Comments on: GM mulling IPO in 2010 http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-mulling-ipo-in-2010.html Car news, reviews, and specs for the auto-industry Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:46:44 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: cab396 http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-mulling-ipo-in-2010.html/comment-page-1#comment-470024 cab396 Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:14:45 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=19585#comment-470024 Wow, all of you financial wizards are interesting to read! Usually a company attempting an IPO has something to offer! Do any of you "geniuses" have an idea what GM has to offer within an IPO? The "new GM" has the "old guard" controlling the purse strings and product development! Fritz.....a great face guy. Uh, sorry....not a good face guy. Does the word NOTHING to offer in an IPO mean anything too you guys? Lutz might be some light at the end of the tunnel, but that light is dimming! The new GM will catch up with the "old" GM fairly quickly. Wow, all of you financial wizards are interesting to read! Usually a company attempting an IPO has something to offer! Do any of you “geniuses” have an idea what GM has to offer within an IPO? The “new GM” has the “old guard” controlling the purse strings and product development! Fritz…..a great face guy. Uh, sorry….not a good face guy. Does the word NOTHING to offer in an IPO mean anything too you guys? Lutz might be some light at the end of the tunnel, but that light is dimming! The new GM will catch up with the “old” GM fairly quickly.

]]> By: Noah http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-mulling-ipo-in-2010.html/comment-page-1#comment-469967 Noah Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:33:12 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=19585#comment-469967 What happened to my old BM stock????? What happened to my old BM stock?????

]]> By: DB9 http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-mulling-ipo-in-2010.html/comment-page-1#comment-469805 DB9 Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:46:51 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=19585#comment-469805 carstuff, there is so much written on the auto biz both domestic and global that it would fill a library. There is everything from cheap dime-store analysis to hefty tomes based on costly studies that still don’t get it right. You have to do the work yourself as any Analyst, Investment Banker/Business Economist worth a salt would do. That is anyone in the biz of analyzing bizz lol:-)) Since you seem to have an eye for the details I thought you’d appreciate the link below as it a good general synopsis of ‘the General’ http://www.christonium.com/automotive/ItemID=12451612441587 DB9 carstuff, there is so much written on the auto biz both domestic and global that it would fill a library. There is everything from cheap dime-store analysis to hefty tomes based on costly studies that still don’t get it right. You have to do the work yourself as any Analyst, Investment Banker/Business Economist worth a salt would do. That is anyone in the biz of analyzing bizz lol:-)) Since you seem to have an eye for the details I thought you’d appreciate the link below as it a good general synopsis of ‘the General’

http://www.christonium.com/automotive/ItemID=12451612441587

DB9

]]> By: carstuff http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-mulling-ipo-in-2010.html/comment-page-1#comment-469804 carstuff Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:11:41 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=19585#comment-469804 We now have 3 different experiments for our domestic OEM's 1-Partial government, partial foreign owned, majority UAW owned private company 2-public stock owned company 3-partial UAW, partial bondholders, majority government owned private company 1 will sell off the majority UAW/government ownership and become a partial foreign owned/majority public owned company 2 will continue to struggle, most likely looking for more cash to stay in business. Could come through more stock offerings or partnership with equity firm or some other OEM. 3 will sell off the UAW/Government ownership and become a public owned company. We now have 3 different experiments for our domestic OEM’s

1-Partial government, partial foreign owned, majority UAW owned private company

2-public stock owned company

3-partial UAW, partial bondholders, majority government owned private company

1 will sell off the majority UAW/government ownership and become a partial foreign owned/majority public owned company

2 will continue to struggle, most likely looking for more cash to stay in business. Could come through more stock offerings or partnership with equity firm or some other OEM.

3 will sell off the UAW/Government ownership and become a public owned company.

]]> By: psiclone http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-mulling-ipo-in-2010.html/comment-page-1#comment-469798 psiclone Tue, 14 Jul 2009 06:35:20 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=19585#comment-469798 This is the most intellectual discussion I've seen on here in a while. Thanks to DB9 and carstuff. I'm definately a GM fan and am glad to see them get this crutch until they can recover, assuming they do. However, I'm real uneasy about the government being so closely tied in to private business (or is it now considered public?). I realize that this isn't anything new, having done it for Chrysler and Amtrak in decades past, but it doesn't change the fact that it seems contrary to what makes this America. With that said, it would have been dificult accepting Ford products as the only American vehicles if the government had not acted. This is the most intellectual discussion I’ve seen on here in a while. Thanks to DB9 and carstuff.

I’m definately a GM fan and am glad to see them get this crutch until they can recover, assuming they do. However, I’m real uneasy about the government being so closely tied in to private business (or is it now considered public?). I realize that this isn’t anything new, having done it for Chrysler and Amtrak in decades past, but it doesn’t change the fact that it seems contrary to what makes this America. With that said, it would have been dificult accepting Ford products as the only American vehicles if the government had not acted.

]]> By: HalGameGuru http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-mulling-ipo-in-2010.html/comment-page-1#comment-469792 HalGameGuru Tue, 14 Jul 2009 03:40:51 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=19585#comment-469792 Just so you guys realize an IPO is not "getting back into debt" it is selling pieces of the new company as shares to people who wish to own a part and profit from dividends and capital appreciation. Debt is a loan, an IPO does not have to be paid back, its money to use to make a profit and you then share those profits with the shareholders. Just so you guys realize an IPO is not “getting back into debt” it is selling pieces of the new company as shares to people who wish to own a part and profit from dividends and capital appreciation. Debt is a loan, an IPO does not have to be paid back, its money to use to make a profit and you then share those profits with the shareholders.

]]> By: Borat http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-mulling-ipo-in-2010.html/comment-page-1#comment-469772 Borat Tue, 14 Jul 2009 02:00:54 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=19585#comment-469772 Lefty, google British Leyland and please tell me what we did better with GM then Britain with BL? I can see 2010 IPO just like 2009 Volt. Two years ago ti was a goal. Lefty, google British Leyland and please tell me what we did better with GM then Britain with BL? I can see 2010 IPO just like 2009 Volt. Two years ago ti was a goal.

]]> By: DB9 http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-mulling-ipo-in-2010.html/comment-page-1#comment-469745 DB9 Tue, 14 Jul 2009 00:10:17 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=19585#comment-469745 carstuff, you are correct in the 17B amount; however, almost 9B of this is Preferred shares and/or warrants there is only a little over 9B that is direct debt. Yes, Ford is mortgaged to the hilt - its the only way they could get the money they needed. As is well known, they got very lucky with the timing. If the market doesn't turn around soon or stabilize... all bets are off for everyone - including the J2... GM received one hell of a second chance, Fritz seems to appreciate this fact, they better execute... DB9 PS. keep up the good work - keep em honest;-) You're one of the few voices of reason around here; don't let em get to ya lol:-)) carstuff, you are correct in the 17B amount; however, almost 9B of this is Preferred shares and/or warrants there is only a little over 9B that is direct debt.

Yes, Ford is mortgaged to the hilt – its the only way they could get the money they needed. As is well known, they got very lucky with the timing.

If the market doesn’t turn around soon or stabilize… all bets are off for everyone – including the J2…

GM received one hell of a second chance, Fritz seems to appreciate this fact, they better execute…

DB9

PS. keep up the good work – keep em honest;-) You’re one of the few voices of reason around here; don’t let em get to ya lol:-))

]]> By: carstuff http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-mulling-ipo-in-2010.html/comment-page-1#comment-469740 carstuff Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:56:27 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=19585#comment-469740 And I should have mentioned that Ford is mortgaged to the hilt. All their property is now being used as collateral. And I should have mentioned that Ford is mortgaged to the hilt. All their property is now being used as collateral.

]]> By: carstuff http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-mulling-ipo-in-2010.html/comment-page-1#comment-469739 carstuff Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:54:50 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=19585#comment-469739 Wow DB9! Good comments/analysis. GM debt is actually $17 billion and $48 billion in liabilities though. Compare this to Fords $25.8 billion with it rising to $36 billion by 2011. http://www.freep.com/article/20090712/BUSINESS01/907120508/1210/BUSINESS/Growing-debt-burdens-Ford Wow DB9! Good comments/analysis. GM debt is actually $17 billion and $48 billion in liabilities though.

Compare this to Fords $25.8 billion with it rising to $36 billion by 2011.

http://www.freep.com/article/20090712/BUSINESS01/907120508/1210/BUSINESS/Growing-debt-burdens-Ford

]]> By: leftwingagenda http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-mulling-ipo-in-2010.html/comment-page-1#comment-469738 leftwingagenda Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:54:20 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=19585#comment-469738 take a company that is in trouble, laden with debt and bloated union contracts, infuse it with cash, reduce overhead (dealer kill offs, debt forgiven/offloaded to the "bad" division stuck in bankruptcy, union concessions) and then re-launch with a streamlined product line...the result? a company that makes more money than before...don't be surprised if the ipo is successful, no matter how strong your knee-jerk reaction to crap on any post related to gm and finances... take a company that is in trouble, laden with debt and bloated union contracts, infuse it with cash, reduce overhead (dealer kill offs, debt forgiven/offloaded to the “bad” division stuck in bankruptcy, union concessions) and then re-launch with a streamlined product line…the result? a company that makes more money than before…don’t be surprised if the ipo is successful, no matter how strong your knee-jerk reaction to crap on any post related to gm and finances…

]]> By: DB9 http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-mulling-ipo-in-2010.html/comment-page-1#comment-469725 DB9 Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:44:47 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=19585#comment-469725 GM’s total debt is a little over 9B. The company is mandated to repay this amount by 2015. Given a normal market it would take them 2-3 years to repay that amount with ease! The rest of the government loans (US & Canadian) – 50B – were converted into equity positions in the company. By selling this equity beginning with an IPO in 2010 and later secondary offerings the governments will recoup the amount given to the company. In the case of the UAW VEBA their equity position once liquidated will fund the VEBA. If the market recovers and the GM is successful the US and Canadian governments will recoup tax payer funds and possibly make a profit. The Company left chpt 11 with Liabilities of 48B – this is not debt. Liabilities are everything from future liability claims, warranties, pension obligations, to short-term items such as payroll. A company the size of GM with zero debt will incur liabilities of ~10-11B just by opening the doors – cost of doing business. Liabilities are financed through cashflow... The escrow account is where the reaming 20-30B of the 58B total extended to GM will be placed. They have not used the total amount of money given to them. If the market recovered, along with GM, the Company wouldn't have to draw from the remaining principal - don't count on it! DB9 PS. When you look at Ford’s total debt you have to make sure that you account for FORD Credit. Debt incurred by Ford’s finance arm is ‘generally’ self financed. The above and GM’s particulars can be found at any biz/finance site on the net – google it!;-) PS. to the PS. The main article is… well… maybe a rewrite is in order… to many liberties... GM’s total debt is a little over 9B. The company is mandated to repay this amount by 2015. Given a normal market it would take them 2-3 years to repay that amount with ease! The rest of the government loans (US & Canadian) – 50B – were converted into equity positions in the company. By selling this equity beginning with an IPO in 2010 and later secondary offerings the governments will recoup the amount given to the company. In the case of the UAW VEBA their equity position once liquidated will fund the VEBA. If the market recovers and the GM is successful the US and Canadian governments will recoup tax payer funds and possibly make a profit.

The Company left chpt 11 with Liabilities of 48B – this is not debt. Liabilities are everything from future liability claims, warranties, pension obligations, to short-term items such as payroll. A company the size of GM with zero debt will incur liabilities of ~10-11B just by opening the doors – cost of doing business. Liabilities are financed through cashflow…

The escrow account is where the reaming 20-30B of the 58B total extended to GM will be placed. They have not used the total amount of money given to them. If the market recovered, along with GM, the Company wouldn’t have to draw from the remaining principal – don’t count on it!

DB9

PS. When you look at Ford’s total debt you have to make sure that you account for FORD Credit. Debt incurred by Ford’s finance arm is ‘generally’ self financed. The above and GM’s particulars can be found at any biz/finance site on the net – google it!;-)

PS. to the PS. The main article is… well… maybe a rewrite is in order… to many liberties…

]]> By: DB9 http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-mulling-ipo-in-2010.html/comment-page-1#comment-469713 DB9 Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:08:18 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=19585#comment-469713 ^read away andy: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124207486475407959.html DB9;-) ^read away andy:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124207486475407959.html

DB9;-)

]]> By: andy http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-mulling-ipo-in-2010.html/comment-page-1#comment-469711 andy Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:01:16 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=19585#comment-469711 Carstuff, where abouts are you reading this Ford news? dont get me wrong, im not doubting you at all, i just want to read up on it... Carstuff, where abouts are you reading this Ford news? dont get me wrong, im not doubting you at all, i just want to read up on it…

]]> By: carstuff http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-mulling-ipo-in-2010.html/comment-page-1#comment-469705 carstuff Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:55:19 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=19585#comment-469705 BS? Capitalism at work and the only way to pay off the government. How do you think stocks in company come about? Ford, who is now in worse case than GM financially just made up some more shares and sold them to pay off debt and keep in business. BS? Capitalism at work and the only way to pay off the government. How do you think stocks in company come about? Ford, who is now in worse case than GM financially just made up some more shares and sold them to pay off debt and keep in business.

]]> By: freeyellow2000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-mulling-ipo-in-2010.html/comment-page-1#comment-469694 freeyellow2000 Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:26:25 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=19585#comment-469694 that idea is full of BS.. Borrowing more money to pay back the govt loans .....That a bad idea its more like that don;'t want the salary ceiling that was imposed on the banking industry on exec pay.... Why do you think the banks are itching to pay back the TARP loans that idea is full of BS..

Borrowing more money to pay back the govt loans …..That a bad idea its more like that don;’t want the salary ceiling that was imposed on the banking industry on exec pay…. Why do you think the banks are itching to pay back the TARP loans

]]> By: johnnycanuck http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-mulling-ipo-in-2010.html/comment-page-1#comment-469691 johnnycanuck Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:21:50 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=19585#comment-469691 I just hope the background color of those shares doesn't clash with the new green logo. I just hope the background color of those shares doesn’t clash with the new green logo.

]]> By: ricky_b http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-mulling-ipo-in-2010.html/comment-page-1#comment-469681 ricky_b Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:37:01 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=19585#comment-469681 Awesome idea. I have an old apple cider jar with a lot of loose change that I need to do something with. Awesome idea. I have an old apple cider jar with a lot of loose change that I need to do something with.

]]> By: RaineMan http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-mulling-ipo-in-2010.html/comment-page-1#comment-469675 RaineMan Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:29:21 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=19585#comment-469675 No... Scratch that. Hell no. No…

Scratch that.

Hell no.

]]> By: jonstew http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-mulling-ipo-in-2010.html/comment-page-1#comment-469672 jonstew Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:25:15 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=19585#comment-469672 Funny; Am-Trak never had an IPO after it's gov't take over and it still hemorages public money. I am sure the gubment and Obama's idiot car "czars" can turn GM around and make an IPO a legitimately good idea though. Funny; Am-Trak never had an IPO after it’s gov’t take over and it still hemorages public money. I am sure the gubment and Obama’s idiot car “czars” can turn GM around and make an IPO a legitimately good idea though.

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