GM realized the camcrap and accord are perfect and theres no reason to try that just ask car and driver they alwasys say the camcrap is perfect…..xxxx toyota

There’s a lot of people ignorant enough to believe that Camry’s and Accords are indestructible. How do we prove reliability in a side-by-side comparison? I think that it would raise too many unnecessary objections.

Must be a holiday this forum should be full of dim comments like “cuz GM knows they have crap” or something similar

Saturn is being aimed at being GM’s import fighter division, so I guess continuing to lean on HONDA would not be out of sorts.

As for Chevy, I think it’s got more to do with Chevy doesn’t have enough right now to keep the Toyota from looking like a “don’t buy here” ad on their lots. Saturn doesn’t really have that problem having mostly new product (within the last 1-3 years). Chevy isn’t getting anything worth talking about until 2008 at the earliest.

Sj Commodore AMG Jjt ??? Its way too easy at this point

Of course they wouldn’t compare them. Think about it. The person buying this sort of car just wants something honest that works. He doesn’t care about prestige or heritage, he just wants something to get him around. He basically wants a Honda/Toyota.

bad move: The General’s main screwup this decade is not coming out and saying “we have a better car.” If done right, this would’ve gotten plenty of respect for the malibu.

I think there are far more economic reasons why GM is scrapping this. A Camry will take extra space on a showroom floor better occupied by their stuff. Also, why should GM pay money to a competitor to display their product on GM’s floor? GM just needs to get creative with marketing, and this being the best (modern) Malibu ever, you’d think they’d at least have enough confidence in their product to hawk it around without having to do physical side-by-sides to make the point.

Personally I think it compares well, and looks better than the current Camry. I’d have to drive one to be sure though.

I’d have to drive it to see it myself, but styling-wise, I like it better than the new Camry, though I do have to give at least the exterior on the new Accord props over it.

First of all, GM didn’t cancel the program because the Camcord are better. I’m guessing they canceled it because it doesn’t really show or emphasize anything by having the 3 cars together. You can’t prove that the Malibu is just as reliable because that is a long term thing, you can’t really prove anything because all that program does is show the looks of the 3 cars and their performance. Lastly, the 08 accord is just coming out so that makes the program almost impossible to continue – 08 accords are hard to get when they first come out and if they continue to use the old accord, buyers will dismiss the program as being unfair (and I would agree).

Second, why does LLN keep running old articles to fill their daily quota or whatever? I read this information last week. Also, the Saturn program is also ended – what is LLN gonna make a new article tomorrow saying “BREAKING NEWS: the saturn aura comparo program is cancelled”?

GM should at least make the consumer work alittle before he or she eventually buys the Camry. Weird to have right on the showroom floor where the buyer can compare GMs huge shutlines compared to the tiny ones of the Camry.
Not to the mention the cheap GM interior.
Thats making it too easy.

They should have scrapped the Camry idea and instead parked the new Malibu end-to-end with an Acura TL, and dared their customers to tell the difference!

buytheredcar – have you even seen the Malibu interior? It’s one of GM’s best and it certainly beats that of a comparably priced Camry. And have you seen the hood “gap” on the Malibu, it almost looks like there is NO gap at all. This is one of GM’s best executed cars – don’t talk when you don’t know what you’re talking about.

“I’m guessing they canceled it because it doesn’t really show or emphasize anything by having the 3 cars together.
Lastly, the 08 accord is just coming out so that makes the program almost impossible to continue – 08 accords are hard to get when they first come out”
Damn it feels good to see you squirm for excuses

You can’t prove that the Malibu is just as reliable because that is a long term thing, you can’t really prove anything. Hmm sounds familiar
This is so sweet

i work at a saturn dealer, and nobody cared when we did it with the accord and camry, so why waste dealer money.

I’d consider it a little biased. Not because of the cars, but because of the dealers. Although most of my experiences with Chevrolet dealerships have been alright, they seemed a little bit desperate to get the car off the lot- again, this is just my experience.

A more inexpensive way to do that is on GM’s website, which I believe they recently had some sort of program like that enacted. Not like Edmunds, with a little 2D picture and quick, vague discription, but an actual side by side comparison of asthetics, and a performance sheet.

i don’t understand what sounds familiar and what’s so sweet. When the new accord shows up on the market people will be snatching it up because the last gen was so popular. How is GM supposed to find Accords to rent for the program? And they’d have to change the whole program, commercials, etc. Why would they do all that? The program isn’t even that good – its biased. It’s basically if Honda brought in people like you 1115 and you compared cars for customers. You’d point to the Fusion, Aura, Malibu, and Avenger and be like “This is American. Bad.” Then you’d walk them over to the Accord – “Now this is from Japan (obviously its the best)”. The GM program is just that except its not people like you, but people like GM_SALES

Keep squirming lol I LOVE IT !

People in my area go to Chevy to buy Chevy, and are usually Generational(lifer) buyers.
I have never seen a Toyota at our local Chevy dealership for trade-in, either.
Out of curiosity:
What I would like to see is a Sonata, or Optima, or even Fusion on the lot with thhe Malibu…similar MSRP’s.
If they really want to look good: compare the Malibu to a Sebring….that would help sales!

I agree with you on the Kia Hyundai Fusion Sebring comparo Those are the cars that this new Malibu will compete with
Also if you live in a place where people only buy Chevys you are probably a hick (no offense)

I agree with you on the Kia Hyundai Fusion Sebring comparo Those are the cars that this new Malibu will compete with
Also if you live in a place where people only buy Chevys you are probably a hick (no offense)

Comment by tripleonefive, posted on September3
—————————————
No offense taken. I have live in 4 states,(and 30-90 day stays in CA, FL, CT, NJ, IL) and this one is due to spouses family being here( I was in military for years…).Moved here to be closer to the in-laws(which I do get along with).
So…. yeah, if the in-laws lived in Hawaii when I got out…we’d have went there, lol..
vs the Midwest.
Not bad here, just some of the worst drivers(road ragers) I have ever seen…plus sometimes get 12-18 inches of snow in 24 hours…(and when you lose power for 3-5 days, Not Good).
Anyhow… sorry 2 digress.

Yeah, there are a ton of GM owners in my town of 1,500 people… but, I have noticed in the “city”..13,000+ people, I have seen more and more Sonata’s showing up(More-so than Accord, Camry, Malibu or the Sebring…about on par of the popular Fusion, for new family sedans, in local store lots, etc).
So, GM should, perhaps, be more wary of these guys?
take it eassy.

LJ
I apologize just I should have said the people where you live are probably hicks not yourself

If you are asking should GM be wary of Hyundai the answer is a serious YES. Hyundai is following in the footsteps of the Japanese as far as quality and value. GM definitely has some comp bc they lack the quality. I noticed that I usually see more than one Hyundai in driveways. That Veracruz is fantastic looking I cant wait to drive one. The 08 will come with Navigation to complete it
The Genesis is definitely a winner and from the interior shots Ive seen I like it already. I cant wait to drive one. Hyundai just has to price it right a 3.8 V6 topped out for about 36K sounds about right

1115 – don’t say I’m squirming just because you can’t win the debate. I am smart enough to know that the Malibu won’t outsell the Cam-cord..I just wanted to beat people like you and your new friend here that I knew would say ‘GM is ending the comparision because they are afraid people will go buy a Camcord because GM cars suck”

LJ – your in the military and are leaning towards imports? How patriotic. You must be one of those new ones that go in for the college tuition programs and other benefits.

Your last point was actually pretty valid 1115, Hyundai is getting to be a good competitor. Look how far they’ve come from their ‘86 Excel. They definitely know how to use the currency advantage to price their cars right and still load them with equipment. This is one way they are better than Toy who like to squeeze every last penny out of consumers. I just hate the way how they are trying to do everything like Toyota.

Music to my ears

The aura may be a much better car, but the malibu doesnt have anything better than the other two.

The aura isnt that great i drove one and Im writing a letter to GM so they can get the bricks out of the trunk

“your [sic] in the military and are leaning towards imports? How patriotic.”

Oh my word, Commodore, that is about the most ignorant and pathetic statement I have ever heard. America is a capitalist. We buy what we want. We buy what is good. If ‘American’ car brands are producing crap, then I will look elsewhere. That is American, and that is patriotic. I would argue that continuing to support and buy products that are substandard is unpatriotic. For decades Ford has been able produce crap and can sell it to losers like you who only care that it was made in the ‘good ol’ U.S. of A.’. It’s because of people like you that Ford is close to shutting down because of bankruptcy. If you would have stopped buying crap, Ford would have been forced to improve their product before losing billions. You’re basically saying that buying a Camry or an Accord is unpatriotic right? Let’s take a quick review of the automotive industry right now:

Accords – built in Ohio
Camrys – built in Indiana
Ford Fusion – built in Mexico
Chevy Aveo – built in Korea

So who is providing Americans with jobs? Who is providing America with industry and capital? Who ISN’T laying off employees so they can save a few bucks and send the manufacturing plants outside of the U.S.? It’s not the ‘American’ brands!

And just curious, what other brands do you buy? Because I’m guessing that you have several Japanese electronics. Hell, I’m guessing that 95% of what you own was built in Asia or Mexico. So, since your DVD player was built by a Japanese company, does that make you less patriotic? NO! Then why does buying a car? Get your head out of your arse idiot.

You gotta be kidding me Cyclone of Red. WHY DO YOU THINK TOYOTA AND HONDA ARE BUILDING THEIR CARS IN AMERICA?? THEY DO IT SO THEY CAN GET TO FOOLS LIKE YOU – YOU THINK YOU ARE PROVING AMERICA WITH JOBS AND BLAH BLAH BLAH. YOU ARE ACTUALLY TAKING JOBS AWAY FROM YOUR COUNTRY BECAUSE YOU ARE FORCING GM AND FORD TO LAY OFF WORKERS. WHY DO YOU THINK THE BIG 3 ARE PRODUCING CARS OUTSIDE OF AMERICA?? SO THEY CAN RUN AWAY FROM THINGS IN AMERICA THAT DRAG THEM DOWN LIKE THE UNITED ****IN AUTO WORKERS. TOYOTA AND HONDA DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT NOW DO THEY? IT ISNT ABOUT WHERE THE CAR IS PRODUCED – GM STILL MAKES MORE CARS IN AMERICA THAN ALL FOREIGN COMPANIES DO – ITS ABOUT WHERE THE MONEY GOES. OUR AUTO INDUSTRY MAKES UP ABOUT 6% OF OUR ECONOMY, FOREIGN AUTOMAKERS MAKE UP…OH WAIT, THEY DON’T MAKE UP ANY PART OF OUR ECONOMY, BUT THEY DO MAKE A LARGE CHUNK OF THE JAPANESE ECONOMY.

IT ISN’T LIKE I’M ASKING PEOPLE TO BUY A GRAND PRIX OVER A MAXIMA. I AM ASKING PEOPLE TO consider BUYING AN AMERICAN CAR LIKE THE NEW CTS OVER THE ES330 OR WHATEVER. OR BUY A SATURN AURA OVER A CAMRY OR BUY A PONTIAC G8 OVER A NISSAN MAXIMA OR BUY A BUICK ENCLAVE OVER A LEXUS LAND CRUISER………..

All that aside (sorry for the CAPS), I drive a BMW 6 series. My mom has a Ford Mustang, and I have owned several Asian brands such as Mazda (owned by Ford, I know) and Suzuki (we still have one in Europe) and a Dodge. I have never actually owned a GM car, but I am impressed with what an incredible turn around GM has made from where they were in 2005 to where they are today and where they will be in the future considering all the awesome **** they got coming (new Lacrosse, CTS-V, new Park Ave, G8, Saturn Astra, the next Saturn Aura, the Corvette SS, ect.) My next car will most certainly be a 304HP CTS.

Lastly, why do you think I am making the case again and again for people to consider American brands?? Because I don’t want our automotive industry to go the way of our electronics industry. If I ask you to name one American TV/DVD player maker, you probably could not. And if you did, you’d probably have to use google to find one. Sony, Toshiba, Pioneer, Panasonic, JVC, Nintendo, and many many more ALL headquartered in tokyo, JAPAN!

Great, glad to see you are not the complete idiot your statement made you sound like.

But that still leaves the question of why you would call someone unpatriotic for buying a non-american car…especially when you drive one yourself.

This is fantastic! You are a total fraud Commi I mean Commodore. I knew it ha.

nothing is built in america anymore and we rely to heavily on other countries for goods. and when the **** hits the fan we are all screwed because we cant build anything ourselves.

This is no surprise to me because the Camry is a much better car than the Malibu. This will always be the case. I’m not saying that the Toyota Camry is a good car because it isn’t, its just much better than the Malibu.

YOU PEOPLE ARE CLUELESS!!!

GM is dropping the program because it was a waste of money and resources. GM realized that whether or not they put the Crappery or Accordian on the showroom floor, the Malibu is and will always be the class leader in the segment. People buy Malibus in droves, having the Toyota and Honda on the showroom floor is just unfair so GM is doing the classy thing by saving them the embarrassment.

They’re dropping the program because they realizes that people are getting a firsthand look at the Camry up close, and NO ONE believes that GM reliability tops Totyotas. In other words, they’re showing the competitor off.

As if it makes sense to buy several thousand camrys for a head to head comparo.

Getting a good product out there is the paramount thing, then luring former customers back.

They dont need a gimmick.

If they want to compare interiors, just buy some rubbermaid bins and a sony dream machine alarm clock and use that in place of a camry **** heap interior.

The Malibu’s not the class leader in this segment. They’re fighting for a toehold in this segment, which is owned by Camry and Accord and has been since the Ford Taurus committed suicide. The Malibu is an interesting car but an unproven quantity and nobody will believe it’s better than the Asian cars in a head-to-head matchup. When that GM spokeswoman says, “We really just didn’t think that was the best approach we could come up with,” she meant, “We knew we’d get killed.”

How the hell they plan to compete with superior products? 4 cyl. with 4 speed (30 years old tranny) against 4 cylss. with 5 speed. 6 cyls. with 250 HP against 270? They can compare 2008 Malibu against 2007(i.e. 2004) Accord, but against 2008 Accord 2008 Malibu looks obsolete. In 2008 Accord 4 cyls engine pumps out 190 HP! Yes it cost more today and much more at resale value. GM has to employ magicians to change that perception. And if anyone drove 2007 Malibu and 2007 Accord he would feel the difference, that can not be explained by numbers alone. What are the chances that 2008 Malibu outhandle 2008 Accord?

Cyclone of Red,
The average domestic parts content for GM is 77%. The average domestic parts content for Toyota is 47%. Assembled in the U.S. does not equate to made in the U.S. GM alone employs more than all the major foreign automakers combined. In fact, the Big Three employ more than three times as many Americans as do ALL of the foreign automakers combined. And 80% of those foreign jobs are in sales! In addition, domestic parts content means that GM supports more domestic suppliers.

You’re on the anti-domestic bandwagon but don’t have a reason why.

^ And herein lies the problem Bryce. Employing vast numbers of UAW commies is not a good thing, especially when you are outsold by a foreigner with a tighter logistics plan and fewer employees.

Supporting GM means supporting hyperunionized communists that are hellbent on destroying the free-market capitalist principles that allow us to pull ahead of the pack and succeed if we so desire.

Being anti-domestic auto manufacturers is the most American thing one can do.

autonut is an ass. You are an army of one who really believes the Accord is as good a car as the Malibu. Do you have any idea what you are claiming with such false B.S.? The Accord has never been a leader in quality like the Malibu, has never been a leader in value, unlike the Malibu, and has never been a leader in reliability, ALSO ALSO unlike the Chevrolet Malibu. Good luck getting a flawless experience out of a Camcord like the millions who get that out of the Malibu.

Get your head out of your ass, you sound stupid.

Deanster,
Not necessarily. The money doesn’t stay inside the U.S. And I have an agenda to support my own job. And, although it’s not tangible, there is something important about supporting what comes from America. If it’s never improved then foreign competition will always be better. Why would anyone want a foreign anything to be better than domestic?

And I don’t argue with your anti-union sentiments.

1487_GM_SALES I wish you professional success and many sales.
I just plucked numbers out of automobile publications and Camry is ranked #1 in sales of sedans followed by Accord. Malibu is not in this picture. As far as quality satisfaction, either JD Power or Consumer Report will pick up Camry and Accord over Malibu. Accord has been on top 10 cars list in Car and Driver since introduction and I yet to see a Malibu. Millions don’t get flawless experience out of Malibu: few (very few as a matter of fact) buy that car. As a matter of fact I had my experience with Maxx & Malibu at a rental companies. Thanks to rental fleets Chevy sells few of those vehicles in USA. I never could rent Accords (could rent Camry).
I understand where you livelihood comes from and your loyalties of course are driven by economics, but most of consumers in US and worldwide do buy Camrys and Accords and don’t buy Malibu.

“They should have scrapped the Camry idea and instead parked the new Malibu end-to-end with an A—a TL, and dared their customers to tell the difference!

Auttonutt: easy: The ‘bu is the better car. By the way, if you don’t like the Malibu, that’s fine, but don’t insult it by comparing to the RetardLine Accord

LJ: Sebring is Horrid

1115: On my way to get my last tester (A taurus), I had the opportunity to check out a Veracruz. Impressive!

Cyclone: built or assembled. But long ago, that stuff stopped matterinmg to me. I drive an olds built in michigan, but it could have easily been a Mazda built in japan. Just give me something decent, at a decent price

Commodore: if someone needs to be told to by the CTS over the camry, he’s a fool, and no amount of talking sense to him will change that. maxima, on the other hand is a good car

easy: The ‘bu is the better car. By the way, if you don’t like the Malibu, that’s fine, but don’t insult it by comparing to the RetardLine Accord

Ha

Why do you aleays see little american flags on hondas, but almost never on Jeeps? I think a $20K car is more of a statement than a 99-cent flag that was probably printed in China.

bauer: you’ve got a point.

Sunsine you’re so full of crap, you must be constipated for life. the camry is better than the accord/tl, AND THAT’S IT. every other commuter coffin is better! Yes, the sebring, Yes the Optima, and HELL YES the Malibu!!

GM Sales: I disagree: Those cars need to be there, so people can see how much better the epsilon is.

But, GM sales the accord is as good as the malibu — if you take the engine out of the malibo and replace it with a block of stale cheese, remove two tires from the rims and make sure the electrical system in the malibu fails once an hour. do that, and it’s a matchup of equals

Bryce: if people THINK camcords are better — even if that be untrue — it’ll force the Big 3 to make better vehicles, so we all win.

Well, esteemed intellectuals 1487_GM_SALES and jackjimturkey how do you you know which car is better? You could not drive both of them even if you are colleagues at GM. Both cars came out in pictures only.
I stand by comments on 2007 Malibu and 2007 Accord: please let me know which rental company has Accord and I can tell you that Avis, Budget and Enterprise all rent Malibus by the dozen. That is where I “test drove” Malibus. Do you ever wondered why? Common geniuses put some pressure on your skulls – perhaps you can a have stool.

I may find fault in someone rooting for foreign domination over the U.S. when it comes to car product (although everyone here is free to root for whomever they choose), but I have no problem with someone buying what they believe is a superior product–foreign or otherwise.

I’m not toting a copy of Adam Smith everywhere, but, as an example, if buyers purchase cars solely because they’re American, and not because they believe they are the most reliable, most economic, most well-built, etc., then the U.S. car industry will fail. And yes, design and aesthetics are a part of that. For most people, car purchases ranks up there with one’s education and home as among the three most expensive personal investments. No one would expect someone to buy a home that has all the features he desires, but is ugly as sin, or uses cheap parts.

Sure, for competition’s sake, the U.S. would fare better if foreign makes weren’t so damn good, but that’s not the case. Detroit won’t build a more reliable car if consumers don’t buy more reliable cars, and that’s a forumla that will eventually hurt all consumers of U.S. cars. I happen to think that the Lambda CUV’s are aethetically pleasing and are offering good content at reasonable prices, which, in my mind, makes them a legitimate competitor to Acura, Mazda, and the like. Malibus aren’t there yet, but who knows…

And maybe the Malibu promotion was scrapped because it just didn’t work for Saturn. Saturn would never publish those stats, if it even kept them, but how many people test drove the Aura against the Japanese and then walked out and drove down the street to a Honda dealer?….

1487 should be 187 GM sales because someone needs to be murdered for putting out such crap as Gm does
The bottom line is the Malibu SUCKS! GM knows it, the consumers know i,t and GM Sales and JJT know it Its not up to par with even a 98 Accord/Camry let alone a 2007 or 2008 Accord or Camry.
This car is heavy bulky and designed ****ty just like most GM’s and domestics. You can make all the excuses that you want but this car wont sell unless it sells to rental fleets where Ill get stuck with it when I go on my trips. The only advantage to renting those cars is that when i get home it makes my car feel even better. I make sure and tell the company that the GM sucks when I bring it back. Its too bad the Japanese cars are so good that you cant rent them. Hopefully I can get my hands on a Hyundai so I can see how much better it drives compared to the Americant’s

The 2000 Malibu was a piece of crap, will a new Malibu help GM ??

Can people trust GM with their hard earned money ?

The 2000 Malibu SHOULD have been a car to trust, now is already too late.

GM_Sales kills me. I really think he makes this **** up just to stir the hornet nest.

At one point I owned a 98 accord and my wife owned a 98 Malibu similar mileage, same color, etc.

Guess which one was falling apart? – Malibu
Guess which one rattled? – Malibu
Guess which one had laughable fit and finish? – Malibu
Guess which one had terrible materials and felt cheap? – Malibu
Guess which one had a 6k worse value? – Malibu
Guess which one had cheaper parts – Malibu

I guess you’re right the Malibu wins hands down! Can’t believe I would ever get rid of something that would take home that many awards!

Now so that I don’t get flamed for being a domestic hater, the vehicle we replaced it with was a 03 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited and that rig has been solid. The wife absolutely loves it, and well so do I.

Shop around and find the vehicle that best meets your needs and financial situation.

- BACK ON POINT – I would think it would cost more then it would be worth to have your competition sitting right next to you. It’s part of the consumer’s responsibility to search, compare and decide which vehicle they need. It’s an amateur move to compare the product like that. You see that with up and coming companies, not established corporations.

jkt

Scarface03, I agree with you 100%. But let put facts to lite: Foreign domination does not exist in American market. Due to currency fluctuation it is more advantageous for Asian manufacturers to assemble in old US of A.
I am not employed by Japanese car manufactures and one out 3 of my cars is GM product. Let me be fair: as much GM as GM can be. It has Toyota engine, tranny and the rest of running gear and I bought it from Pontiac dealer (it is Vibe GT). But in fairness, which other GM vehicle had more American content then Pontiac Vibe? Some of them assembled in US and most isn’t. Parts used in assembly come from Mexico, Canada, China. Chevy Equinox engine comes from China and tranny from Japan (during vehicle introduction GM called it world car). Camry is made in Lexington KY and Accord in Ohio. Including engine and transmission. Yes, the profits will end up on Tokyo exchange more then on NY, so what? I believe there are more Americans assembling Toyota in USA then Chrysler’s. Yes UAW does not get their share out of Toyota and Honda, but UAW was the cause that made Toyota and Honda #2 and #4 in this country. Every dog has it’s day.

autonut, you must be new here. Regular users know better than to waste any time responding to GM_Sales. Everyone knows he is out of touch with reality. Any good points he could have are overshadowed by the blindly ignorant pro-GM posts he usually contributes.

I bet the only thing that will ever go wrong on your Vibe will be the Toyota sourced engine and transmission. That is why the Vibe will be gone after 2008. It doesn’t have the quality or reliability of your typical GM as it is dragged down by a garbage motor and transmission that leave it’s owners stranded regularly. Get a clue.

As for the Malibu, it has been said over and over again in the auto publications that the new Malibu is superior to anything in its class. Look at the Saturn Aura, a world class car, held back by limited production. People are lined up out the door to get in to an Aura, they’ll sacrafice whatever little value they have left in their Accords and Camrys just to get out of that crap and in to a much better Saturn. We can lowball those folks thousands less than book value and yet they still beg us to get them out of their pile of sh*t.

And it’s not even Honda and Toyota people. We get even more VW and Mazda owers who are dying to have us take them out of their cars and put them in Saturns. Even the leftover Saturn Relay minivans, we can’t hold them. People are knocking down our doors to get them into our products. And those that can’t will be the ones buying up all the Malibus.

So much for the Camry. The Malibu will be the #1 selling car by next year. Never to look back.

Imagining the fun GM_SALES must have writing these posts makes me want to create a new name…maybe 1487_FORD_SALES. Making up B.S. about how Ford is vastly superior to all other makes would be both a challange and vastly entertaining.

I love gmsales comedy. its like hes really serious!!!!! not to mention his jealousy!

“Even the leftover Saturn Relay minivans, we can’t hold them”…?!?!

I just choked on my afternoon cookie.

This guy could’ve been Saddam Hussein’s propaganda man.

Unsold Saturn Relays are being dumped into the sea to make artificial reefs. The Relay/Upland was rated the worst-built, most unreliable vehicle in all of GM-land.

lol if you say theyre (saturn relays) selling how come I rarely see any??

Tom-
I’ve got 122K on my A-Body.
The Only things I don’t like about the Relay/Uplander
1) It’s a Minivan
2) Rear seat only folds 50/50

This is an older post, but just to get the record straight on the partriotic thing, i care not where the car is assembled but where the company that makes the car is headquartered.

Toyota is in Tokyo City, JAPAN. MOST of the money goes back there. When people buy american cars, the money is kept within our AMERICAN economy and it goes back to either Detroit, Auburn Hills, etc. I understand that GM is trying to get away form the United Auto Workers and THAT is why they are forced to make countries in Mexico and Canada.

Everyone buy American dont worry about quality resale or reliability
Just buy American and GM wont move any factories to Mexico (Look up sarcasm)