Comments on: General Motors considers acquiring Proton, Lotus

By: americanrevolution

americanrevolution — Mon, 22 Jan 2007 02:13:04 +0000

You’ve all danced around this in various ways and some have actually made some good points. Not surprising who they were. The polarizing nature of any GM discussion is baffling, but the insanity, and inanity, these discussion produce is entertaining as long as you don’t let the GM hate squad get to you.

Anyway, to my point. GM evidently sold a lot more cars in the US than Toyota last year, but Toyota is narrowing the gap internationally. So obviously Toyota is making key gains elsewhere. China, perhaps? Its the fastest growing car market on the planet. So imagine how convenient it would be for GM to have Proton as a subsidiary on site in Asia to combat Toyota’s market gains in China. Then it all makes sense. And for those concerned about the relationship between GM and Lotus, well, it existed before as 1c3d0g mentioned, and it worked out pretty darn well for all involved.

My two cents.

By: vibsr

vibsr — Fri, 19 Jan 2007 06:30:53 +0000

These Protons look like cars for ready to do MPG battles. They’re selling them in the UK. Look:

http://www.proton.co.uk/

By: 1c3d0g

1c3d0g — Fri, 19 Jan 2007 02:45:21 +0000

Hehe…just trying to give ya a heads up, that’s all. No bad things intended.

By: MY Si

MY Si — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 03:20:50 +0000

1c3d0g- thank you. i didnt know who they were. i know who Spyker is. and i know what a “Proton” is. lol

By: Bigfatguy

Bigfatguy — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 02:43:21 +0000

Silly asians. Even ripped their badge from a Holden.

By: mujician

mujician — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 01:41:43 +0000

O Great, Give GM#1 something to brag to his friends at school about. Next I’m going to see an aliance between GM and Lambo. LOL

By: 1c3d0g

1c3d0g — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 01:03:05 +0000

MY Si: as the article explains, Proton is a Malaysian auto maker, but I’ve seen them manufacture bikes as well, and IIRC, and that’s a big IF, I think I’ve read somewhere they have/had links with Spyker, a Dutch exotic car maker. A proton itself is just part of an atom, you have core with neutrons, protons and the free-flowing electrons. Basic science, really.

By: Kaptain75329

Kaptain75329 — Wed, 17 Jan 2007 20:09:22 +0000

…

By: Piablo

Piablo — Wed, 17 Jan 2007 15:04:02 +0000

Actually, it doesn’t quite work that way. “Junk” status has to do with their bond ratings. Consumers purchase bonds, which is essentially purchasing the company’s debt. A bond with a “junk” rating simply means it’s high risk. The value of the bond could rise or fall dramatically leaving the investor bretter off or broke. Now, in terms of scraping up the cash to make a purchase, GM has a hundred ways to do so very easily. Corporations are not exactly rated by TransUnion and Equifax and given a 3 digit number. If they want Proton, they will get Proton.

One quick question on this “Saabification” being mentioned… You mean to tell me, that there was actually a fan of Saab out there before GM bought it? Seriously??? Those atrocious, bubble topped, mechanical nightmares? Someone is really willing to admit they liked Saab prior to the buyout, just to spite GM?? You guys must reaaaallllly hate GM. I think it’s time to see a shrink. The only car mechanically worse than a Fiat or Jaguar back then was Saab. The old Saabs looked like Pontiac Azteks!! seriously, “Saabification” is a good thing.

By: youngm7

youngm7 — Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:43:38 +0000

its funny how many financial analysts visit this site to shed their professional opinion of GM’s monetary issues. Last I checked, their credit is junk, just like the average american individual, so if they come up with the funds to make this purchase, it’s going to be cold hard cash or stock. And large expenses are ok, so long as they would help in the turning around of the company, which this would figure to do, with a greater production capacity for the vehicles that need to be built to remain competitive. Even though GM is still losing money, it’s become progressively less, which means a profit will be showing itself in the near future.

By: MY Si

MY Si — Wed, 17 Jan 2007 04:45:53 +0000

im sorry, What the hell is a Proton?

By: bb_454

bb_454 — Wed, 17 Jan 2007 02:14:14 +0000

Forget about Leno, obviously this is much better!

By: global_lightning

global_lightning — Wed, 17 Jan 2007 01:43:08 +0000

Good call 1c3d0g, Lotus was heavily involved in developing the LT5 that powered the ZR1 Corvette.
As for the rest of this thread, I don’t think I’ve laughed this hard in a long time. Which is funnier: GM#1’s lunatic opinions or the suckers that fall for them? Answer: niether! It’s ‘Jaguar XJ-S’ raving about foreign car purchases! Keep going guys, I still have 3 hours before Jay Leno is on…

By: bb_454

bb_454 — Wed, 17 Jan 2007 01:32:36 +0000

Well if its the truth, than I guess their isn’t anything else to say. I didn’t know you could claim something to be the truth until you had hard evidence to back it up, not claiming it to be the truth because Toyota said their going to become number one this year. The way I see it, you can’t guarantee that GM will lose the top spot this year until it actually happens. I’m not saying it can’t happen, but Toyota sold around 1.3 million units this year in the US, where GM sold around 4.1 million. Thats quite a large difference, but I don’t know what either company did globally. I think that at the rate things are going Toyota will eventually topple GM, unless some unforeseeable event happens that Toyota just becomes undesirable and people actually look at facts according to GM’s products today not what they were making 20 years ago. I believe I read something around August 2005 that they were predicting that in eight months GM was going to be forced to file for chapter 11 bankruptcy, don’t recall where I read that, point is it hasn’t happened, nor does it look like it going to now. GM lost money this year, but compared with 2005 their in much better shape, I think a large reason they lost as much as they did this year was because of the buyouts? But let the flaming begin, I know its bound to happen on an anti-gm site. lol The Viper? Please! GM doesn’t need the help from Lotus to lay the smack down on that over rated heap! lol

By: 1c3d0g

1c3d0g — Wed, 17 Jan 2007 00:44:35 +0000

Hey, I know why they really want to do this. They’ll need Lotus to crank every last HP and Torque out of their Blue Devil V-8 Corvettes, since McLaren already tuned up the Viper’s V-10 to the hilt. It’s only a matter of time now before we’ll see who’s King of the road (my bet is on the Viper).

By: MC

MC — Wed, 17 Jan 2007 00:09:31 +0000

bb_454 I dont have a crystal ball but its the truth. I do agree with you in that toyota is overrated junk. I dont wanna see GM lose the top spot either at least not to toyota but at this rate its gonna happen eventually. Every since the fast and the furious emerged into theaters this is how the american automobile industry began to crumble. lol

By: TOZO

TOZO — Wed, 17 Jan 2007 00:03:50 +0000

GM’s don’t want Lotus; they want Proton: so they can kill it and eat it. GM is hunting for prey. They’ll rip off the Proton badge and rebadge those suckers with a Chevy or Opel marque. Daewoo all over again, but this time, there’s Lotus for dessert.

By: CTS DRIVER

CTS DRIVER — Wed, 17 Jan 2007 00:03:27 +0000

lotus helped gm make the the zr1 one of the greatest cars in history, as long as lotus keeps its identity then whats the problem? yeah rebadging lotus to gm models is not a good thing, or rebadgind gm to a lotus is even worse. dont interfere just sit back, fund lotus properly and watch the revenue flood in. but please dont start gluing the corvettes together, and yes please help make the cobalt compete with evo`s and sti`s.

By: The Stig

The Stig — Wed, 17 Jan 2007 00:00:18 +0000

@ Fatstrat,

Well said.

It would be good for both parties so long as the parent company doesn’t interfere.

By: Jaguar XJ-S

Jaguar XJ-S — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:56:09 +0000

I wish all the ricer lovers could see what they are doing to America. The auto industry is such a large portion of our economy that the entire thing could collapse if any one of the Big Three went under. Each and every time you purchase a foreign car of any kind, you send tens of thousands of dollars over seas. A wiser person would support the American auto industry and the millions of workers employed in them.

For all the naysayers among us, every one of you that bails on the American auto companies is putting another nail the their coffin. It is in our hands who is the number one auto maker in the world. If we all choose to buy ricers, we have turned our backs on two million American auto workers who depend on us for support. So lets say the Big Three go under in the next ten years. Where do we find jobs for these two million unemployed, able bodied workers?

Make the call. Do we want the the tradition that is American automobiles to continue growing out of Detroit among many other factories nationwide or do we want to export billions of dollars to Japan because we can’t find it within ourselves to support our very own nation?

By: Jazz

Jazz — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:36:36 +0000

You’re right meanpants but sometimes blatant stupidity (GMBlah) must be addressed.

bb_454 I think that everyone is afraid that the auto industry is following the trend that was the American TV industry. Like you said- Not sure I really care as I have at home 2 Samsungs and LXi (Sears brand) and a Magnavox. I know the Samsungs are Korean but have no idea on the other 2. Just an analogy.

By: bb_454

bb_454 — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:49:10 +0000

MC do you realize that my entire last comment was a joke? Secondly I have been hear about how Toyota is going to overtake GM anytime now for the past 5 years. Thirdly, is it really a big deal if GM loses the number one spot, I don’t want that to happen being that I do love GM, but it isn’t a like anything is going to change if it happens. Fourth I want to know where you got your crystal ball along with everyone else who can predict when GM is going to go out of business or file for bankruptcy. Granted their not in the best of shape, but I don’t think their going under. Oh I do wholeheartly believe that Toyota’s are junk, but that’s my opinion, everyone else on here is more than willing to share theirs.

By: MC

MC — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:39:49 +0000

bb_454 you do realize that by the end of this year that junk toyota you mentioned will have overtaken gm. Im not a fan of chevys but I have liked gm. But their reign in the automobile industry is about to come to an end. lol

By: bb_454

bb_454 — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:20:01 +0000

Damn straight GM#1, that’s exactly what I was thinking. Why does anyone even bother with the likes of BMW, Toyota’s, Honda’s etc. their all junk next to my Chevy! Your so insightful, could you write a bible? I want to worship your every word. Really I do! Don’t worry, one day the rest of the world will wake up and realize they mistake they made in not purchasing a GM product.

By: GMnumberone4ever

GMnumberone4ever — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:49:10 +0000

CTS-V with Lotus like handling would be a step backwards. About as step backwards as using Honda V6’s for the Saturn Vue when there was a perfectly capable 3.5 and 3.9 in the parts bin. Don’t Lotus’s have issues with bodies snapping apart from glue joints releasing? And the 4 cylinder under the hood is a Toyota motor, extremely unreliable, crude and rough. There is nothing that GM can gain from the purchase of Lotus.

Waste of money.

By: Fatstrat

Fatstrat — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:43:33 +0000

A company like GM having ‘financial issues’ is not that same as many of you 12 year old lame brains trying to decide if you should splurge for the double whopper or not.
Buying into manufacturing capacity/capability and handling technology like lotus can be an outstanding feather in any companies cap. You keep wanting GM to improve their quality etc… well, this seems like it could prove very beneficial to many of its models…
CTS-V with handling by Lotus anyone?
Get beyond the Jr. High antics and think critically for a change.

By: meanpants555

meanpants555 — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:42:21 +0000

Why do you all feed GMnumberone4ever? Just ignore him/her and they will eventually whither away.

By: Jazz

Jazz — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:02:44 +0000

GM#1blah – you mean the more broken , unpopular and failing brands like Pontiac and Buick? Come on, every one here knoews that Wagoner all but said that he considered getting rid of one of the aforementioned brands. Plus GM bought saab to add to the bottom line you’re an idiot if you think that not spending money on its development is a good thing.

So, how much does GM pay you to be a buzz promoter? You’re tactics are Marketing 101.

By: GMnumberone4ever

GMnumberone4ever — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:47:24 +0000

Hopefully GM influence can improve Lotus quality and reliability. Although, I fear there is much work to do to bring Lotus up to GM’s strict standards.

And the only reason Saab hasn’t lived up to its stellar reputation is Bob Lutz knows that it is a foreign brand and the capital used to fund that project needs to be diverted to more important brands, more profitable, more successful brands like Pontiac and Buick. If GM is to knock Toyota, Ford, and the rest of the world out of business alltogether, then they need to concentrate on core successful brands, not foreign duds.

By: Me

Me — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:27:02 +0000

I think GM wants the Tesla technology. j/k

By: devilsadvocate

devilsadvocate — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:58:59 +0000

“GM is gonna ruin lotus with SS badges.”

The SS badges are hallowed and reserved only for GM’s elite vehicles like the Silverado SS and the TrailBlazer SS. No plastic roadsters with Jap engines could ever earn such a prestige.

By: A4

A4 — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:56:57 +0000

hey now, thats what everyone said when Ford got their hands on Aston Martin… and theyre the best theyve ever been.

By: Eion

Eion — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:51:05 +0000

“With all the money and success that GM has been producing lately”
Doesn’t matter how much money you’re producing, if you’re spending more money than that. You can make a million dollars a year, but if you’re spending twice that then you’re still broke. So, do we know how much money did GM lose last year? Last numbers I saw were losses of $115 million in the three months up to September 2006 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6239443.stm).
Oh, and how many jobs have GM had to shed? How many plants have they had to close? (Seems like having to reduce production capacity isn’t symptomatic of success, to me at least).

Sorry, I know I shouldn’t feed the troll.

I don’t know about Proton, but being bought up would not be good for Lotus if GM then Saabified it. It would be much better for them to find a white knight (if they need it), like TVR did.

By: eam3

eam3 — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:44:31 +0000

I don’t give a crap who buys Lotus as long as the money is there and it allows the development of a new Esprit.

By: Egbert Souse

Egbert Souse — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:42:49 +0000

Oooooohhhh boy. Ooooohhh boy.