September29
A document detailing GM’s new contract with the UAW provides us with a detailed product roadmap for the next five years. It would appear the information was inadvertently made public, but in any case we’ve compiled a complete summary.
It’s not known if the list represents a complete roadmap or only a partial one. Vehicles like the forthcoming Chevrolet Camaro and other Zeta platform cars don’t appear on the list because they will be built by the CAW in Canada.
Product commitments:
Cadillac CTS Coupe (CTC) and Wagon to arrive in 2009Two Zeta platform Cadillacs set for 2011.Chevrolet Lambda crossover beginning in 2011Next-generation Corvette and Cadillac XLR coming in 2012. Next-generation GMC Acadia, Saturn Outlook, Buick Enclave, and Chevrolet version in 2012Chevrolet Volt beginning in 2010Global Alpha RWD (2 variants) beginning in 2011Next-generation “C3XX” full-sized trucks to replace GMT 900 truck beginning in 2013Hummer H3 successor in 2011Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky continue until 2012Pontiac G6 continues through 2013Cadillac DTS discontinued in 2010; Current Buick Lucerne either discontinued or moved to other plant.Global Delta MPV7 launch in 2009Global Epsilon Chevrolet beginning in 2012Global Epsilon Buick and Saturn beginning in 2009
Wheres the camaro?
In the land of the mullett.
Seriously though, I would think bankruptcy might interfere with this plan. Oh well, it doesn’t cost anything to have a pipe dream.
I can only guess the Camaro isn’t on the list because the UAW won’t be making it as it’s a CAW car. I’m more interested in the Volt, the G6 going till 2013 with no word on mid-cycle refresh, and the discontinuing of the Lucerne in 2010 (what car will replace it & why so soon?) but the total lack of any LaCross news.
That CTS Coupe is exciting. CTS-V Coupe, maybe? I bet (well, it has to be) one of the Zeta platforms is the STS/DTS replacement. I want more news on the Alpha. How about a forced induction RWD compact car? That would be badass. Definitely uncharged territory for Chevrolet. Maybe the ZR-1 will change all that and pave the way for something more economical.
uncharted*
GM isn’t in financial trouble anymore.
It’s still teetering.
That said, any word on the Alpha Platform? The G6 replacement was supposed to be based on the the Alpha.
On the Cadillac Zetas, Those could possibly be the STS and SRX replacements, minding that they currently ride the Sigma platform. The Zeta can go bigger, but I wouldn’t be shocked at an STS coupe and sedan. I’m thinking of something along the lines of the dead and gone El Dorado.
Where is the Solstice Coupe?
Mapcapp (and all racist, anti-American losers) please go somewhere else. GM is not going to be bankrupt, espeically after the new UAW deal that was recently signed. The mullett comment was also unnecessary. Why are you rooting for GM to fail?
I am disappointed that GM will let the G6 drag on for so long. Right now, Pontiac needs life pumped into it with new products like GM did with Saturn, not to let it sit there without anything intresting besides the Solstice and G8. Unlike Buick, Pontiac is not big in China (it isn’t even sold there) and is at the most risk of any GM brand to face Oldsmobile’s fate. I hope the 2 Alpha vehicles go to Cadillac (3 series fighter) and to Pontiac (G6 replacement).
Cadillac is doing great (CTC should be awesome, and the XTS can’t come soon enough), but I am surprised at the fact that Caddy is getting two Zetas. I thought that the STS and DTS will both be replaced by a single car. I like that they are keeping the Lambda’s and the GMT’s fresh and the Volt confirmation is great news. The 2-3 new Epsilons are also intresting news - can’t wait to see this plan realized
Anti-American losers huh?? Just because someone doesn’t like GM
Anyway, I think that Buick is the most vulnerable now. The sell the **** out of them in China (for some reason) but in the US they don’t have a full lineup and I really don’t see them selling more product than Pontiac. Pontiac has a sporting image and that is appealing to buyers of domestic vehicles. Buick is similar to Mercury in the sense of finding their niche although Mercury is all badge jobs but they have more of a lineup.
I dont know if you have access to the show “Motor week” but they are testing the CTS on their next show
There are not two Zeta Cadillacs, just two Zetas at LGR a year after the DTS and Lucerne end at Hamtramk (hint hint).
Don’t expect Alpha to be compact, but more lower-midsize like the Grand Am, current Mazda6, BLS and 9-3.
A Gamma (GM code for fwd subcompact platform) sedan will be built in the US from 2010.
LaCrosse will be replaced by the Global Epsilon Buick in early ‘09 (2010 MY). See spy photos elsewhere on LLN.
Who says it will be the same G6 at Orion until 2013? Or that all the model variants will still be built there until then?
In 2010 a “large notchback Chevrolet” joins the Malibu, Lacrosse, Aura and another midsize Saturn at Fairfax.
A Chevrolet Lambda (perhaps a smaller crossover) is arrives in 2011, but the original fullsize crossover continues until 2012, and may be replaced at that time.
Another, unidentified theta-Epsilon crossover also arrives in 2011. CAMI will continue to build lwb midsize models (a GMC and another new model replace the Equinox and Torrent from 2009), while swb models for Saturn, Saab, and Cadillac are being built in Mexico. So what’s this? A lwb Cadillac or Saab? A swb Chevy or GMC? A Buick?
The Global Delta MPV7 is a 7-seat compact MPV like the new Opel Zafira and Mazda5, for export only. The current Opel Zafira will not be at the end of its model cycle at that time, so …
1115 - I said anti-American because that person was actively rooting for GM to fail. It doesn’t take any amount of patriotism to support your country’s biggest companies. You don’t have to buy GM if you don’t want to, go buy your imports - but why would you want GM to go bankrupt. I think it takes a good amount of anti-Americanism to want MG to go bankrupt. After all, that person gains nothing from that. No one gains anything from a GM bankruptcy. America would lose a bit of its wealth though.
Anyway, thanks to Buick, GM Shanghai is #1 in China so there is NO way that GM will axe them. As for North America, the Enclave is a hit and the next Lacrosse looks promising. I think Buick will be given more product to see if it can make a comeback, but even if that fails, Buick could be pulled out of the American market (unlikely) but the Buick brand would live on elsewhere (especially in China)
And what is your point about CTS being on Motor Week? I have not read a single negative review of the CTS, all say it is the best Cadillac in recent memory and so do I (I drove a white base V6 model and I am waiting for a black direct injected V6 CTS to arrive).
@ RicardoHead
http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/top-Pontiac-Solstice-Coupe-Concept.htm
It’s a beautiful automobile!
Releasing product planning for the next 5 years is like someone (UAW) poking their own eye (GM). Stupid, stupid, stupid. Although, I can’t wait to see a CTS coupe!
If he wants GM to fail thats his choice. It will be due to their product and inability to compete. It doesnt make him unamerican. Why should he care about Gm or MG
I think Buick needs the entry level car not Caddy. They need something smaller and tighter to appeal to the younger buyer.
Still mad huh ? I was telling you about MW so that you can check it out on TV. How am I to know if you have driven it already? Like I said the interior is impressive.
Sounds like Gm is on the right track… I love the hater comments…so empty and pointless…
But the thing is, 1115, that GM is getting pretty competitive right now. August sales figures showed GM sales in North America increased while Toyota’s decreased. Their new products like the CTS that you are talking about are great and I am sure Mapcapp knows that. Therefore, it’s fair to say that his position is based on hate for GM (for whatever reason) and definitely not on fact.
I actually agree with you here - I think Buick needs an Alpha car more than Caddy. However, I can almost guarantee
The H3 redesign sounds good. I wouldn’t mind seeing what they have in store for that
u people cant read why the Camaro isnt listed huh?
im suprised the H3 will las till 2011 and the new full size pickup wont be out until 2013…thats a long time for the current models to go
But the thing is, 1115, that GM is getting pretty competitive right now. August sales figures showed GM sales in North America increased while Toyota’s decreased. Their new products like the CTS that you are talking about are great and I am sure Mapcapp knows that. Therefore, it’s fair to say that his position is based on hate for GM (for whatever reason) and definitely not on fact.
I actually agree with you here - I think Buick needs an Alpha car more than Caddy. However, I can almost guarantee that Caddy will be getting it because GM wants the CTS to compete with the 5 series/E-Class so they are bringing in a new car, smaller than the CTS to compete with the 3 series/C-Class which will most likely be the Alpha. I personally think that the current CTS should be the 3 series competitor and that the STS should be more aggresively redesigned and slightly downsized to compete with the 5 series. Lastly, the DTS should outright be replaced with a totally new flagship for Cadillac (the current DTS is just too old-school American luxury and its image is just too “Florida-retirees only” that it will be impossible to beat cars with like the 7 Series and LS with another Deville/DTS Cadillac.
And yes, I also agree that the CTS interior is impressive (more than impressive for me). That also goes for the exterior, no?
Realized my last comment was cut off (that’s why I reposted with the whole thing)
I agree with your points commodore, gm has stepped up to the plate big time and stopped hitting foul balls. if they can continue with the trend thet started with the cts and new buicks then they sould really stabilize. i still dont know why most people here (not you 1115)wish for their complete collapse.
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1115 i didnt include you because i agree with most of what you have to say today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhQb2wJVPTg,
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with the new interior the new cts will be a very nice all around car, not even clarkson can argue with the performance, just the interior of the old model.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=CTS&search=Search,
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the video was the last generation which i was talking about with the performance.
You guys can quit the the anti american anti import trash talk. The fact is the CTS has been getting very high praises from many reviewers. If the handling is indeed similar to the 5 series that it was modeled from, its very low price compared to BMW is extremely attractive. The interior can actually be called luxury and after adding pretty much all sport packages, the very top of the line 300HP AWD model is at $41.7K. Compare that to the rear wheel 335i which is at $44K. Though to be fair, the Infiniti G35x is at $35.4 also fully loaded without NAV and that’s considerably lower than the CTS so the CTS wasn’t the complete knock out it was supposed to be. Regardless, compared to the Germans which are its intended competitors, it seems to be winning by a long mile.
Now in the realm of coupes, the CTC may have a hard time converting Bimmer freaks with the arrival of the 135i. A smaller but faster 335i that’s cheaper than the CTC is very hard to resist.
You don;t think the CTS was a ‘complete knockout’ just because of the price? I do agree that the CTS isn’t absolutely perfect but there are few cars out there that are - and the price of the G35 is lower because the Japanese are able to import their cars very cheaply because of the weak yen (they are underpricing their Infinitis because they still want to get more people into their cars and build brand image). Also your example is missing Nav which adds 2 grand and it might be missing AWD which adds another 2 grand. That would make the G35 around $39,400. And I am getting my CTS for under 40 grand (it’s the direct-injected V6 model) so the prices are pretty competitive.
That $35.4K is for the G35x which is AWD, fully loaded except for the NAV and Tech package which are linked that I didn’t add. The $41.7K for the CTS AWD DI is also without NAV and fully loaded except for the Premium Luxury package that cannot be added if you’ve chosen the Performance Package. So it’s a very similar comparison but the price difference is quite huge. If it differs for only maybe $3K, the CTS will also steal sales from the Infiniti. Not so much of the japs underpricing but mostly the fault of the UAW. The CTS is still quite a steal for the price as compared to the germans. All that remains is which driver seat’s more comfortable. The previous G35 has one of the most uncomfortable seats next to the C Class.
Regardless it’s good to see Cadillac made a comeback. More competition the merrier for us consumers. Can’t wait to see how the CTC goes…
That $35.4K is for the G35x which is AWD, fully loaded except for the NAV and Tech package which are linked that I didn’t add. The $41.7K for the CTS AWD DI is also without NAV and fully loaded except for the Premium Luxury package that cannot be added if you’ve chosen the Performance Package. So it’s a very similar comparison but the price difference is quite huge. If it differs for only maybe $3K, the CTS will also steal sales from the Infiniti. Not so much of the japanese underpricing but mostly the fault of the UAW. The CTS is still quite a steal for the price as compared to the germans. All that remains is which driver seat’s more comfortable. The previous G35 has one of the most uncomfortable seats next to the C Class.
Regardless it’s good to see Cadillac made a comeback. More competition the merrier for us consumers. Can’t wait to see how the CTC goes…
I don’t know where you get the nearly 42k for the Cadillac w/out Navi. The direct-injection Caddy starts at 34.5k and you can add everything you need (”Luxury Level One Pkg., Luxury Level Two Pkg., Seating Pkg., navigation system, traffic information, hard drive, digital-media player connection, upgraded Bose sound system, wood/leather-wrapped steering wheel and shifter, wood interior trim, power sunroof, universal garage door opener. Replaces Luxury Level One Pkg. 6-disc CD/MP3 changer w/single disc CD/MP3 player.”) — all that for another 8k. With a manual tranny, you save 1.3k so the whole car comes in at just under 40k with the nav.
And if you just want the direct injection CTS with AWD and nothing else, it will cost you 1.9k for a total of 36.4k which is pretty competitive with the G35 (plus I prefer the CTS which is really all that counts here): http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2008-cadillac-cts-2.htm
Commodore, 1115: I sayGM should be very discriminating it what it chooses to sell as a Caddy OR a Buick. no rebadged Cobalt or even Malibu.
Buick needs something RWD.
Veda: you have a glaring flaw in your comparison
Well you know I wont be buying one but if Buick wants to shed the old image they should make something smaller.
They should actually look at the G35 and make something similar in size with similar features. They can take the Velite styling cues and apply them to a smaller car.
Can anyone tell me why the H4 isn’t on the list?
Regarding GM sales, I see a hell of a lot of new GM product on the road here in Utah - primarily Tahoes and Sierras. And for good reason, IMO - they are good looking vehicles. I agree that GM is on the right track. I also agree that it is moronic for anyone to cheer the thought of GM’s demise. Those who think that the American auto companies aren’t an integral part of our economy just don’t get it.
JJT - No, I don’t think Buick needs anything RWD (besides a halo car/Super Buicks). Many people have put in their two cents as to how GM’s divisions should go so here are mine:
CHEVROLET = mainstream brand that appeals to everyone. Wide array of vehicles from FWD to RWD, from cars and crossovers to trucks and pickups. Styling should be more on the conservative side but a little less bland than Toyonda. COMPETITORS: Ford, Chrysler, Toyota etc.
PONTIAC = excitement brand that appeals mainly to the youth. Absolutely no minivans (Montana was bad idea), no SUVs (Torrent is pointless, leave those to GMC), and stay away from crossovers (all I need to say is ‘Aztec’). Focus on making affortable, RWD cars with sporty styling and 200 HP+ engines. COMPETITORS: Scion (cars like the tC, but not the xB)
SATURN = import fighter brand that appeals to the kind of people that buy European and Japanese cars. Based on Opels, with everything from styling to reliablity that rivals Jap and Euro competitors. COMPETITORS: Volkswagen, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and others.
GMC: = professional truck division. Most models are based on Chevy trucks but GMC’s are more professional and luxury. GM will have NO cars and should stay away from crossovers (I was skeptical about the Acadia but it turned out good). I’d also like to see GMC get a variant of things other than chevy products such as the upcoming H4. COMPETITORS: Mainly Jeep
BUCIK = near-luxury division. Mostly FWD cars with advanced technologies. Needs a halo car (like the Velite) badly in order to appeal to younger buyers. Try to bring back a sport-luxury image. COMPETITORS: Infinite and Acura (and perhaps Lexus).
CADILLAC = luxury division. Distict American luxury that challenges the likes of the world’s best selling and most despected luxury makers, All RWD cars and NO rebadges from lower divisions. Exclusive platforms like the Sigma is a good idea and cars like the CTS and Sixteen concept is where Caddy should go in the future. Needs a good flagship. COMPETITORS: Mercedes Benz, BMW, and so on.
HUMMER = off-road luxury division. Distict styling, luxuries, off-road capable SUVs. COMPETITORS: Mainly Land Rover, but also Jeep to some extent.
SAAB: Swedish brand. Focus on safety technologies and distinct styling (look to the Aero X for that). All Saabs mush have AWD either available or standard (or Saab’s new XDW system). Diesel , ethanol, and biopower shouild also be a focus of the brand. COMPETITORS: Main one is of course Volvo, but Subaru is also a competitor (but Saab is more expensive).
Ok, this is getting long so I’m done
jackjimturkey: “you have a glaring flaw in your comparison”
huh wtf? care to elaborate on that?
Commodore: check carsdirect.com and start adding. That site is a better way to compare prices since it has taken into accounts the discounts. I don’t care which car you “prefer”, I’m just trying to make a comparison based on which is the best deal as of today to see where each car stands. Your reasoning of a base CTS AWD compared to a fully loaded G35x AWD is not a fair comparison. That is unless you care to add personal preferences such as American Made and image. Both cars are supposed to be of a similar nature, the cheaper end of luxury sport sedan. Thus it would seem that the G35 is still the better deal.
In my country the Communist party always has 5 year plan and 7 year plan. They plan very well. It is nice to see that GM is doing the same thing. By the plan of 1934 Kazakhstan was suppose ti surpass all lousy capitalists states including America in production of automobiles by 1939!
2012 for the next Corvette? Hmmm, looks like I’ll be keeping my Z06 for more than 10 years then. Time for a STS twin turbo kit to hold me over…
You’re camparing a datsun (though I do love it) to two luxury cars.
Commodore I like your ideas. If only Gm would listen…
STS Turbo’s are sick, im looking at getting one myself for my Silverado SS
to Commodore: i agree with most of that but i gotta say the Montana wasnt a half bad idea for pontiac - i mean it was bad for the image, but if i was going to buy any of GM’s minivans it wouldve been a montana, definately the sportiest and most youthful of their offerings, and the only one id take over it is an Odyssey - but again… would never buy a minivan.
A4 - good point, but in the end it is all about image. In order for Pontiac to accomplish what I’m suggesting, minivans are definately out. Although I agree the Montana was good, it should have been given to a different division. And GM is smart enough to sell the Montana as the Buick GL8 in the Chinese market where it is a hit.
Lastly, I don’t know how old you are, but no teen/young adult would want a Pontiac minivan.
or any other minivan.
a4: I’d pick any other minivan over the Oddessy