They don’t so they don’t.

Get over yourselves.

That’s why with the high price cars you expect better service, and damn it I better get it… If I want to be treated like some sort of “riffraff” I’ll buy a Toyota. But no I want the best in luxury and performance and I’m willing to pay for it, and for those that don’t believe you do get better service at a high end dealer, take your Nissan to Infinity dealer for service, of your Chevy to a Cadillac dealer, and your VW to a Audi dealer, just don’t take your Toyota to a Lexus dealer, they don’t deal with the riffraff there…

“carstuff, you are right. The loyalty for ‘Kalifornia’ products is so high that ‘Kalifornia’ lost market share every year in the past 30 years. Not to forget that ‘Kalifornias’ survival is not based on quality or quantity of “Whatever” they sell or even manufacturer, but on tax dollar. Without billions ‘of extra taxes Kalifornia’ would close doors. Not a great business model ‘for a State’.” {sic}

There I fixed it for ya;-)

DB9

PS. Kali is in worse financial shape then AIG or Lehman for that matter. Now they have the ability to set the agenda in Washington too. The D3’s piddly few Billion should be the last of your worries…

I’m sure the domestics do some things well
And when they do let me know, ‘cus I’m drawing a total blank
Happy New Year!
LOL!
DrFill

One of the big mistakes the D3 made was concentrating too much on the big moneymakers as in trucks and SUVs. With that the foreigners were allowed to take over the car business. Foreign makers have proved they can’t make a truck unless they copy as in Nissan.
Now that the D3 have refocussed on making cars they are doing an admirable job and in a relatively short time caught up with the foreigns. Now it is up to the consumer to do some homework in their purchases to realize this.
No one is going to change some of these posters opinions as they really aren’t opinions. They are just ignorant attitudes.

i.e. A Chevy owner buys a Pontiac. 0% chevy loyalty, 100% GM loyalty
a pontiac owner buys a GMC. 0% pontiac loyalty, 100% GM loyalty.

I could not find the data but I have seen it in the last year.

And, as already pointed out, none of us have driven the new Camaro.

Sure, it’s overweight, but so is every other vehicle in it’s segment. And I’m not just considering the Camaro and Charger as it’s segment, btw.

Who knows, you may be more than pleasantly surprised.

Otherwise,you all just sound unforgivably pathetic.

It is a car that tries to bypass decades of bad engineering and design choices (i.e.American car makers trying to make Japanese cars).

I can only express displeasure that it has taken DETROIT this long to put some real passion and interest beyond “how much money will it make” back into their offerings. One can not truly imagine just how well off DETROIT would have been if cars of this level of design and interest had been available from the late 1980s to now.

Lol, I reckon that is the biggest crock of crap since the statement about their being ‘weapons of mass destruction’ in Iraq. Considering how many vehicles are built in Mexico, maybe Kirk was really saying ‘anti [North] American’.

Can’t think of a Ford I’d even WANT to consider buying (Not counting the Fusion Hybrid, which isn’t even out yet)
GM is finding their groove
Too little, too late.
DrFill

-As usual, I have to add a wrinkle to something you say. When you say you cannot compare the word of mouth between American and Japanese cars, well, don’t GM and Ford still have a significant amount of market share? The two of them still sell about a third of the vehicles in this country. If word of mouth on Ford and GM were so bad, I would not expect to see those types of sales figures. I am finding more and more people who have heard that Ford has basically caught up to the Japanese in terms of initial quality, but they cannot, now, get past the perception that the domestics are done for.

DrFill, I think you are right in saying that Americans WANT the domestics to do well. I think that desire for the domestics to do well will make up for some of the deficiency in word of mouth-if there really is that much of one. I am less and less concerned that Americans do not know about the domestics recent strides in design, quality and efficacy; but, rather, I am concerned that Americans are unwilling to purchase cars from companies so close to the edge. As many have noted, a better auto bailout may have been to give a sizable rebate to anyone who bought an American car.

I got a Buick.
Not because it was american — that’s not gonna happen. But because GM built a car worth my Money!

Fact of the matter is, you will never get me into a Camry. And fact of the matter is most buyers who don’t care about horsepower, torque or looks will go for the more reliable car.

European manufacturers learned that most people don’t care about huge engines, and upper trim levels sell well even with the weaker powertrains.

Something GM was lacking until now.

Ford saw it, but couldn’t capitalize with underpowered four cylinders.

Chrysler still has their eyes and ears turned the other way.

The Grand Prix you guys are talking about is the result of GM playing with projection screens.

If Toyotas and Hondas are that problematic (you’re exaggerating quite a bit), Camry/Accord/Civic/Corolla wouldn’t have locked up the top of the sales charts for the last decade

Grand Prixs always had a nice exterior, but NVH, ride, and the interior always said “I’m cheap and cheezy! You can do better!”
And many people did.
Don’t even compare word-of-mouth between GM and Toyo/Honda
Not a conversation you can have
DrFill

You bring up the Aurora
First, it was based on the 1990 Lexus LS400
Right down to the 250HP, DOHC V8
It was just 7-8 years too late to used it as a benchmark
Dash was cheap and cheesy, like your beloved Grand Prix
Well not that cheap
I liked the car too. Good commercials
Another fad, doh
Horrible redeign, DOA

The rental market is one of the many bad business models I was talking about

Other failed Lexus knock-offs include Buick Riviera and Rendezvous
GM at least picks a good target
But it takes too long for them to reverse engineer
Too much beuracracy

Now Ford uses Toyota’s Hybrid tech to be competitive
Exactly when should I give them a pat on the back?

I like GM’s new lineup very much
I worked for Ford, so I know how bad they’ve been
They still have a long way to go
DrFill

I appreciate your comments, but not all American products have been bad the last 25 years. I mean, in the late 80′s, the new Grand Prix was a much better product for the midsize sedan than the undersized and underpowered Japanese competition, and while they might not be as “rock solid” I sure see lots of them on the road and they still look 10x better than the same age Japanese anything, sans sports cars. The most ground breaking product in the past 25 years, the Taurus as well going into the 90′a was a product that took the Japanese 5 years to come up with comparible models using the same type of areodynamics and size of the Ford. Both these products were named everything of the year at their time and were sold better than anything, especially the Taurus.

So your comments are misleading, while somethings are noticably weaker than some foriegn cars – Ford and GM not having competitive Midsize sedans from early this millenium until the last couple years, Americans have had tons of good product that people forget about (I like the 1995-1999 Aurora still). It’s not all their fault, it’s partly due to the bad resale values with many rental car lots flooded with domestics from bad business decisions up top (killed the Taurus) and good publicity and the fad for foriegn, Japanese, products.

I tell you this Dummies if your relying on Honda’s engines for our tanks and we can’t get part for them- oh well I guess were SOL thanks to your stupidity. Unfortunate we have many of the masses not smart enough to realize that fact Captain Kirk.

The US could survive if one of the big three fail especially GM! All BIG Three automakers deserve to fail for one reason or another and all three are guilty of waiting to late to come out with Fuel efficient cars.
Their a day late and a dollar short. The thing is we can’t let em fail. THE UAW sucks and their less than a High School Diploma making a graduates salary and benefit is BS. That has to be redone. oTherwise I amy elect not to purchase a vehicle if they don’t make a concession on their $55 to $70 an Hour Job.

IN other words people. that equate on a 40 hour work week to $114,400 to $145,600 a year. I know lawyers that don’t even make that. A high school drop out making as much or more than a Shark (Lawyer) or Ambulance Chaser Hmmm Whose the thieft now??!! how about both r . But at least the Lawyer went to school to rip people off! LOL

Enough of the wild patriotism
We all WANT to buy American!
It’s just been a VERY STUPID move until very recently, especially if you’ve used any of the competition for any length of time
The domestics have to pay penance for 25 years (late 70′s to the new millenium) of producing monkey crap, planned obsolescence, and irresponsible business practices.
DrFill

Likewise, the Camaro isn’t going to save Chevy. In fact, the pre-production hoopla has been going on for so long now, I think interest has peaked already. Folks are moving on to other attractions. Me. I was interested in the Camaro back in early 2007. Now I don’t care if they build it or not, or just license the Hot Wheels version.

If you can run a company and build the perfect vehicle better than anyone else in these dire economic times then please do. These pseudo “clever” comments don’t help anyone.

You’re right. Worse yet, a $40,000+ car called the Volt won’t save it either.

HMD has been on the wait list to get as Camaro for about two years I believe

His above remarks are his true feeling about anyone who should delay the day he sits in his dream car!

and no, the Camaro is to late and is to much of a niche market to ‘save’ GM. GM will be saved as long they continue along the path they have started recently of making good looking cars that consumers and reviewers appreciate and are durable and fun driving. The ZR1, Volt, Malibu, Cruze, CTS, etc are all examples of what GM can do when they do it right. Personally, I will go back to my old dealership to see the Camaro when it comes out, as it was one of my favorites when I was a kid. I would buy one, but will wait till the ’11 comes out with the ragtop. If i am getting a car, it will be a convertable!