Does anyone realize that Bankruptcy DOES NOT mean an end to GM. Its just a way for them to restructure—think airlines. After filing Ch. 11, they will be back on their feet within a week AND they will rehire almost all the workers that were fired but at lesser salaries. The workers wont have a choice in this, theyll just have to face the music i.e. accept lower salaries or be unemployed.

For sure, this will totally DESTROY the economy for next year, but if the BIG 3 receive a loan from the government AFTER shedding this extra baggage to develop fuel efficient cars it would be much much better and we will see some of their fuel efficient cars start trickling in from 2010 onwards.

Think about it, GM is just avoiding Ch. 11 because its such a taboo subject and because theyre shares will be completely devalued and the top management will be fired with almost a nil chance of coming back. They obviously donot want this but it is necessary for the company to restructure to get in line with the times.

So if the domestics failing means the imports failing, who will build the cars that America needs? I doubt these manufacturers will disappear, they will be transferred to another owner who will build cars to satisfy US demand, unless there is none, in which case there is surely no saving these companies.

Jobs will be lost, as in almost every industry, and hopefully the Big Three will become smaller, and will be bought by companies with better management and then maybe in the future the US will build cars that appeal to buyers with other motives than blind patriotism.

The outsourcing, importing of foreign goods and investing in foreign companies is the biggest culprit.

YOUR WIFE IS A LOSER

1, Who made the video…………GM
2, Who is in the video ………former Union Members
3, They are saying $25 Billion now or $150 Plus Billion later…it sounds like a gun to our heads…
4, Why did they wait so long to “SAY” something…….
5, Is there any guarantee this will work?

My best friends dad was a “Teamster” one of the most influential Unions in the U.S., His back want out, on the job, the had 2 years before retirement, this was 3 years ago, to this day he has yet to see any of the “promises” that the union gave him. The union was the one the opposed a early retirement so he can keep his medical benefits, they are the one’s postponing the operation he needs, and if he gets it on his own, they told him he will be on his own, this is a man that has worked hard for the past 30+ years and he is at the age to just sit back and finally enjoy life, I ask any of you if that was your dad how will you fill, my buddy makes good money and he is supporting his house and his parents house, and trust me there has been time I have helped him out as well….

The concept of a union is not bad, not at all, but when bad politics and red tape affect the people it is there to help…. how can they ask us to trust them, when they fail to take care of there own, that is why I oppose that the unions have any say in this bailout, it is not right!, $25 Billion now or $150 Plus Billion later, that is extortion! And shame on “GM” to go along with the unions in making this video, saying they are doing it for the worker, how about the big heads cap theirs salaries, turn down all exec. bonuses, and retool there plants, if Ford can do why not them, and ya they are also asking for the bail-out,but they are not the one’s putting a gun to our heads…

Does GM make the case? See the video below:

DrFill: “And this downturn may last another year
2 years?
Then what?”
Good quastion.

Raf: “I’m sick of all the people saying how crappy the quality of American vehicles is.”
Yeah, some still think it’s 1987.

I had problems with every part of my honda except the door handles.

“Chevy trucks are the longest lasting on the road.”
You forgote the disclaimer (”Excludes other GM divisions”)

DrFill: “Now try and get a Camry owner out of a Camry.”
That’s a hard task, but it has happened before. GM’s problem is that if a Camry owner gets out of a Camry, he usually gets into an Accord.

“The domestics taught this generation of buyer that they make crap,” Uh, no. This generation grew up riding in crap, then hit driving/car-buying age, and still equated USA with “crap.”

HalGameGuru: “We need manufacturing for the same reason we need teachers and police; it’s those square holes for the square pegs that keep people working earning and out of trouble.”
Good way of putting it.

“The vehicles they produce are on par with any else in the world,” in some cases, yes.

krautninja: “they spent so much time makin crap product that public perception has been set.” How to change that perception?

global_lightning: ” if the government does bail out GM, there needs to be some real structural changes.” Agreed.

DrFill: The focus is among the top 4 compacts available.

Lionwithoutpride: ”
Toyota and Honda did take years off or my family would not have stopped buying them.”
Same here.
mayer_ray_nagin: “the SEC needs to create new regulations that promote a longer-term managerial focus rather than just on the quarterly numbers.” Right. Wall Street has messed up a few industries.

Mad_Jasper: 500 is not head and shoulders above that V6/FWD thing they call an Impala. 500 is irrelevant.

DrFill: the only truck better than the F-150 is the Silverado/Sierra, and that’s marginally better.

“I’ve worked at Ford and Toyota.” That would explain ….

A4: “The camry is junk.” STRAIGHT GOSPEL!

“I’d rather drive a RWD charger with some power behind it than a camry.” I’d rather drive a Charger than just about ANY common man’s sedan.

mayer_ray_nagin: the 2009 “TL” ain’t anybody’s Buick, but it’s your metrosexual cousin’s accord.

DrFill: L—s is NOT a luxury car maker, and the rebadged highlander/Camry wagon is not a1 luxury vehicle

lamboz get a life: “who builds the military equipment in a time of a WW3 scienaro?” Nobody. We get colonized.

“Can’t wait for the presidential Avalon limo, Accord police cruisers, All Camry NASCAR racing …”
The day the Accord becomes a cop car is the day the rooks take over. Nah, the new accord is actually pretty good.

RaineMan: The U.S. economy has been driven by the service sector for years.

Need more oil for GM: get counseling.

Your numbers arent even correct. So now you are saying that sales dont count but sales per dealer do? Wow, thats a stretch. Show me where anyone keeps monthly or yearly tallies of sales per outlet. Only total sales count and GM is STILL outselling Toyota to this day in spite of all the bad things that have happened. That flies in the face of your ignorant rants about “nobody” buying domestic anymore. You cant be as stupid as you pretend to be.

“Toyota Tundra took 200k sales right out of Ford showrooms!”

That was in 2007. Tundra sales have collapsed this year and that vehicle is getting crushed by the Silverado and F150 in sales. Edge outsold Highlander last year. Impala has outsold Accord and Altima for the last few months and Impala outsold Altima for the year in 2006 or 2007.

Toyota’s sales decline is the largest of all the major Asian automakers. Lexus is down a good 15-20% on the year. Scion is falling off the sales charts as well. Camry and Corolla are selling OK- thats it. Toyota has reduced its profit forecast by 70% or so and may eke out a few billion in profits after recording $15B or so in past years. Toyota has idled plants in the south and has workers doing community service since their products are no longer needed. Now Toyota is postponing its MS factory due to sluggish sales. I wouldnt be surprised if Toyota doesnt build another plant in the US.

As I said- why havent Toyota and others come out forcefully agaisnt this plan if they dont think its essential to their operations? Simple answer: they know suppliers will go under and they will be in trouble.

And it’s not the 1% of the economy dropping that’s causing panic, it’s the media hype of that 1% that’s causing panic. I’ve often said (not here, though), that if the news all over the country started saying that the stock market was going to crash, the traders would stop trading and the stock market would crash. Seems to me like it’s happening, because when the media says, “We are in a terrible economic position, and things are going to go real bad,” everyone panics and things get bad. We media aren’t responsible for the actual problems, but we are responsible for the aftermath of the original problems, which is the refusal to invest in the market or invest in homes since there is no apparent value. There is, though, but certain people don’t want you to know for whatever reason. If we said “Frell you!” to the news people, and we started moving the money out of our own confidence, most of this would stop. But the ones that have the most money are the ones that are the most frightened.

I hope all of you get taxed to kingdom come just pay for your mistakes of not supporting your brothers an families at GM.

This is America and GM is your vehicle. Buy GM or die

Do you really need to be reminded that Toyota and Honda have been heavily advantaged by their own country’s protectionist measures? Do you have to be reminded that Toyota and Honda only built plants in the U.S. to get around import duties that were too low to begin with? And let us not forget that in building those plants, Toyota and Honda got massive tax breaks. The playing field has not been level during the 20-30 years in which Toyota and Honda have made their biggest inroads into the U.S. market.

As has been noted, the labor unions have made a number of concessions that will take huge burdens off the big three. That was accomplished by some good leadership at the big three and the level-headed union heads. Yet, the leveling of the playing field in terms of labor will not even begin to take effect until a couple of years from now and the domestics will not last that long, so they need bridge loans.

You say you want the domestics to start making better vehicles. They are doing that right now. The fusion and malibu are the two most oft-cited and currently produced vehicles that bring the domestics AT LEAST into parity with the foreign marks (if you do not believe me, I suggest you think back on Leftlane’s own reviews of the vehicles). And we know that GM is working hard on the Volt and it has been called their number one priority. That is probably the best evidence of a domestic looking into the future. So, while we all resent executive pay, the leaders of the domestics are slowing turning around some very cumbersome ships. Those leaders have improved the products AND won concessions from the UAW. What more evidence does one need that the domestics are NOT being mismanaged? Is everything perfect? No! However, if everything at Toyota was perfect, then Toyota would not be down 10% this year.

The domestics have spent the time and effort to fix their major problems and are finally in a position where they can start fine-tuning themselves, but they have been sand-bagged by economic conditions that are beyond their control. So have Toyota and Honda. If the executives at Toyota can admit that the Big 3 failing will be very harmful to more than just the domestics then why cannot you? How about if we all admit that Toyota and Honda have won the current round of competition? I am willing to do that if it leads to a bailout that will allow there to even be a next round.

Leftlane has written pretty extensively and clearly about how the failure of the U.S. domestics will cripple the import companies as well, but many readers refuse to believe it. My only suggestion then is to go and google remarks by Toyota execs that buttress what the Leftlane writers have said. Heck, those Toyota execs were even saying it two or more years ago in the NYT’s Magazine cover-piece on Toyota’s dominance. If readers do not even believe the Toyota execs as to the dangers of U.S. auto companies declining then I do not see how so many of the same readers can praise those same executives for their brilliant forward-thinking. A lot of the experts in the auto industry, be they auto writers or company officials (both domestic and import), are saying the Big 3 must not be allowed to fail because it will destroy the sub-industries that undergird the auto-industry as a whole. How about we listen to the experts on this one and stop acting like some companies are infallible and insulated from external dangers?

Sj
Toyota down 10%
After they set sales records the previous 12 years?
GM/Ford outsells Toyota every year
Is that some kind of accomplishment? They are a US maker with almost 4000 dealers!
Toyota Tundra took 200k sales right out of Ford showrooms!
Camry is the best selling car for 9 out of ten years
Lexus #1 luxury car maker
Lexus RX #1 luxury vehicle
Corolla #1 all-time
All on foreign turf
Why don’t you give the domestics a cookie and rock them in their snuggly until they stop crying and go to sleep (permanently)!
DrFill

These numbers arent made up by GM. They are legit. Taxpayers will pay one way or another. What you are saying is that you would rather pay up AND have these companies go out of business. That is just stupid.

Chap 11 is a no go. No one will buy cars from a company in Chap 11 and that will lead to collapse. The UAW has already made the concessions that idiots on here are demanding. The hard work has already been done on that front.

“Honda and Toyotas YTY totals are down a blip”

Thats a lie, Toyotas sales are down over 10% on the year.

“Not only did they build monkey crap, but they didn’t reinvest in their business.”

Another lie. GM and Ford have more 6 speeds than Toyota. GM uses direct injection more than Toyota. GM is the only auto company with two hybrid systems and GM has more hybrids than Honda and Nissan combined. Stop lying.

“You can ignore the sales records”

You are right. Every single year that Toyota has been sold in the US market it has been outsold by GM. To this day Ford is still selling more vehicles in the US than every import automaker except Toyota. The sales numbers dont lie. In spite of the rise in gas prices and the economy the Big 3 still control 45% of the market. The other 7 major players control 55% of the market. How do you come to the conclusion that no one buys any domestic branded vehicles anymore? You post no facts, just generalizations.

Must have because I haven’t seen an article glow about any of their new products in years. I’ve seen comments like “reliably mundane” and “the 2009 TL is not your father’s Buick, but it could be yours” but I have not seen anyone but fanboys “glow” about much of anything from Honda or Toyota in years.

DrFill is full of it, as usual.

Like Paul Sorvino in Goodfellas
Give them some money (whatever you have handy), and turn your back on them.
DrFill

Leon
So you think your experience is common?
I’ve owned Ford Probe GT vs Acura Integra
I’m not even gonna get into it
I’ve worked at Ford and Toyota
And the people have made their choice
DrFill

The F150 has been the best seling pickup for, what now, 31 years? You may not like it, but the American consumer does. You may not like Ford at all, but that doesn’t change the fact that the Fusion is popular and has been praised for it’s reliabilty and high resale value.

Indications are the Taurus will have a similar appearance the the Ford Mondeo. If this turns out to be true, the Taurus may reclaim it’s best-selling car status in the near future. Even the 500 head and shoulders above the Impala. I can speak from experience because we’ve owned both. The 500 was a great car, just bland in styling, Ibut the Volvo heritage is easily discerned when driving.

I’m a GM guy and I want GM to succeed, but GM has poured all of it’s resources into truck/SUV platforms and let their cars wither on the vine. Bankruptcy would probably be the best thing that can happen to GM.

The insane 700B bank bail-out was absolutely FUBAR’d and rushed thru by Congress and the prez. Obama supported it so he is no different. They gave banks a load of cash without the stipulation that the banks must lend. Such a deal. A lot of that 700B has not been spent yet, and if I were Paulson I would withhold the funds until the banks give in and lend, or divert it to ailing industries.