Awesome. German analysts rule.

Not surprised. The Europeans are all about heritage.

Amen. Finally somebody has hit the nail on the head.

European analysts choose European heritage over Asian/US brands? Get out. I suppose you’re going to say next that Europeans favor their own cuisine as well.

Seems a little unreasonable to expect heritage from a 15 year-old company.

I don’t care what some monkey in Germany says about heritage and glorious history, blah, blah, blah.

When a friend’s BMW 3-series had a leaking tail light assembly and filled with water, shorting and blowing the bulb … when another friend with another BMW 3-series had to change his control arm bushings within two years of owning the car (and he wasn’t racing it or abusing it) …

These things should NOT be happening on a $50k+ (Cdn) car. All the history in the world means nothing when you can’t get the basics right.

Infiniti will do well.

All that “heritage” crap is just a scapegoat for saying Lexus cars are boring long distance cruisers, designed for American tastes.
Infinitis are sporty, fashionably styled with hard suspensions and good performance, which will be suitable for European tastes.

Sounds like euros defending euros just like the detroit free press criticizing japan’s cars and defending america’s cars…..Its called nationalism and pride, italians love italian cars, germans love german cars, and clarkson loves british cars. Americans just like whatever fancies them for the momement.

amen to number 11 – everybody hags on everybody elses cars and trys to defend there own – what i dont understand is why ford of europe can be so much different and better than it is here. i love ford of europe cars because they’re appealing not just because its a ford. id take a mondeo over a fusion anyday.

I also think Infiniti will do better than most think. And assuming this new crop of redos addresses the less-than-class-leading interiors, it should be interesting to watch.

oh well i’d much rather have a volvo then a rolls-royce

Heritage…my ass, more like xenophobia. Perhaps Americans should take pride in our willingness to buy products based on perceived quality or maybe its just our cars…SUCK.

Lexus, Infiniti and Acura all received similar welcomes when they showed up in the US. Trying to convince anyone that they should part with their 50k is a difficult sell, and reputation is a huge part of that. A couple years of compelling products can change a lot of minds. People are xenophobic, sure, but most of them aren’t idiots.

I never wrote that book, but I think it is , at least in a general way, correct with the result. Just look at all these “gold’ L,A’s at Lexus and Acuras and so on. Older Cadillacs had that too. It tells you a lot about the taste of these drivers. What is the best selling Lexus sedan in the US? The FWD Camry derivat ES (not on sale outside the US, of course). But we still think we are so clever here and pay Honda big extra money for the Euro Accord named Acura here. So of course we are so smart and of course have to critisize the germans, BMW the most because they are selling so well (worldwide not just here). First the new design, but too bad they are selling even better and the others folllow… what is next, oh yes of course they break down, also too bad as that is not true. Look at the new JD Power ( oh BMW is down, but why – design flaws, just for defects 3rd place, and that with over 1 Million cars and an endless option list, which makes it difficult to get a good result of course). I am just looking what is coming next (maybe bad color choices for german cars…), and I am not even driving something from germany…

Have a drink and relax, bud.

I am basing my view on experience, not fantasy. If you love BMW (and ignore its faults), that’s your prerogative.

I, however, will not spend 50k+ on a BMW having had these experiences. I won’t even get into the issue of the horrid styling.

I am sensing a lot of anger here.

Heads up, Stu. American cars are built in Detroit suburbs, of which nearly all are close to or are at least 90% White.

Who is about to become the world’s largest automaker? Who owns Lexus? Lexus came from nowhere and look where they are in the United States today. I know The U.S. is different than Europe, but the Big Three here in the states had a stranglehold on the car industry here for a long time too. But bad quality ultimtely bit them in the butt and now Toyota/Lexus is poised to take over. Let’s look at Europe right now. BMW and Mercedes quality is not good. More and more people are experiencing Lexus quality and swearing they will never go back to problem makes like BMW and Mercedes, especially at their higher price points. Lexus will learn how to make more inspiring products. They are working on that now with the new IS 250/350. Time will will see them win out. People don’t have patience in their lives for faulty machinery.

What’s the fuzz all about. Lexus isn’t a bad car, but surely not great. It only turns up on top in the quality surveys because not many are sold (world wide). Only Mercedes is able to set new standards. What’s in the new S will be used all over standard cars in ten years, ever seen an American brand doing that?
Anyone can see that around the globe people fancy German cars best, and surely not American cars. But hey, how should the American people know this, most of them don’t carry a passport so how should they notice that in Europe, Africa or Asia almost no one drives an American car (some more Chevies are seen now, but only because they renamed aKorean car).

Guys, Lexus is a good car for people who like Mercedes. That’s it that’s all.
Now, the problem is, the S class is, THE S CLASS. A class got a problem? I don’t care. B, C, who cares, I am getting the S class!! No link whatsoever in the consumer’s mind.
For smaller cars, you got so many choices from AUdi, BMW, Volvo or Alfa, with great finishing, Laxus will have some difficulty to prove it has an edge over its competitors.
So basically, switching from a European car to a Lexus is an uphill psychological battle that is difficult to win.
In the US, the market openings were potentially huge to are amercan manufacturer’s ****ty car finishing.

Lexus is dull looking and boring to drive. If they spent less time copying and more time try to be unique, their sales wouldn’t have been so bad full stop. Infiniti will do even worser as it is prity much the same as lexus

I guess when you live in a small continent, you don’t need a reliable car to take you very far.

There is no place for racism on his site. If you feel you must spew thouroughly unintelligent racist crap go to your own inbred, white supremacist, KKK boards.

Don’t you just love how LLN leaves out the other arguments and leaves the “juicy” parts for us to comment about?!?!?! (Yes, I know the article’s link is there)

THIS IS SO OBVIOUS!!!

Phillip Rosengarten and Christopher Stuermer’s dismissive behavior of Lexus (and other up and coming brands) is just their (and other European’s) pathetic way of not trying to portray their fear of Toyota/Lexus overtaking Europe, just like what they have done in the US, and just like what they’ve done with the world. This sounds very familiar to the “Big 3″ idealogy decades ago. Look where THEY are now. The Europeans are going to end up just like “the Big 3″ if they keep up this mentality that their “**** don’t stink”. Look at Audi, BMW, and Mercedes before Lexus. Look at them now…A LOT better. It was Lexus who FORCED them to build better cars. For Lexus, Europe won’t come as easy as it did in the US, but we all know it is inevitable. However, what is the REAL FEAR??? Once Lexus is successful, it will pave the way for other brands (just like the US). You can obviously see this FEAR in Rosengarten and Stuermer’s denial and behavior.

Lexus is mass-market “luxury” for the masses. It also has dull styling, the type that middle America eats up. Notice how the “Accord” in the US is some ugly bland car, and everywhere else it’s what we call the Acura TSX. Have you seen the US version of the Civic coupe, and compared it to the Euro/global version? The global version is nearly identical to the concept car (down to the triangular exhaust pipes), and the American version is some blandified crappier version.

Lexus is the Walmartization of luxury cars. It offers most of what Mercedes offers (on the surface, at least), but at a fraction of the price. Cheap, mass-market, and without any soul.

Have you seen their latest commercials? “Can you engineer desire?” No, of course not! Especially not for that ugly-ass, godawful ES, which is probably one of the least desirable cars on the road.

Everyone’s a Lexus expert. Maybe you guys could make money consulting.

Seriously, how many of you self-styled Lexus experts has EVER driven a Lexus? (”That’s not the point, dude… I know all about Lexus. It’s just a Camry with leatler…”)

Do you guys realize many of you are spouting off opinions about Lexus written by auto journalists in the 90’s? I seriously doubt in your hatred of all things Lexus that you have actually graced the doorway of a Lexus dealership recently. You guys come across as shills for whatever auto journalist you read in Car and Driver,about the 1997 LS model. Forget the new GS. Forget the new IS. About all you can do is look at a jpeg of an ES and post your same useless drivel… “it’s an ugly ass car… blah blah.”

Some of you guys should stay away from talking about Lexus because you sincerely don’t know what in the hell you’re talking about. Quit telling us how it’s a mass market luxury Walmart car. What in the hell do you know about it? Is a $65K GX a mass-market SUV? Do you realize how stupid you sound? Why don’t you stay talking about a car you actually drive and know something about?

Middle-america… blah blah. You guys are the exact snobs than you think Lexus drivers are. Do you see Lexus drivers in here pissing on other brands? Go drive a Lexus and at least back up your sophomoric Thomas Friedman-like sermonizing with a bit of experience. But of course, you won’t do that. Because then you couldn’t be the big man in here posting your Lexus cliches and sounding like you know something.

Thanks #35. BTW….I have owned 2 Lexus (SC400, GS430).

I’m really tired of the $40k Camry/Lexus comments. I know they have no clue and are just bashing, but it’s annoying nonetheless. If what they say is true, how do they like the $40k Golf/Audi. What about an $80k Toureg/Cayenne? C’mon folks, it’s called platform sharing and it only makes sense due to costs. The ES350 is not a rebadged Camry. They are built on the same platform.

Actually, I’ve read the new ES shares with the $40K Avalon, not the Camry–which in itself has moved up in the world. Though, to your point, the comparison is nil.

When BMW introduced the new 7 in 2002 I was fortunate enough to attend a driving event similar to an autocross where we had the chance to compare the LS430, MB S430 (non-sport) and the 745i. While the Lexus could not handle the abuse around the tight road course the way the S430 did (the BMW was in another league altogether – extremely capable and agile), it did shine in the area that the majority of buyers in that segment care about: pampering the driver. The LS430 was unbelievably quiet, comfortable, smooth and relaxing to drive. So it didn’t drive like a sports car, so what? The target buyer for the car gets exactly what he wants in a luxury car – with excellent reliability and dealer service to boot.

Josh’s white panties are showing under his Klan robes.

Gotta love that German arrogance. A sound thrashing in 2 World Wars and it’s still around!

But seriously, you’d think they would learn from the American experience that underestimating the Japanese automakers is the worst mistake they can make.

Time will tell.

Heritage is just another way of saying identity. BMW, Mercedes, etc have solid identities. One buys a BMW for diffferent reasons than one buys a Volvo. In general the Japanese and American brands lack this strong historically grounded purpose. Why would you buy an Infinity? Give me one damn good reason without adding “for the money�. Lexus has reliability, but Americans are obsessed with that. Europeans know better. Life moves quickly, exercise some passion.

Oh, and I would definitely drive a Lexus, but I can’t imagine weighing all the options and then deciding on a Lexus. I’d rather have fun in an Alfa and let it break occasionally than have a less than thrilling IS 350 that runs and runs and runs….

#42 Everyone wants to have fun but Americans live in credits and leasing which means they often buy something beyond their means. They simply can’t afford the additional costly maintenance. As for me, though I can drive any car I’d like including a SLR or Murcielago, a car that breaks more often means it’s an inferior product, period. I simply don’t like getting ripped off. Heritage, price, etc means nothing more than a way to show off.

Although i drive an infiniti, i understand the premise of these arguments in a certain way. i equate premium (european) to innovation and luxury (the rest of the world) to premium-flattery..luxury brands do imitate those in the leagues above. when mercedes reveals a new feature (say the infrared lighting in the new S) in about 4 years time, the technology will show up in japanese cars. styling cues generally drift down from premium brands as well. it would be stupid to not concede that…it goes for architecture, clothing, etc…there’s nothing wrong with admitting that europeans are ahead of the game in terms of design and innovation…

Lexus buyers are wanna-be luxury consumers with no taste. However, they are being wise by buying something which is reliable, instead of American built cars.

#44, if you’ve ever been to the Tokyo Auto Show, you’d say follow instead of imitate. Virtually all technologies have been considered by the techno freaks Japanese but what’s the point of adding more complication to a package when they don’t have to due to public ignorance. Back in the 80’s I’d agree though…

I have never heard of such a thing. A brand not native to Europe is trying to sell in Europe? Over hear in America, dying grandparents buy Lexus’ and Lexus barely gets by…and over there dying grandparents have died already. And considering that the new ES or is it the new Camry, no I think it’s the ES…Camry?…yea, well whatever the “Toyota Group” seems to call that 4-wheeled vehicle with an L on the front, has failed already in the U.S. Now, instead of quoting “pitiful” from ze germanz, just say it right here in the U.S. Toyota has ruined their luxury autos…or should I say the brand they named Lexus to cover up mistakes.

Lexus sells as much as Audi, BMW and 20% Mercedes cars combined in the US, the largest market in the woirld where the competition is fair and German protectionist practices don’t work.
Mercedes class A was picked the worst car sold in UK out of 140 cars. A Los Angeles dealer is suing Mercedes as it breaks down every ten blocks.
Consumer Report which sets the gold standard picked 4 Honda cars and no German car amongst the 10 best cars sold in US.
Out of 25 Audi, BMW and Mercedes models sold in US 19 are not recomended by Consumer Report because of poor reliability record. So much for German “quality”.
The only think you guys have in favour of German cars is a propaganda machine in the fine tradition of Dr. Goebbels.

ANONYMOUS,

LEARN HOW TO SPELL YOU DIP****!

HEIL HERR ROSENGARTEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HEIL HERR STUERMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DEUTSCHLAND UEBER ALLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! UNSERE PRACHTVOLLE GESICHTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PREISEN SIE DAS VATERLAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ugh. What arrogance. To hell with “European innovations.” That doesn’t mean anything anymore. Have you seen all the NEW technology packed into the upcoming LS class?

Their “secret of success” is simply that they’ve been around longer. Bottom line. And what a CRAPPY premise. My family loves our Volvo (one of Herr Rosengarten’s “premium” brands), but MEIN GOTT, Europeans are arrogant and stupid.

It’s this kind of mentality that has cause Mercedes’ quality to become laugable over recent years. I REFUSE to ignore the faults of a car if I’m looking to buy. That being said, a Lexus, for now, would be my choice. As for the Europeans, I smell xenophobia and denial.

can’t understand you americans talking about german cars and realibility, in europe, middle east and asia( yes japan} ever noticed how many german (old ones at that 20+ years are around)yes the japanese do make good reliable cars, but to say they never break down or have any faults is pure rubbish, no car is perfect,and there are more german brands of bmw, merc, audi sold worlwide than lexus,and ever notice how nobody ever mentions the british brands of austin martin, bentley etc,or the italian brand of ferrari etc and mercedes problems began when a american company got involved…oh and germany lost 2 world wars, no other country could have lasted as long against usa, russia, britain etc on its own, lets not forget they invented modern warfare”blitskreig” the forunner of the modern tank, submarine, jetfighter,rocket, modern well trained troops and generals, who if they had 1/2 the resoruces of the usa during ww2, they would have wiped the rest of the world of the face of the earth,but then again they are just masters of propaganda, no engineering skill whatsoever!!!!!!!!

BMW is an acronym for Big Money Wasted! My 2006 X5 experienced sudden acceleration. As I was pulling into my garage, the car jumped forward about 5 feet causing me to hit the wall. When I told BMW about this, they were very hands off. They didn’t want to take responsibility. They’re stance of non-responsibility is embarrasing for the company. Many friends told me that they’re cachet of quality was long gone, but I’ve always wanted a BMW. Their stories of multiple trips to the dealer for repair didn’t deter me from buying one. My next car is definitely going to be a Lexus. I’ve already did some research on hybrids and it looks like the new LS will have a “full” hybrid version with a SULEV rating. In response, Mercedes is trying to draw up a “mild” hybrid while BMW will take 4 YEARS to develop a hybrid. Talk about old technology. German automobiles are at the cutting edge of 20th century technology…