“They’re good guys really trying hard to run those companies. I have nothing bad to say about them.”
I’m reliefed.

Blaim it on todays super reliable cars that continue to run, mix that with fear, and a poor economy and people simply hold on to what eva car they have, and wait out the storm and stop buying new thats exactly whats happenin’. even if you try to buy a new car the banks are still holding back and not lending full force, because they are afraid of the risks…well sumthin has got to give ! It dosent help that Bush helped ship thousands of blue collar jobs overseas and let foreigners come here and buy, and build on our soils for pennies on the dollar LLN 2 out of every 3 of your articles have been about the failing auto industry GM,Chrysler this is the kind of fear Im speaking of.

Current management is inheriting a lot of bad cards to play
I know Obama really wants the companies to succeed
A second handout can’t be justified
If they are going to sink, or swim, it’s on them now.
There are only several hundred issues that need governemnt funding first
DrFill

Go ahead and give them the money. Give them as much as they need. The Big 3 helped us win WWII, now it is our turn to repay our debt to them. We must support the backbone of America. It’s not just a matter of jobs, it’s a matter of national security as well.

OK. And this is news why?

Dr Fill, current management? Wagoner has been CEO since 2000 and prior to that he was the CFO. He had 9 years to fix….what he broke himself in the first place.

The problem I see is that there are some systematic corporate failures in the GM, Chrysler (and less apparently in Ford). Can someone explain why these 3 companies initially asked for ~$25 billion assistance to “fix” their problems (which eventually the previous administration granted a $18 billions to GM & Chrysler in December). Suddenly after the first few rounds of these loan payments, there is now a case for the need of more financial aids. How can the marketing departments in GM & Chrysler failed to model their basic survival financial needs? How and when will these endless round of financial aid packages end? The government is already in debt FOUR TIMES its annual fiscal budget spending.

Secondly, does UAW live in the same planet as the rest of us? If UAW continue to fight every inch of the way to get a “better” deals with GM & Chrysler, these companies will “die”.

In an industry where it takes roughly 4 years from conception to realization before a new product is available to the public just what exactly did they expect was going to happen over 4 months? Both companies have made progress, but it’s far too early in the game to be worried about setting deadlines.

What about Ford? Keep it up Blue Oval!

You CANNOT give AIG nearly 200 billion for producing nothing but bad bets and not give a fraction of that to help companies that produce something.

GM is a juggernaut whose time has ended, period. Chrysler is run by rabid dogs who only know how to screw people. There is no need to drag this on any longer...the party is over. The bad argument of helping the financial industry is just as bad for the auto industry. Didn’t we learn from the financial bailout, or do we have to repeat that failure a second time with the auto industry? It’s only money taxpayers money. Tax evasion is looking better and better each day as an American citizen at the rate our government is throwing good money after bad!

I agree with Impulsive and BuyUSA. All of the growth in the American economy in the last decade was false – it was paper growth. America needs to grow with real tangible products. The domestic auto industry did get us through WWII. It is a matter of national security to invest in our production facilities. Do you really think Japanese owned Honda and Toyota would help build tanks and ammunition for America?

Good grief, dust-off the old war propaganda: A tank in every driveway, and a nuclear device in each kitchen.
.
Yeah, right that will make America strong? Put the money into education, now. Pay our dues versus trying to sell them off to other countries and REALLY build a strong America. The automotive has never, and will never save America.

Impulsive-

Exactly.

j-dubb’s-

It is too easy to blame C.E.O.’s or Bush for off-shoring jobs. In reality, neither of them had that big of an involvement in the process. Heck, Bush was Mr.-cut-corporate-taxes-to-keep-jobs-here!!! As for corporate officers, I’m not sure how much you understand about corporate law, but it makes it very hard to blame those very officers. Under corporate law, stockholders can (and do) sue companies and officers for NOT off-shoring jobs. Why? How can they do this? Let me sum it up for you: The courts point out that the very definition of corporations insists that their sole purpose is to make money for investors. Ergo, if corporate officers don’t off-shore jobs, despite the money it could save/make, then they could be held liable to investors for breach of their fiduciary duty.

So who do we have to blame for the off-shoring of jobs? OURSELVES! As stockholders we demand unrealistic profits. As consumers we demand ever cheaper goods that can only be made overseas. As consumers we act as though we have a RIGHT to a ridiculous amount of goods. Guess what? Your grandparents got by with a lot less. Look at the cars that are coming out. Almost every vehicle is has less problems than top performers of just a decade ago. The amenities in the cheapest of cars? RIDICULOUS. Does it not cross anyone’s mind that cars cost a significantly less proportion of our salaries today than in yesteryear? Cars are barely a major purchase anymore. WE demand so much and the only way to deliver is for companies to offshore and the government to take on ridiculous amounts of debt. Heck, even Republicans were laughing at Ron Paul in the last presidential election and he was one of the few who was talking about cutting spending and being more realistic. Even Republicans now believe in federal funding of education (despite the fact that the more we have spent-the less well students have performed). The point of this rant? Stop the nonsense about off-shoring. Stop pretending you haven’t gone to Walmart, or Target, or Borders, etc. and picked up an item and STILL said “geez, that’s too expensive!”

Hey Lariat-

You’re generally insightful, but its entitlement programs, that conservatives used to believe included things like education, that don’t pay off. Investing in your strategic industries? That DOES pay off and the WWII argument is not stale unless you honestly believe there will never be a major war demanding mobilization again. And while most of our founders are easily quoted as deriding what would be called entitlements, they almost all universally accepted the government has a role in part-funding of nascent and weak American industries.

Lionwithoutpride you’re so right about the consumers responsibilities…

johnnycanuck: Your comment is 100% valid. Respect your opinion & stature in this forum. Here is my feedback. Other companies like IBM, Cisco, Dow Chemical have big projects too that last a year or more from planning, market research, prototyping to product delivery. Marketing departments hire expensive MBAs; assisted by their financial gurus to build marketing and finance model to take these engineering development framework into account. And YES they can forecast financial well being of the company even though the big 3 were given a few weeks to deliver their financial plan in December. The reason is all big companies keep their financial models up-to-date at all time. The big 3 took a couple of weeks to package (water down) their business models so that the Congress can digest. You are talking about engineering aspect; I am talking about corporate fiscal responsibility from the finance forecast aspect.

ninetysixvert: 2 years ago, Ford was the laughing stalk of the industry. They mortgaged off everything, selling off everything in order to finance a huge loan from private equity firms. In hind sight, Ford was just plain lucky – get what they want in fair market value. I am a Ford man myself – I don’t feel comfortable with Ford current financial situation at all.

Impulsive: AIG is indeed “too big to fail”. I wish it is not true but it is. Most of the home mortgage insurances end up on their desks. Banks rely on these insurance to prevent defaults. If AIG goes down, all banks (big or small) will follow, then who are next? — You and me!

This is an auto forum, I diverted too much attention to economic & social issues. Sorry. I sign off.

my only question is who didnt see this coming?
gm needs to downsize to a massive extent
chrysler needs to be sold to the highest bidder (american or not) because there is potential in it. just not with these fools running it. aside from the challenger and ram there is no product i would even consider buying from them. they are all either too boring or lacking in interior quality for me.

There has been no change in the executive management of the these companies, therefor, no real progress has been made; those who created the problems are not the ones to resolve them. These industries—as they stand—are not America’s future.

@LLLL3 , “Put the money into education, now.” that’s a big negatory , educated people are more difficult to control, any government knows that

..GM….pathetic…So when will this begging end? let them die. no other car company deserves it more than GM. being number 1 and decades of crap products? = eventual bankruptcy

Chrysler…situation. after a decade of K-Car crap cars, they went on to actually make decent cars in the 90’s (with crap transmission though) but got sold and drained of funds. =gang raped and robbed.

Ford…good for you guys.

Face it ‘Patriots’ Big Business America screwed Domestics who are now screwing American Tax payers. Its frustrating to know that i’m paying for some slackers jobs, while they continue to outsource jobs. you guys can continue your “Patriotic facade” now, but here’s my advice…

Buy Toyota (or Honda) because there cars last longer and have better resale value.

Where’s the payoff?

Got the letter from my bank Yesterday saying they’ve abandoned their interest in my car.

I now don’t owe anybody anything!

j-dubb: “Blaim it on todays super reliable cars that continue to run, mix that with fear, and a poor economy and people simply hold on to what eva car they have, and wait out the storm and stop buying new thats exactly whats happenin’.”

I think you understand what’s going on.

BuyUSA: “Go ahead and give them the money.”
Ok, but at what point does it stop? We need to say, “How much to kill all of your problems forever?” Then, sink or swim.

“It’s a matter of national security as well.” Could be, yes.

Sorcerer: GM can’t afford its existing labor force structure.

Impulsive: “You CANNOT give AIG nearly 200 billion for producing nothing but bad bets and not give a fraction of that to help companies that produce something.”

You have a point.

gta89mike: “Do you really think Japanese owned Honda and Toyota would help build tanks and ammunition for America?” I hope we don’t have to find out.

Lionwithoutpride: good financial stuff.

No More Oil For Toyota: “Buy Toyota (or Honda) because there (sic) cars last longer.”

That hasn’t been my experience

” and have better resale value.”
TO WHOM?

@jackjimturkey..to whom? the few bad owner experiences with Toyota or Honda (which is rare) doesnt come close to the millions through decades of bad experiences with owning a GM, Ford or Chrysler. thats who.

 Buy Toyota or Honda because the product is superior 

jackjumturkey — We as Americans have an obligation to keep the Big 3 strong and running at full steam. If they go under, what are we going to do when China or Russia decides to drop that impending bombshell on us? I don’t want to see that day come. We all know the Big 3 has some internal kinks they need to work out, but their biggest problem comes from the false public perception of their vehicles quality, which has greatly improved in the last 10 years.

NMOFT — What’s really pathetic is someone that comes on this forum and switches screen names to start blithering his seething hatred for America and the auto industry. Why don’t you get a one-way ticket to the middle east so you can blabber to Johnny Jihad just how much you hate American cars. Or better yet, why don’t you do us all a favor and drive your Toyota of a cliff?

NMOFT – you still don’t have it right. It is their, not there or they’re.

I like how they say it in St Louis
They say “Thur”
As in “it’s over Thur”
DrFill

NMOFT,

you just preach the same **** all the time, buy foreign…….Im starting to think you dont like domestic cars,

@BuyUSA, All China needs to do is simply pull the financial notes that the US owes, and never drop one bomb, to take out America; Russia is too busy doing other things around the world. If GM or Chrysler go under there will be other companies immediately stepping-in to handle any military vehicle requirements who will make a better product while creating new jobs. Fear mongering got us how many trillion dollars in debt (and we haven’t even begun to payoff the existing war debt)? Your logic to save dinosaurs, and more so depend so heavily on them, is so out-of-touch with today’s world.

@BuyUSA seriously lol same screen name.. but, I’d rather have a Toyota that was driven off a cliff than own a GM….hmm that would probably make them equal in quality for once.

@gta89mike LOL seriously…well you definitely got me on that one, and ive been corrected several times on it. I know ‘they’re’…but ‘there’ and ‘their’ it’s never been my thing. thanks!…

@bujasso lol….pretty much…Domestic companies are a bunch of slackers who took advantage of the America consumer for way too long and they deserve to die. They only started making a decent effort in the last 2 years..so let’s see 1973 was the last time the Domestics produced great cars as a collective (Ford Lincoln Mercury GM Pontiac Buick Chevy Chrysler Dodge) They ALL made good cars….so what happened between 1973 to 2009? thats 36 years of blundering and selling crap. as Bush would say, “you fool me once…”

so if there’s anyone, out there that can dispute 36 years of Domestic crap–enlighten me. because you cant. there is no disputing it. if a college team was slacking during a season, they deserve to lose. so without further adieu..

 Buy TÒyÒta (or HÒnda)  because >their< cars are superior.

We are living money pit – not a movie. There is as much reason to pore billions into Gm, Chrysler and soon Ford as resurrecting TV industry in US. Admiral used to be a good TV company and think of it those cathod ray tubes could be used in discontinued radars. It is blackmail by well organized consortium of the rest of the nation. We should give financial help to Enron as well.

Funny, this whole talk about GM is crucial to the national security sounds like back in 1940’s to me. Wars nowadays are waged more on strategic airstrikes than actual ground battles so there is no need to produce that many tanks. But beyond that in the case of the US, tanks are for offensive attacks done on the enemy’s ground. Only if you have the Bush mentality would you support the notion of going to war with another nation outside afghan and iraq. So the posters who support this notion are either blind GM fans or misguided patriots.

“All China needs to do is simply pull the financial notes that the US owes, and never drop one bomb, to take out America”

Exactly why I wonder why US keeps harassing China on different issues when they are the ones who are holding the US’s debt. Didn’t China mention something about US should honor the notes should they ever require them? That would put US in a really deep hole. But you know what I’d have to say that they’re not as ignorant as the US posters here since they want US economy to grow as they have so much invested in US. So you guys should be nicer to the one lending you $.

Funny, GM /Chrysler may need money. I may die in my sleep tonight. I may get a cold tomorrow. Anything could happen. We could go into a depression that no one will care if GM went under because 85% of the manufacturers would and we would probably become protectionist.

my first reaction is that it’s a little late to let gm, or even chrysler, twist in the wind and die…we’ve already given them tens of billions…we, in a sense, have already made the decision to keep them alive through this mess by making that initial investment…chances are, imo, that we’re going to see them survive this thing no matter the cost to the taxpayer…is that fair? i think there’s some debate about that, but it’s seems extremely doubtful that we’d pull the plug now after having gone this far…

in the grand scheme, AIG is a much bigger and more malevolent problem than the car makers…at the end of the day the auto manufacturers produce a tangible product…something we can count, rate, compare, and obsess over on internet forums like this…in contrast, it seems as if it’s going to take a hundred economics phds to figure out what the heck AIG did and how to disentangle the mess they’ve caused all of us…in my opinion it’s a no brainer…keep the car guys, hang the greedy bastards that built the house of cards based on derivative investments…

Hmmm… Reminds one of that old saying…

“If you owe someone hundreds of thousands of dollars – you have a problem.
Owe them Millions – it’s their problem.”

…Just change the Amounts…what’s old is new again…ptl;-))

…a discourse on International Capital flows in an open trade regime/model vis-à-vis the Balance of Payments? Nah…I agree…Oh well, carry on;-)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ0z86LmXBM

DB9;-))

Hey, Veda-

Do you remember “The War to End all Wars?” That was WWI. Only problem? The Germans and the Japanese didn’t get the memo. WWII occurred despite the 1923 Washington Accord (the allies, including the U.S. and Britain, destroyed warships in order to bring balance-the Japanese refused to go along with it). It is folly to announce the end of large-scale war that demands national mobilization. As Plato said: Only the dead have seen the end of war. And, as my Military History professor (he’s a former Army colonel) said: Even in today’s wars, you do not win until you have boots on the ground (I was taking his class in the lead-up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq and, to this day, I cannot believe how accurately he predicted how everything would go down-the man literally mapped out the next 5 years of misery in Iraq). I would caution you that, while 60 years seems like a long time without a major world war that necessitated overseas deployment of large numbers of offensive troops and weaponry, 60 years is a blink of the eyes in terms of history (there have been MANY periods of peace that were much longer, but all predated world wars).

As for the Chinese holding our debt, well, they will never pull those notes. At least, not anytime soon. Why? The U.S. is still China’s most important export market. Unlike the U.S., China doesn’t have a strong domestic market, which means their citizens don’t have enough to spend (in the case of about 2/3 of them) or refuse to spend and, rather, save (in the case of about 1/3 of them). So, China MUST export to the U.S. in order to drive their own economy. And, unfortunately for China, they have conditioned their people to expect double-digit economic growth, which is why China is seeing a rapid rise in domestic unrest at present. China is only seeing the “anemic” (read: any other industrialized nation would kill for it) growth rate of somewhere between 7-9% (projected) this year. The point of all this? China cannot just “pull the notes” as so many think.

You’re probably now thinking, “hey, buddy, ya proved my point! Now China has NO reason for war with the U.S.!” That, however, would be wrong. We still have the critical flashpoint of Taiwan. That is the one the Pentagon worries the most about (Tibet, human rights, N. Korea, etc. are far less likely). And, while tensions have eased in recent years with the re-empowerment of the KMT, there are still serious worries (you’ll get that with 1500+ missiles targeting Taiwan). Why do we worry so much about Taiwan? Well, they’re a functioning democracy and we still have a duty to support freedom. More importantly to our own strategic needs, Taiwan is known as “the unsinkable aircraft carrier” and would serve as a point for China to extend its reach into the Pacific. Lastly, and most importantly, the Taiwan Relations Act is a U.S. LAW that REQUIRES us to supply Taiwan with defensive weaponry AND aid in her defense if China should attack (we can’t abrogate our legal responsibilities-it’d be a terrible precedent).

Look, I could go on and on about China. I’ve spent over a decade of my life studying their history, politics and language. However, I know I’m lecturing and that’s not a good idea. I just want to give you SOME pause to consider that there IS a case to be made for the strategic need of the auto industry.

I want to talk about cars.

Exige250-

Sorry buddy, but you clicked on a story that’s more about auto policy than the actual cars. Since the article is talking about politics, Veda and I are more on point than a discussion about specific cars, which seems to be what you want. There’s a simple fix though . . . go click on a story that doesn’t have words like “loan;” but, rather, choose a story with the actual name of a car in the title.

carstuff: We shouldn’t be protectionist. If each country is turning into protectionism, the global trade will halt. That is a bad thing. That is a pessimistic approach.

There is a better way to do things. This is auto forum, so I stick to cars & things. As point out by various experts in this forum, the big 3 has to

1/ change their current out of date sales and marketing strategies – reliability of cars are getting better. The cycle for people to buy new cars will be significantly longer.

2/ build cars on global platform to attract larger audience & lowering development cost. GM & Ford are doing it. But emphasis is on cars, SUVs get you nowhere outside US and Canada.

3/ build quality cars – again GM & Ford are on track. However, external skin of the car may be important, to me; the mass appeal is the interior where the interaction between the driver/passengers & the car (i.e. the manufacturers) take place.

4/ muscle cars will not resurrect dying auto industry. Buying habit of the mass is shifting to internal luxury items for the “ME” world. That said, to generate some aurora around the company and to satisfy the petal to metal fan clubs & car magazine editors, do keep developing some iconic car such as Camaro, Mustang.

5/ most of the cars on the street are 4 cylinders. These are commuter cars; these are the bread & butter for the auto industry. 4 cylinders means fuel economy & oil price is inching up again. This is market opportunity the Detroit 3 abandoned long times ago.

6/ hybrid is not the ultimate solution for fuel economy, but unless someone suggest otherwise that is the only probable solution we have. Plug-in is just a variant on the general scheme of electric power vehicle. Having Government to pump money to setup the costly research & development, R&D, centers in Detroit helps. We surely don’t have the technology to build battery – cheap & efficient battery. For now, all cheap & efficient battery means Korea, Japan, France & China. They have developed the technology while we were partying.

7/ union has its days. True, workers for big companies need to be protected, but the cumulative ills of the past 30+ years of UAW & their attitude regardless of the economic situation got to go. The industry needs a major overhaul of the relationship and power sharing between UAW and the auto manufacturers. Token concession from UAW don’t mean a thing to save the domestic US auto industry. Maybe UAW needed to be dismantled and replaced with a union that helps to protect the common needs of the workers and a union that a survivable domestic auto industry can support.

UAW is not the only guilty party here. The big 3 management over the years were partners in crime as well.

The future of the auto industry is not that bleak. We just have to bite the bullet and take some hits – and we march on to do the right thing – for a better tomorrow. This is my naive optimistic view.

@Sorcerer. Do you think the american consumers should buy cars from domestic manufacters instead of importred, just to support them and inspite their drawbacks?

Veda: you’re right, to some extent about the types of wars we engage in these days.
it’s going to me more hit-and-skit in the crags of Afghanistan

What is with all this patriotism? World war three? International is an American company that has been around for over 100 years. They make vehicles for the military, they will continue to make them if there is a world war three. I’m sure Detroit Diesel, Paccar which owns Peterbilt and Kenworth, and many other American owned/run companies would help out for a war. World war three would probably be, push a button and a continent is gone, anyway. No more men with guns on the ground. A lot of American companies are consolidated with other companies from all over the world, anyway. It’s all business.
Give these companies all the money in the world. The consumer makes the decisions which keep the company alive. Example, HD DVD and Blue-ray, someone had to win and Toshiba had to pull out. So if you Americans are so patriotic and want to save these American brands, go sell your five year old GM that you just finished paying off and buy a brand new GM to keep them alive. Do you have that kind of money?

SomeGreek: Can’t tell you what to buy. It is a personal decision. There is just some thinking to do before purchasing on top of the superficial things such as brands, reliability. But the Detroit 3 has to show us some glimmer of hope first.

wagon: there is no patriotism here as far as I am concern. The war thing was brought on by some frustrated audience. Topic was should GM, Chrysler be saved. If they (Ford included) can produce quality products AND products that the consumers want, HELL yes. Lots of jobs are on the line here. But if the root of the problems for the Detroit failures cannot be isolated (other than lip service acknowledgement that they exist) and systematically eliminating these problems, then the Detroit 3 are the money pit as someone said earlier. The Detroit 3 really need to provide a workable & believable plan, accountable commitment and a realistic end game scenario (OPEN TO THE PUBLIC) before further loans can be issued. How about putting all the management (for those who receive loans) in mandatory yearly probation?

Expand a bit on battery in hybrid cars. Lithium ion battery is not a viable economic solution despite the hype. There are only 2 large deposits of lithium in the world. One in China and one in the not so friendly country in S. America. There is probably 20 years (max) commercially life expectancy in mining for Li in China. Even finding economical source of Li for battery used in laptop computer is getting harder & harder. We really can use some R&D initiatives to find the next best chemical compound. I think COMPOUND is the key word.

DB9, excellent comment. We, US citizens, are owed by auto industry alone over 20 billions. We do have a tiny problem, you think?

Hmmm… Just a little;-) It looks to get even better though! The weekend financial press is awash with speculation on Washington’s “new and improved” Bank/Financial Sector package due this week. Gee, I can’t wait:-/ You can’t spend your way out of a 20 yr debt financed consumption binge! The Keynesians lost to the Monetarists back in the 70’s. The Trillion Dollar plus financial sector bailout is just a futile attempt to prop up the house of cards. The only thing that can be accomplished is a short-term reprieve – maybe?/! There is only one way to correct for the lengthy market excess/exuberance across all economic sectors and that is what scares the Begeezus out of everyone in the know – deflation! Now that we’re at ~100% total debt to GDP… what’s next stock up on green ink??? Hmmm…

DB9;-)

PS. Remind yourself, what was the final kick that shoved this unsustainable mess off the cliff earlier then had been predicted (~5yrs)? That’s right…rampant speculation in oil derivatives and other commodities last year. In a dark humor way it’s hilarious though:-))) TDF:-))) The very same whack- jobs that profited immensely on wild short term price swings…did so right out of their jobs and brought down some of the largest Investment Banks in the process. Now the tax payer is on the hook and the viability of the capitalist system is at stake…freaking hilarious – job well done;-))) Some of us actually made money off of all this…don’t you just love new paradigms;-)

stop blowing out tax money on companies that can not get it right…

This is one reason I like LLN, the other people who know what they’re talking about, and can give good information from all POVs. Minus the few crazies of course.

I think that our American 3 need to sit down and, first off, make a list of all the target markets they want to sell to (Families of 5, enthusiasts, tech junkies, single or carpooling commuter, etc). Then make a list of all the other vehicles out there that satisfy each market the best and why they do so. From there it’s as simple as picking which markets they want to sell to, and innovating them to do the job better than the rest. Easier said than done, I know.

Which brings me to the point that even though I don’t necessarily want them to get anymore loan money, something has to be done, whether it’s the manufacturing process, or abolishing the current UAW, or cycling a new executive administration, or give them the money, as long as they don’t go down.

Or, let them go bankrupt, and then give them the money to build back from there. But on a once chance option. “Here is the money, don’t mess up again or you’re on your own.” And leave it at that.

Bigjim:

I think you’re on the ball.
Gov’t has to make it clear that it’s paying out, and not taking on a permanent obligation

Give GM the money but don’t waste it on Chrysler. Chrysler is not viable anymore. GM is tied to the US economy that if they fail, wwe all fail. We owe it to GM to support them in any way shape or form, even if it means sacraficing the lesser brands to do it.

What is good for General Motors is good for America

“What is good for General Motors is good for America”

^ Sometimes. Volt – yes. Camaro – Maybe. Dropping Saturn – No.

Excellent posts and viewpoints by most. If it took GM 30+ years of blundering to earn the worst reputation both by consumers and internal bureaucracy, it will be nearly impossible for them to bounce back mainly because of the current time frame based on economy.

The question is: can GM convince the American consumer that they have changed there ways in…5-6 months or even a year? Can they gain Toyota Honda reputation in a short time frame. 30yrs vs 1 yr? no.

The only way to do it is to hit the reset button w/ bankruptcy. Flush out everyone w/ major house cleaning. continue GM for commercial fleets in the transition with their trucks. rehire,regroup, study the mistakes, study competitive success, restart small. Only then would American consumers possibly regain faith in GM….

±

By GM Emerican, it’s urine Emerican duty! Thar is no equil to GM on the planit! Tradors!

@NMOFT

If Americans would simply walk onto the lot of Chevy, Ford and Chrysler they’d find a lot of great products that are world class:

GM
Now: Silverado, Corvette, Traverse, Malibu, CTS
Soon: Camaro, Volt

Ford
Now: F-Series, Fusion, Edge, Flex, Mustang, MKZ
Soon: Taurus, F100/Ranger (whatever they wind up naming it), Focus, Fiesta

Chrysler
Now: Ram, 300, Charger, Challenger, Liberty
Soon: 200, EV

Now, the big question mark here is Chrysler because it doesn’t have a mid-size car to compete with Fusion, Malibu, Accord, Camry, Mazda 6. I’m drooling over the 200, especially after learning it’s RWD and based on the 300 (just scaled down to normal car proportions). Put the Phoenix direct-injection V6 in there and that’s at least the foundation of a great car.

Blatant Turd, I node they wood to! Butt wye did you liss tose other cars? GM wil rull the wurld! No kneed for tose othur two as my causin NMOFGM wood say, GM the Emerican Revilowtion!

Payton Byrd, only the Vette is world class out of the cars you mentioned and are available “Now”…

@SomeGreek

And what are you basing that comment on? Certainly not on reviews by the automotive press.

I’m basing my comment, on any review coming from Europe about american models. A car cannot be world class when it sells exclusively in it’s homeland.

Lionwithoutpride, agreed 100%. I think the world is better off if economic relations between US and China get stronger. Money talks and you may just see them fight a common enemy together in a war especially if the younger generation goes up in the political ladder.

@ somegreek: to add on this: european testers usually rate the “bang for the buck” of the corvette rather high, but rate the overall car down for the cheapish interior and the weird driving behavior (eventhough that has improved lately, but still is not at par with other cars of that performance… then again… vette is by far cheaper, and it got to show in some places…)