GM is going to get accused of developing an “alternative” energy car that is far beyond the means of most people to purchase. And this could result in more consumer level backlash against the company.

Hmm.. This is not looking good for GM.

Yikes, 40k? Yeah, I don’t think so. GM, thanks for playing…

A noble effort by GM to build a “different” car, but the very high price, and unproven reliability of this thing will keep people far away from this thing, no matter how hard GM tries to sell this thing. Things are not looking good for GM, but atleast they aren’t in bad shape like Ford.

Shouldn’t have crushed all those EV-1’s.
Billions of dollars lost.

I find it rather surprising that so far no one has let it hit them that the car is technically newer than anything anyone else has brought to market before. Then again look whose griping about it.

Just like a new piece of consumer electronics, the price will come down, but the company building the thing still has to make their money on it. I’m disappointed that the cost seems to keep going up but at least it is very truly close to going on sell.

GM really should just break down and make versions for other divisions, not just the “cheap” division Chevrolet. Maybe as a Cadillac or BUICK as has been speculated before. At least the cost would be easier to justify and there would be a faster return on the initial investment with more than just the one version.

As for trying to write this car off before it has shipped, one should wait and see. I don’t think cost will be a deal breaker for this car, even if some out there will not be will or able to foot the bill for it. Someone said a while back on another thread that through are people who are will to pay out big for a Hybrid.. even if it was just a gimmick. This was in reference to LEXUS hybrids.

Up the content, sell more than just one division version, and work very hard on simplifying the tech to make it less expensive and usable in various types of vehicle. Otherwise, still bring it. It will sell. People out there will buy it. The trick is making it so MORE people can and will buy it.

Even if the Government does not pass the tax incentive, the money you save not buying gas for it will offset the the extra cost of the vehicle. Plus, it doesn’t look like a dust-buster.

GM should introduce the Volt as a Canadian exclusive and run with a $40k sticker.

The Prius and the Camry Hybrid have a base price of about $30k and the Accord Hybrid has a base price of about $40k. They’re pricing relics from when our dollar was only worth 65 cents US.

Now that the dollars are pretty much on par GM should break even.

This is getting a bit annoying, one week it is 32k with no tax breaks, then it is 37k with no tax breaks, following week it is 30k with tax breaks. I guess it is a good thing they have another 18 months to figure this whole pricing issue out. Then all they have to do is figure out where they are going to get the batteries to power this bad boy!

According to what I read at http://www.chevy-volt.net they have even more problems with propulsion than pricing!

If it is good it will sell. Prius doesn’t sell on price

I agree with moto-racer (now there’s a first) in that there is going to be a definite wait and see attitude when the Volt debuts. And is GM expecting us to feel sorry for them? Is this the automotive equivalent of a sympathy f*ck? I don’t care that you’re late into the game or that if this thing isn’t a home run Lutz may not get his hush money. Just quit whining and trying to make out like you’ve discovered the wheel all over again. It’s just another car, and if you can’t build it and price it at the point where people will buy it I’m sure there’s someone else out there who can. Oh wait… that would be the Japanese.

I heard it was supposed to be under $30k for the Volt

A Buick version is a great idea, they should call it Buick Skylark, and as long as it’s attractively designed it will sell well.

This is not just another car for GM.
This is a window into the State Of The Union.
But, unlike the other dozens of times GM has claimed they are ready to compete with Honda/Toyota, this may be their last stand!
Pick-Ups are foolish purchases if not used commercially, and now Americans are ready to admit that.
Large BOF SUVs are obsolete.
America won’t even be able to build Vettes and Vipers of any magnatiude anymore.
GM needs to get smart, and get small, FAST!
They’ve only had 30 years to see how it’s done.
Volt will be GM’s Camry/Accord/Beetle.
They are sinking, and this is their last lifesaver.
Ford and Chrysler are beyond saving.
GM has enough talent for one more saving throw.
Make it count.
DrFill

Nah the Vette and Viper will persist. There will always be those willing to buy them just as their are those willing to throw down the money for a European sports car, coupe, and/or sedan, in Europe where gas has not been cheap for at least a quarter century.

If anything the Vette and Viper will only get better. Not brainlessly more powerful but better. Smarter designs that make more effective use of the power they have. Though. The Viper will likely get stuck with a smaller engine in time.

Detroit isn’t going away. But they do need to change.

Putting all their eggs into the beds of Full-sized trucks and SUVs was foolish and most people knew that at least 10 years ago..Especially when it was almost impossible to get an American car with RWD and a V8 then. Car fans were really on that first, but for their own reasons.

In time, I think almost all our favorite cars will be very different from what we know now. Will they be little egg-beaters? Nah, If anything they will be just as bad-ass but a lot smarter and more advanced about it.

Doomsaying is pointless. Detroit has their livelihoods, investors and pride to think of. But is would be nice for Chrysler and Ford to be more open about what they are doing. Treating such important projects like some “black site” operation is almost as foolish as thinking things will return to normal once gas prices normalize or at least stabilize.

Ford has no less than six hybrid projects but has yet to give so much as a possible release date. We don’t need more concept cars, we need product. Chrysler rolled out a trio of very promising concepts and they still have a solid rep for getting concepts to the road, so what are they doing?

They should be treating this like a “war effort” and do everything they can to secure their survival as quickly as possible.

Compare this to how Honda is managing their fuel cell vehicle, the FCX Clarity:
1. It’s not for sale. The best you can do is lease it for $600/month. This includes maintenance and insurance
2. It will be a very limited production model and only available in Southern California; this ensures Honda Engineering can keep tabs on each vehicle.
3. Honda interviews and selects leasees; you just can’t walk into any dealer and order one. This ensures people getting one know its capabilities and won’t abuse it.
4. The funding for the Clarity is coming from R&D and marketing; Honda will not make enough money from the leases to cover the actual costs of the vehicle.
This is the right way to handle an advanced new technology vehicle until production costs and capabilities make it competitive on the market. GM needs to pay attention.

I agree with LaCarLover - if someone wanted to save money, the average person would buy a $10,000 Aveo and drive it for 5 years. That will cost you less money than a Prius which takes much more than 5 years to break even in terms of money saved on gas vs. the premium paid over a car like the Aveo.

And don’t be so negative LLN - “Every time we hear of an update on the Chevrolet Volt, it seems to be either that it is not likely to make its projected November 2010 launch date or will cost more than originally planned.” - what was up with that? That is not true. A lot of the recent stories are about how well GM is meeting its deadlines by already having the Volt body finished and that the mules are getting OVER 40 miles on electricity alone

Nissan should bring that electric car their parent company Renault tested in Israel to trump everyone

global_lightning, GM doesn’t need to “pay attention” to how Honda is doing it. In case you forgot or just didn’t know, GM INVENTED that way of releasing/testing “advanced new technology” vehicles with its EV1 more than 10 years ago.

The entire point of the Volt is that it’s NOT that level of vehicle. It is a mass-produced, mass-sold electric vehicle.

I can’t wait to see the actual production vehicle. I do believe they will pull it off, but likely at a price point that is beyond the capability of the average car buyer. Perhaps they should release it under the Cadillac brand. All it would need is some edgier styling as god knows it will already be loaded with tons of gee-whiz gadgets and gauges.

In Soviet Russia, tax breaks YOU!!

^ In Canada too, Olds.

SigmaHyperion, a simple point in marketing (and in military science) always assessing competition, for that reason GM starting to look at Honda very late. EV1 was invented 100 years ago: in the beginning of last century there were “ladies” electric cars roaming in US. EV1 could not be sold it was leased or given to be driven, due to price. Honda and Toyota produce vehicles which sell in droves and there is waiting list for them. It would be nice for GM to be in their shoes. Alas, Lutz promotes Volt that very few will be able to afford. Volt is not all that different then Tesla or Karma: for half the price you get half the electric range and small portion of performance. This is bad rocket science.

If Toyota got major tax credits for the Prius and its other hybrids, GM should certainly get them for the Volt too. To not do so would be a real slap in the face to our own automotive industry, and congress should be ashamed.

xyunya (#22),

I doubt anyone would question that it is ironic that nearly every automaker is scrambling to develop electrically motivated vehicles when they were developed quite well, given the tech of the time, about a century ago. It is strange the sports car makers did not at least dabble in it as it was obvious that electric cars are quicker and better suited for racing, gas-electrics anyway.

But what i think you are missing is the axiom “you get what you pay for” and in case you forgot, performance costs. Otherwise, a CORVETTE would cost half as much and a 911 would cost about $30K. Considering that the VOLT costs half as much as a FISKER Karma, gets about 80% (40 miles as opposed to 50miles) of the battery range as the FISKER, and will easily fulfill the needs of the buyer, as an early product, it is extremely good.

As to cost, I can foot the bill for a $40K car. Especially one that is going to save me money. Just because you can not does not mean others can not as well. $40k is actually pretty inexpensive for such an advanced car. No it isn’t a tire shredder and track burner, but what it is a piece of a future that you are clearly too keen to find fault with to appreciate.

Economics of a $40K Hybrid car.

- $40,000 for a CHEVROLET VOLT.
- 72 month car note (keep reading).
- Equals $555.56 month ignoring interest.
- Save a MINIMUM of $100.00 a month, for 72 months, on gas not burned.
- Car payment equals $455.56 a month. You put that gas saving against the cost of the car. Consider it an investment for now.
- Car note effectively equal $32,800. This is without a down payment, and/or trade-in, and/or tax incentives.
- Assume a small down payment of $5000 and the cost of the VOLT is effectively, after 72 months, $27,800. $1490 more than the Camry Hybrid, size analogy, that is ultimately the better hybrid.

* interest, tax, fees, and gas savings will vary from market to market and so final figures may vary widely.

Blakkar, you can’t remove a down payment from the cost of a vehicle. It “effectively” cost whatever you paid for it — the TOTAL of whatever you paid for it. I agree you don’t necessarily have to include interest and taxes and the like, since that’s wash between all cars, but you can’t take $5000 off the price as a “down payment” then say that it’s pretty close to the competition. Otherwise you might as well take $10,000 off the price as a down payment and call it cheaper than the competition.

All that said, your point still stands…

The average commute in the US is 15 miles each way — so 30 miles. If we assume someone also drives an average of 30 miles on the weekends as well, the car will save 11,000 miles a year of gasoline usage. It will never have to use its’ motor.
That will save $150/month @ $4/gallon over a car that got an average of 25mpg. That’s $80/month more than they’d get using a Prius. Over a period of 6 years they’d save about $6,000 more than if they’d bought the Prius.
If they drove the full 50 miles the car can on charge every single day they’d save $300/month @ $4/gallon over a car that got an average of 25mpg. That’s $150/month more than they’d get using a Prius. Over 6 years, that’d save them almost $22,000 and almost $11,000 more than they’d save buying a Prius.

Of course that’s all things staying the same. Gas prices may go up, go up an awful lot, or even go down. The Prius will get its new batteries which will allow it similar operation to the Volt. Or something else might come out even better. You never know.

In NY there’s talk of eliminating sales tax on new Hybrid/Alternative fuel vehicles. The tax rate in my county is 8%, which saves $3,200 off the top. Then there will be federal tax credits (although I’m sure the IRS will find a way to make up for the sales tax rebate). Figuring an average 5.9% APR and $0 down, payments will be about 775/mo for 60 months. For every $1,000 tax credit the fed doles out, the payment drops about $20.

Let’s compare that to a $25,000 car getting 30 combined MPG, 15k/yr. Tax is $2,000, 60 mo payment is about $520. At $4/gal, gas costs $200/mo, for a total monthly of $720.

I know electricity will have a cost associated with it, and that’s the key factor. But it seems like that $40K price point isn’t crazy in my eyes, given all the costs and benefits associated with it. It sure seems people will go to crazy lenghts to parade around with a Hybris sticker on their car as it is…

SigmaHyperion (#26),

Sorry My mistake, cutting the down payment out. Trade-in would be more likely but you might not get that much except on a high content car, or a car that just costs a bundle already.

Still the economics favor hybrids despite cost. It is pretty bad that the cost isn’t down low and competitive with current cars now but this level of technology demands a certain cost. In time, these machines will come down, and pretty quickly as infrastructure and components are worked out.

But one thing that can bring down the cost now is to build simpler machines. Gas-electric or All-electric cars make more sense to me. But right now, buying a “hybrid” is basically buying a car with two powertrains.

Pick on or the other but not both. You can have the battery back up but that is what it is, a back up or supplement but not a seperate system. You can have your Gas-electric generator to charge the battery and/or move the car and the battery to move to car for shorter ranges. The electronics and mechanicals are much simpler and so cost is limited only to the addition of the batteries and some electronics. So the cost might be like having to pay a V8 price for the V6. A few thousand dollars.

You can cut costs further if 100mpg, factoring in ZFU miles, if not that high on your list. We already know of Diesel engines that will return 100mpg or close to it that can be used to run the generator or some alternative engine design to the same effect. Getting at least 50mpg and still having performance in line with current performance expectations at a cost marginally above the current norm.

Just drop the batteries, I still boost for Capacitors, use Capacitor arrays or smaller batteries packs for boost at launch or passing. It saves costs and you still get the better F/econ you were looking for, if not as much of it.

You can have it right now for a fortune or some of it at a lower cost.