Thanks for nothing, GM — trying to pass on the costs of the Volt to the taxpayers — you and me. **** you GM, and one especially big **** you to Bob Lutz.

Although an escalating MSRP is always happening with the Volt, I believe that GM will have not problem selling them as there are people who like to believe, and purchase American. There is no need for a tax incentive as it makes GM look weak, and clearly exhibits that GM does not have faith in its own product!

If they’re gonna try to get that incentive across the board, they’re only helping the competition as much as they are themselves. Which means the net benefit to them isn’t nearly as much as if they pushed for something that, say, only benefitted buying Domestic versions of said cars.
So, while I applaud their fairness (and probably their practicality as they know it’d likely never pass if it was Domestic-exclusive), this doesn’t seem like it would necessarily solve the problems of the ever-increasing pricetag of the Volt. Because the Volt’s biggest problem isn’t that it costs $40K — it’s that there are other long-established hybrids that cost only $25K.
If gas hits $8+/gallon, then the difference is okay. But if it hangs around the $4-6 mark, that $15K difference is gonna be a little hard to swallow outside of the people just trying to make a statement.

Maybe they can build the new Volt in China and shave $7k off the price.

No one seems to be crying over the tax incentives that helped the Prius gain a toe hold, why the big fuss over this?

$40,000 - $7,000 = $33,000

$33,000 > $29,800 (Fully loaded Prius)

I remember a post saying the Volt would most likely START in the HIGH 40K range, which means base price would be above $45,000, most likely $48,000 or $49,000. However, even if the Volt were to be only $40,000, it would still be cheaper to buy a foreign sipper WITHOUT the tax incentive. What’s worse is that the foreign sipper has tariffs added on. Does GM owe the oil companies some money, or something? I just don’t understand why they feel the need to be in the same price range with cars that are in a much higher quality range. Come on, GM, bring this price down to the point where a normal person can afford this, not just your employees with their discount.

beatus, don’t start the ‘quality’ argument again. Domestic quality gap exists mostly in perception today. And the Volt isn’t about economics to most potential buyers. It almost never makes sense to buy a new car just to get better mileage, and the Hybrid economics don’t really work out, either. This is about replacing gas as a primary means of energy, and I know a few people who would pay that premium.

injunraiv, with hybrids already taken hold I think GM is a bit too late to the tax incentive game. Had they been ready when others were (and they had no excuse not to be) then they too could have enjoyed the same incentives. This just makes GM look bad, like the kid that never grew-up, and who’s parents are constantly bailing their sorry ass out.

F451, how can I argue that? Toyota was in the right place at the right time with the right marketing, no one else was. In fact all other manufacturers were laughing at Toyota at the time (including our beloved Honda). Hindsight is 20/20.

Sorry, my antivirus went off in mid thought!

Continuing…

But the next step is to get us off oil, and the real benefit of the Volt concept is not the ‘plug in part, it’s the electric motivation part. This enables the generator to be charged in a number of ways, through house current, or the next wave of fuel - hydrogen cells, for example.

Interesting, now if government will pass 7K break on this vehicle, will GM will not raise price by 7 or more grand? Somehow, I trust GM management even less then government bureaucrats.

injunraiv, I truly love my country, but I really need an American car company that I can love again, and not have to make excuses for. Until GM does some serious house cleaning in its executive management, and starts recognizing the people who really contribute to GM—and there are some brilliant employees that never get any recognition—versus the hot air overpaid assholes (Lutz) I am remaining divorced from GM.

For $40K, I’d rather own a Lotus Elise. Fun and gets 30+ MPG when driven ‘conservatively’. Hell, even the Corvette gets decent mileage (with a 427ci engine no less!) and has a very useable hatch space.

snore

For $40,000 I’ll buy a $20,000 Fusion that gets 30 mpg and a $10,000 CBR1000RR that will get about 45mpg and still have $10,000 for gas for the next 5 years.

“For $40,000 I’ll buy a $20,000 Fusion that gets 30 mpg and a $10,000 CBR1000RR that will get about 45mpg and still have $10,000 for gas for the next 5 years.”

Just to give you some idea of the disparity in MPG we’re talking about here, given the scenario above at what we pay for gas now, you would spend almost all of that $2000/yr that you set aside for gas. And that’s just at $4/gallon. And we won’t even get into the added insurance costs of having 2 vehicles, including one that’s a motorcycle.

You have to understand that the Volt is being designed for a world where gas is $8/gallon OR MORE. Which, when you consider that gas prices have DOUBLED in the past 12 months and we’ve still got 24 months until the Volt comes out, isn’t exactly an impossible scenario.

If gas is $8/gallon, the Volt will only cost about $1000/yr to fill-up for your average person. Even if you averaged 40mpg in some other vehicle, you’re looking at spending $3000/yr. And that’s IF gas prices are 1> only $8, and 2> they don’t change over the course of ownership of your car.

Now imagine where gas prices could be in 7 more years by the time you pay off that Volt. You think gas prices will still be the same?

The Volt’s a gamble. A gamble that oil prices will continue to rise at a considerable rate. Toyota took a gamble on the Prius years back too. And back then the other automakers said they were crazy, that prices would come back down, and that Toyota was stupid to take a loss on every one they sold. Look where they are now.

Injunraiv, it’s not about American quality vs. something else. It’s more the outrageous pricing which GM is insisting on its vehicles. The price points of many of their cars just don’t make sense to me. Why is it that a domestic is so costly compared to a foreign car that has the same build quality? Again, I’m not saying that American quality is bad, but that the foreign cars should really be at least $10,000 more than a comparable domestic. Ten years ago, this was not the case, but today it is. GM used to have this test drive thing where you could test drive all of their fleet and compare them to select vehicles from other makes. Back when they started that test drive, you could compare a Caddy with a Mercedes, and the price difference would make sense. Now, the prices are so close, it just doesn’t add up. And this is true for most of their cars. If GM vehicles were the same price as foreign vehicles WITHOUT the import cost, I’d look at them a lot more. But when I go to purchase a new vehicle, price is one of the first things on my mind, and GM just isn’t attractive to me in that regard. I know what I can afford.

I will say, though, that many of GM’s vehicles are better made than they were 20 years ago, and even though I’m not too fond of Chevy and GMC styling, the vehicles are put together well. Still, the Volt price needs to be brought down before it will be seriously considered.

As far as buying a new car just to get better mileage, you’re right. It makes absolutely no sense to purchase a vehicle just for that. But if you are in the market for a new vehicle, which I am, then it makes sense to get one that helps you save money in the long run, whether that savings be in resale, reliability or fuel mileage. I’m looking to get a new vehicle soon, as my work may be relocating and my carpool will not be going with me. I’d seriously consider something electric if I could afford it, and I like the Volt’s principle. Really, I do. It’s the price, and only the price, that makes the Volt very difficult to consider, and the sad thing is that price is what steers me away from most GM vehicles.

If GM matched the price of the Volt with the price of the Prius, they would sell so fast that the $7,000 incentive would expire within a year. Even if they priced the Volt at $5,000 MORE than the Prius, I really think people would still look at the Volt first. I would. You can’t beat the idea of saving fuel, saving the environment, and helping the American economy all at the same time. But my wallet is my first concern, and the Volt doesn’t look promising, even with the $7,000 tax credit. I know it’s destined for the high price market, but why? Why are we, the middle class, the ones who are not allowed to save gas? We’re the majority, and they target the elite with something like this? That’s what I don’t understand. Hopefully, I made my point.

$7,000.00 per vehicle is NOTHING compared to the subsidies that the US Gov threw to corn farmers during the window of e85’s popularity. I’m with F451, I love my country and I want to support it, but in the automotive field they can’t seem to get their act together — or even to keep their head above water. Launching a $33k electric vehicle (assuming the $7k subsidy goes through) when the competition is at $22k just isn’t a sound business practice.

Why should the Volt match the Prius in price when they are completely different cars?

When the Prius is a plug-in hybrid with Li-Ion batteries (which it will be in probably about 3 years) then you can compare the pricing, the Prius will cost a lot more then too, but otherwise it’s like comparing a V8 model to an i4 model and wondering why the pricing is so different.

GM claims the Volt will achieve “100+mpg”. It will go 40 miles without needing to run its’ engine at all, which means that 70% of the population of the country can go to work and back home without every burning a drop of gasoline. (Yes, I know electricity isn’t free, and I’m not a big fan of electric cars myself as I don’t believe our grid can support a large amount of them, but that’s a topic for a different day).

You can’t compare a car that gets “100mpg” to one that gets 45mpg and expect them to cost the same. The Prius had a heck of a premium on it over standard cars at first as well, all to get maybe 20mpg more. But people still bought it. What makes you think they won’t pay a premium for one that gets 3 times that improvement?

The gamble is in what the Prius comes in at when it gets it’s Li-Ion plug-in version (and it won’t be $25K like the one is now) and what gas prices are when the Volt comes out.

“Why should the Volt match the Prius in price when they are completely different cars?”

Why should it be nearly twice the price? My point is that GM shouldn’t expect people to pay outrageous prices for their vehicles, when there is no need. Think about it this way:

Let’s say you live in England, and you want a Volt. If the Volt starts at $40,000 for US people, for you it will start well above £25,000 ($50,000 if converted to USD). That’s quite a bit of money. Nissan, Mercedes, and many others will be putting out full electrics at the same time the Volt is released, and you will have more diesel, plug-in hybrid, and maybe even some real alternatives like hydrogen coming out. If I had to pay that much to get 100mpg, I wouldn’t even go anywhere near the dealer. The older ForTwo can get 100mpg with a £1 octane booster, and that thing is only £8,000. Yeah, it’s a box, and yeah they don’t compare, but do they need to be THAT far apart in price?

I know the Prius doesn’t compare to the Volt, but it shouldn’t be so freakin’ expensive.

And the reason the Volt should be priced the same as the Prius is so that GM could kick Toyota’s @$$. Like I said, even if the Volt were $5,000 more than the Prius, GM would still kick Toyota’s @$$. I want GM to kick Toyota’s @$$. Let’s get our money back.

The way inflations starting up in 2010 we’re all going to need a $7,000 tax credit to afford a $40,000 pizza at Papa Johns.

Well…….
The good news is they still might make the 2010 deadline.
Maybe.

I always wanted to pay $40k for a GM first year car, sporting new vehicle powertrain uses.
Like Cadillac 8-6-4 cylinder deactivation.
That went well…..

And looking for a $7k discount, before the car is even built, should build the car’s image and resale value quite nicely.

Sweet!

DrFill

Sell Volvo or let it die.
Kill Buick and sell Hummer.
Take the money earned and saved and make this car sell.
GM needs bold cars with new ideas, not wimpy beggers asking for a tax break.

The reason we don’t have plug-in hybrids RIGHT NOW is because the charge/discharge cycles prematurely age and degrade the batteries. People are converting Civics and Prius’s into plug-ins by modifying the car, and they take 1-2 years off the life of the battery pack. GM has to handle that problem, which is most likely why it is taking to 2010.