So if there is 5 dealers in each state (probably more in states like Cali, NY, Fla, less in the MW states), then each dealer sold 10 cars per month. Then factor out fleet sales.

Keep up the optimism I guess.”

Illinois has a huge Saab market. I’d say a huge portion of those sales are in this part of the Midwest. I live in the North Shore(Chicago Suburbs) and Saab is really popular here as are most other European cars. There are eight dealerships nearby. I see them everyday, the redesigned 9-3’s are coming around too, I see a lot more now than I did at the beginning of summer. I can see why inline6 is optimistic about the brand.

And, Sick of GM, I see a lot of hype on what GM is up against. And it’s not my aim to downplay the pressures and struggles. But I don’t think they’re anywhere near on the ropes. They’ve got enough cash, enough talent, more than enough exciting, new metal coming in the next 2 years, they’re leading in research on Li-Ion and hydrogen tech, the union concessions kick in in 2010, and they currently offer the most fuel-efficient line of trucks and SUVs (if you don’t count Hummer) of anyone in the market.

So while a down economy (at the moment), skyrocketing material costs, high oil prices, and massive issues with CAFE and safety regs loom large now, I think GM’s got the money, the talent, and the global product portfolio to weather this AND provide Saab a new line of cars.

And, I’ll remind you again, worldwide, Saab sales are at record highs. You and I can agree to disagree, but I see things to be optimistic about.

Because GM is strapped for cash, and burning through it fast. Outside of Cadillac and Chevy, all of GM’s brands are losing ground.
Look at Pontiac, they have the G8 and the Solstice.

Look at Buick, outside of the success in China, the only hot selling product they have is the Enclave (I had one actually).

Look at Saturn, they have a completely fresh lineup and between quality and reliability problems, and the pumped up “take it or leave it” prices, the brand is still tanking.

GMC sells nothing but trucks, a profile that doesn’t look too promising in the days of $4 – 5 gas. Sales are down

Hummer is gone, thankfully

Even Chevy and Cadillac are just getting by. Most of that can be contributed to the falling truck sales, but that is where GM gets its profits from. But even the STS has never really taken off in sales, the DTS is heavily fleeted and the SRX tanked the day it rolled off the lots. And on the Chevy side, the Impala, Malibu, Cobalt all see heavy fleet sales and other than the Vette, the rest is SUV’s and trucks. Even the Aveo, a car the GM desperately needs right now is bottom of the class in both fuel economy, and especially safety and needs a complete overhaul.

Now, I know GM is reducing fleet sales and I appluad that but look at the holes here. Look at the amount of models that are either severely lacking, or just plain lame ducks on the market. Balance that with 20+ trucks and SUV’s and things are beyond ugly. I just don’t think that Saab is, or should be even close on the priority list. I’m not going to criticize you for sticking by them as a loyal fan (And we have them here too, that’s for certain) but all the effort that you’re saying is going to take place over the next 18 months just seems impossible given GM’s current situation. I honestly hope that this isn’t a case of throwing good money after bad, that’s all.

http://www.automotive-fleet.com/Statistics/StatsViewer.aspx?file=http%3a%2f%2fwww.automotive-fleet.com%2ffc_resources%2fstats%2fAFFB-cht-car-LT-reg.pdf&channel=

The numbers are small, but they do get fleeted. I’ve rented two of them whan my old Acura got rear-ended and was in for 2 months to repair the damage. A 9-3 and a 9-5 wagon.

The 9-5 had would sieze a cylinder when parked overnight causing a nasty screech and a puff of smoke on startup. The 9-3 had an electrical panel that would go dead in the rain and then flicker back on when it dried out. My Oldsmobile back in the 80’s did that sort of stuff. Did drive pretty nicely but the Automatic was slipping on it but I couldn’t fault the car as it was probably beaten on by former renters.

2) You as yet have been unable to supply ANY statistics that show that ANY Saab has been flogged off to a fleet. The last time we brought Saab and fleet sales up, you linked to an article about 2007 models, and Saab wasn’t even on the list!

3) There aren’t a whole lot of independent Saab dealers (there is one in Portland, because they sell well here) in the country. But if it weren’t a profitable enterprise, dealers wouldn’t be into them at all.

4) Saab is about to completely reinvent its entire lineup. The 9-3 was reskinned to great results, and with the new 9-5, 9-4x, and upcoming 9-1, why shouldn’t I be optimistic?

So if there is 5 dealers in each state (probably more in states like Cali, NY, Fla, less in the MW states), then each dealer sold 10 cars per month. Then factor out fleet sales.

Keep up the optimism I guess.

Saab is in no danger of death, folks. With one significantly updated car this year, and 3 all-new ones coming down the pike in the next 18 months, the future looks long for Saab.

Will be back there in August, I’ll look for all those 9-3’s

As far as responding to your questions, I’ll have to get back to you, I’ve got meetings to go to.

How about it’s not true? I don’t know the dates, but I can tell you pretty solidly that Honda did not have a 3/36 warranty until the 80s. Interestingly, because of a poor quality perception, IIRC…

I’m in the other bastion of Saab sales, the Pacific Northwest. There’s one on every corner here in Portland.

The 9-3 dates to 2003, but so what? So what if it shares a platform with the Malibu and G6? Does it handle well? Yes. Is it safe? It’s the safest. Is it fun to drive? Absolutely. So, what’s the problem with platform sharing if it’s a good platform? Also, can you tell me which of the 9-3’s parts are interchangeable with the Malibu and G6? They don’t share the same wheelbase, track, overall length, etc. They are very loosely based on one another. And the 2008 refresh has added punch to the lineup that wasn’t there previously. I think the 9-3 is a damn good car. Is it in the league of the 3-Series in all respects? No, but it’s also priced the same as the 1-Series. What platform would you have recommended GM base the 9-3 on? Its own unique platform? Saab ran out of money for a reason in ‘89, and they’ve been the most stable they’ve ever been under GM, even if GM hasn’t had a clue how to manage it. Saab sales worldwide are at record levels, in fact.

And FYI, the 9-5 is in its 10th season on the market, as it was introduced for the 1999 model year. Its underpinnings are actually based on the old Saab 9000 and last-gen Vectra. Yes, the car is old. Yes, it isn’t competitive anymore. Which is why a new one’s coming in 18 mos.

The 9-7x and 9-2x were failures, and embarrassing ones at that. But take a look at what Saab’s got coming: a new 9-5, a 9-1, and a new 9-4x that looks excellent. And the current 9-3 is an excellent vehicle with its updates and new technology.

So just as you pan the General for past mistakes, give credit where its due. A warranty cutback won’t kill the company. It may not bode well for how reliable they are now, but I hope that GM takes this as a cue to improve this aspect of their vehicles.

9-3? Goes back to 2003 and shares the same underpinnings as rental cars like the pontiac G6 and Malibu.

9-5? In it’s 8th model year

“The B235-based 9-5 models have suffered an abnormally high rate of engine failures due to engine oil sludge. This primarily affected the 1999-2002 models. SAAB refined the engine’s positive crankcase ventilation system (PCV) for the 2003 and later model years, virtually alleviating the problem.”

9-7x – Trailblazer clone, one of 6.

9-2x – Failed Subaru clone

inline6, you have much more optimism for this brand than anyone I’ve talked with. Even my Saab fanatics up here in New England (basically Saabs last stand in the U.S. market) have admitted the cars and the brand are hopeless. So, if there is going to be some kind of huge renaissance coming in the future, I have serious doubts GM can cough up the cash to afford it. Saab hasn’t made a dime for GM so why should they pump anymore money into it? They need a whole new lineup within 2 years tops, if they’re going to have even slightest chance at a future. GM best option would be to sell it while it has some clout in Europe.

Warranty costs on Saabs are huge. I know first hand as my SIL 9-3 conv. just had it’s top replaced to the tune of 2500 bucks. It has been a problematic POS as well and should have been dumped at the start of the Springtime, now it’s pretty much fall so she’s stuck with it until next Spring. Oh and has roughly 62k on it (2003 model)

Saab is about to double its product portfolio with all-new models, and has significantly reworked its 9-3, with slick new styling, fuel-efficient engines, the best saefty on record, and the company offers XWD, which has been nothing but acclaimed by the press.

Could GM have been doing better by the Saab division? Absolutely. But the mistakes of the past are being corrected now.

I’m only asking because when they came out with it 1115 said it was because they had to, they build junk.

So which is it?

Saab is a dead brand walking…
no, limping…
with a bullet in the leg…
walking through a land mine