If Camaro is a “pony car”… it must be a Clydesdale… nearly 4000lbs is rediculous for any kind of performance oriented vehicle.

Camaro is not going to be the car that saves GM… sorry folks.

You know things are in a sad state when it comes down to a Lawsuit like this.

Camaro is 3800 lbs of pork
Challenger is an even bigger lard-ass porkbelly
Pretty scary when Ford makes THE LIGHTEST car in a class!

The Camaro is all the way live, doh!
DrFill

Oh come on! GM used to let millions of vehicles out the door with parts missing. God bless Ricky and Bobby, they really do care now.

“Camaro is not going to be the car that saves GM… sorry folks”.

What an ignorant statement. No one expects or even has said they think the Camaro’s job was to “save GM” The Camaro is a niche vehicle who’s living on borrowed time. I’d be shocked if by the end of it’s design cycle GM brings it back, at least in it’s current form. The Camaro name may get a chace to live on but not as thirsty pig like 2010 model.
I don’t think its been a heavily guarded secret that GM thinks the car that “saves GM” will be the Volt!

“Camaro is not going to be the car that saves GM… sorry folks”.

I feel the Camaro needs to be the car that saves GM, just as the 350Z was the car that saved Nissan in 2003. The volt will need to come down in price so the masses can afford it. I will never buy a EV car from GM, the more I read about the “Who killed the electric car”, GM sold out to big oil and for that I will take my 40K somewhere else. Good luck greedy GM and all your employees, the only way your are going to make it is if you make the public your most important customer and get rid of those ridiculous union contracts.

PCW

NOOOOOOOO!!!!

My Camaro needs to be built NOW!!! Ok, so I haven’t made down payment or even thought about it, but still. I want these to be built so they get on the lots and they can discount the hell out of them. No more excuses, build it!!! People will find things to complain about everything, it’s still by far and away a deal – the V-6 will be a real contender when and if it finally is produced with no real competition, 370Z is UGLY and too unusable everyday the RX-8 is better but just anchored by the Rotary’s unwillingness to be reliable and usable plus a gas and oil hog. The Challenger relies on the old ones looks too much and has the wrong V-6 in it with the wrong tranny to boot, needs the 4.0L from the Pacifica and the 5 or 6 speed auto, if you need the auto. The Mustang is still too reliant on the Ranger for it’s V-6 and trannies.

Camaro is not just a vehicle, it’s the vehicle through which God speaks. To interfere with Camaro is to interfere with God’s master plan. Those who try to interfere shall go up in smoke, turn to stone, be visited by plagues, or be reduced to a pillar of salt. It’s that simple.

Ok…so I am a little confused with all the attempted satire on here. I know there are at least a couple people that post comments as one would expect 1115 to post them…his rhetoric is pretty predictable; Honda is the best company ever, Acura the finest car ever made, etc.

But who the helI is howsmydriving imitating? Is there a poster on here that talks like he is a member of a religious cult or something? Or is he trying to suggest that GM is run by a bunch of such people? Or, worst case scenario, is that how he actually thinks??

GM has been teasing the public with the new Camaro for several years. Who cares if it’s late? The new Camaro seems like old news. You guys you have been reading LLN for a long time know what I’m talking about. It’s assembled in Canada so it really doesn’t help the US economy. Sure there will be a few parts made in the US, but much of the car is Canadian. And as mentioned, it’s a niche car. Here is a suggestion: make sure there is a model with a version of the 6.2L V8 found in the CTS-V and ZR-1. The impact on GM’s CAFE would be insignificant.

well when you add the average american the weight does surpass the magically fat 4000lb limit, still looks good though, shame this is all happening, I don’t appreciate GM, but I like this new Camaro

Reminds me of a suitation in England when Land Rover’s Chassis builder went into “administration” or the equivalent of Chapter 7. The Receivers (Bankruptcy trustee) held Land Rover/Ford hostage over supplies of Chassis until they bought the company. Which was subsequently sold to GKN.

But for a while production was seriously threatened.

RaineMan: they’ve still got the Volt if all else fails…

Yeah 3,800 lbs. is past ridiculous. This thing will have no handling or acceleration, even with a 400 hp engine. I can’t wait until I get to test drive my first ‘10 Mustang.

commodore:

HMD has been on the wait list to get as Camaro for about two years I believe

His above remarks are his true feeling about anyone who should delay the day he sits in his dream car!

and no, the Camaro is to late and is to much of a niche market to ’save’ GM. GM will be saved as long they continue along the path they have started recently of making good looking cars that consumers and reviewers appreciate and are durable and fun driving. The ZR1, Volt, Malibu, Cruze, CTS, etc are all examples of what GM can do when they do it right. Personally, I will go back to my old dealership to see the Camaro when it comes out, as it was one of my favorites when I was a kid. I would buy one, but will wait till the ‘11 comes out with the ragtop. If i am getting a car, it will be a convertable!

But on the plus side, we could be lucky enough to get 12 more months of Camaro spy pics…

“Camaro is not going to be the car that saves GM… sorry folks”.

You’re right. Worse yet, a $40,000+ car called the Volt won’t save it either.

Not sure who or what will save GM.
But it’ll have to be more than products.
People have to buy cars again!

I love leftlanenews and check out the site every day to get my dose of automotive news. What I don’t like is all the negativity from the posters here. The majority of comments are negative, very opinionated and at times immature. It’s like some of you wish to see the domestic automakers fail. It’s because of this I don’t bother to scroll down and read these comments.

If you can run a company and build the perfect vehicle better than anyone else in these dire economic times then please do. These pseudo “clever” comments don’t help anyone.

Who the hell even remotely thinks that the Nissan 350Z saved Nissan….Are you eat up with the dumb ass. C Crunch is right on. I also dont think 3800-4000 pounds is a big deal…drive one before you speak.

You beat me to it.. since when did the 350Z “save” Nissan? The 350Z is immaterial to Nissan’s fortunes. Half of Nissan’s customer base doesn’t even know the 350Z exists, and 90% of the the other half doesn’t care. Nissan was “saved” by a string of competent bread-and-butter cars sold at accessible prices: the Altima, the Murano, the Senatra, the Versa.

Likewise, the Camaro isn’t going to save Chevy. In fact, the pre-production hoopla has been going on for so long now, I think interest has peaked already. Folks are moving on to other attractions. Me. I was interested in the Camaro back in early 2007. Now I don’t care if they build it or not, or just license the Hot Wheels version.

The Volt will never make it to market at a price less than $40,000. The “masses” that want this vehicle will never afford it.

I am a proud owner of many GM built vehicles. The most memorable was a 1968 Camaro Z28 which I purchased in 1975 from the original owner. This car was equipped with a 290 HP 302 with a manual 4 speed trans. The title weight stated 3,180 LBS. While I agree the 302 was a little under rated(probably by 30 to 40 HP ) it was a potent engine with ton’s of power and lots of fun to drive(410 rear). For all you negative people out there, a 6.2 LS3 probably rated at 420HP will set your pessimistic a_s so far back in the well contoured drivers seat that you’ll have to peel the shirt off you back. What you don’t realize is weight is ride=comfort. Plus stainless steel tuned header type exhaust is already being built for the LS2 (and LS3) in the Pontiac G8 and G8 gxp. Add an air box and a performance ECM(corvette) and the LS3 in the new Camaro will pump out over 475HP. (By the way the Dodge Charger ( including th SRT-8) is also over 4000 LBS.
I AM ALSO TIRED OF PEOPLE BASHING AMERICAN BUILT CARS. I have operated a fleet of GM trucks and vans for nearly 3 decades. We are now getting over 300,000 miles out of the 5.3 and 6.0 V8’s and have run the FACTORY brakes up to 200,000. The front ends and rear ends are also lasting nearly 300,000.
I would not hesitate driving any of these vehicles from cost to cost.
If you are considering buying foreign you are truly anti -American. Give the big three a chance. There research, development, style and YOUR lively hood deserve it.

Dry your mascara, Kirk
People buy foreign either because they are badge-snogs (European), or they want a reliable car (Japanese)
The domestics have earned their plight, and will now be FORCED to make better cars, and have an intelligent business plan.
GM has done a great job of recreating a viable lineup, but they are still horrible businessmen. But at least they’re doing something right.
Ford and Chrysler can’t make great cars or run their businesses

Enough of the wild patriotism
We all WANT to buy American!
It’s just been a VERY STUPID move until very recently, especially if you’ve used any of the competition for any length of time
The domestics have to pay penance for 25 years (late 70’s to the new millenium) of producing monkey crap, planned obsolescence, and irresponsible business practices.
DrFill

Kirk I agree and disagee in that last statement. In some ways GM should fail for poor management. And in other ways we can’t. We would survive as a Nation if only GM went down. However, you’d be right that it would hurt r economy if it goes down. What I can’t believe is the unabashed faith some people have toward foreign cars. Lets put it this way if we went to war tommorrow and faced a problem from abroad that was global in scale; then whose engine is the US Military going to rely to move troops to hot areas to protect the masses or engauge the enemy. If you say foreign your an absolute Idiot and Should be publicly flog for saying something so stupid. A military can not run successfully in a prolonged war that is global in nature on a foreign country’s hardware and engine- the subject of parts, accessibility and whether that nation is now even friendly to the US.

I tell you this Dummies if your relying on Honda’s engines for our tanks and we can’t get part for them- oh well I guess were SOL thanks to your stupidity. Unfortunate we have many of the masses not smart enough to realize that fact Captain Kirk.

The US could survive if one of the big three fail especially GM! All BIG Three automakers deserve to fail for one reason or another and all three are guilty of waiting to late to come out with Fuel efficient cars.
Their a day late and a dollar short. The thing is we can’t let em fail. THE UAW sucks and their less than a High School Diploma making a graduates salary and benefit is BS. That has to be redone. oTherwise I amy elect not to purchase a vehicle if they don’t make a concession on their $55 to $70 an Hour Job.

IN other words people. that equate on a 40 hour work week to $114,400 to $145,600 a year. I know lawyers that don’t even make that. A high school drop out making as much or more than a Shark (Lawyer) or Ambulance Chaser Hmmm Whose the thieft now??!! how about both r . But at least the Lawyer went to school to rip people off! LOL

DrFill,

I appreciate your comments, but not all American products have been bad the last 25 years. I mean, in the late 80’s, the new Grand Prix was a much better product for the midsize sedan than the undersized and underpowered Japanese competition, and while they might not be as “rock solid” I sure see lots of them on the road and they still look 10x better than the same age Japanese anything, sans sports cars. The most ground breaking product in the past 25 years, the Taurus as well going into the 90′a was a product that took the Japanese 5 years to come up with comparible models using the same type of areodynamics and size of the Ford. Both these products were named everything of the year at their time and were sold better than anything, especially the Taurus.

So your comments are misleading, while somethings are noticably weaker than some foriegn cars – Ford and GM not having competitive Midsize sedans from early this millenium until the last couple years, Americans have had tons of good product that people forget about (I like the 1995-1999 Aurora still). It’s not all their fault, it’s partly due to the bad resale values with many rental car lots flooded with domestics from bad business decisions up top (killed the Taurus) and good publicity and the fad for foriegn, Japanese, products.

Jake
The Japanese aren’t a fad
The Taurus was.
One bad redesgn, and it was over
Americans stampeded to the Toyota Camry, never to be seen at Ford again

You bring up the Aurora
First, it was based on the 1990 Lexus LS400
Right down to the 250HP, DOHC V8
It was just 7-8 years too late to used it as a benchmark
Dash was cheap and cheesy, like your beloved Grand Prix
Well not that cheap
I liked the car too. Good commercials
Another fad, doh
Horrible redeign, DOA

The rental market is one of the many bad business models I was talking about

Other failed Lexus knock-offs include Buick Riviera and Rendezvous
GM at least picks a good target
But it takes too long for them to reverse engineer
Too much beuracracy

Now Ford uses Toyota’s Hybrid tech to be competitive
Exactly when should I give them a pat on the back?

I like GM’s new lineup very much
I worked for Ford, so I know how bad they’ve been
They still have a long way to go
DrFill

DrFill
I purchased a 1992 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP, new. People would walk up to me and ask “what kind of car is that, it’s so sleek and looks good”. I still own this car, It was way ahead of it”s time compared to the Honda and Toyota’s of the time. I was involved in a car repair operation from 1987 to 1994. I can tell you that the Japanese built cars of the area were no better built than their US built counter parts. Example: Nearly every Honda and Toyota’s had timing belt problems and CV joint issues at about 60,000. I admit most US built cars were no different but the fact is The big three DID have some advanced products to the market before it’s foreign competitors. I remember if you drove a Honda, or Toyota(this is in the 70’s ) people would consider those cars as disposable , similar to the Ugo. Point being, that the foreign imports did not always build a quality product.
I do however, agree with some of your thinking, The big three needs to sharpen their pencil, cut the fat and get competitive in a world market.

Kirk
Never said there were absolutes
But there is a reason Grand Prix isn’t made anymore
In 1992, Toyota Camry was not in top 5 sellers in the country
But sales have grown ever since ‘92

If Toyotas and Hondas are that problematic (you’re exaggerating quite a bit), Camry/Accord/Civic/Corolla wouldn’t have locked up the top of the sales charts for the last decade

Grand Prixs always had a nice exterior, but NVH, ride, and the interior always said “I’m cheap and cheezy! You can do better!”
And many people did.
Don’t even compare word-of-mouth between GM and Toyo/Honda
Not a conversation you can have
DrFill

DrFill
The GP has been replaced with the popularity of the G8. I will be driving a G8 GXP in two weeks. This car has all the appeal,power and is as practicable as any import at nearly half the price of a BMW 550i.
GO GM !!!!!

When Gm was busy playing with car projection screens, Toyota was busy racking up the sales and focusing on their core business.

Fact of the matter is, you will never get me into a Camry. And fact of the matter is most buyers who don’t care about horsepower, torque or looks will go for the more reliable car.

European manufacturers learned that most people don’t care about huge engines, and upper trim levels sell well even with the weaker powertrains.

Something GM was lacking until now.

Ford saw it, but couldn’t capitalize with underpowered four cylinders.

Chrysler still has their eyes and ears turned the other way.

The Grand Prix you guys are talking about is the result of GM playing with projection screens.

Kirk: “If you are considering buying foreign you are truly anti -American.”
Uh, No.
Let me tell you, i looked at two japanese cars when shopping to replace my Olds.

I got a Buick.
Not because it was american — that’s not gonna happen. But because GM built a car worth my Money!

DrFill

-As usual, I have to add a wrinkle to something you say. When you say you cannot compare the word of mouth between American and Japanese cars, well, don’t GM and Ford still have a significant amount of market share? The two of them still sell about a third of the vehicles in this country. If word of mouth on Ford and GM were so bad, I would not expect to see those types of sales figures. I am finding more and more people who have heard that Ford has basically caught up to the Japanese in terms of initial quality, but they cannot, now, get past the perception that the domestics are done for.

DrFill, I think you are right in saying that Americans WANT the domestics to do well. I think that desire for the domestics to do well will make up for some of the deficiency in word of mouth-if there really is that much of one. I am less and less concerned that Americans do not know about the domestics recent strides in design, quality and efficacy; but, rather, I am concerned that Americans are unwilling to purchase cars from companies so close to the edge. As many have noted, a better auto bailout may have been to give a sizable rebate to anyone who bought an American car.

LWP
As was reported a few weeks ago, Toyota & Honda lead the league in owner loyalty, as per usual, at over 60%.
The Fords Chevys and Chryslers are average at around 50%
Factor in fleet sales (20-50%, depending on model), the free loans and ridiculous rebates, number of employees who get special discounts, and the 3-1 number of dealers over foreign makes nationwide, it’s not hard to figure out why the domestics are still in business.
The domestics have been buying customer’s loyalty for many years now.

Can’t think of a Ford I’d even WANT to consider buying (Not counting the Fusion Hybrid, which isn’t even out yet)
GM is finding their groove
Too little, too late.
DrFill

‘If you are considering buying foreign you are truly anti -American. Give the big three a chance. There research, development, style and YOUR lively hood deserve it.’

Lol, I reckon that is the biggest crock of crap since the statement about their being ‘weapons of mass destruction’ in Iraq. Considering how many vehicles are built in Mexico, maybe Kirk was really saying ‘anti [North] American’.

Good. Now I won’t be having any wannabe dukes of hazzards in my neighbors for a while.

Well, when something is going right, ther is always something that turns up to make it bad. Sorry Camaro, but i feel it will be delayed no matter what.

The car is not out already. Not even in production. Save your sub-juvenile fan-rants until you can actually get your sorry butts into one.

Who knows, you may be more than pleasantly surprised.

Otherwise,you all just sound unforgivably pathetic.

It is a car that tries to bypass decades of bad engineering and design choices (i.e.American car makers trying to make Japanese cars).

I can only express displeasure that it has taken DETROIT this long to put some real passion and interest beyond “how much money will it make” back into their offerings. One can not truly imagine just how well off DETROIT would have been if cars of this level of design and interest had been available from the late 1980s to now.

Yeah, THEY coulda made Lexus, or Cadillac into Lexus, #1 Luxury car in America
And Olds Cutlass coulda been Olds Camry, #1 car in America
Oh well.
DrFill

I’m content with Cadillac not being another Lexus.

And, as already pointed out, none of us have driven the new Camaro.

Sure, it’s overweight, but so is every other vehicle in it’s segment. And I’m not just considering the Camaro and Charger as it’s segment, btw.

GM has the highest owner loyalty of any auto company. When they show Chevy is below Toyota for owner loyalty they do not take into account the way GM buyers can skip around divisions.

i.e. A Chevy owner buys a Pontiac. 0% chevy loyalty, 100% GM loyalty
a pontiac owner buys a GMC. 0% pontiac loyalty, 100% GM loyalty.

I could not find the data but I have seen it in the last year.

Lionwithoutpride, jackjimturkey, kirk3751

One of the big mistakes the D3 made was concentrating too much on the big moneymakers as in trucks and SUVs. With that the foreigners were allowed to take over the car business. Foreign makers have proved they can’t make a truck unless they copy as in Nissan.
Now that the D3 have refocussed on making cars they are doing an admirable job and in a relatively short time caught up with the foreigns. Now it is up to the consumer to do some homework in their purchases to realize this.
No one is going to change some of these posters opinions as they really aren’t opinions. They are just ignorant attitudes.

Carstuff
That’s the same story in most companies
GM isn’t the only conglomorate
Chevy offers a full line of vehicles, up to $100k Vettes
So they have MORE opportunity to retain customers than other makes
They have to play by the same rules everybody else does.
So no, you don’t get credit for sales in smaller niche divisions
Then you split hairs all day
Chrysler, Ford, and Chevy don’t hold customers like Honda and Toyota do.
They’re numbers are FAR lower
Just stating the facts
Don’t playa-hate
Appreciate!

I’m sure the domestics do some things well
And when they do let me know, ‘cus I’m drawing a total blank
Happy New Year!
LOL!
DrFill

Great idea, GM. Sue a bankrupt supplier just to put out an over-hyped car that is twenty years too late.

carstuff, you are right. The loyalty for GM products is so high that GM lost market share every year in the past 30 years. Not to forget that GM is survival is not based on quality or quantity of vehicles they sell or even manufacturer, but on tax dollar. Without billions government donation GM would close doors. Not a great business model or car manufacturer.

@Borat I made some editorial changes…

“carstuff, you are right. The loyalty for ‘Kalifornia’ products is so high that ‘Kalifornia’ lost market share every year in the past 30 years. Not to forget that ‘Kalifornias’ survival is not based on quality or quantity of “Whatever” they sell or even manufacturer, but on tax dollar. Without billions ‘of extra taxes Kalifornia’ would close doors. Not a great business model ‘for a State’.” {sic}

There I fixed it for ya;-)

DB9

PS. Kali is in worse financial shape then AIG or Lehman for that matter. Now they have the ability to set the agenda in Washington too. The D3’s piddly few Billion should be the last of your worries…

Chrysler got their tooling out of Cadence, I believe it went to Mayco Plastics.

GM in some ways deserves to die by speaking out of both sides of their mouth.
They claim their all for Environmentally sound vehicles yet come out with a 556 HP Cadillac how Hypocritical, They Suck

I love how the Camaro is a, “overweight beast”, weighing in at 3,800 lbs., yet the GT-R is an “amazing piece of engineering”, weighing in at 3,800 lbs.

WOW…… 556 Horse Power Cadi…. I’m IN !!!! SAVE GM…NOW!!!
Damit! I’m a Tax Payer and a registered voter, People like me that want and can afford this type of cars, need a reason to buy a American product, nothing wrong with Euro performance cars, they are for the most part catering to a segment that is more profitable for any dealer, I know for a fact that the sell of one M3 is the same as the sell of “4″ 3series BMW’s, now take in to consideration the over head of 4 cars, most city’s will charge the auto dealer a city ordnance fee for every car that is on the dealer lot, (at least in the Los Angeles area). Now ad the flooring from the manufacture, service liability for any dealer mishaps, over stocking of vehicles, and it gos on and on…

That’s why with the high price cars you expect better service, and damn it I better get it… If I want to be treated like some sort of “riffraff” I’ll buy a Toyota. But no I want the best in luxury and performance and I’m willing to pay for it, and for those that don’t believe you do get better service at a high end dealer, take your Nissan to Infinity dealer for service, of your Chevy to a Cadillac dealer, and your VW to a Audi dealer, just don’t take your Toyota to a Lexus dealer, they don’t deal with the riffraff there…

Beatyou
When you have AWD, launch control, 480HP, and a 3.3 second 0-60, your weight isn’t such an issue
Last I checked, Camaro didn’t have those features even as options
So you can call it dumpy, pudgy, doughboy, porky, saddlebags, lardass
But many will still call it Sweet!
DrFill

Yarddog
It would be nice if you weren’t such “riffraff”, for once
DrFill

I’m sure if the Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger started cost North of $50K it would have a healthy ratio of Aluminum and Carbon fiber in it.

They don’t so they don’t.

Get over yourselves.

GM lovers can we say “BAILOUT” if not, BYE BYE

Drfill 3.3 0-60 my ass! Never retard even Corvettes dont meet that.

The new Camaro looks sweet but GM ruins everything. Its a surprise the Vette still looks pretty. Oh and the new Malibu isnt bad if you get the decked out version. Otherwise GM is a damn JOKE!!!! Crapping on us Americans.

GM (Gross Mismanagement)