Yeah ‘a need for them’ like all those SUV drivers I see driving around by themselves, without passengers or carrying any luggage / extra large items all the time.

Jon.

No, Toyota’s not much better. But that doesn’t mean GM is off the hook, it just means Toyota should be on it as well.

GM isn’t the only company at fault, and I haven’t read Friednmans column, but the assertion that America has become addicated to SUVs is totally accurate. We’ve been marketed to very, very well, and many people buy them for image rather than actual need. The assertion that all (or a majority) of them are sold because of need doesn’t survive the simplest logic test: if we NEED them now, how did we survive until 15 years ago when they SUV crazy started?? In fact, the “needs” that people have run contrary to the SUV trend: family size continues to decrease, so that can’t be it. Maybe there’s been an explosion in boat sales since the late 80s…?

We know we can’t take Harris’s response as truth, because it contains blantant untruths. A quote against CAFE: “In fact, oil consumption has increased dramatically over the years, even as vehicle fuel efficiency ratings have improved significantly.” Vehicle fuel efficiency ratings have NOT improved significantly over the years! In fact, they’ve gone down overall. So how can I take anything else this man says as anything but nonsense?

If people want SUVs, fine, they should be able to buy them. But the models available should get the same gas mileage as passenger cars. The light truck excemption is an embarrasment, and its only because of CAR MANUFACTURERS that it still exists. The auto people are lying if they say otherwise – they want to avoid putting the latest technology in their trucks because that would cost more and cut into their (huge) truck profit margins…

yall need 2 stop hatin on gm its jud cars yall act like aint no other car company trying 2 sale cars

I think the article (both Mr. Friedman’s and Mr. Harris’ response) say more about the lack of moral and ethical boundaries regarding corporate profitability in America than point a finger at GM in particular. Anyone who doesn’t believe that the oil industry hasn’t actively worked to stunt fuel efficiency and alternative energy growth, both on its own and in direct cooperation with auto manufacturers, obviously never learned about capitalism. Its all about MONEY, folks!

Yeah, a “need” to drive in an unsafe fashion as well as use an assinine amount of gasoline.

-he who stacks pork

GM Ford and Chrysler won’t get any better and american consumers will be denied decent products to buy and drive if the american public don’t criticise them for poor performance and being caught out by the market yet again!!! Shades of 1973, the 80s, the 90s all over again. The managers at GM are there soley to provide large dividends to the stockholders so they milk cash cows like SUVs without reinvesting in other product (cars) until the inevitable happens and people don’t want SUVs anymore.
Buy the best product you can afford and everybody benefits, if its a domestic nameplate fabulous! if its a foreign nameplate then the domestics need to find out why you made that purchasing decison and compete for your business. Its the free market baby

“Asinine” is with one “s”, and people have a right to buy whatever they want, whether it be a Prius or an F-350. How about some personal responsibility? I guess it’s just the manufacturers fault…

Chris #3. How can you say that MPG has not gone up? I can remember Impalas that got 15 on the highway if you were lucky. the most recent Impala gets 30 on the highway. This is with all the increased equipment and safety content. That is twice as much. Full size SUV’s used to get less than 10 on the highway. They now can get 20.

There was a study maybe about a year ago that average fuel economy for the US car fleet was at its worst level since the early 1980’s. I doubt we have recovered much in the past year.

The US gov’t (EPA), published a study last year. Here is a summary that says from the late 80s mileage went down and has held steady from the mid 90s until now. This is hardly what Mr Harris said in his rebuttal). Also, here’s a link to the whole thing, as there is a lot of interesting data in it:

http://www.epa.gov/OTAQ/cert/mpg/fetrends/420s05001.htm

Introduction
This report summarizes key fuel economy and technology usage trends related to model year 1975 through 2005 light-duty vehicles sold in the United States. Light-duty vehicles are those vehicles that EPA classifies as cars or light-duty trucks (sport utility vehicles, vans, and pickup trucks with less than 8,500 pounds gross vehicle weight ratings).

Since 1975, the fuel economy of the combined car and light truck fleet has moved through four phases:

1. a rapid increase from 1975 continuing to the mid-1980s

2. a slow increase extending into the late 1980s

3. a gradual decline until the mid-1990s

4. a period of relatively constant fuel economy since then

God save us from dimwitted nutjobs like Tom Friedman and his ilk, who all believe they know exactly what’s best for us all. Hopefully he gets flattened by a Hummer.

Yes, #12, i’m sure someone getting flattened by a Hummer is exactly what God has in mind….

I hate big SUV, but people aren’t “addicted to them.” People buy what they want/need. That’s always been the case. Psychoanalyzing a car purchase is itself crazy.

Friedman’s arguments are filled with the worst kind of elitism.

The only place I disagree with Harris is when he says GM offers “more vehicles that get 30 mpg or better EPA highway mileage than any other automaker. ”

Not that peope want to drive. That’s the problem.

Well said GM ruined Los ANgeles, My favorite city

RAS, I swear to God, everytime I read one of your posts I get the feeling that you’re one angry SOB. But you’re a goddamn good poster, and you make very persuasive arguments. Thanks for posting man!

Khafil,

You’re right, I do have a bit of an anger management problem. Thing is, I get angry about issues that should anger everyone with half a brain. And nothing pisses me off more than sheer stupidity (of which there’s a lot in the world). I’m glad I’ve made a contribution that others can enjoy, though.

SUV drivers need them……….to go along with their teacup dogs, designer handbags, and big sunglasses. How else can they get to the mall to spend their husbands money and driver their kids to privelage…errr private school.

Hey I live in 90210 and my kids go to public school

RAS – your an asshole ! There, I feel better now…..

You’ll have to pry my cold, dead hands off the wheel of my ‘Burb before I ever give it up to a P.O.S. like a Prius !

You liberal “save the world” weenies can kiss my big, fat, AMERICAN ass !!!!! In the mean time, I’ll continue to run you into the weeds out on the Inter-State…..

Thanks for the post RAS – I’d heard tidbits about the GM bus story, but never fully fleshed out like that article. I agree about the “anger” too – I’ve been told I have the same “problem”, but what the hell is wrong with the American public that such large scale crimes on our society are allowed, and in fact, legistated, by our elected representatives without any outcry?!

Feel like being a little more depressed? Research also shows that increasing fuel efficiency does not reduce consumption. People just end up driver faster and further. Not only that but as their cars require less gas they realize that they can afford a riding lawn mower, a jet ski, an ATV, and of course a second sporty car for Sunday drives. So consumption doesn’t decrease and you eventually must find a landfill for all the new toys people buy. What’s the solution? Beats me.

Al I never understood why anyone would actually want a fat ass. It’s AMericans like you that give sophisticated, worldly wise Coastal AMericans a bad name around the world. keep eating your corn and put your head in the sand Iowa, dakota, Nebraska boy or whatever bumhole egypt you are from

Oh Dear AL Bundy thinks his Suburban is fast and can handle lol lol lol lol lol lol

Exactly my point, Chris. What the hell is wrong with people? Not only in the US, but worldwide. With all the tools currently at our disposal, you’d think people would be better informed, better critical thinkers, and yet it seems we’re moving backwards. I tell you, I’m afraid of the day my kids go to college, considering the vast corporate grants to which universities have become addicted… What the hell are they going to be taught? If corporations can rewrite legislation, what’s to stop them from spinning history to cover current and past crimes.

As for you, “Al”… though I realize that you’re out posting for fun, I gotta tell you, buddy, I’m far from being a liberal “whatnot, etc., etc.” And considering I currently drive an M5, you’re gonna have to chase me hard to catch me so that you can run me off the road. As for kissing your ass… sure, why not, just as soon as GM, the Oil Club, and the Bush admin. are done giving you rectal therapy. The way the US is headed, though, I think you’ll be enjoying the backdoor love you enjoy so much for a long, hard time. And remember Al, synthetic lubes work best.

Oh ****, RAS strikes again, and it’s another KO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love anal now and again, its a good American tradition, and my Suburban is great for cruising the Tea Rooms and rest stops up and down the Interstates. What with my privacy glass i can accommodate 3 or 4 truckers at a time. My ass is so fat because “the bigger the cushion the better the pushing”

I love you Al, you’re an absolute classic! Keep posting.

Attention Liberal Weenies – don’t go posting using my handle. Be a Man, if ya can…..

Hey Al, wanna meet on the 5 at Buttonwillow? Its quiet there, but there is a Burger King if you get the munchies afterwards.

#30 Does that include the laydees Al Bundy?

Hey Al, you an “everwood” fan? Betcha like to bend over in between abusing your daughter and sodomising your son. Did mommy touch you in the bad place? Is that why you’re out trying to hurt others… cause you were hurt? We understand……

tom friedman is a worthless jackass. even a cursory read of any of his columns, or his “books” such as “the world is flat” will tell you that.

ask him if iraq will be turning around “in six months.” that’s his current favorite line.

just another nepotistically elevated jackass problem in our so-called “liberal” media.

George “Dubbya” Wanna meet up at Buttonwillow on the I5 in CA? Its quite and we can go for a burger king or a Carls afterwards if you’d like. Bring along that sweet transexual Condaleeza. Do you think Tony could make it?

I don’t understand the droids who believe if something is “in print” it must be true. The Nation is hardly objective, and extremely liberal from the article I have read on their site. Basically if it is anti- bush, conservative, suv, christianity than it’s something that will be reflected there-and apparently here, too.

If people want to drive suv’s then that is there perogative, and if liberals want to spend all of there time angry at them, then that is there’s. Sad that these issues seem to define who they are. It seems like they could be doing something productive with their lives…

Oh, and “RAS strikes again, and it’s another KO!” -not.

George W haters, he won, get over it!

I love my 07 Tahoe. And it consumes less than my CL65. Either way you cut it, it’s the choice in vehicle, its the fact that manufacturers dont develop alternate fuels. Why dont we have hydrogen SUVs? I don’t want to give up the driving enjoyment I get from my Tahoe OR my CL for that matter.

Why is everyone hating on SUV owners. Its their money, their choice. Stop blaming GM for people wanting SUV’s. This whole argument comes down to personal choice. If you dont like SUV’s go buy something else, just dont come in here acting like your uncovering some huge conspiracy when it comes down to PERSONAL CHOICE.

It is also my personal choice to let my 4 month old baby play with a kitchen knife. your preference matters when it affects other people! through global warming and slowly diminishing supplies of oil. Sure some people may really need an SUV but i wonder how people in europe ever managed to get by without SUVs.

there should be an extra tax added to SUVs (+25%-35% of overall car price)

because of;
1) poor gas mileage and efficiency
2) hazard to other roadusers
3) extra parking space they use

Part of the tax should be applied directly to the carmaker for making sucky unefficient engines. To compensate the added cost in tax companys could cut down the safety R&D thus hopefully decreasing the population of SUV drivers.

Any of these liberal ****heels who feel we’re “addicted” to oil should stand up to their convictions (imagine a liberal doing that) and stop using oil altogether, in any way possible. Of course these big-mouthed hypocrites never will, because such a decision will no doubt inconvenience them, and their beliefs are for other people to follow. But if they did, there’d be more oil for me and whatever vehicle I choose to purchase and drive with my hard-earned dollars.

Come on, folks, settle down. Steven Harris is a good man and all I can say is “Stevie, you’re doing a heckuva job”. It’s important that SUVs remain the focus of the big 3, oil consumption is all too important for Hallib… er, I mean for fighting terrorists. Remember 9/11!

Do you know what gets me? I bought an 01 740i and had to pay $2500 in gas guzzler tax for getting 18mpg city and 21Hwy but the jerkoffs that were buying SUVS that got 12-14 paid nothing. How f’ed up is that?

undecided

That is messed up, #50.

I drive a Suburban because I have a wife & 5 kids, and tow dirtbikes or a boat. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t buy such a big vehicle. BUT, there are definitly a lot of other people out there who do. BUT, who CARES!!! This is America. We should be able to drive whatever vehicle we want, as long as we can afford it, of course Look at all these city yahoos driving around their full-size 4-door trucks when they won’t even put a scratch on the inside of the box!!! Do they need the truck? No, but if that is what they want to drive and pay for, then let ‘em.

I wish GM would stop taking so much heat when they not the only one’s who produce a gas consuming vehicle. They are struggling and I think it is unfair to say it is due to poor quality. GM makes the most vehicles to achieve over 30 mpg on the highway. People should do some research before making such bold statements.

who took economics? obviously few of you did… anyone who thinks its GMs fault that people are buying there Trucks it isn’t… it the peoples fault….they are the consumer and they make the decisions. GM only encourages and trys (hopfully) to make what the consumer wants. you can’t blame GM, blame Supply and Demand… blame yourselfs … not shut up and buy that sweet new tahoe..

GM needs to start producing more fuel efficient cars that are LIKABLE and at the same time cut down on the manufacturing of large inefficient SUVs. But as many already said every other car company pushes massive amounts of inefficient SUVs on the road such as Ford, Toyota, and Dodge. In my opinion Dodge is the biggest abuser…”hew fellow red-neck, you got a HEMI”

Wow, you’re very clever, M. My ‘73 Dodge Coronet Sedan blows the doors off any plastic-molded import, in speed, style, performance, and it doesn’t lag in mileage. If you think GM’s cars are less ‘likeable’ than Honda’s or Toyota’s incredibly ugly and boring designs, you’ve apparently been dropped on your head.

Oh, and my car does ‘got’ a HEMI. Thanks for asking. You and every other import driver will be staring at my taillights until you run out of gas.

he is mad because israel is the only middle east country with no oil to cash in on the big run up in oil prices. i noticed that most writers that bash the USA or american companies are jewish,how come???