hey gm rules…hows clark university?

AWESOME! If its a 900hp engine.. its most likely the one that would go in the “Blue Devil”.. But whatever GM has instore with these engines.. its going to be off the hook!!! Cant wait to see the Camaro SS on the streets!!! Ford must be ****ting their pants right about now!

I forgot to add this… A 900hp Corvette for 100,000!! This would be the king of cars!!!

ford is planning to make the next mustang gt 600hp so a 900 hp SS model sounds about right to compete with a new Shebly cobra mustang assuming it should be at least 800 hp if the new gt is 600 hp

I doubt that Ford would make the GT at 600hp! when the current COBRA is only at 500hp.. this seems a little farfetched to me… People want affordable performance .. a 600hp GT would cost too much to be at the price range its at today…

Unless Ford is planning another more affordable V8 uneder the GT model… Either way.. I would much rather have the Camaro!

TO GMrules,

You think GM is so cool, well do you drive a GM?
Hey I tracked you down, you live in Vancouver, WA and you go to clark college, and you use the downstairs comupter in the library to response. Don’t talk smack bro.
GM and that camaro suck!!!

LOL, clark college!!! GMrules goes to special education classes cuz all normal college classes are too advanced for him. Cuz his idiotic brain is filled with impressions of GM success (ya right, GM is tanking as we speak) with no room left in his brain to learn important stuff in college!

Betcha he’s gonna run home (like forrest gump) to his momma and tell her that all LNN posters are being too mean to him. LOL

Where is GMrules? This story is GM related. See!! He’s HIDING!!! crying on his momma’s shoulder!

Maybe he understanded that he should stop loving GM a little bit!

GMrules … you are truly a pathetic loooooser … whether you really mean/beleive what you say or whether you’re just trying to be an idiot at the forum

Pitty, all of this bashing….. nothing constructive.

The Camaro is a step in the right direction for GM, no matter what you guys say. And a 900bhp corvette for under $100,000? I’d buy one. Granted I’d put a roll cage in it….

Not the point really.

GM is late to the party with the camaro, but it’s better late than never. If GM can get out of there SUV and quality rut, they will survive.

Everyone bashes GM for making “gas guzzlers” with “****ty plastic interiors”. You know what, there right. There interiors are very plasticy. Guess what? So is the interior of every Toyota (or Lexus for that matter) car I’ve ever been in.

Since everyone bashes GM, I’m going to go on a Jap bash….

One of my friends buys a Lexus IS350 loaded about two months back. I own a BMW X5 4.8is. Comparing notes, his car is about 1.5 seconds quicker to 60 (I weight 1500lbs more), it gets 1 MORE MILE PER GALLON than me, and his interior is not anywhere near as nice as mine. Not even close. Everything is plastic and feels like crap. Everything.

In all fairness, though, I’ll give props to Honda. For the price, they are incredible, and they deserve to succeed.

It just pisses me off that everyone thinks that “Oh, it’s GM, let’s piss on it!” and “Oh, it’s Jap/German, it must be infalible and superior.”

#12 u agree with you 100%! And i dont get it this isnt a blog called bash on GMrules… come on people get a life!! stick to the topic!

The camaro will release in 2009 with a plasticky interior, 17″ wheels, 18″s optional, and an LS2 as top of the line motor. What’s more, is about 60% of the ones on the road will be V6’s. Meanwhile, a 425hp challenger will be built 45 mins away from me (Brampton) in less than 2 years. Thats what is most likely to happen. You people expect way too much from a company that never really comes though… Give it up. Americans still love GM for a reason I will never know.

The Corvette is an exception. Its the one car that GM does right. But why would it need 700+ horsepower? I would much rather see a better interior, more refinments, and a cleaner lower fron bumper(the black mesh on the front air dam looks like something from Home Depot). If you really ned that much power from a vette, go to Ligenfelter Performance Engineering.

THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT

#12 Justin, we all are trying to stick with the topics on all LNN stories, but some moron, namely infamous GMrules, makes stupid blogs about GM and their “success” which they are not related to all stories on LNN. Thats why somebody tracked him down and we’re bashing on GMrules to scare him out and we can resume to making blogs related to LNN stories. It’ll take a while. Bear with us.

i meant #13 justin

Your’e all a bunch of pussies. How old are you guys? 10. LOL!

There will NOT be a 900hp Camaro or a 500HP Camaro. Wishful thinking.

There will not be a 900HP Camaro, nor a 500HP Camaro. Wishful thinking.

#11 GMrules is a dumbass he says dumb stuff like how Buick is better than Mercedes and crap like that if u knew him u would see why we dont like him. also we are not saying GM sucks. sometimes theyre good sometimes bad but GMrules says pointless crap and always ruins the blogs. while us car enthusiasts are trying to talk about something he messes it up.

oops i meant #12

The bigger the motor = GM’s moto.

Let’s see, what will be the cheapest rattletrap that this big honkin hunk of iron will be strapped to this round of Camaro?

I’ll go for the Challenger in this segment thanks.

Your going to scare GMrules out of a forum? Give me a break, you guys are just as immature as him! I just ignore him, but you guys are so “tough” that you are going to go to Clark College and find him and kick his ass because of his comments here? Give me a break.

P.S. The Camaro will own the Mustang and Challenger.

# 24.. Derek… I think your right.. the Camaro is gonna blow the Stang and Challenger off the road!

The Camaro will be an awsome car, I’m excited for the launch and hope to get one. I drive GM products, I like ‘em, they’re reliable, a good value and the quality is very good. I just purchased a new GMC Envoy XL for my wife today, pick it up tomorrow. This will be my 8th new GM in the past 9 years. Five of these cars are still n the family, I lost 2 to rookie teenage driver’s (you don’t even wanna know what my premiums are !!), however, in both cases, they walked away without so much as a scratch while the car’s were totalled !!
I have not been disappointed by GM cars, trucks or SUV’s yet, or the Dealer service, it has been top notch. I’m not saying other automakers don’t build fine cars too, all I’m saying is my personal experience with GM has been very good. I’ve owned or leased Fords, Chrysler’s, Dodge’s, Mitsiu’s and Honda’s, I have just come to prefer GM products. The GM bashing in LLN is really silly and obviously biased from folks who know nothing about GM or their products.

Nicley said #26!

HA HA HA HA HA!

gas guzzlers are for morons and rich wasteful people. those are the people who will buy this car once gas reaches $5/gallon

Yeah! Way to go V V!!

V V, you are the master!

Can anybody answer me this question:

Why do american engines need such a high displacement value? Nearly every high performance engine that Ford or GM come up with is always with a high displacement. How come BMW can make an engine that is NA and gets 500HP and with only 5L but it takes an engine over 6L to match that if it was engineered in the USA.
Doesn’t it show more engineering excellence if you can make a car go much faster using as little displacement and I’m only talking of Naturally Aspirated engines.
What gives?

“Doesn’t it show more engineering excellence if you can make a car go much faster using as little displacement and I’m only talking of Naturally Aspirated engines.
What gives?”

What gives is a lack of american engineering excellence, as you so eloquently put it.

american engines have HIGH top end power and loads of torque thats why a 400 hp stock vette can burn some rice burner at the track that has 600 hp on a smaller engine its all about the powe rcurve sure on the street the jap car will win but on an actual track or drag the american will take it and thats where it really matters

so are you saying that an engine that gives out more torque is due to it having a high fuel displacement?
Is this true?
What exactly gives the torque output in the engine, I thought it was something to do with the way the cams are … ie SOHC vs. DOHC since MB was using SOHC in their engines (in the past) it was generating a lot of torque but it was not doing it at a high displacement.

From my understanding, more displacement gives more low end torque. Also, a bit of that topic, does anybody but me think 900hp is a bit overkill for a corvette? Who’s gonna buy that? I, personally, think 900hp is a bit extreme. I also think that 600hp for a GT Mustang is out of the question (for whoever mentioned that earlier). I highly doubt we’ll see much, if anything, with over 700hp from any US automakers. Don’t get me wrong though, I love American muscle, I just think there’s a lot of wishful thinking.

“Why do american engines need such a high displacement value? Nearly every high performance engine that Ford or GM come up with is always with a high displacement. How come BMW can make an engine that is NA and gets 500HP and with only 5L but it takes an engine over 6L to match that if it was engineered in the USA.”

the 5.0L that BMW uses that gets 500hp is a V10 with a 8000+ redline. the V8 that they previously used (S62) got 400hp with a 7000 redline.

i assume the 6.0L US engine you refer to is the LS2. a V8.

comparing a V10 to a V8 seems sort of random… V8 vs. V8 first…

the BMW S62 (previous M5 / Z8) gets 400hp from 5.0L with peak HP at 6600 rpm and 369ft/lb at 3800 rpm. the engine weighs 527lbs.

now with that engine in a Z8 (no sense comparing the bloaty M5 sedan to a Corvette) … you have a 3,495lb curb weight and 13/21 MPG.

moving on :

the LS2 gets 400hp from 6.0L with peak HP at 6000 rpm and 400ft/lb at 4400 rpm. the engine weighs 450lbs.

now with an LS2 in a Corvette… you have a 3,116lb curb weight and 19/28 MPG.

so a better question might be why the high-tech / superior BMW engine weighs more… is physically larger… and gets absolutely atrocious gas mileage in a roughly similarly weighted vehicle … all while making less power compared to the horribly engineered GM engine. both have similar performance.

just for fun… let’s compare the newer ones…

BMW V10
500hp at 7750rpm
383lbft at 6100rpm
4999cc
528lb dry weight

LS7 V8
505hp at 6300rpm
470lb/ft at 4800rpm
7000cc
458lb dry weight

sure it’s 7.0L… compared to 5.0L … and a V8 vs. a V10 but it’s considerably smaller. and gets better mileage all while offering similar performance at a cheaper price.

i guess i’m missing this supposed “lack of engineering excellence” … as if displacement/hp ratio is the be-all and end-all of engineering comparisions. HP/L is the most bench-racerist method of comparison there ever was. and tells you exactly nothing. right up there with 0-60.

oh yeah. and pushrods? they’re actually a *newer* technology than overhead cam. just FYI.

…and i actually don’t even like GM that much honestly. i just hate myopic ill-informed viewpoints and “facts” even less.

How about comparing two v-8 engines with the same displacement? One OHV and another DOHC and see which engine trumps the other in power and then we will talk.

I think that GM will put a GM engine in the Camaro, but don’t quote me on that.
=)

Torque has a lot to do with how far the pistons have to travel. Short travel, high torque. Long travel, high horsepower.

A modern camaro with 900hp?! GM must have been burning the midnight oil because they are coming up with some real plans now. This new Camaro is in the muscle car class once again, unlike the previous model. The previous model left off where the corvette began, so Chevy was never able to juice it up. Now that the Camaro is once again a straight line drag car, cram the biggest baddest engine in their and it will never compete with the vette.

It’s a free country to think what you want and buy what you want, now that being said what was the last time you went to classic auto show and an import brought out any nostalgia for you, even from model years you weren’t around for. There’s no reason we should not be able make constructive arguments not sand lot brawls from either side. I’ve owned both import and domestic and I can tell you I’d care less in seeing my old Honda accord model years from now in a show, that’s not to say they don‘t make good cars. As for the Camaro engine anything could be possible in limited runs, I do wish GM would only stick to V8’s in it but that’s not my decision, just my hopes.

You guys should be ashamed; none of you know how torque/power is made in an internal combustion engine?I guess it makes sense, because most of you guys are into imports

This is an enthusiast site, but at least you admit you don’t know, where most of the uniformed on this site just simply make up stuff and post it. That really pisses me off

i doubt GM will put a 900hp engine in a Camaro let alone the Corvette. Maybe that engine is for the C6R race car or some other prototype kinda car? a 650hp corvette is totaly possible and seems likly. but i dont think they will put that into the Camaro as to take sales away from the Corvette. I dont think the Chalenger is as competor, the 6.1l Hemi only has 425hp and i havnt heard any plans to put the Viper v10 in there. the Mustang will be dated by the time the Camaro makes it to the road, and there is no way they can redesign it and have the same impact asn the current one. Hopefully for the sake of GM they have a big hit on there hands. My line up for the camaro is as follows ~$20k V6 240hp, $27k V8 325hp , $35k V8 400hp; $43k V8 500hp. Droptop versions for each. Lots of classic color/sticker combos.

as for the technology VS displacment debate…Porsche is making 425hp from a 3.6l flat six with NO turbos. where does that fit into your puzzle?

Seeing the numbers, I highly doubt it will make production since emissions are hard to press for this size motor.

Why? Dodge is currently trying to massage the latest 8.4-liter 700-HP for federal emissions.

Kudos to the muscle car treo – GM, Ford, & Chrysler for bringing back the muscle heritage vice the weak pathetic gas savers.

Uh oh. James is pissed. Enlighten us James, share with us your vast techincal knowledge on TORQUE.

Whats all this curb weight bull**** you keep talking about #38
I didn’t mention any particular car, I’m just talking engines and what they give off at the crank.
You comparing V8 and V10 is not the question here.
I know that there are many factors that can reduce horse power at the wheels like curb weight, tranny loss etc.
Question is why American Engines need more fuel to reach a target HP as compared to their foregin equivalent. Throw away factors of millage, price, pure enginerreing point of view.

Maybe because gas in the US(besides the oil-producing countries) is cheaper than everywhere else and is sold in gallons not liters. So when they are designing engines with high power, the bigger displacement is the simplest route to it.

And you know what, that could be tru, if they knew that people don’t want engines that are conservative of fuel they wouldn’t give them high displacement. I do believe that the US companies CAN make an engine get more power from little fuel but choose not to do so cuz they are just intrested in the overall result… getting the hp goal that they want and it is SOO MUCH EASIER by just making an engine with a high displacement so they can get it out of the door and make more money ASAP instead of trying to refine the engine so it can be magnificant and do so while getting as much from a liter of fuel as possible. This is one of the reasons i give so much credit to companies who can pull it off without resorting to anytype of forced induction tecqniques because it just feels like cheating. AGAIN, i’m only talking about engines here, no mention of any type or kind of car.

I know anyone has the right to buy what they want and I’m not saying forced induction cars are a piece but like # 45 mentioned, don’t u guys look in awe at a company that can get that amount of performace from small displacement and not have to resort to forced induction? And this has nothing to do with the amount of cylinders being imployed or the structure (V, FLAT OR INLINE) of the engine. I believe its all about how you engineer it.

Case in point BMW M3 Inline6 produces 333HP out of a 3.2L but if #45 is right, look at what porsche is doing, getting more HP and using less displacement (regardless of it being a flat 6) now that is a MASTERPIECE.

#44…VERY WELL PUT…There will be NO 900hp camaro,..c’mon guys that just sounds redundant..650hp MAYBE..noway 900,..think of reliability issues, insurance purposes..if it had 900horses it would be a straight drag car, not an everyday mustang beater!

oh and my lineup is as follows,..$24k v-6,..$33k v-8…$42k SS

with the SS having 500hp,..not 900hp

You have it backwards Piablo. Long stroke (not travel), more torque and higher piston speeds. Short stroke, less torque and slower piston speeds. That is partly how you can wind a shorter stroke motor higher. The Camaro rocks! We should all be happy that the industry (not just your favorite brand) is willing and able to produce these types of cars. Remember 1980 anyone? I don’t really care to. They ALL sucked. So, lets stop the childish BS and get back to civilized conversation.

Great post #45. I love how all the GM-lovers have no response to that.

Track ME down?

Proxy, Proxy, Proxy

Their are still fun ways to find you nub.

First of all — Honestly GMRules, i’m not a car or mechanical genius. I have however, read enough Consumer Reports to know that your posts on LLN reveal that you’re talking out of your ass.

Secondly — I could social engineer the **** out of you. So leave the boards before something bad happens to your computer. Real bad.

Jimbo, if you’re relying on Consumer Reports as your source, you’re in sorry shape my Friend.

Fn 10 year olds.

well i no this is supposed to be about the camaro, but did any of the gm haters consider that the chevy trucks can out tow dodge and ford with 650 ft. lbs. of torque, or that the corvette Z06 is uncatchable on the track with the fordgt and viper in its rear view mirror. I suggest that the gmbashers do some research. and quick, before gm delivers another dodge and ford ass kicker, and then they r still unnoticed.

most of you seem to think displacment=size. theres a picture floting around of a 4.6 ford mod moter next to a 5.0. The ohc mod moter is much biger than the 5.0 ohv engian. the head on any ohc engions is as tall as the block! a 5.0 m5 engion wouldn’t even fit in a vet, phisicly its much biger than an ls2/ls7. the only real way to compare an ohv and ohc engion is to throgh a fully dressed example of each in a tank of water and see which engion has the best waterdisplacment/hp ratio. i bet that 900hp 8.3 liters engion will be the smallest Naturaly asperated engion to produce that much power.

actually the halltech corvette produces 1300hp out of a pushrod v8

Seriously, anyone who will agure hp per liter doesn’t know a whole lot. All that stat is good for is getting a rough idea of how the power band will look. Like the 2ZZGE is a great motor and it produces 100hp/liter, but the power is practically unusable and most people never get to use it properly with its funky lift mechanism that eventually fails cuz the lifter bolts go bad after a while. And it’s annoying when people compare the M5 motor to the LS7. LS7 is a track car motor, the M5 is the power with “refinement” I mean honestly when it comes to performance what are you looking for? The M5 motor weighs more, is more complicated, probably more likely to have something go wrong, is physically larger so weight ratios and CG take more effort to correct, has less torque, and will likely eat more gas since it will need to rev higher. For what? It’s all for an image, sound and feel. That’s what the M5 motor is, it’s to be powerful but “refined.” So people please stop comparing apples to oranges. If you want to bash motor to motor a better line up is the LS7 to the Viper’s motor. Dodge should really open that motor up already, let it have at least +10hp over the torque figure since we all know that motor with some modding can easily hit 600hp. And if you don’t believe me about CG and weight distribution ask yourself why do the GT500 supra use 4.5L V8s instead of turbo 1JZs or 2JZs? Or why have the RB motors been ditched for larger VQs? Especially since the HP cap was removed from Japan they all are bumping up the displacement. And if anyone brings up ferrari motors, yes they are friggin awsome, but they are probably the most unreliable motor and a tune up on them is a fortune. Ever hear a 15 year old ferrari? They sound so out of tune. It’s like the ducaties a lot of people don’t like them since they are very high maintance motors.

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