wow i didnt even know GM had a CVT

They don’t anymore!

I cant wait to hear the spin on how that was the “old GM” The New GM is the old GM The new vehicles are getting recalled just like the old ones
I find it hilarious when I hear people on this board say “Give GM a chance”

Speaking of class action lawsuits, where did all the ones involving engine sludge end up? I believe there were suits filed against Chrysler, Toyota, VW and probably more.

I find it even more hilarious when tripleonefluffer’s beloved Honda had a massive failure rate with their Acura CL/TL’s transmissions from the same model years as GM’s Saturn problems. Only Honda’s transmission failures were occuring before the cars even reached 50,000 miles and they weren’t even new-tech CVTs. They were just plain old automatic transmissions.

Didn’t Toyota have a problem with their vehicles suddenly and unexpectedly accelerating? Didn’t they get off the hook when the government pretty much called 300+ accident victims liars? Am I the only one left in the World who is amazed that Ford, Toyota, Honda, GM, Mercedes, Skoda, etc. can make vehicles that can travel thousands of miles without a tune-up? I’m reminded of how, just prior to WWII many Americans had never travelled beyond the next town over. Now we complain about minutia-and that’s fine. It’s fine to come on Leftlane and voice an opinion that one company makes more reliable vehicles than another. It’s fine to say that one thinks a certain company has a better fit-and-finish. However, I’m amazed at the blanket vitriol that some accord to manufacturers of certain countries or regions. Why do some delight in the failure of others? Schadenfreude anyone? Whatever happened to specific criticism? I know I’m barking up the pointless tree and inviting heaps of criticism. And no, this plaintive post isn’t pointed at anyone in particular; but, rather, the totality of circumstances as they exist today.

I find it funny that it was a minor issue with Honda which is why there is not a massive recall and the cars affected had the warranty extended and the issue was taken care of.
I also find it funny that Honda continues to make a better quality car with higher resale value than GM I find it funnier that GM is supposed to be biulding quailty cars now but they seem to run in to the same old issues. Toyota and Honda cars are more reliable than GM Ford and Chrysler and this is FACT not opinion
The Toyota case was unfounded I think there is a story on this website pertaining to that

Isn’t the truly hilarious aspect of all this that Toyota execs are on record saying they don’t want the American auto-manufacturers to falter? They have said that a failed GM would breed ill-will and make their own parts supplies more expensive. Moreover, we all know what would happen. Politicians who have sat on the fence would have to start calling for the introduction of the U.A.W. to foreign-owned production plants in the U.S. And we can all see where it would spin out of control from there. So, again, the truly hilarious thing is that foreign auto-execs are smart enough to know they can’t survive in the U.S. market without strong U.S. competitors. Though, maybe some of the domestic detractors on Leftlane know a little more than the wise old sages of the companies that are infallible.

I’ve yet to drive a Toyota or Honda that I personally like, but I have no problem with others preferring them. I can also own up to the fact that the Japanese auto industry made a lot of smart decisions and they have built cars that many folks want. So, tripleonefive, have a nice day and enjoy your driving experience. I think I’m going to go enjoy my own experience in my Swedish-made vehicle, which is safer than anything made by the Japanese. That is FACT and not opinion.

The CVT transmission was fail attempt to help out with better fuel economy and a smother ride, I was selling Ford cars when the Ford Freestyle came out, for every one we sold, one came back on a tow truck, 6 months later Ford stop all sells of anything with a CVT trans. Ford bought back about 40% of the CVT cars. The smart thing they did was get-rid of the CVT trans. that was built by a 3rd party that Ford did not own a part of.

Well you either drive a Saab but more likely drive a Volvo both of which I like but do not like and could never buy due to their parent companies
If you have FACT like to prove that swedish cars are safer than Japanese cars or that Swedish women have meatballs in their thongs vs Japanese woman having sushi in theirs then please provide it. I would love to see how they are safer

Actually I meant to say I DO like but could never buy due to their parent companies

What I find REALLY interesting is that, according to the article, the problem is these trannys routinely failing before 125K miles. No offense, but since when is this the manufacturers standard? It wasn’t all that long ago that 100K was the end of life for almost any car. That a tranny goes at 125K - I think that has been a fair life. And BTW, the warranty was 36K.

And 1115’s take on that Honda tranny issue is utter BS. In fact, those cars have horrible tranny problems according to INDEPENDENT service information databases (I discovered it in NAPAFix).

The truth is that all manufacturers suffer mechanical failures - all of them. Honda is no exception.

DUDE I thank you posted your commit on the wrong page… I’m just saying…

My Bad I just did that….

Sorry to take so long to get back to you tripleonefive . . . were ya waitin’ with bated breath? I will assume that you are relying on Consumer Reports (hereinafter: C.R.) for your skeptical view of our Swedish friends; so, I will address the issue from that perspective. Over the past few years, I’ve noticed that Volvo (yes, that’s my “brand”) has not been getting the top picks for safety from C.R.. However, rather than it being a failing of Volvos as a car, it seems to be due to the poor strategic planning of Ford execs. The Japanese cars that do well are noted, by C.R., as having done well because they made the excellent decision of making things like “ESC” standard on their vehicles whereas someone at Ford or Volvo decided to make an important safety feature like ESC optional. So, I am utterly willing to own that much of the empirical data will support, what I assume is, your contention of Japanese safety superiority. However, as all mature adults know, one must make decisions about whom to trust. My personal preference is to believe Volvo’s own literature, which details the far more strenuous tests they run for their own vehicles and that touts their numerous, admittedly, optional safety features. The other basis of my belief in Volvo’s safety is the mountain of normative evidence. I have heard police officers, first responders, accident survivors, doctors, etc. all wax on about accidents that people would not have survived, but for their Volvo. Is this empirically provable evidence? No, but, then, you are a smart guy tripleonefive, and you will have to own that it was utterly obvious I was being facetious in my use of your own words vis-a-vis “fact.”

Really, the sad thing is that Ford has made the poor choice of making relatively cheap safety features, like ESC (that, I have read, only adds $80-$200 to the price of most vehicles) optional. The Japanese automakers, on the whole, have made the brilliant decision to make many, if not all, of the leading safety features today standard in their autos. Such decisions are obviously economic. Why does Toyota make said equipment standard and Ford optional? I am one of the believers in the stories from ex-Toyota execs who say that the Japanese government makes massive “donations” to certain companies to fund their research and cut the price of their autos. This, of course, is predatory pricing and would be illegal if ever proven. We all know it is unlikely anyone could ever prove such a thing, so it will be remain a conspiracy theory believed by some.

Now, my conspiracy belief aside, you will say, “but the sheer fact that the Volvos don’t come with those safety options proves my point!” To which I will reply, why does anyone buy a Volvo? I would wager that most people buy Volvos because they believe in their “legendary safety.” As such, Volvo buyers are probably apt to purchase those optional safety features that make them as safe or safer than their Japanese counterparts. Beyond my simple arguments tripleonefive, I will admit that the empirical data I have seen in the past few years mostly favors your stance; however, I have also been too lazy to go out and research more (because I am already behind in some of my schoolwork). So, enjoy your weekend tripleonefive, I’m done replying. This has been a wonderful tete-a-tete, but I am sure the other readers here are tired of my long and off-topic posts.

There was an issue with the CVT 3.5L engine from Honda because it was shipped in parts. Meaning GM had to put it together. Honda did not send the engine already put together.

Issues with Honda automatic transmission was already old by this time (dating back to mid-1990’s) but Honda honored their customers by extending the warrenty of the engine.

Why didn’t GM simply meet the consumer half way, without any lawsuits. Look these people OWN a Saturn, they are your payed costumers. GM should have just offered to fix any transitions for vehicles affected.

Now How many of those who participated in the lawsuit will again buy a GM vehicle? I bet very, very few. That may explain why Saturn is in a gutter.

“Mike the loser”
Most lawsuits are not file by the “victim’s” , they are filed sometimes by a government body, like the National Highway Safety Board, of a State’s Department of Transportation mostly if vehicles are ruled out unsafe, like what happened to Ford & Firestone back in the 90s”, But the bad ones are by privet law firms that make a case and try to find people to represent, I’m sure you and seen the commercial on TV, the one of the bad hip replacements, the law offices of (Jame’s Socolove) that’s close to the real name I will hate for then to look for me, they try to get like 100 or more “victim’s” and charge a grip in legal fees, it is elegal in California to do this, but they did start here, they go to other states to file there claims, trust me the auto makers will love to resolve there legal issues under the table so that they never see the lite of day, but it is to these firms that spend a ton of money dragging the skeleton out of the closet, so at the end whatever the reason that the CVT trans turn out bad, still I’m surprise there was a lawsuit over it….

And I’m guessing “More oil for GM” worked on that assemblies line that’s why he hasn’t commented on this…… He Cracks-Me-Up!!!!!

I’m actually in the process right now of having Saturn fix/ buy my car back for this problem. I have an 03 Ion with that piece of crap VTi tranny with only 88k miles on it. They have absolutely no torque and make an annoying noise all the time. At first they tried to deny having any problem with the Ion, but after blasting several customer service reps for GM and dragging more people through the gutter, i finally got to someone up high who admitted the problem. All it takes is threatening to go to the Attorney General and then you can make them bend over backwards for you. Theres ton of evidence only of these pieces of crap going out, so if you’re in the same boat like me and still owe $7k on one of these, then you need to go reame GM and make them help you. ITS NOT YOUR FAULT and dont let them make you think it either, whether you car has 30k or 130 miles on it! Its good to see something finally happening to them though for putting people through this. Its not like the people that drive these things anyways, have a whole lot of money to pay $6k for a new tranny. These things got horrible gas mileage too! Mine on a good day only got between 17 and 23 to the gallon. I use to be a solid GM fan, but after this and driving my wifes Toyota, i’m sold on them! Her Tundra has close to 95k on it and it drives like it was brand new. No squeaking, wind noise, loose steering, its all still tight!

Dirtydeeds is the type of person i was talking about, someone with that type of experience will not go back. GM knows they have a horrible image to begin with, they should have accommodated the people before Attorney General, before the press and before the lawyers. That way they would still taken a financial hit (just like they did now) but at the end they would have retained the costumer and i think would made those people believers of GM.

Also, note that we are talking about Saturn here, it is more or less targeted to younger people, GM has just lost yet another young crowd. So i do not want anyone in here to b.i.t** that ohhh people are dumb and are uninformed, GM now makes far better vehicles. That may or may not be the case, but why would these people ever again take a chance, they can get a far better vehicle in Honda or Toyota.

Oh, another ‘expert’ in Mike…. If you think that Honda or Toyota is any different, I have some Arizona beach front property I’d like to show you.

Interesting article. GM is apparently also offering to settle a class action lawsuit filed in Canada for repairs and failures due to intake manifold gasket leaking on the 3.4 litre V6. GM would have a much better image if they were more pro-active about known problems, such as the transmission in Saturns and the leaking 3.4’s. Instead, they deny that it is a problem while busily issuing recalls for latches on console bins.

My ‘03 Vue has the VTi paired with the 2.2 Ecotec (they didn’t offer the AWD with a manual and I live in Nova Scotia). I’m at about 110k km (68k mi) on this car, and the tranny, though kind of annoying when you need to put the hammer down, is running flawlessly. Honestly, 200k km is a good long way to travel. I’ve been hearing and reading about the CVT failures since I bought the car, but never has anyone mentioned that the average failure happens at 125k mi. Considering the troubles Subaru went through with their ECVT back in the 90’s, I’m surprised GM’s lasts as well as it does. Just not as long as a bullet-proof GM Automatic usually runs.

If my tranny dies at 200k, I’ll certainly not be complaining about ‘premature failure’. VW trannies used to ‘routinely’ implode every 50k mi or less, but people still rave about their ‘German engineering’.

125k is the average lifespan of an automatic tranny anyway. If these CVT’s are failing at 125k, I don’t see what the problem is.

CVTs seem like trouble from the get go. By design there is more inherent weaknesss then in a std auto. You will never see one in a HD truck app and for a reason.

There’s a reason you won’t. CVT’s are designed for improved economy in light duty passenger vehicles, not in work trucks. You won’t see many Civic transmissions hauling a trailer full of rocks either, engine beside the point.

They’re a great idea, if a little hard to get used to. Nissan seems to have a pretty sturdy one in their lineup.

yarddog82abn

Lawsuits brought by government agencies are for causes of action that exist by virtue of statute. Government bodies, whether Congress or States Legislatures, are charged with the responsibility of enacting legislation that promotes the financial security and/ or safety of the respective citizens.

Private lawsuits are private in their essence, rather than affecting a much broader group. This has been at the root of our system of jurisprudence as inherited from the English Magna Carta of the 13th Century.

The rights of individuals to bring private lawsuits are so fundamental to their persons that no statute is required to do so. Such legal authority comprises what is referred to as “Common Law”.

Legislatures enact statutes to make actionable certain conduct against much broader groups in society which is found to be against the overall interests of such a broader group or the whole of society in its entirety. By the Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution most of these rights are reserved to the individual states.

The authority for regulation of transportation across states lines is within the purview of the U.S. Congress, under the Commerce Clause of the Constitution. Hence Congress has authorized the Executive branch to establish Cabinet Departments, agencies and commissions to regulate and oversee areas such as vehicular safety.

States have more limited powers in the area of transportation. However State legislatures have authority to enact legislation in the area of consumer protection and fraud.

The mechanism of the Class Action is a more recent statutory development. It is a means of both judicial economy and economy for claimants.

The financial cost of litigation can be tremendous when the respondent has significant financial resources. Think of it as the David vs. Goliath lawsuit. Beyond that, certain private actions contain scienter (knowledge or intent) as necessary elements of those private claims. Thus it may be necessary to establish the latter by a repeated pattern of conduct on the part of the respondent in the claim.

Thus, where a Court of jurisdiction finds that either a private (or more typically) a statutory cause of action is common to a broad group of claimants it permits a mass joinder of claimants. It reduces the number of repetitive lawsuits and allocates the cost of litigation amongst all the parties. Legal costs for the claimants are typically advanced by the class attorneys. If the litigation is successful, these attorneys are reimbursed and compensated out of the financial resolution of the claim.

So your conclusion that private actions brought by individuals are somehow of less significance than public actions brought by regulatory agencies is a flawed analysis. Can you in good conscience say that recovering the costs that will provide for lifelong care of a young child who suffers severe and permanently debilitating brain injury as a result of a car accident is more important than the financial loss to 100,000 Americans who bought a defectively designed or manufactured consumer good?

yarddog82abn

Correction to last sentence in my comment above:

“……is NOT more significant….”

Sorry for typo.

Anybody else notice West Bloomfield High School in the background?