2 million… thats a lot of jobs… are they really all necessary?

Finally, get rid of a lot of the union people so I don’t have to hear them whine all the time. Maybe Toyota will pick some of them up?

Let them all collapse if they cannot stand on their own. Too much taxpayer money being used that is going down the drain and will never be seen again.

Same philosophy, different industry. Take heed American taxpayers!

I’m voting for Barack Obama, but I can’t say that I support his decision on this one.

The country’s bankruptcy is imminent … what does it matter what happens between now and then?

And some thought this was going to be a done deal by the end of the week. Ha, good one. It’s Halloween on Friday. I think I’ll wear a snout and a pair of wings and see if I can merge with an Airbus before the night’s over.

USA is known to stand together in crisis. About now is the time to buy US cars. (I am from Norway, and we dont make cars at all).This is not the right time to buy a Toyota in USA is my opinion.

Ah, now like any other time is to buy the car which proves to be the best value and fitness for particular purpose. Buying something for other reasons is financially stupid. Unfortunately there are plenty of stupid people out there who would consider buying a substandard product (Chrysler, comes to mind) in the name of some emotional or patriotic response.

The US should keep bailing-out American companies. Let’s keep increasing the national debt and screw over the future generations even more. Go baby-boomer mentality!!!!

OK “The Stig”, but i would be a happy man if a substandard product like the RTS Challenger stood parked in my driveway:-)

The reason the big 3 are in the position they’re in is due to almost 40 years of mismanagement. They eroded a colossal lead, a lead many naively felt was insurmountable (and even if GM vaguely missed the mark they should’ve still been in a strong position… which they and Ford most definitely are not anymore), by poor or inferior product… ignorant spending… ignorance in terms of union agreements (signing ridiculous contracts that they have no one to blame for but themselves), bean-counting, missing the boat on forecasting the industry, and poor engineering and/or ignorance in giving their engineering staff the resources necessary to make things a success out of the gate. Their sheer size they grew too made them grossly inefficient, and their managerial issues aren’t just a matter of having the right people… but the whole system or process in which those managers interact or work. When a looming iceberg is in your way, these companies… much like the Titanic, are too monolithic to turn on a dime, and with too many indians (beancounters and shareholders) in charge and no amount of chiefs to overcome that, to put the foot down, and DEMAND product and the way forward be given 100% vs. half-arsed… it is what it is.

From Roger Smith’s spending billions on Saturn’s creation, depleting cash to keep the rest of GM successful, Saturn leaving the gate late… being uncompetitive when it did ship (was barely competitive with product that was 6 years it’s senior, much less what was shipping on that date), and taking eons to turn a profit… this is but *ONE* story of the Big 3’s woes. Ironically, all were in largely the same boat.

Chrysler has been in a bad way for many years (the oil crisis was largely the start of this, their prior bankruptcy bailout makes it almost amazing that they’ve managed to go this far), although they were just on the brink of success when Bob Eaton (former GM Europe exec and head of Chrysler upon it’s sale to Daimler) sold them down the river. While they were improving, they were still behind the import competition when sold to Daimler. After numerous missteps under Daimler, poor executive decisions, and inability to vertically integrate into Daimler’s existing roadmaps… the Daimler buyout was probably the worst possible solution at the time considering how much of a missive it became.

Ford… it’s more of the same, misinterpreting markets, failing to forecast the market properly, producing product that is decontented in ways to undercut the competition significantly in pricepoint but in the end… ultimately damaging the reliability and quality of said product. Ford’s had numerous opportunities to seize the moment but whether it was the reliability issues of the first Focus, the problems with bringing Ford of Europe cars in under Merkur, et al… Ford has managed to take great potential ideas and squander them. With Alan Mulally, I expect there to be some change here if Ford can execute on their plans but… that’s still a big if and more a case of “when”. If Ford can put their plans into place and deliver, great… but if they deliver too late, they could end up being no more than another Saturn. Best intents but way too late to be effective.

I’m American, and while I’m Patriotic and Nationalistic and proud of what our workforce and people can achieve in the right circumstances, with the right leadership, the Big 3 have largely dug their own grave. Why should it be up to us Americans to bail them out from their missteps anymore than it’s our job to bail out the lending institutions that mismanaged and cannibalized this countries’ health due to predatory tactics and manipulating the weak and naive? It is high on ignorant to throw $ at inferior product that isn’t competitive or fails to meet customers particular needs as “The best possible solution” based entirely on emotion or patriotism, it is logical to buy the best tool for the job… to buy something that in the end, assures you years of happiness, success, and fits you and your needs. There’s a certain fallacy in blind patriotism… the same type that would likely suggest that we should give our $ to American lending companies when it was the ignorance of American lending companies and their predatory tactics within this Credit Crunch/Tsunami that has put us in the position we’re in today.

Moral of the story… buy what suits you, what is the best tool for the job, what you like best. It’s up to the executives at the Big 3 to find out what the public wants, engineer it to compete, design it to reliably perform on a competitive level, and price it accordingly. If they can’t do that, and mind you… the Big 3 have continued to move more and more of their workforce outside of the U.S. into Canada, Mexico, Brazil, China, et al. as the Germans, Koreans, and Japanese have entrenched here and put U.S. workers to work… there’s no reason to buy in or support those who are not building a product that can support you long-term, that isn’t priced effectively, that isn’t supporting the American people that are the pillar of this country (the blue collar workers), and beyond all of that… at the end of the day, isn’t what you want.

Blind patriotism, as I call it, is waving your flag and buying into the rhetoric (in a global economy, the dividing lines aren’t nearly what many wish to think them as) even in the midsts of catastrophic mistakes, ignorance, deception, and exploitation. In a global economy, where workforces across the world are tapped, it is not what the U.S. white collar exec does (while making millions a year, shipping jobs overseas, taking a colossal golden parachute on his way out the door after doing a piss-poor job at the helm) that is that important as they can sell you out even as other countries are friendly to the American workforce and economy by providing jobs, benefits, and quality pay. The Reaganomic vision of putting the money in the big spenders pockets only to watch the Wal Marts and GM’s et al. continue to ship jobs overseas vs. reinvest in America, and people’s willingness to buy into the thought process of continuing to do it… is part of the problem that has gotten us here as a nation and struggling to drive out of the hole as quickly as some hoped/desired us to.

As a Libertarian/Constitution-minded individual, while I prefer small government (for the same reason big monolithic businesses often tumble at somepoint) and am not a huge fan of government programs when civil sector programs ran as business are liable to be more successful (esp. with free market competition vs. engineered in complacency), even I understand that it is the top % of white-collar salaried workers that can afford to bolster the economy by taxation far more than the lower-middle workers (blue collar – lower white) who have the greatest potentials to start up small businesses from scratch (consider what Wal Mart has done to small business and what the benefits of taxing a Wal Mart to get mom and pop back in business on mainstreet) and put Americans back to work, give Americans a future, and give us a chance of rising again. Considering that the white collar workers that pay taxes are often the workers who hire lawyers and financial advisors to exploit loopholes in the system, can afford to do so, they’re liable to find a way to write it all off anyhow somehow.

It is more important as to who is looking after #1 (yourself), and that is the same for who is putting the jobs on the table for the American people (growing their presence vs. diminishing it) just as much as who is going to put something under your butt (i.e. car) that will last long-term. You still have to be willing to hold who you’re buying product from accountable and not continue to fall into the same mistaken choice over and over, let them “EARN” you back by living up to the market’s needs… not just by jumping in bed with them and taking one for the team. It’s good to be proud to be an American, I know I am, but you still have to see the forest for the trees at the end of the day… as does the auto industry need to quit hitting snooze and adhere to the wakeup call and learn not just to deliver on what people want today, but to see the state of affairs, become lean and mean, get in the trenches, and finally take it to the competition vs. sit on their hands when the market falls out from under them. If Toyota can flip-flop plants around (i.e. put Prius’ and Camry’s that are successful at a plant where a less successful vehicle is being built) and change the product at each to meet demand; GM, Ford, and Chrysler need to be able to do so themselves. If Toyota and Honda can have economical cars permeating their lineup next to Big Trucks and Big cars… GM, Ford, and Chrysler *MUST* be able to do the same. If they can’t… it’s their loss, not ours. I’m from a decidedly GM family, I’ve had workers work at GM before, my family has owned GM cars for years (with the exception of a few Fords, and a Chrysler-era Jeep Cherokee), but that said… after years of brakes that pit and rust, after interior plastics that are cheap and fall to pieces, after electrical systems that eat alternators like candy, at some point you have to do what YOU have to do.

I sincerely hope Chrysler and GM and Ford survive, hell… I still miss American Motors and am more than a bit sad that Renault bailed on them years ago… but they need to do it on their own merits, under their own worth… not by us blindly trying to save someone that won’t save themselves. At the end of the day, if they want to stick around bad enough… they’ll answer the call themselves, or they’ll face the music.

Thats a friggin long rant, Clarkson would be so proud of you if he were American

To “IVIIVI………Very informative reading. Thanks!

Aaaaa……
No………
As long as the Unions are around they will hold up progress, trust me if they have any opportunity of some of the $25.BILLION they will do every then they can to get every penny, and screw the auto-makers….