Good to see some manufacturers making headway into fuel cells like Honda, GM, Ford and Toyota.

I think that the environmentalist crowd is going to fall headfirst into this. It’s so easy to fool those shortsighted and ignorant types. This emits water vapor. If global warming is real then water vapor would be the last thing an ecotarian should want in the atmosphere. Water vapor comprises 95% (I think) of all greenhouse gasses. Once again, I’m caught complaining about something that’s going to make me money.

Great program, GM.

We got any greenies here who can tell us if fuel-cell is the answer or not?

and what’s going on with the FCX right now?

Bryce—I’m no scientist, but I don’t think that if every car on the face of the planet were suddenly converted to a fuel cell, that there’d be any negative effect on the ecology, at least not from the water vapor. Remember—there is a finite amount of water on the planet. Its form and location changes endlessly, but we never lose, or create, water. If water is coming out of the tailpipe of our cars from the processes within the fuel cell, then it started out as water in some other time and place.

What I’m not convinced about is the impact on the environment of creating the hydrogen. I think I’ve read that creating hydrogen vapor in a form that cars can use uses more energy than it returns. That sounds like a net negative to me—and therefore not a sound solution.

At the moment, I still think that diesel powered, plug-in hybrids are the answer. I suspect that if that became dominant over the next few years, that advances in battery technology and electric motor efficiency would come pretty quickly.

I think GM is on the right track with their Volt concept, which claims to be able to 40 miles on electric power alone. As they say, that’s enough to get most Americans to work and back without burning ANY gasoline. That’s pretty impressive if you think about it.

Anybody else got any other thoughts?

Scott,
You’re forgetting that although right now it MIGHT (I don’t have any figures in front of me) take more energy to produce hydrogen than the total power it creates the beauty of technology and wide-spread development is that when many people start working together they generally improve things. That includes not only the range of Hydrogen, but the production process as well. In 5 years Hydrogen/Electric hybrid powered cars could be the wave of the future with every major automobile company scrambling to make one.

I don’t proclaim to know what form of alternative energy is the best, but I’d rather see companies explore every possible venue than sit on their collective asses doing nothing. I’m glad to see GM working on not only hydrogen power, but electric power, diesel power, and ethanol power. The knowledge gained will only do us (the consumer) good.

Where do i sign up? It’s free, right?

Great! Now you need to market the xxxx out of this if you want people to know about it and the fact that you’re not some gas-guzzler producing company.

KennyW—I totally agree with you. If GM—or anyone else— can figure out how to make hydrogen work, I’m all for it. The thought of producing only water vapor and a little heat while driving is pretty provocative, isn’t it?

I get the feeling though that the process, and the infrastructure to support wide-spread hydrogen use in cars, is still quite a ways off. I could be wrong though; I hope I am. In the mean time, I still think that GM has the right idea with the Volt, which is basically an electric car that can use any of a number of different fuels/engines (including diesels and fuel cells) to recharge its batteries.

There are already systems, albiet still in testing, that will produce hydrogen in a garage, plugged into an electrical outlet (ignore where the electricity comes from, that’s another matter).

The same goes for ethanol as conservative production figures goes; it depends on the method of creating the fuel. Ethanol currently uses alot more energy to be refined than it creates- not only that, but even conservative figures seem to point at total costs being over gasoline. It drives the price of feed up too, albeit those can be decidedly controversial.
For the time being though, it’s great to see auto manufacturers coming out with vehicles that will run on such fuels- Volvo, Ford, GMC, Saab and Chevrolet are just a few manufacturers that I’ve seen advertising and marketing these technologies through advertising, such as Toyota and Honda have done for many years now.

A funny joke my friend brang up recently was one day people will be complaining the output of water will make the world “wetter” since it will evaporate quicker. I could see enviromentalists protesting against that right now, regardless of how ridiculous and untrue the claim may be!

Scott – the technology is ready. Ford has developed it, so has GM, so has honda and BMW. hydrogen vehicles can be put on the market TOMORROW, but there just arent enough hydrogen stations to make it a technology worth considering. No automaker can build these fuel stations by themselves, the cars are done…we just need widespread investment in hydrogen-producing companies, hydrogen distribution companies, and all the rest that are needed for a would be hydrogen economy. If people were really concerned with the environment, they should be supporting hydrogen-related companies, fuel station builders, ect…..not gas-powered hybrids. I am just so sick of people making the argument that they are saving the planet by driving a hybrid, its ridiculous.

Fuel cells are an advance step foward in vehicles, but they need to go further in development to make them more efficient, and they need to find a source of hydrogen that’s readily available. Until then, diesel hybrids are the answer for now

Cool!! i like GM

Mclaren – hydrogen is the most abundant element in our universe. It is by all measures unlimited. There is no need to make a hydrogen powered vehicle more efficient. All that’s important with hydrogen is that someone perfects a VERY cheap way to produce it. The production of, especially, liquid hydrogen is not cheap. Hydrogen pretty much all around you right now, so even if cars got 10 miles for a gallon of liquid hydrogen that would not matter because we have a limitless supply and we are not burning gasoline therefore not polluting the planet by emitting trash into the air therefore all the greenies will be happy and they will have to go and find something else to bitch about. I do think diesel hybrids are good for right now, much better than gasoline powered xxxx from Toy

bryce you are a xxxxing moron, thats all i can say.

Good thing their self insured. Still not one insurance company that will cover this technology. Get a copy of “the Hydrogen Hype” and enjoy how our tax dollars are being spent on a technology that will never make it into the service department of a car dealership. Bottom line, maybe in 20 years they will pass enough new laws to indemnify the car companies, refueling stations, and service centers to be able to put cars with the most reactive element on the periodic table on the street for “joe Blow”. Compressed natural gas cars, and battery electrics have a more promising future than a car that will have to be certified to drive annually…because of liability. I am all excited, but there are more lawyers in law school today than are practicing….accidents happen…duh.

Meekin111 – Moron? It’s the lefty scientists that are running around saying water vapor is causing global warming. People like you simply hate hearing others mock your global warming religion.

Here’s a great example why climate change and catastrophic global warming is a scam.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,501145,00.html

So now they’re attacking moose. The greenie whackos are now attacking moose. I hope everyone of these nuts get run over by a coal burning train. At this point, I could really give a **** about any ‘alternative’ fuel sources including these fuel cells. In terms of environmentalism, nothing will ever be enough for the whackos.

I don’t have PhD in physics or chemistry and with little that I know I may not be right. But based on college courses I did take the whole hydrogen debacle is political crap not a science. Here we go: we start with H2O and electricity to extract H out of water. We use H to generate electricity(!) to power electric motor and in process create water as a byproduct. If there are no losses at all then we may end up with same amount of electricity and water, but on what planet?

save the whales!

I know that Hydrogen is abundant, Commodore, but like you said, getting it is the problem. The reason I said to make it more efficient is to make use of what limited liquid Hydrogen is produced, Therefore making it last longer before they can make Hydrogen cheaply and available.

There is no one perfect technology right now (Hybrid, Diesel, Electric, Fuel cell, etc.), compromises have to be made.

Electric vehicles are more “efficient” than fuel cell vehicles, but for some people range is a requirement. A vehicle like the VOLT solves the range issue, but it still needs an engine to charge the batteries. A hydrogen fuel cell is the “best” environmental option for an engine to supplement the batteries.

Though it is inefficient to produce hydrogen, what if we invested in nuclear and wind energy. Then, the electricity were generating isn’t harming the enviroment, and neither are our cars. I know it would be expensive, But can we put a price on our planets future?