thank you captain obvious

I personally don’t care about GM and the overpaid high school dropouts working the assembly lines who will lose their jobs. I don’t care that other companies that build parts for GM will also go under, and I don’t care that GM will no longer exist. Crap company building crap cars for the crap sector of the population who knows nothing about what it means to drive a high quality machine. GM ripped off America for a long time, and the party is finally over. Make room for more imports, I love it here in California where most of the cars you see on the road are imports. Shows were smarter than most Americans.

Chapter 11 does not necessarily mean death to GM.

I don’t understand how if GM goes down, it will take the rest of the car industry with it. How does that make any sense?
I know that Toyota, Honda, and most of the European manufacturers would be fine. If anything they would move in to fill the tiny gap, especially since they are building more and more plants in the US.
It would be sad if they go down, but like howsmydriving said, “it doesn’t mean death to GM”. How many airline industries file chapter 11 after 9/11, but are still here.

Well said planet_drive, except for ’smarter than most Americans’, which even most people who live there would agree with. Although I do understand that the economy as a whole would take a hit, sadly, so I think what the government should do is agree to provide financial assistance…only if they shed 60% of their offerings and dismember the stupid asses that make up the unions.

Planet_Drive, if all the californilosers are so smart, why is most of the state bankrupt?

And I also agree….I think everyone is right in not blindly believing that if they go down, it is an absolute fact that they entire economy would go down completely….who says? And when are they ever right, anyway?

i guess it would just have to happen to show the uninformed what it would mean.

@planet_drive: “shows were smarter than most Americans”. Um, that’s “we’re” smart guy.

Your not American planet_drive, your bank account has been hijacked for treason

Some don’t read.

The article explains that suppliers and vendors are shared by other domestic and import auto companies. There are also supporting industries that have little to do with the automotive industry but are interdependent that would be affected – marketing, advertising, insurance, shipping, etc. If a major company fails – its subsidiaries fail. (Hence why Saleen is up for sale – because of Fords issues)

You don’t have to be a auto enthusiast to understand that if GM or Ford fail, this US economy will be so significantly in jeopardy that it may not be able to be salvaged. Some people need an education to get this.

Anyone who wants to see GM go down and all its employees lose their jobs is a jackass, that includes morons from California who are too snobbish to drive anything other than a German or Japanese car.

Your comments illuminate your ignorance of macro-economic factors and show off your disdain for anything American. How long have you been living in this country?

Let me give you a lesson, from someone who also lives in California but was lucky enough to have been brought up in another State so I still have brain cells left:

The suppliers who supply parts to GM, Chrysler, and Ford also supply parts to Toyohondasan. If suddenly the Big 3 go bankrupt those suppliers will not have enough cash to remain in business, meaning your beloved foreign auto manufacturers will not be able to build the cars you will only buy.

Are you following this? Take a few hours and let it sink in, I know you’ll need it.

After the Big 3 go under, the suppliers go under, then every company that caters to these companies start to fall like dominoes-the restaurants, barbers, dry cleaners, office supply stores, etc etc all go out of business leaving a mass of unemployed who will now be dependent on the Govmnt for unemployment, health care, pensions, then most likely welfare.
We are talking about millions of jobs and billions of dollars over what the companies need as a bridge loan to get them through this crisis.
And while they may have brought some of this on themselves product wise, that is mostly in the past, and they are competing against companies that do not have to pay health care for their workers, from countries that did not give the same market access as we gave to their companies.
Lastly, ALL of the car companies are failing right now-Toyota down 25%, Honda and Nissan and Mercedes down big time. Noone saw this coming, if it weren’t for the credit crisis this discussion would not be taking place. Since it is and they all have great product coming out next year when hopefully the credit crisis will have eased they need a bridge loan to get them there. This is not unreasonable considering the Federal Govmnt does absolutely nothing to aid our manufacturers while all foreign Govmnts do aid their industries.

To sum up-It will cost us MUCH more later than doing something now, both in monetary terms and psychological.
It may not bother you to see the USA have no Homegrown Auto companies left, but I guarantee it would bother Real Amercans a great deal.

^ I banged your cat! In the back seat of my Sti.

GM along with all the other big autos are in a slowing economy with uncertinty of what auto’s to produce to be compeitive, but stop making autos in all sizes and shapes. Keep in mind what you are selling well and stay in that market ,let suburau make wagons, scion make the box, let chevrolet and ford make trucks, and toyota and honda make their matchbox racers. STOP TRYING TO MAKE 30 DIFFERENT CARS NO ONE WILL BUY CAUSE THERE IS TO MUCH COMPETITION ALREADY IN THAT MARKET

@steve333: Well said. Even though I do admit to driving a German car, it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out the ripple effect, the complete demise of any of the Big 3 will have across other industries. It may be valid that they dug their own graves, unions, poor products, executive slimeballs. However, it goes far beyond just the Big 3. And, for anyone who thinks imports would be any cheaper as a result of their demise, you’re living a pipe dream. Less competition rarely results in lower prices. And, GM has made improvements, ala, CTS, CTS-V, GTO, Corvette…

While GM just lost 6 billion, AIG just lost… 30!

GM stocks down $1… to $3.36
Ford stocks down 9 cents… to $1.96

Good question Mayer. So is about every other state.

planet_drive- You can either think illogically, or logically and mature about the current situation.

You can be immature and spread rhetoric, regurgitated nonsense about how horrible the current automakers are. Fact is, Detroit’s come out with some extremely good products in the past year or so. It’s unfortunate that the created sub-par, bland products in the past 15. So did the rest of the world.

Or, you can grow a pair of balls and grow up *some*. The products that have come out in the past year are the products of projects that have been in work since 2004. From GM AND Ford. Chrysler may have been too busy being stagnant (evidence in the PT Cruiser, Pacifica, 300C, etc.). The new Flex, Malibu, CTS, large SUV’s from both Ford and GM, F-150 and Fusion are all very good, if not at the top of their class. I haven’t seen the same from Chrysler, but while GM and Ford have a watershed of new vehicles, Chrysler’s been busy managing assets and overhead.

More than a million jobs lost… Who ever says that if the Big Three go down then the economy won’t dearly suffer I’m automatically labeling as under the age of… three. I hear E-trade is making a new baby commercial as well, so you might as well apply.

hey i might be a curry munching pickle smelling kebab cooking indian or pakistani to most…..but it looks like insignificant nobodies in asia will take be taking over the auto industry!! how do they have so much money when they cant afford 3 meals a day!! (this statement will taste better with a hint of sarcasm)
pardon my grammatical errors…..i couldnt afford a spellchecker for my pc….cuz im poor…..but mainly because im an indian..no….no pakistani…
gots to go dance to a bollywood song now!!

Actually, by most of the accounts I’ve read, at their current burn rate, they will be at minimum liquidity (11-14b on hand) by the end of the year. This year. As in December.

If the Gov’t were smart, they’d let them go C11 THEN help them, after they’ve shedded all the dealers, re-do the UAW contracts, and all the other cost-cutting things that C11 will allow them to do without lawsuits, etc.

Let GM go down. The government shouldn’t have to step in to help them. suppliers are stupid for doing business with GM. they should have seen this comming for years. GM your day is comming soon. really soon.

OK then, we’re all decided. A bailout is in many ways the worst thing the government can do but like it or not it’s the only thing it can do. So get on with it.

Much like house training a puppy however, Washington needs to figure out a way to rub Detroit’s nose in the mess they created before they give the dogs their bone.

Planet_drive you give people in California a bad name and an even worse image. I also live in California and see mass numbers of US made cars. Fact is to lose GM, it would hurt our entire country as a whole you moron. Not to mention large parts of the global auto industry. The fall of our US auto makers would drive prices up considerably on all cars and all companies everywhere. Its attitudes like that are going to be the downfall of our global economy. How about the fact that GM is a major part of our countries History. Helped to build technologies that were and are used by all automakers. Your obviously an idiot for making comments like that. So do us a favor and drive you STI off a cliff.

^G8, Malibu, Aura, Outlook, Acadia, Traverse, Enclave, Vue, Cobalt SS, Solstice, Sky, Silverado, Sierra, Avalanche, Yukon, Tahoe, Escalade, etc.

GM does make cars people want to buy. That’s why their retail share, despite the economic troubles, has risen, while they’ve slashed their daily rental rates.

The problem is that GM (and Ford and Chrysler) has been primarily a healthcare provider that makes cars on the side, while Toyota, Honda, Nissan, et al, have been allowed to build plant after plant in our country without having to hire UAW labor, like GM, Ford, and Chrysler are required to (or else, face massive strikes).

Did GM, Ford and Chrysler make mistakes by building poor products in the ’80s, going truck-mad in the ’90s and early ’00s, and only in the last few years attending to their passenger cars? Absolutely. But part of the truck emphasis was to get profits in the coffers so the companies could operate with their higher wages and legacy costs.

Sorry folks, but GM going down would kill the industry, kill Ford and (what’s left of) Chrysler, and severely injure – if not mortally so – the foreign competition. Our market is the biggest car market of any one country in the world. More than one million jobs would be lost – and that’s just in this country.

Our government has been partially complicit in the weakening of these companies by governing poorly. It’s time we paid a (relatively small) price for that before we’re forced to pay a massive one.

I love how some people are like, “I don’t see how GM’s collapse would effect imports”, when they spell it out in the article.

Look, if AIG is getting $150 BILLION, why wouldn’t GM and the rest get what they need?

The USA is bankrupt. Buy gold.

For those who think that GM’s collapse is just a massive job loss, it is more than that, most affordable vehicles in U.S. are made by the Big 3, obviously, so most companies (from pizza deliveries to FEDEX) use those vehicles, if GM loses we all lose, even us who aren’t from and aren’t in US.
We can really be watching how the USA sinks. Let’s see how Barack does as President.

CCMD = Car Companies of Mass Destruction
.
The propaganda is stifling with these doomsday reports of how the US economy and the world is going to collapse based on car companies and their ancillary industries. If anything this is the biggest wake-up call in manufacturing history that so many are so dependent that we must capitulate in throwing coal (read “money”) onto the fire to keep them going…it’s going to be a cold winter. The foreign manufacturers are already making preparations for the future to try to avoid this very situation with suppliers today and their built-in collateral damage time-bombs. Synonymous to the oil industries manipulating the market and the fact that oil is a finite resource (to the degree and capacity needed to keep the machine oiled today), why would anyone wish to throw money away on a dated car industry? Yes, there are some models that are worthy, and yes, there is the yet unproven Volt, but this does not cross the chasm that separates where the car companies are today and where they should already be. And to boot the car companies have not mentioned anything about dismissing those top executives who led the way into disaster. This means the same execs will get to do it all again with an endless supply of taxpayers’ money! How can I get in on the money train that rides on no tracks to nowhere?
.
Time to throw a money printing party and start handed it out so we can all feel better and keep living the falsehood that everything will be all right, and even turn out all right. Hell, I might as well start the printing press at my residence and throw a money party…it will achieve about as much as bailing out the car companies will.

If GM tanks the rest of the US economy would not fall apart. C’mon, that’s fear mongering.

Golf4me seems to have a handle on this dire situation
BK might be the best thing to ever happen to GM
GM vehicles are doing very well over seas in Russia and China, but those markets are still small compared to the US
GM needs to get smaller and more efficient, (and maybe get some people in there with some brains while they’re at it) , and BK might be the means to an end.
GM DOES MAKE SOME FINE VEHICLES NOW (the are starting to do something right)
But it might be too little, too late for GM 1.0
GM 2.0
Do we dare?
DrFill

I’m from Detroit and know that the ripple effect this would have on the country is too great to fathom. Personally this would put the final nail in the coffin of Michigan. I have friends who work for GM and no planet_drive they are not “overpaid high school dropouts”. They are well educated people who are trying to make a living and support their families. Of course GM and Ford have learned from their past mistakes and they are paying dearly for them.

Another thing planet_drive….just imagine how many vacant buildings there would be in your state alone if GM went out of business. Think of all the salesmen and mechanics and administrative staff would be in the unemployment lines. You don’t think that would be a drain on your already over taxed state. By the way didn’t California say they might need a loan to keep from going broke?

californians smarter than most americans…. hahahahahah
just more arrogant i think is the word
you all hug trees and want to make a stupid statement with your big cloud of smug
waft the stink of your own farts in while it lasts cause when the tidal wave hits thank the lord youre going first

US Treasury has spent 2 Trillion Dollars….YES 2 TRILLION to bail out all the crooks on wall street.

I guarantee they will bail out UAW workers and small local suppliers by saving GM and Ford.

Chrysler however may die.

So GM screwed themselves because they didn’t listen to the overall population for the past 15 years, and I guess you can say it’s a case of “Too little, too late”. Damn shame, really. I’m quite fond of the Corvette. They go bankrupt, ripples through the industry, thousands jobless.

That’s the “American Dream”.

LLLL#3, I’ve got news for you…the people who steered GM into this mess have long since retired or moved to other companies (Ron Zarella, Roger Smith, etc.). Wagoner and Lutz have done an admirable job of bringing the focus back to cars, and designing and building them well.

But it takes YEARS to get vehicles on the market, and Lutz came on in 2002…so the earliest his efforts would really be made into metal were in 2006. I think you would agree that every new vehicle introduced by GM from 2006-on has been at or near the top of its class in performance, quality, and fuel economy. Retail market share has improved, warranty claims have plummeted, and quality and critical acclaim have improved vastly.

What is happening to GM and Ford are circumstances NO ONE in the industry saw coming. These two companies were in the middle of massive turnaround efforts while gas prices exploded beyond anyone’s imaginations, killing off demand for their most profitable vehicles, and then the credit crisis wiped out sales in the lower parts of the market (i.e. passenger cars) where these companies were finally investing in and bringing to market some appealing, competitive metal. It would have been enough to need to compete against the foreign manufacturers in perceptual quality (a challenge they earned) AND lower margins due to higher worker wages and legacy costs (a challenge that they didn’t).

But then the bottom dropped out, and these two companies now seem to be to weak to withstand the current conditions and stay competitive. We can give $700B to line the 9-figure bonuses of those on top, while they STILL refuse to lend money. Done. Why shouldn’t we give $50B to the automakers to keep productive. high-paying jobs in America, invest further in competitve and world-beating technologies, and help them reconvert their plants to build the more fuel-efficient models?

Remember, it’s Chrysler that paid off its loan ahead of time in the ’80s, and the government earned 16% interest, to boot. The auto companies aren’t the banks and investment firms. They’ll handle this money far more responsibly.

Make no mistake, we need to learn from the mistake we’ve made with Wall Street. But the American economy needs its auto industry to have this money. Or we need to be prepared to pay many times more in government benefits when the unemployed apply for them.

Propping up failed businesses with taxpayer dollars is NOT good for the economy.

I live in california, i drive a ford

GM will have a large effect on the auto industry, just like chrysler. because EVERYTHING is intertwined. Just like when the housing market bubble popped, it had a ripple effect throughout many different industries… including the auto industry

We can hand Detroit money, and I’m all for that
It won’t solve the problem
Won’t change a damn thang!
No one is interested in buying the domestics anymore.
When you can’t hack 50% of your home market, the people are sayin somethin
Americans have had enough.
DrFill

First, it’s doubtful that the suppliers, if they are as diversified as they pretend to be, will go down if just ONE of the major US automakers goes down. That’s just silly, if you’re Delphi for example, you have tens of customers, and if one went out of business, sure, it sucks, but in the medium run they wouldn’t go down.

Second, GM can dig themselves out of the mess if they stopped sucking **** and started sucking up their pride, importing the cars they have already designed and are selling well outside of the US.
The US market is slowly merging back with the “real world” market where one can’t drive a car that gets 10 mpg and weights 3 tones because that’s simply wasteful and retarded.

Therefore, if GM was to bring over cars from Opel, some of the Chevy branded euro cars and so forth, with the highly successful engines they already designed for the rest of the world, than they could dig THEMSELVES out, given a little time. But this is not news, this was raised about 4 or 5 years ago already, and was ignored because GM feels that the US division is its best division, whereas the numbers tell a completely different story…

But of course, it’s much easier to go and play the cry-baby just like the banking sector did, and now is the perfect time to do it, with Obama under pressure to solve all the ****ing problems WE got into in the first place.

Man, moral hazard has never been more visible than now…

aexcorp-

Was not Delphi on the verge of bankruptcy until GM hammered out a deal that cost GM TONS of money in order to keep Delphi running? Good example aexcorp. No, really, no ripple effect at all!

Btw, slight correction . . . I forgot that Delphi DID go into bankruptcy.

Aex
The US market is slowly merging back with the “real world” market where one can’t drive a car that gets 10 mpg and weights 3 tones because that’s simply wasteful and retarded.

The “US market…..that’s simply wasteful and retarded” you speak of is called Texas.

DrFill

planet_drive “I love it here in California where most of the cars you see on the road are imports. Shows were smarter than most Americans”
Apparently “smart” people -
Build UNDERGROUND transportation and bridges near a fault line.
Plant crops in the middle of the desert (and talk about piping in water from the Great Lakes during long droughts, I guess you only care about YOUR environment).
Prevent controlled burns of dead brush so that there can be huge forrest fires.
Give squirrels that are over-populating a college campus “hormone treatment” (birth control) instead of relocating some of them. Won’t kill a couple of squirrels but don’t mind watching fellow AMERICANS starve without food or money.
California is not smarter but a bunch of self-centered ego maniacs that constantly contradict themselves.

Dr. Fill, I’ve read some of your posts in the past and for someone that tries to pawn themself off as an intelligent free-thinker, you end up coming off as brainwashed and w/out the capability of your own thought unless you read it in Edmunds or Consumer Report first(both extremely biased pieces of automotive media).

True Americans love vehicles with capability. We might not always use that capability but we like knowing it’s there. Asian cars are nice but boring.

Another smart mark
I guess you know more that everybody
Excuse me Mr J.D. Power
Ooops, another biased Japanese machine
You must work for Motor Trend
Damn, they have Toyotas win all the time too huh?
Maybe your work for C&D
Shoot, they sell Hondas hand over fist huh?
How about……….
DrFill

steve333 – awesome post.

Problem is that GM cars last TOO long. Mine is going on 28 years old and provides 100% reliable service day in and day out. I just change the oil every 2 to 3 months, and the occasional water pump or alternator.

planet_drive, Do us all a huge favor and unplug your PC, thank you.

olds307- you are a ****ing dumb ass.

plantdrive – you must be one of those people who walk around enjoying the smell of their own farts. people like you are exactly the reason i hate the liberal douche bags that propagate in California. take your STI and drive off a cliff. actually get out of the sti and run off a cliff because the sti is worth more then your life .

Calm down guys!
Give him a break
So he drives a piece of worthless monkey crap
At least he doesn’t pay every month for the divine privilige of driving worthless monkey crap
You did pay off that 288 month balloon car note last month, right?
DrFill

Just wanted to add………….
I drive a 2006 Cobalt LT Sedan-have yet to put a dime into it except for oil changes and tire rotations.
My mother owned a 1989 Chevy Celebrity-OK, not a great driving car but she traded it in on a 2006 Impala after 17 years. Not too shabby.

I test drove a Corolla, Civic (pre Klingon Dashboard), Mazda 3 and Ford Focus. I knew I was going to buy the Ford, Mazda (controlled by Ford), or Chevy but I needed to see how much better the Japanese cars were. They weren’t. At all. The Mazda 3 was the best driving car but the interior was too tight, the Civic was underpowered, and the Corolla was the worst car I have ever driven.
American cars are not bad at all was my discovery and you may find that as well if you actually drive one.

Lionwithoutpride
Don’t mistake poor management and inability to negotiate with the union as the equivalent of “being forced to go out of business”, I believe Delphi did it because they found financial incentive to, through their ability to cut pensions and reduce severance packages because they were “broke”.

Anyways, I’ll bow down and admit that I chose a very poor example, regardless of the specifics.

But fine, you want another example, look at Bosh, or Brembo, or VDO, or BorgWarner, or ZF, oh man, I can go all day… All of these have many different customers, and many even work in different segments, not just car manufacturing, because they’re well managed and smart.

As for DrFill, sorry to break it to you, but I drive around the East Cost quite a bit, and I can’t stop seeing retards driving Suburbans in DC, Philly, NYC, and other large cities, when there’s no way they’ve ever spent more than 2 minutes off-roading in their lives. Worse, half the people are alone, now fine, they might have a family at home, but ****, they don’t need a 3 tone steel monster to get around in urban and sub-urban traffic. On a side-note, Texas was pretty funny when I was there and drove around, I’ll give you that…

On a side-note, I own a GM car, fine, it’s made in Sweden, but it’s still GM-owned (2003 Saab 9-5 Aero) but I must say that I have NEVER had any problems with it, minus a slightly bullcrap issue with xenon lights flickering, which required an under warranty replacement. Appart from that, just oil changes and for the first time in 5 years, brake pads + rotors.

“You don’t have to be a auto enthusiast to understand that if GM or Ford fail, this US economy will be so significantly in jeopardy that it may not be able to be salvaged. Some people need an education to get this.”

Which makes it a sad state of affair given how the company that can topple the US economy is being run by Wagoner and the likes. So in effect they are holding the fate of the economy.

Blah blah blah a bunch of idiots on a scratch blog trying to convince each other by catapulting senseless facts and opinions back and forth.

We wouldn’t be in this mess if it weren’t for the greed of the auto workers and their bloody union. No one should be bailed out, we should SUFFER through a catastrophic recession that wipes out the local auto industry and its auxiliaries. In turn, those communist bums that leech off everyone else by scoring $30 an hour and a lifelong healthcare/pension for drilling the same two bolts into a car over and over will be forced to get exit La-la-land and a real job where they actually have to EARN their remuneration.

Sometimes you have to crack an egg to make an omelet. The omelet is the Japanese auto industry model. The egg is the American Communist approach to industry.

Ur taxes are gonna go through the roof you unpatriotic pricks!

HAHAHAHAHA might want to rethink that purchase next time you step foot in that Toyota or BMW dealership! Not only will you be a complete embarrassment to your country, but you will also be looked upon as a terrorist f&ck who sold his or her country to the swine of the earth (Japan, Germany).

It is your duty as Americans to support Americans by buying GM. Otherwise face the consequences of your mistakes.

“GM collapse could spell disaster for Ford, Toyota, Honda”

Good.

I hope it puts all you import buying f&ckheads in the unemplyment line too. Time to pay the piper for your mistakes you unAmerican douchbags. You are an embarrassment to your Country and are no different the rest of the slime of the earth over in Japan and Germany.

Think about your future. Buy GM or face peril

Need more oil for GM,

Thank you for education. We now all running to buy worthless crap that you and you colleagues either produced or trying to sell. I can see line wrapping around Saturn and Chevy dealers.

I can see some hick-ups, but collapse, not likely. GM can’t afford to pay Johnson Control for their products anyway. There will be some time of turbulence, but when dust settles everything will move on. We don’t make black and white TVs in US either, and surviving.

I don’t see how GM’s collapse will effect Toyota or Honda. They have huge market shares all over the world. GM’s main market is North America, and last time I checked, North America is not the entire planet. I would rather see Ford go bankrupt first, that would finally mean an end to horrible cars with horrible reliability. GM I’m glad to see going as well, but no way in hell does GM’s collapse mean bad news for Toyota and Honda. Their cars can be seen on roads all over the world. I spent the entire last summer all over Europe and I only saw one Caddy there! Just one! Tells you something about GM’s quality when noone in the rest of the world wants to buy them. Funny how the expensive AMG benzes can be seen all over the world, even while in Bosnia I saw a couple of AMG benzes!

Need More, thanks for the Oxynimrod
GM is in this monkey crap because people bought GM, and paid the price.
DrFill

The true fact of the matter is that GM has proven it can build world class vehicles…the new CTS, Malibu, Aura, G8, Corvette, to name a few. GM’s real problem is that no matter how beautiful, technologically advanced, or well-executed their products are, so many Americans still buy IMPORTS!! That’s the real issue here. I think is is absolutely pathetic that the f’in Toyota Camry is the best selling car in the U.S. We have no loyalty to the U.S. auto industry or the history and legacies that were established by all the hard work and pioneering that it brought.

I’m relieved to hear that there are no bankruptcy plans because if that were to happen, all the import buyers could thank themselves. There’s a reason why GM is laying off workers by the thousands and why towns in Michigan are vitually turning to ghost towns. THE IMPORT-BUYING AMERICANS ARE THE PROBLEM. You people have no idea what a tragedy it would be for GM to go under.

^ Are you kidding me? are you really that stupid and ignorant? Blame the public for buying imports?? Maybe we should blame GM for not know how to manage money, for not building quality cars that can be sold outside north america. GM is in this mess because its their own fault. Blaming others for GM’s problem is just pathetic. Like their cars.

YOU KNOW, I FOR ONE LIKE TO THANK, BEFORE I SPECK,

I LIVE IN CALIFORNIA AND THE STATE DOSE HAVE MORE THEN 600 MILLION PEOPLE, “FACT”
THAT’S WHAT U.S. SENSESENCE ESTIMATES WITH MY PEOPLE FROM THE SOUTH…..

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL POST BALE FOR THE BIG 3, THEY DID IT ONCE BACK IN THE EARLY 90′S FOR DODGE, THEY WILL DO IT AGAIN, YOU CAN BLAME BIG OIL FOR $4.50 A GAL. OF GAS, YOU CAN BLAME THE IMPORTS FOR DOING GOOD BUSINESS, YOU CAN BLAME THE WAR,

“THE TRUTH TO THE FACT IS, THAT FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL BALE OUT THE BIG 3″

THE “OBAMA” ADMINISTRATION IS ALL READY TRYING TO FIX-UP A SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM, AND THEY ARE NOT EVEN IN OFFICE YET…

WELCOME TO THE RESETION, THANK YOU GEORGE W. BUSH, MAY YOU LIVE THE GOOD LIFE…
YOU KNOW HIS FAMILY DOSE OWN 40% OF EXXON MOBILE, RIGHT???

YOU KNOW, I FOR ONE LIKE TO THANK, BEFORE I SPECK,
Are you sure you didn’t mean speak before you spank?
DrFill

Needforoil is obviously a plant by Sarah Palin
Step one to her 2012 campaign:
Insult the American public’s intelligence
Oh how I wish I could bottle her for scientific study

DrFill

Good job of laying it out LLN!

planet_drive: You’re misguided. That “crap sector of the population?” Look in the mirror!
Californians are more concerned about image than quality.
“Shows were smarter than most Americans.” What shows? And are these shows still smarter?

mayer_ray_nagin: “why is … the state bankrupt?” Failure to address its spending problems.

procrastinate now: good one.

vishus: “Some don’t read.” You obviously do. Funny how smart people don’t pick up what’s going on here.

steve333: again, it’s all about the smart people. good explainer.

jayjc08: …”and AIG doesn’t make or do anything!”

“regurgitated nonsense about how horrible the current automakers are.” Lot of people haven’t been in a domestic car since 1987.

ckron247: “Planet_drive you give people in California a bad name and an even worse image.” Hear, hear!

inline6: “Toyota, Honda, Nissan, et al, have been allowed to build plant after plant in our country without having to hire UAW labor, like GM, Ford, and Chrysler.”

They nipped that in the bud — at least Toyota did. You coun’t beg Toyota employees in kentucky to unionize!

hateful83: “I love how some people are like, ‘I don’t see how GM’s collapse would effect imports,’ when they spell it out in the article.” Those are the smart people. Us dummies got it immediately.

Rafa LL: Obama is a left-wing liberal (Not far-left, as hannity and those imbeciles will tell you), so he’ll come big with new social programs. I’d like to see him do more things that let the working man put himself ahead.

DrFill: good post.

mikeyg1975: apparently your friends don’t deserve to make a living. They only exist to be looked down upon by elitists.

A4: California is the largest state. Probably more smart people than anywhere else, but also more dumb people. But yeah, you can’t beat the Golden State for arrogance!

But at least we passed Prop 8!

When the tsunami hits, I may go first.

inline6: “The auto companies aren’t the banks and investment firms. They’ll handle this money far more responsibly.” Yep.

eff1Fifty:
I live in (far) Southern California, and I proudly drive a Buick!

DrFill: “No one is interested in buying the domestics anymore.” Nope.

olds307: “Problem is that GM cars last TOO long.” I’ve driven two GM cars more than 320,000 miles combined!

441Zuke: “actually get out of the sti and run off a cliff because the sti is worth more then your life.” That’s brutal!

.
steve333: The Chevy Celebrity was supposed be be a huge piece of crap, but you still see some.

-”I needed to see how much better the Japanese cars were. They weren’t. At all.” Least it didn’t cost you money to find that out. But I disagree on the Mazda3.
“American cars are not bad at all was my discovery and you may find that as well if you actually drive one.” Why let actual research get in the way of pre-conceived notions?

Need more oil for GM: “Not only will you be a complete embarrassment to your country, but you will also be looked upon as a terrorist f&ck who sold his or her country to the swine of the earth (Japan, Germany). ” I guess pdrive has found his equal.
“It is your duty as Americans to support Americans by buying GM. ”
No, it’s my duty as a family man to drive a reliable car so i can support my family. That’s why when I “drive,” I drive a Buick.

Borat: “If you want to buy worthless crap, the last places you should go are Saturn and Chevy dealers. Maybe you can go to the used lots.

planet_drive: “I would rather see Ford go bankrupt first, that would finally mean an end to horrible cars with horrible reliability.” No, you’ll still see horrible cars with horrible reliability.

Need more oil for GM: “GM has proven it can build world class vehicles…” But it hasn’t proven thet it can SELL them!

Only gold will save you … buy now.

Jack
Don’t take me literally on that
People want to buy domestics
They just don’t believe in them, and you can’t buy the faith.
It took them 20 years+ to lose, and it will take a similar amount of time to gain
GM doesn’t have 2 years
Was there any other way this story could’ve ended?
You can’t draw up a losing gameplan any better
It’s Hillary-esque!
DrFill

Good article in Business Week a couple of weeks ago about Toyota’s steps to go through this downturn. ( http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/oct2008/gb20081020_687283.htm) Sounds like to me they are very well positioned to take advantage of a “Littler and Littler 3″. They have been working for 30+ years now to improve the qualify of US suppliers that historically supplied crappy parts to GM, Ford and Chrysler. Many of them are on-site and often inside at their factories. Do you think their factories would shut down if one of them was short of cash. Duh? Toyota has $30+ billion in cash and 2 – 3 suppliers in Japan that can make the same parts.

I’d speculate that when the dust settles after the collapse of today’s “Littler and Littler 3″, we’ll have the Big 2, Toyota and Honda, Saturn/Chevy/Cadillac in GM, a smaller Ford, somebody’s pickem-up truck company and no Chrysler. If Chrysler shut it doors today almost no one would notice expect the poor folks that have worked there so long.

An intelligent post (besides mine)?
Who’d a thunk it?
DrFill

GM needs to declare Bankruptcy so they can dissolve their union contracts, unions are the problem with this nations automakers. Once the unions are gone then I’ll bet a reorganized leaner GM with some new management could come back and work its way back to the top. I know a lot of people like to slam GM for making crap products but their cars have come a long way since the 90s and are actually fairly reliable and comfortable which is amazing considering the union’s choke hold.

Buy gold … none of your ruminations mean anything, fools … the only post that matters … by the only one who posts FACT.

I have been saying this exact same thing for the past two years. People outside of work thought it was odd that a foreign automaker employee is rooting for the Big 3 to succeed. If they fail, we all fail. And only now people get concerned…freaking idiots.

^G8, Malibu, Aura, Outlook, Acadia, Traverse, Enclave, Vue, Cobalt SS, Solstice, Sky, Silverado, Sierra, Avalanche, Yukon, Tahoe, Escalade, etc. are NOT cars that people want to drive The American consumer likes reliable fuel efficient cars and that is why they buy Honda and Toyota NOT GM Ford and Chrysler
We should NOT bailout GM FoMoCo or Chrysler bc they will just go under again. They have lagged behind the Japanese in design and reliability for years and no amount of money will change that
I was on vacation and rented a Malibu. For a GM its a great effort but the interior bits and the refinement is still not that of an Accord which I have driven as well. The Malibu still needs work and what GM and the domestic humpers on here fail to realize is that GM has to be BETTER than the Japanese and they just arent trying to do that. The Malibu is unproven and the6 speed transmission had rough weird shifts I used the paddle shifter after a while.
A relative of mine rented a Cobalt and I actually liked the way it drove but once again the interior was below the quality of a Japanese car built ten years ago ! GM is done and I hope they go bankrupt and die!

I simply can’t understand how a GM bankruptcy would negatively impact rival automakers. I mean, it’s not like the rest of the industry is going to just stop building cars – and it’s not like consumers are going to stop buying cars.

Others will buy out the pieces of GM that interest them and the world will go on (I promise). No need for government intervention.

i believe this story because i used to work at a company that made parts for gm/ford/nissan/toyota and if we lose working contracts between either gm or ford, it will be enough for the company to stop work. but this problem is already happening so i don’t think its something that just started. Even though they have other jobs at the place, the contract with either one of the car companies is so large and brings so much money in, losing just one of them would cripple the place. we had a slow down of ford parts for a couple of weeks and that forced us to slow down the amount of products we shipped out. the same thing happened when we had a problem with nissan’s curtain airbags.

planet_drive needs to get a reality check

@ oilforgm.

I like your analogy of oil. Here’s why:

Cars need their oil changed. You can’t simply add more without removing the old oil. In management, such a procedure would be known as following a sunk-cost decision making process. I don’t expect you to understand that, but basically what I’m saying is that GM doesn’t just need more oil (money), they need an oil change (new products, new leadership, new market strategy)

GM needs to shrink. Their brands overlap, and their brand images are not as well defined as they should be. Why have Buick AND Cadillac? Why hasn’t GM sold HUMMER? Why do they own SAAB? Why does Saturn exist?

Bob Lutz’s pet project, the Solstice/Sky, while certainly a fun car to drive, is not the kind of change that GM needs. The change is too little, and coming too late.

Remember, capitalism without bankruptcy is like Christianity without hell. When companies are mismanaged, they should be forced to adapt or die.

Additionally, bankruptcy doesn’t mean an automaker just goes away. They continue to exist, and produce. Look at the United Airlines bankruptcy for an example of how a large, multinational corporation operates in chapter 11. So the domino argument loses some of it’s inherency, since it is predicated on the complete collapse of the Big 3.
___________

As for blaming the millions of Americans who buy imported automobiles…please, spare us the rhetoric. If people buy imports, it’s for one simple reason: They are better. Very few people buy products that they know are inferior to alternatives in the marketplace. And if you blame the media for overhyping “JapCrap” or “EuroTrash,” I would suggest that you are not a car enthusiast, or even a high school graduate. The reason that Motor Trend, Car and Driver, Road and Track, Automobile Mag, and Consumer Reports consistently pick the imported cars as the winners of their comparison tests, their choices for top picks, and their cars of the year, is that for the past decade and a bit, imports have been superior to domestics.

They have set the standard for fit and finish, fuel economy, efficient performance, chassis refinement and handling, overall build quality, and reliability. While there will be certain notable exceptions (VW’s recent reliability problems, MB’s complex cars that cannot be made reliable no matter what you do), the general trend has been established. So if you are calling the media biased, then you are calling them liars. Panel gaps are measured in millimeters (1 mm = 0.0393700787 inches, in case you have rejected the metric system as part of your America-first propaganda). Braking is measured in ft or meters. Acceleration is measured in seconds. Road-holding ability in G’s (where 1G = 9.8 meters per second squared). Steering effort and ride quality are largely qualitative, rather than quantitative, but handling tests consistently show a preference for imports. Motor Trend recently performed a quantitative analysis of handling traits, and their conclusion was that “cars…with prancing horses and propeller badges form the cream of the crop again and again” (MT 10/2008, p 98)

On the safety front, we can thank the imports for innovations in side-impact and side-curtain airbags. On the emissions front, the European Carbon Nazi’s (my informal name for the EU’s version of the EPA) has mandated cleaner running cars.

No doubt you will claim that domestic cars now have all these refinements, or are at least making strides to catch up. But the question is why? And the answer is competition. Competition in monopolistically competitive markets forces firms to differentiate their products to gain an advantage. This is due to the market principle that people are logical and will make logical decisions given the choices presented to them. While GM fanboys like NMOFGM may refuse to buy an import even if GM still made horseless carriages with oil lamps for headlights, most of the American car buying public makes logical decisions.

To summarize my argument:
Competition from import auto manufacturers has forced the Big Three to adapt to changing market conditions, and adopt manufacturing practices and performance and quality standards to maintain their competitive advantage. Therefore, were it not for the Americans that buy imports, import brands would not be able to apply the same pressure on the Big Three, and therefore, there would be less, if any need for product improvement. Driven a GEO Metro lately? If not, thank Hondayotasanbaru, and the multitude of European manufacturers for which I am too lazy to come up with a clever name. Were it not for import buyers, the American cars that NMOFGM loves so much would be a shadow of their current selves.