the Pacific Highway Truck Crossing, are nuckin futs 90% of the time. Anything that could possibly ease the lineups would be appreciated.

If I lived in one of the states - I would be first in line at the u-haul place to get the hell out.

SS4;So now if your from out of state visiting riding shot gun with friend. They assume Im an illegal?

They should only do this to criminals as punishment, what the hell do they need this for. The gov’t is always looking for new revenue. They are selling our roads to Foreign investors (who do you think owns the toll roads), they will sell your info to marketing companies to make a buck. These will work hand in hand with the new eye recognition tech going into billboards. And the internet tracking everything you do on your computer. And the black box they want to put in all the cars. And the chips the humane society puts in you cats ass.
OK now Im getting paranoid. But really when we have the most people in jail of any legitimate country in the world maybe we should just back the F up and stop acting like J Edgar Hoovers paranoid little bitches and drop the witch hunts. We have lost more rights/freedoms since GW and 911 then we had lost as Americans the previous 150 years.

BIG BROTHER COMES! WHAT DO YOU DO? I WILL KEEP YOU SAFE! HE SAYS! AT WHAT COST? YOU REPLY. YOUR COUNTRY! HE WISPERS UNDER HIS BREATH!

Just another thing so big brother can keep an eye on you…

Really, I don’t care who it’s gonna help find, or who it’s going to keep from crossing the border, it’s invading my privacy. From what I’ve read, these chips can also be read through satellite, and store much of your personal data. Sometimes I may not want to be found, or give someone the ability to know where I am every single waking moment. And other times, I don’t want my name coming up on every police cruisers screen, or for people checking my liscence to know every detail about me, what I bought yesterday and where I’ve gone (which is what these RFID cards come to, they have the “future ability” to monitor your purchases and travel).

And why enlist this when:

-It’s voluntary, you won’t be able to tell the difference between illegals and citizens without the chip
-You can ensue more punishment towards these people when crossing the border.
-The border can very well be secured with the flocks of people coming through. Either there’s not enough employed people, or the ones that are employed for border patrol aren’t doing their job, because obviously there hasn’t been a serious attendance (or anything done about it for that matter) to decrease this threat. And then the solution they come up with only melds Canada and Mexico closer together and invades my privacy.

SS4LIFE I don’t agree with argument that all passengers in the car has to have licenses. In large cities on Eastern sea border there are plenty of people who don’t drive (there is excellent public transportation in NYC, Boston and Philadelphia). I don’t think that driver license is a valid document to cross border any longer, please correct me if I’m wrong, since I am flying not driving across borders. Liberal democrats do have tendency to watch over their citizenry just like communist or fascist societies, that is why I have disdain for them. They are much more totalitarian then ‘red’ states in their nature. I guess all the states involved in this are border states and perhaps it is meant as a measure for easing border crossings, but the whole idea of a trooper knowing all about me without cause is akin to 1984 (the book).

Yay, go Homeland Security! Another program that will be cracked by the black market in 6 months, and the illegal flood contnues!

My god, how a government can be this incompetent just baffles me. And this is a federal department that came from a supposedly “conservative” administration. Sure sounds like another step towards social/commun/ism.

It’s amazing how a superpower can set its own fall in motion so completely. These are not the days of real Americans anymore. Soon our national motto can be “America - It’s kinda like Europe, but with more Mexicans”

Not surprising that this new Big Brother program comes from 3 of the most bat**** insane liberal big government states. Arizona is the only surprise.

Honestly, I’m not sure why liberals hate the Bush administration so much. They are more alike than they think.

I’d much rather prefer mexicans than the arabs in france. In any case, if you have the $ you shouldn’t be living in US right now. There are far more freedom in other countries if you know how to play the game.

Putting more people in jail and cracking down on those who pick lettuce is the goal of this legi. Hardly sounds like it fits in the “liberals” agenda. Arent the conservatives the ones who want to jail anyone who knows a pot head and push the Mexicans into the sea.

Go Hillary in ‘08, just kidding.

New RFID blocking wallet and the deluxe RFID jamming wallet.

Trust me, Swerve, the far left’s vision of total control is far more dangerous than the right wing’s “War on Drugs”.

NICE. NOW THE GOVERNMENT CAN KEEP TABS ON YOU WHEREVER YOU GO

I agree with jdepould… the bad guys will have a RF reader in no time and will be stealing DL Numbers with birthdates, height, weight… whatever.

Veda; How do you define freedom?

Is it England where there are cameras writing tickets at unprecedented rates.

I hope it is not by protecting child molesters from U.S. law like France does.

I hope it is not by buying your way out of killing and raping like the rich can do in Mexico and all other latin nations.

^^^^^^ What he said.

Freedom exists nowhere anymore.

People, Arizona is not as free from government intervention as it once was. In the past 5 years there has been a flood of liberals from CA moving in. The laws and makeup of the state has changed dramatically. Except for the gun laws AZ is as liberal (left wing) as CA with more big brother than CA.

There is photo speed & red light cameras on most intersections. Parts of freeways have photo radar & radar vans are all over the place. There is more vehicle focused big brother in AZ than any other state.

Phoenix (where 85+% of the population lives) has a text while driving ban. The state has a California-like smoking ban. AZ also has the strictest DUI laws in the country.

I’m not saying these are all bad things. I’m noting no other state in the country has more big brother and strict laws. It doesn’t surprise me they would be the first to jump on the RFID monitoring bandwagon.

Gone are the days of a free & open Arizona. This is the new era of government involved Arizona.

johnnycanuk: Yeah There are a total of three border crossings from Michigan’s lower peninsula into Canada and one in Michigan’s upper peninsula. The Detroit Windsor tunnel and then there’s the Ambassador Bridge. Often coming back into the U.S (it’s easier to get into to Canada then it is for me to get back into the States) but I’ve found myself stuck in the tunnel or on the bridge for a couple hours sometimes. I’d do anything to make it back and over in less time.

SwerveEarly. Yeah there’s definitely going to be some problems when only three or four states have enacted this and when you are a license holder from another state visiting and you don’t show up on their scanner. Unless all the states enact this it won’t work perfectly. I do see your point clearly

Autonut: You are right as well. Not everyone has a drivers license so how would that work unless then then mandate that everyone require a picture ID so they can then put a chip in that too. And yeah for those that are under the legal age to drive there will also be problems. You make a good point as well.

You are also right and I agree with you about the drivers license not being enough to get through borders. Which is why you need at least one form of picture I.D and a copy of your birth certificate to prove residency. (I’m glad I have my passport) I remember about 10 years ago you didn’t even need your birth certificate or a copy to get through but a lot has changed.

Again I’m not exactly saying I’m liking this idea myself but i’m a law abiding citizen and unless i’m doing something wrong and i’m not Big Brother doesn’t have crap on me… lol

SwerveEarly

your comment on the rich in mexico getting away with raping and killing was just retarded.
Last time I checked O.J. Simpson got away with it and he’s from where?? oh yea, here
and what about Michael Jackson? Robert Blake? hell even Kobe.

mmmmmmmmm kfc, now you did it im hungry.

jumpoffit, or ted kennedy…… hell even cheney, i am sure i would go to jail for shooting my buddy in the face.
no not like how astin shoots his load in his buddys face.

Wait until they start putting these in us at birth, you know, like they’re doing to animals. They’ll know our name, birthdate, social, and whatever else they might want to know. Insurance companies are apparently pushing for this, although I don’t know how they’ll benefit? At any rate, I’d rather have it in my license than my arm.

This is a baaad idea…mkay?!

>>Again I’m not exactly saying I’m liking this idea myself but i’m a law abiding citizen and unless i’m doing something wrong and i’m not Big Brother doesn’t have crap on me… lol<<

Problem is, what’s legal today may not be in a few years at the rate we’re going — once you’re “ID’d”, computers can combine all the info from a hundred databases to flesh out a complete profile on you. Big Brutha may not like your selection of high-fat foods, DVD rentals, charitable contributions and the websites you visit. All these techno-advances start off with good intentions, but every one of them can (and likely will) be used to reduce our liberties in the dubious quest for “Homeland Security”. This is FAR more than just a fancy driver’s license!

If the Government doesn’t like my selection of foods, DVD’s and websites that I’ve visited they can suck a fat one. Yeah you heard me Fed’s! What you gonna “I’D” for saying that lol…

I see your point too vm54.

Those who do no evil have nothing to worry about… DAMN I HATE THIS IDEA!

SwerveEarly: My definition of freedom is simply to be able to drive anywhere without speed limit as my passion is to drive fast everytime anywhere (they’ll say reckless in US). However, you should be responsible for any killing or crime you did from your “excessive” action. No country is perfect, but as long as you can get what you want without hurting others, it’s damn good enough.

F that, I will disasemble the id and take the RFID chip out.

autonut wondered about those who don’t drive - from what I understand when ID becomes mandatory in all states, I think congress set deadline of Feb 2009, you will have to have the ID to board commercial aircraft, obtain a gun permit or hunting license, etc

“Those who do no evil have nothing to worry about…”

And who defines evil? The lawmakers a.k.a. the government!!! Soon enough they will make buying food without an embedded chip illegal! Then we would all be doomed!

I’m right with ya, doublearon21, sharpie. This idea is horrendously wrong. Whoever came up with it is a disgrace to humanity. Seriously.

I think it’s too soon to be paranoid.

First of all, from this article, the RFID doesn’t seem to give law enforcement any more information than is available to law enforcement at the customary contact points (i.e., traffic stop, border crossing, etc.).

To illustrate, let’s say you’re caught speeding, and the cop either runs your plate and/or stops you and asks for your license. He goes to his laptop in his squad car and pulls up all the DMV has on you, as well as any info. from warrant databases. And if you have passengers in the car with you, you can bet the cop can ask them for their IDs and check their warrant status. The cops have been able to do this for a long time.

So what about RFID is different? Maybe an average joe is going about his business and is a *passenger* in a car that’s traveling the speed limit, when his RFID is scanned and he’s flagged for having an arrest warrant. So the driver is stopped and booked by a traffic cop, when, without the RFID, he would have gone on his merry way. But does that person have a privacy right in *not* being arrested when an arrest warrant’s been issued for him? I don’t think so.

Right now, RFID seems conceived as a convenience for law enforcement, and even citizens (hassle-free border crossings anyone?), but it certainly has the potential for abuses.

Like I said, it’s too soon to be paranoid.

In the example above, the driver wouldn’t be booked, his passenger would be.

Driver 54, I love that wallet idea. You can sell it as a security device to prevent identity theft.

too late, done already:
http://www.difrwear.com/products.shtml

CTS: “let the paranoia begin.”
And so it has.

autonut: “I think it opens whole new chapter in legal debate on civil liberties.” Good call.

SS4LIFE: “Law enforcement will be using these to weed out illegals.” We need to **** or get off the pot. Do we want “illegals” here or not? If we didn’t, we’d have solved this problem back in ’86.

SwerveEarly: “This could help 1115 and Joe Dirt find their parents.” Good one.

Veda: “In any case, if you have the $ you shouldn’t be living in US right now.
I might retire to Tuscany, but if I’m working, it’ll be in Southern California.

SwerveEarly: Go Hillary! And take Rudy with ya!

Driven: CA has a reputation of being liberal, but that’s because the nuts in Berkeley and San Francisco run the Legislature. San Diego and northern California are more conservative. California is really kind of schizophrenic, which is why we have Michael Savage and a booming prison-industrial complex.

jumpoffit: O.J. did it for sure. Michael Jackson and Kobe, I’m skeptical there.

CTS: good idea, bringing up Ted Kennedy and Cheney

hateful83: “At any rate, I’d rather have it in my license than my arm.”
It’ll probably go into the right shoulder or the back of the neck.

vm54: “Problem is, what’s legal today may not be in a few years at the rate we’re going — once you’re “ID’d”, computers can combine all the info from a hundred databases to flesh out a complete profile on you. Big Brutha may not like your selection of high-fat foods, DVD rentals, charitable contributions and the websites you visit. All these techno-advances start off with good intentions, but every one of them can (and likely will) be used to reduce our liberties in the dubious quest for “Homeland Security.”

All they gotta do is say “national security.” And you’re in trouble.

Veda: “My definition of freedom is simply to be able to drive anywhere without speed limit.”
I’m against speed limits under most circumstances.

Scar: “And if you have passengers in the car with you, you can bet the cop can ask them for their IDs and check their warrant status.”
You don’t have an obligation to carry ID at all times. LAPD just likes to say that.