and this one won’t flop?

Wrong car for the division anyway. Dump it.

… and why do they think this turd needs to be “rushed” into production. I am sure the masses are salivating at the prospect of owning a groovy new 2009 Pontiac Vibe! BAAAHAHAHAHAHAA

so i guess that means the “excitement” brand will still get FWD cars?

You people are always all so negative. What’s wrong with the Vibe? Its a fine little car. Much better looking in my opinion then the oddly designed Matrix.

what’s the rush its not like anyone’s gonna buy this xxxxmobile??? well apart from GM SALES

“jackdev”, what these clowns fail to realize is that the car market isn’t geared to them, a small and passionate group … it’s geared to the “masses” who need and can only afford a certain type and class of transportation.

There is nothing wrong with this car for what it is.

Both are much more stylish and appealing than thier Corrolla’s original DNA, but it’s time to put a decent motor under the hood. The old 180hp four wasn’t nearly enough let alone the meager 130hp four.

I’d like to see the Solstices / Sky’s blown 4cyl under the hood combined with AWD.

If it’s still only packing a 130hp mill, it’s curtains.

Say goodnight Jon Boy.

I hate the fact that this is the result of a Toyota/GM collaboration. It’s useless for both companies.

Make the next generation Vibe just like the Mazda3 – the mazda is the best looker in the segment, and its fairly exciting even though its FWD

And LLN – this is not NEWs. I read it more than a day ago on another site

The car isnt xxxxty bc its a Toyota underneath. The only xxxx is the name on top and that its sold at Pontiace dealerships. If toyota would build all of GMs cars they would have a lineup worth considering. Pontiac just needs to focus on making rear drive sports cars They should stop rebadging Holdens even though I liked the looks of the GTO

I don’t have a problem with the Vibe as an individual product, but I do have a problem with the division to which GM has assigned this vehicle. It is totally inappropriate as a Pontiac. It would make a nice addition to Chevrolet’s lineup as an alternative modern-looking hatchback to compliment the HHR retro wagon.

I would like to see GM finally get around to giving Pontiac products that are relevant to its affordable performance image. I am tired of seeing the endless parade of stopgap measures that GM keeps rolling out to keep the brand alive (especially the pitiful badge engineered G5 and Torrent Chevrolet clones). I want to see the all rear wheel drive performance lineup!

The Solstice was a good start. Unfortunately, that was it until the impending arrival of the G8 (drop the stupid alpha-numeric nomenclature; there is no reason why this car could not have been called “Grand Prix”). This brand will not become relevant again until all the front wheel drive stopgaps are banished and the serious rear wheel drive performance vehicles emerge to provide this brand with the product to put the “excitement” back into the “We Build Excitement” brand.

GM repeat after me: “Kappa, Alpha, Zeta!”

Wow “tripleonefive”… I’m not going to even start on your pathetic ignorance. It’s one of the highest ranking reliable cars by GM, but none the less it’s behind or on par with the competition’s offerings.

And no, there’s nothing wrong for what it is. Some of you guys need to grow up some, seriously and take a look at your own cars. I know it’s nicer than my own car, but some of the interior looks cheap and it’s not large enough for me (more like station wagon size). I would rather go with Mazda though, if I was in the segment.

It has a really neat interior, I love the interior because it fits Pontiacs “sporty” image, but needs to be differentiated from the Toyota Matrix.
The drivetrains do need to be revised though. A small turbocharger or supercharger, stiffer suspension, sport tires and some different trim and AWD would be a very nice performance package, nothing extreme but something that could be taken from the current models basis, just taken a step further.

Please though, distance it from the Toyota Matrix, and the trim needs to be made to look a bit less chunky.

Wow jjayC08 Im going to start and call you an idiot. Its a Toyota underneath and that is the sole reason for it being a success
I think you should have read my post before your atempt at an insult The furher this thing distances itself from the Matrix the better it is for Toyota. Not having a version with a GM badge on it will increase its value

So ugly. IF it were a woman she would have been beaten savagely.

Here’s the truth about the Vibe/Matrix problem:

I’ve used the configuration tools on both Pontiac’s and Toyota’s site. The Vibe wound up $1000 more and with a weaker warranty. Additionally, KBB gave the Matrix high resale value.

All for the same car with different sheet metal.

The Vibe was automatically at a disadvantage, even though it was easier on the eyes.

Deanster need to watch Enough lol Great movie until the end

ROFL…Deanster…hahaha…..

haha deanster – it kind of looks like it was

1115 – “just because its sold at pontiac dealerships”? Do I even need to say anything else, you shop based on the badge, even when the badge is the only thing that’s different.

And whats wrong with rebadging Holdens? They are GM cars made BY GM. And unlike Toyota starting with a Toy, and making it a Lexus, Holdens and Pontiacs are in about the same price range. GM wants to import Holdens to America (and so do I), so what do you want them to do? Introduce the Holden brand here when they already have the Pontiac brand so that they wont be accused by morons like you or rebadging

If they introduce the Holden brand here for Americans like you they will still be just as inferior as American GM’s. The Catera was a gem
Pontiac is holding down the value of the Matrix. GM’s Unreliability runs deep. It’s ashamed that you are blind to the poison that is GM. # decent cars in 20 years doesnt mean they are reliable

Yeah, why buy a Pontiac when you can buy a Toyota? I know which one I’d rather fess up to owning….

I am not even going to respond to your bs this time 1115. I barely know what you are talking about – how did you get the Catera into this? CATERA IS GONE, replace by the new CTS which is AMAZING. I don’t think GM needs to bring holden here, they already have pontiac – there is nothing wrong with them rebadging because they are selling their cars in DIFFERENT countries so theres nothing wrong with it. Prove GM is unreliable, nobody is just gonna take your word for it because most people here are too smart for that. Like ive said many times before, GM USED TO make crap. GM isnt poison – together with the rest of the Big 3 its just 5% of our GDP but that isnt important at all.

seanm415 – thats pretty much the only time that the patriotism thing comes up. They are both EXACTLY the same cars – same quality, same reliablity, same handling, same EVERYTHING because they are built at the SAME plant.

The only question here is, do you want to give your money to Toyota (Japan) or Pontiac (USA). You are getting the exactly same thing in the Pontiac, so I’d like to know what are your reasons for choosing the Toy

you Keep yapping but the FACTS speak for themselves GM is inferior to japanese just like Ford and Chrysler Deny it all you want. Look on KBB

I can’t help wondering why GM feels the need to rush a model that hasn’t really done that well for them?

I’ve looked at the Vibe, and there are things about it that I like, but to me, it was grossly underpowered. You could get the 180hp version of the 1.8 liter, but you had to rev the hell out of it to get all those ponies, and personally, I much prefer low-end torque. I think that car would have been much nicer to drive with Toyota’s 2.4 liter engine in it.

Scott – but that would sacrifice fuel economy which was one of the Vibe’s main goals. I’m hoping that you’re not one of those people that wants more power and complains about the fuel economy and praises cars for their fuel economy while criticizing them for lack of power

1115 – oops, you did it again. you made one of those posts that really dont deserve a response. It sounds like you are angry because you are having a hard time winning your empty arguments. I’ve looked on KBB. Is it really too much to ask for you to copy and paste the URL of the page on KBB that you are looking at and put it in your next comment? Tell me exactly what you want me to look at!

Oops I did it again ? I hope that isnt a riff off the Britni comment
It doesnt matter if you dont look You have been trying to prove me wrong for what 2 weeks now and have failed The power is with me and the Japanese GM Ford and Chrysler are struggling not Honda and Toyota lol

My ‘03 Matrix XRS (180hp) makes a fine companion to my ‘07 Z4 3.0si daily driver. Both are six-speeds and both are fun to drive…

However, the Matrix steering and notchy shifter are very poor compared with the Z4’s (and I won’t even get into the handling, but one cost me $50k and the other 17k). They both do about 29mpg on the highway.

The Matrix fits 4 people very well and this is quite valuable as a practical daily driver. Also, in 104,000 miles, the Matrix has only needed tires and maintenance… I’m still on original brake pads, no squeaks! (lots of highway driving)

I should add, my Matrix does not brake anywhere near as well as my Bimmer… I think that’s just physics of weight, tires and brake systems rather than the pads.

angelo – and if you had bought a vibe, it would have been just as good. only with a different badge

1115 – i havent failed bro. I’ve proved much more than you have. you have just talked and talked and make yourself look really stupid and you havent backed any of the things you claim. And whats even more embarassing for you is the silly things you say like “The power is with me and the Japanese” like you are on some ****en samurai mission

“The only question here is, do you want to give your money to Toyota (Japan) or Pontiac (USA).”

Brand image plays a strong part to US buyers. There is also a question of styling which is completely subjective. It’s far more complex than whether you want to support your country or not, which is basically what you’ve been yapping for the last month or so.

I definitely agree that it’s a Toyota but not just underneath. A capable car but butt ugly and the drive wheels on the wrong end. I remember when the Vibe was announced, I was excited. I liked the idea of a small AWD car with nearly 200 hp. Like a WRX will a little less hp and a little less $$. Then I saw the pathetic thing and my interest waned. Once you pay a good Designer, good looking designs don’t cost any more to build than ugly designs. It’s just somehow more acceptable to produce a cheap ugly car than an expensive ugly car.
When I found out that the AWD model (which should get a higher output engine to compensate for the extra weight and drag of an AWD system) only was available on the pitifully low output engine, my interest died. I’m sure that it’s good transportation (my friend who sits next to me at work owns one and says it’s a great car for transportation) but I’m looking for more car than this. If it’s got Toyota mechanicals, the basics are going to be taken care of. They just need to give me a reason to go down to the Pontiac dealership. This car isn’t gonna do it. I hope they learned something from the first car and don’t repeat their mistakes.

If I was on a mission with Samurai or Japanese then it would make more sense then defending GM
The resale in the Matris is more than the Vibe bc its a TOYOTA and the Japanese cars are far superior

My Vibe GT did not exhibit any GM diseases after a year of operation. Thanks to Toyota’s DNA. Since looks are subjective, I do like looks of VIbe and not excited about Matrix. Accidentally, Toyota sells very much Vibe looking car in Europe.
The current engine is not 180 HP and probably never was. It was Toyota/Pontiac over-promise and under-delivery. It is 164 HP which is just fine with 2 passengers and definitely crying for more torque with 3. However for the price car handles fine and I won’t even complain about shifter – I got what I paid for. It is very convenient car to drive: easy egress and regress, high seating position (appears to be catching on with other manufacturers and models) and after all it is a little wagon. It is not Bimmer (it cost half), nor Benz, but convenient compact and reliable wagon.
It is the most reliable car in GM repertoire and I haven’t seen any adds for it (ever). There are not many of them on dealer lots. Perhaps a few more models of such quality and versatility could pull GM out of slump. GM sells a lot of cars already that are manufactured by original GM factories: Chevy sells Daewoo, Saturn Opels and Pontiac Holdens. Perhaps that is the future of the company:sales and maintenance of foreign made cars.

Hopefully this new one will be reliable, unlike the old one with the Toyota running gear that never worked. The rest of the car was perfect in typical GM fashion. Too bad it was dragged down by the engine and tranny.

I think the Matrix is horrible. I didnt know its a joint enture of Toyota & GM. Now it all makes sense, GM gets its hands involved and things turn out like crap. The Vibe/Matrix should be scrapped.

The only way for it next Vibe to be reliable is if Toyota contributes to it’s reliability. So far GM could not build reliable small car. Neither this or previous century. There is nothing wrong with GM trucks and SUVs, but they can not build anything reliable that requires some higher level of precision (small car, small engine block, etc). Exceptions are Opels as much GM as they are.

I live in the Untited States of Toyota. My wife drives a Toyota as well as I. In fact all of us in the U.S.T drive grey Camry’s. Toyota rules the world and there was no need any longer for competition so Toyota wiped them out. My friends grey Camry has 13,456,786 miles on it and is 112 years old. It is his daily driver.
I went to the Barrett Jackson Auction in Scottsdale, Toyota the other week and they has alot of classic grey Camry’s going for anuwhere from 1.5 to 3.8 million dollar. A rich guy driving a grey Camry named tripleonefive bought everyone of them to add to his collection of early to mid 90’s classic Honda Accords.
Well I have to go now, our service starts at 11AM at the Church of the Sacred Toyota. Today we are burning live goats, don’t want to be late.

Right Keep venting

The only way for it next Vibe to be reliable is if Toyota contributes to it’s reliability. So far GM could not build reliable small car. Neither this or previous century

That has got to be the most assinine statement in the history of the Internet. Get a clue.

My Matrix has been extremely relible, a buddy has one too and his experience has been identical. I almost bought a Mazda3 instead (more fun to drive), but the Matrix offered superior room inside and a car that sits 4 is a great thing.

Peter Egan from Road & Track does like I do, he owns a Vibe (same thing as Matrix, different badging) and a Boxster. The difference is that my Z4 3.0si is a little less prestigious than his Boxster (and doesnt’ handle as great, but has free maintenance, is faster and was cheaper) and that my Matrix XRS has the extra power that makes her a bit faster (at peak power of 72rpm because there’s no torque whatsoever below 4,000rpm and you don’t feel much ’till VVT-i kicks in around 6200rpm).

The Matrix/Vibe is a Corolla platform with a cooler interior. In 2003 I struggled to find another very reliable manual car that would give me 0-60 in under 7.5 seconds and 30mpg on the highway with the capability and flexibility of carrying luggage or 4 passengers for under $20k.

The Matrix/Vibe has been reliable, good transportation. It’s basically a corolla wagon. Nothing exciting though, which makes me scratch my head on GM’s rush to get this out on the market. It better be a lot different!

Why rush this car? At best it is a me too car. I see nothing to recommend buying this typical knock off.

Angelo, you should have waited a year for the Mazda3. The Vibe/Matrix are nice reliable little cars though, so you made a good choice.

There are boat load of people who would prefer gas mileage over performance, and there is an AWD model, and the styling is not ugly.

1115: NUMMI is a joint venture. These cars are neither pure toyotas nor pure GMs
The new GTO, I though was cramped and overprice

1115: you keep SAYING that GMs are unrelianble, and every day, I keep seeing ‘82 and ‘83 Cavaliers on the road, parking next to a ‘62 Buick, starting my olds and wondering if the first thing will go wrong with it while I still own it ….

The matrix is boring, and the Vibe is garish

1115: what “facts” are you talking about? Why do you keep doing this, claiming you have facts that support your argument, but never producing anything that could accurately be called a fact

Veda – in this case it is about what company you want to support though. The only difference here is the grille – the Pontiac one has two holes and the Toyota one has one. Besides this “major styling difference” nothing else is different between the current Vibe and Matrix

That is one thing you are right about 1115 – the resale on the Toyota is higher but that difference is made up by the fact that the Vibe is alot more affortable – you can get it for 1000s less than the Matrix so obviously its resale is less

“Wow jjayC08 Im going to start and call you an idiot. Its a Toyota underneath and that is the sole reason for it being a success
I think you should have read my post before your atempt at an insult The furher this thing distances itself from the Matrix the better it is for Toyota. Not having a version with a GM badge on it will increase its value”

So…
You may say that, but in foreign markets Chevrolet is rebadging Subaru Foresters and making great profit off of them. Is it just chance, that it’s because of the Chevrolet badge, as the Subaru badge couldn’t succeed in getting a share of the market (I believe it’s the Indian market I’m pointing at), is the reason for it doing well?! Ha, what irony!

Unfortunately, one of the downfalls of the Pontiac Vibe is it indeed has a lower resale value. But you know what, it just happens that they are almost the same car, aside from exterior trim and a few minor components! And, it also happens that both cars were a joint venture over a few short years between GM and Toyota. It’s not just a GM badged version. So, is it just me, or does the resale value seem a little biased?

And for you guys screaming that it’s GM’s fault for it not being a good car, it’s also done very good compared to the reliability of Toyota’s other models. So GM in return improved Toyotas quality.

Aside from that, what can you say about the actual facts, being that Toyota has had some of the most recalls in history, over a period of a few years? I believe it’s been up there on the top three recalls for quite a while, and I don’t expect that to change quickly as it’s been going on for a while now.

Haha, funny “Lamboz get a life”. I had a laugh at that one!

THE SIGNIFICANCE

tripleonefive is an automotive genius

Once again mentioning my name I dont swing that way

Yes we know you don’t swing that way, the way of an unbiased opinion with real facts, one whom swings to the left and has an undesirable hatred of his country(though I doubt you live here). The fact that you feel patriotism is a bad thing in America. Insane. This has nothing to do with foriegn or domestic cars, cars are just that, cars. regardless of whom makes them, they are mostly good vehicles. Some are good, some are just so regardless of where they come from. The biggest problem that domestics face right now other then a biased media is the babyboomer generation whom won’t let go of the issues they add with there 1985 DeVille and they pass this anti-domestic BS down to there kids. When Jimmy Jr is out looking for a new car out of college and Dad joins in the search. Dad of course says he buy a Honda/Toyota those last forever and Little Jimmy Jr buys that. The Baby Bommer Generation has alot to do with the ills that are going on right now. Its funny how people on this site talk about reliabilty so much. The average person leases his car or trades it in for a new one every 4 to 5 years so whom really knows exactly on average how long a certain car is good for. There are very few people in my area that drive old cars. The ones that do are either really young or are not well off and have more worries then if the plastic dash in his 2000 Impala is not up to par to the 1997 Lexus at the Buy here Pay here lot. (where Tripleonefivegag bought his 1995 Honda Accord last year)

Lfa life: well said!

I like buying GM because the ones I’ve owned have proven to be reliable. Name one person whou’s bought an american vehicle in the last 10 years JUST BECAUSE IT’s AMERICAN. You can’t, because such a consumer doesn’t exist. That’s why there’s no K-car, celebrity or escort.

1115: call up your state DMV ask how many accords were sold in ‘95, and how many ‘95 accords were registered there last year. Then, do the same with the Grand Am, and see which has the higher percentage still running

It’s you who’s positing this as an American v. japanese argument.

I woulnd’t argue american/japanese, but I’ll go GM over toyonda all day, every day, based on my experience and those of family and friends.

Communist dog!

I don’t give a **** if they sold more Grand Ams.
Was the Grand Damn the best selling car ? Is the resale on the Grand Am as good as the Accords? and lastly Is it as reliable as the accord or any japanese car ?
The answer to all three is NO !
If patriotism in this thread means that someone should buy a car bc its American then Ill be a Communist
Commodore, GMCcyclone, AMG, YOU, and c6 and all the other Left lane jerk offs buy american bc they are american. If you wanted the best car you would be driving something foreign nmaely the Japanese

Grand am has probably never outsold the accord. That’s not the point. The point is, relative to sales, more grand ams are still running!

People buy American because it’s american, eh?
You still haven’t named one, tripleonefluffer!

If I could afford the best car, I’d be driving a 7-Series. I’m happy with what I have.

If I wanted the best japanese car, I’d be driving a maxima

Perhaps you didnt read he last post

Is the resale on the Grand Am as good as the Accords? and lastly Is it as reliable as the accord or any japanese car ?
The answer to all three is NO !
Commodore, GMCcyclone, AMG, YOU, and c6 and all the other Left lane jerk offs buy american bc they are American

trippleonefluffer: You’re illiterate!

If more grand ams are running, as far as I’m concerned, that makes it more reliable.

I don’t always buy american. I bought my olds because I thought it was nice (still do) and the price worked. If it had been built in Haiti or Romania, i’d have still bought it. If a BMW, VW, Volvo, Nissan or Kia, KI would’ve still bought it.

Bought some new body wash. Showering yesterday (that’s somethin’ you probably don’t no nuthin’ about) I noticed that it was made in the U.S.A.
Cool!
Not why i bought it, and no one’s going to spend thousands on a car they think is crap, under some vague notion that they’re supporting america.

Now, get me my money!

As far as I’m concerned you are an idiot. You are talking about being illiterate you dont know “new” from “knew”
I highly doubt that there are more Grand Damn’s on the road. The Accord was a best seller and the Grand Damn was not.
You use body wash ? I bet you wear a hairnet lol

TripleoneFluffer:

Why doubt when you can be sure.
You don’t know a typo from a failure to understand English.

Communist dog!

Fluffer? That was brilliant (sarcasm)
Woof woof! Unlike you I KNOW a typo from standard English

Fluffer is your profession, but since the word “profession” implies that you get paid,” maybe it ain’t.

Grand Am was regularly among the top 10 sellers. My proposition is, (and I know this is taxing your muskrat-brain) that there is a higher percentage of ‘95 (although for GM purposes that’s not really indicative of anything — ‘91 would more reflect the Grand Am’s superiority) Grand Ams till running than there is Accords of the same of the same model year.

1995 accord sales; 100. Still running; 28. Totals 28 percent

Grand Am sales: 70. Still Running; 43. Totals 61 percent.

I just made those numbers up. The DMV would probably give you numbers that are a little bit higher for both rigs.

I don’t need a hairnet. I have no hair and have an adult job, fluffer.

I’m pretty sure you wear a hairnet and Of course you made those numbers up bc you are an idiot
You look the real numbers up Grand is GM therefore its a POS and I dont care. The Honda was the best selling car that year it has the resale and rep So Im sure that not only more where sold but more accords are running today What word are you living in where a Grand Damn is selling more than Accords

I made those numbers up to try to explain 6th-grade math to you. If I call my local DMV and in fact they tell me there’s a higher percentage of grand ams still on the road, you’ll just say I’m lying, or come up with some other excuse.

If you look it up yourself, you’ve got to face that fact all by yourself.

I’ll let you in on a little secret: There’s a reason I made that proposition. Because I already know the results. I live in cali. If you live in Ohio, for example, the Grand Am will have an even higher margin

also, fluffer

I never said the Grand am sold more than the accord

Lamboz: You roasted his ass!

maybe there is hope for driving tripleonefluffer out of LLN.

y..its looks the ****ing same