Comments on: GM SUVs to get diesels in 2009 http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html Car news, reviews, and specs for the auto-industry Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:50:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: GM SUVs to get diesels in 2009 - Leftlane – news, reviews, and ... http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-613487 GM SUVs to get diesels in 2009 - Leftlane – news, reviews, and ... Fri, 03 Jun 2011 21:16:58 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-613487 <strong>GM SUVs to get diesels in 2009 - Leftlane – news, reviews, and ......</strong> [...]England to U.S.: Pay up for congestion caused by Obama’s motorcade; Fiat makes bid to buyout remaining U.S. stake in Chrysler; Spied! Next-gen Ford Mustang Cobra Jet ...[...]... GM SUVs to get diesels in 2009 – Leftlane – news, reviews, and ……

[...]England to U.S.: Pay up for congestion caused by Obama’s motorcade; Fiat makes bid to buyout remaining U.S. stake in Chrysler; Spied! Next-gen Ford Mustang Cobra Jet …[...]…

]]> By: JC2 http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-255559 JC2 Mon, 28 Aug 2006 02:25:25 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-255559 Yes Brendan, they get alot better milage. But the extra cost of the diesel, just like they've been trying to point out with hybrids, will take a while to start actually saving money. Why early 2010 though? I can understand if they need to work out a few bugs, but they need it now more than ever. I would think they would come out with a group of new cars and technologies (Camaro, diesels, any other cars coming out in the future?) at one time, that would recieve more credit and media attention. Kickin... Funny comment, but they are still scratching their monkey asses to figure out how to make a better car LOL. Yes Brendan, they get alot better milage. But the extra cost of the diesel, just like they’ve been trying to point out with hybrids, will take a while to start actually saving money.
Why early 2010 though? I can understand if they need to work out a few bugs, but they need it now more than ever. I would think they would come out with a group of new cars and technologies (Camaro, diesels, any other cars coming out in the future?) at one time, that would recieve more credit and media attention.
Kickin… Funny comment, but they are still scratching their monkey asses to figure out how to make a better car LOL.

]]> By: Brendan http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-253757 Brendan Sun, 27 Aug 2006 04:21:52 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-253757 Jay - it may be only five cents cheaper, but remember that diesels get way better fuel economy. The only thing I don't know for sure is if diesels tack on enough to the MSRP to make the savings in fuel not worth it. Jay – it may be only five cents cheaper, but remember that diesels get way better fuel economy.
The only thing I don’t know for sure is if diesels tack on enough to the MSRP to make the savings in fuel not worth it.

]]> By: D-MAX http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-253089 D-MAX Sat, 26 Aug 2006 22:00:45 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-253089 It will be awesome!!Everybody check out THE DIESEL PLACE.COM Diesel engine's need to be everybody's choice. Let our Farmers grow the Soy-Beans to make Bio-Diesel and Let's all do something for our Fuel Price issues. THIS WILL BE THE NEW IN THING (DIESEL)! MEMBER #1... It will be awesome!!Everybody check out THE DIESEL PLACE.COM Diesel engine’s need to be everybody’s choice. Let our Farmers grow the Soy-Beans to make Bio-Diesel and Let’s all do something for our Fuel Price issues. THIS WILL BE THE NEW IN THING (DIESEL)!

MEMBER #1…

]]> By: Nemo http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-252134 Nemo Sat, 26 Aug 2006 03:55:48 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-252134 Another hilarious Kickin post. Such a talent. Let's file this one in the "I have a personality only a Mother could love" file. Thanks for your time. :-) Another hilarious Kickin post. Such a talent. Let’s file this one in the “I have a personality only a Mother could love” file. Thanks for your time. :-)

]]> By: Kickin http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-252043 Kickin Sat, 26 Aug 2006 00:21:08 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-252043 Again, you can thank Isuzu for GM's knowledge on the diesel front. Without them, GM would be scratching their ass and continuing to sell you an inferior product. At least now the motor is credible. Maybe Isuzu can take the reigns on the next GMT design? truthabouttrucks.com Again, you can thank Isuzu for GM’s knowledge on the diesel front. Without them, GM would be scratching their ass and continuing to sell you an inferior product. At least now the motor is credible. Maybe Isuzu can take the reigns on the next GMT design?

truthabouttrucks.com

]]> By: Jay http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-252022 Jay Fri, 25 Aug 2006 23:12:50 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-252022 Hmmm that's strange Brendan, they buy diesels to save money? Atleast in my area diesel is only about 5 cents cheaper than gas (diesel is around $3.02 and gas is around $3.10 or so). But again that just must be my area (NY). But most people that I know that have diesels need them for towing things and industrial grade work, not to save money. And Toyota isn't the one launching a full size diesel SUV, but I get your point. I'm not going to be saving any on diesels soon :( Hmmm that’s strange Brendan, they buy diesels to save money? Atleast in my area diesel is only about 5 cents cheaper than gas (diesel is around $3.02 and gas is around $3.10 or so). But again that just must be my area (NY).
But most people that I know that have diesels need them for towing things and industrial grade work, not to save money.
And Toyota isn’t the one launching a full size diesel SUV, but I get your point. I’m not going to be saving any on diesels soon :(

]]> By: Brendan http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-252017 Brendan Fri, 25 Aug 2006 22:58:03 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-252017 I think it's interesting that people are saying that GM needs this now, but it's okay that Toyota delays product launches for two to three years? They're both ensuring quality, guys. Also, people don't buy diesels because they're environmentally conscious, they buy diesels because it costs them less money in gas. People only care about the environment when it doesn't hurt their money or time. I think it’s interesting that people are saying that GM needs this now, but it’s okay that Toyota delays product launches for two to three years?

They’re both ensuring quality, guys.

Also, people don’t buy diesels because they’re environmentally conscious, they buy diesels because it costs them less money in gas. People only care about the environment when it doesn’t hurt their money or time.

]]> By: Z06ified http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-251894 Z06ified Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:40:12 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-251894 Actually, if you read GM's press release, it does not say the Duramax is the engine that will be offered in the 2010 model SUV's. It looks to be an entirely new engine that is not the Duramax, and it will not have 330hp. It doesn't specify engine displacement or power levels, but it does say it is a new GM designed diesel, and makes no reference to the Duramax. It'll be a DOHC V-8 like the Duramax, but with a narrower V configuration, and specially designed integrated intake manifold to fit in the same space as a small block gas V-8 engine, which means it will be a considerably smaller external sized engine than the Duramax. There was a separate article talking about the new Duramax enhancements to meet the new 2007 emission standards - that engine is the one that has 330hp and 650 lbs. of torque, but this engine isn't going into GM's SUV's, as it needs the Allison tranny, which doesn't fit in the SUV's. The new diesel SUV engine is a light duty diesel, specifically for vehicles under 8,600 GVWR, which basically means 1/2 ton Silverados, Tahoes, Yukons, and Suburbans. Actually, if you read GM’s press release, it does not say the Duramax is the engine that will be offered in the 2010 model SUV’s. It looks to be an entirely new engine that is not the Duramax, and it will not have 330hp. It doesn’t specify engine displacement or power levels, but it does say it is a new GM designed diesel, and makes no reference to the Duramax.

It’ll be a DOHC V-8 like the Duramax, but with a narrower V configuration, and specially designed integrated intake manifold to fit in the same space as a small block gas V-8 engine, which means it will be a considerably smaller external sized engine than the Duramax.

There was a separate article talking about the new Duramax enhancements to meet the new 2007 emission standards – that engine is the one that has 330hp and 650 lbs. of torque, but this engine isn’t going into GM’s SUV’s, as it needs the Allison tranny, which doesn’t fit in the SUV’s.
The new diesel SUV engine is a light duty diesel, specifically for vehicles under 8,600 GVWR, which basically means 1/2 ton Silverados, Tahoes, Yukons, and Suburbans.

]]> By: A non E mussssss http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-251754 A non E mussssss Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:35:42 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-251754 More superior engineering from our friends at General Motors. I wish you guys continued success at wiping the rest of the competition off the the face of the Earth. Nobody is going to be able to keep up and will be forced out of business. More superior engineering from our friends at General Motors. I wish you guys continued success at wiping the rest of the competition off the the face of the Earth. Nobody is going to be able to keep up and will be forced out of business.

]]> By: Z06ified http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-251650 Z06ified Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:24:34 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-251650 It's about time! I think this is a great move on GM's part, and they competition would have crushed them if they didn't offer a diesel as an option. Mercedes is offering diesels on their ML and GL SUVs soon, as well as the Jeep Grand Cherokee and Commander, BMW will on their X5 SUV soon, and even Toyota is considering diesel options for their trucks and SUVs. Diesels are perfect for large SUV applications. Lots of torque, and 33% better fuel economy than gas power. As an owner of the last full size diesel SUV GM produced, a 1999 Suburban, I can attest to diesel's virtues. I recently got over 21 MPG on the highway, and over 15 MPG towing my 3,000 lb. boat. No gas engine can do that with the same torque output. Mine has 153k miles on it, runs like a top, and despite having old diesel technology (indirect injection, no intercooler, designed by Detroit Diesel in the 1980's, etc.), it has hardly any smoke. The only time you notice smoke is a quick puff when you stab the throttle hard, before the turbo has a chance to spool up. When have you seen a new Duramax diesel smoke? I never have. Those of you saying they pollute more are ignorant. Diesels naturally produce much less CO2, which is a greenhouse gas, and less CO, compared to a gas engine. These new modern diesels with particulate traps, common rail injection, and running the new ultra low sulfur fuel will be CLEANER than today's gas engines. It’s about time! I think this is a great move on GM’s part, and they competition would have crushed them if they didn’t offer a diesel as an option. Mercedes is offering diesels on their ML and GL SUVs soon, as well as the Jeep Grand Cherokee and Commander, BMW will on their X5 SUV soon, and even Toyota is considering diesel options for their trucks and SUVs.

Diesels are perfect for large SUV applications. Lots of torque, and 33% better fuel economy than gas power. As an owner of the last full size diesel SUV GM produced, a 1999 Suburban, I can attest to diesel’s virtues. I recently got over 21 MPG on the highway, and over 15 MPG towing my 3,000 lb. boat. No gas engine can do that with the same torque output. Mine has 153k miles on it, runs like a top, and despite having old diesel technology (indirect injection, no intercooler, designed by Detroit Diesel in the 1980′s, etc.), it has hardly any smoke. The only time you notice smoke is a quick puff when you stab the throttle hard, before the turbo has a chance to spool up. When have you seen a new Duramax diesel smoke? I never have.

Those of you saying they pollute more are ignorant. Diesels naturally produce much less CO2, which is a greenhouse gas, and less CO, compared to a gas engine. These new modern diesels with particulate traps, common rail injection, and running the new ultra low sulfur fuel will be CLEANER than today’s gas engines.

]]> By: j i m http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-251522 j i m Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:21:17 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-251522 Oh Boy.....smoke and mirrors! ...lotsa smoke and real big mirrors. If in the r-e-a-l world you get 12mpg with your gas monster: then this monster diesel will bring you up to 15mpg - given that the numbers GM are putting out are not the best they could get from 20 engine tests. Why not simply make it an 8-10L and go for the hairy chest crowd - they not fooling anyone. j i m Oh Boy…..smoke and mirrors! …lotsa smoke and real big mirrors.
If in the r-e-a-l world you get 12mpg with your gas monster: then this monster diesel will bring you up to 15mpg – given that the numbers GM are putting out are not the best they could get from 20 engine tests. Why not simply make it an 8-10L and go for the hairy chest crowd – they not fooling anyone.

j i m

]]> By: Renton http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-251520 Renton Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:15:16 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-251520 Typical GM........we need this product in 2006. Two more years is a long time. I put a lot of blame on the government and their draconian pollution laws as well this time. Lower the regulations and let the diesel flow. Also lower the taxes on diesel fuel for vehicles under 7000 lbs. BMW and VW will import no diesels this year b/c of laws alone. Typical GM……..we need this product in 2006. Two more years is a long time. I put a lot of blame on the government and their draconian pollution laws as well this time.

Lower the regulations and let the diesel flow. Also lower the taxes on diesel fuel for vehicles under 7000 lbs. BMW and VW will import no diesels this year b/c of laws alone.

]]> By: Carnut4ever http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-251475 Carnut4ever Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:33:04 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-251475 Yes, bring on the Duramax. This is the engine that is worthy of the new full size Suvs. How about dropping the diesel to the Hummer H2. That would surely boost the stagnant sales problem in a flash. I beg to differ, modern diesels are definitely cleaner than traditional large capacity gas engines in suvs. With modern exhaust gas treatment, it will definitely be cleaner and more efficient than gasoline. Yes, bring on the Duramax. This is the engine that is worthy of the new full size Suvs. How about dropping the diesel to the Hummer H2. That would surely boost the stagnant sales problem in a flash. I beg to differ, modern diesels are definitely cleaner than traditional large capacity gas engines in suvs. With modern exhaust gas treatment, it will definitely be cleaner and more efficient than gasoline.

]]> By: 190e http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-251455 190e Fri, 25 Aug 2006 09:25:19 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-251455 Why a 6.6L V8? With 330 horsepower.. Audi does better than that with their 4.2L TDI V8... A high output 6pot diesel would do the job to significantly save gas, and something like a 4.6L diesel V8 would use less gas then a 6.6... Many people don't need all that power and torque but want to save more than just 25%... It's a good thing to start with though. I also think GM should use its euro diesels in American passenger cars. I am not a fan of diesel because of all the soot they produce, look at european cities and the houses are covered in a layer of black soot. But it's a good short term solution, not as good as ethanol, but still good. Why a 6.6L V8? With 330 horsepower.. Audi does better than that with their 4.2L TDI V8… A high output 6pot diesel would do the job to significantly save gas, and something like a 4.6L diesel V8 would use less gas then a 6.6… Many people don’t need all that power and torque but want to save more than just 25%… It’s a good thing to start with though.

I also think GM should use its euro diesels in American passenger cars.

I am not a fan of diesel because of all the soot they produce, look at european cities and the houses are covered in a layer of black soot. But it’s a good short term solution, not as good as ethanol, but still good.

]]> By: Nemo http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-251398 Nemo Fri, 25 Aug 2006 06:12:06 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-251398 Funny, I don't hear anything about a diesel in a Sequoia, or an Armada.....nor a Titan or Tundra ?, but Man them foreign company's, ha !, they're way ahead of the domestic's ! WHOOOO BOY ! Like my Daddy alway's said, "What a fool believes...he see's !" Funny, I don’t hear anything about a diesel in a Sequoia, or an Armada…..nor a Titan or Tundra ?, but Man them foreign company’s, ha !, they’re way ahead of the domestic’s ! WHOOOO BOY ! Like my Daddy alway’s said, “What a fool believes…he see’s !”

]]> By: Patrick http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-251294 Patrick Fri, 25 Aug 2006 03:29:32 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-251294 yes, diesels get better mileage, but why doesn't anyone ever get that the emissions are WORSE in diesels than in conventional internal combustion gas engines? to me, that defeats the purpose of owning one, because although you are getting better mpg, you're hurting the environment more while you're at it, making diesels more or less a step backward in technology at this point. NO, NOT way to go GM. yes, diesels get better mileage, but why doesn’t anyone ever get that the emissions are WORSE in diesels than in conventional internal combustion gas engines? to me, that defeats the purpose of owning one, because although you are getting better mpg, you’re hurting the environment more while you’re at it, making diesels more or less a step backward in technology at this point. NO, NOT way to go GM.

]]> By: Jay http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-251280 Jay Fri, 25 Aug 2006 03:11:48 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-251280 This is a good thing, but it would be better if they got it out earlier... ALOT earlier This is a good thing, but it would be better if they got it out earlier… ALOT earlier

]]> By: MKBruin http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-251278 MKBruin Fri, 25 Aug 2006 03:10:16 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-251278 waldo... um, DCX has been working on the phoenix project for a while now (although only recently announced) and they will not appear until the 2010 to 2012 model years. you, sir, are a complete idiot. waldo… um, DCX has been working on the phoenix project for a while now (although only recently announced) and they will not appear until the 2010 to 2012 model years.

you, sir, are a complete idiot.

]]> By: Gmhater1 http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-251110 Gmhater1 Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:19:59 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-251110 Haha this will never pass any other regulations, just like what 1952 MG TD said. Again what a pity for GM. Haha this will never pass any other regulations, just like what 1952 MG TD said. Again what a pity for GM.

]]> By: British_rover http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-251095 British_rover Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:03:23 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-251095 That is where the duramax came from though Izuzu. If GM had never bought shares in Izuzu that motor probably never would have made it into light trucks. That is where the duramax came from though Izuzu. If GM had never bought shares in Izuzu that motor probably never would have made it into light trucks.

]]> By: JOEBLO http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-251091 JOEBLO Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:00:12 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-251091 Anyone know the torque output????????????????????????? Anyone know the torque output?????????????????????????

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-251084 Anonymous Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:53:32 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-251084 GM sold their stake in Isuzu..... GM sold their stake in Isuzu…..

]]> By: Kickin http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-251066 Kickin Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:41:06 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-251066 If it weren't for GMs intersest in Isuzu, they'd still be shaking their collective simple minds at the idea of diesels. Or we'd end up with modern day Oldsmobile disaster. If it weren’t for GMs intersest in Isuzu, they’d still be shaking their collective simple minds at the idea of diesels. Or we’d end up with modern day Oldsmobile disaster.

]]> By: 1952 MG TD http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-251046 1952 MG TD Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:24:28 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-251046 1-C-3-DOG it is going to take that long for the improved/revised deisel to go into production. the current duramax will not pass the 2010 regs, and has been crippled to meet the '07 regs. DCX, Ford, and GM are going to have deisels in nearly their full range of trucks/suv's by the '09 model year. 1-C-3-DOG

it is going to take that long for the improved/revised deisel to go into production. the current duramax will not pass the 2010 regs, and has been crippled to meet the ’07 regs.

DCX, Ford, and GM are going to have deisels in nearly their full range of trucks/suv’s by the ’09 model year.

]]> By: Big Nick http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-251041 Big Nick Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:18:33 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-251041 they should really come out earlier.....they should make them NOW!!!!! they should really come out earlier…..they should make them NOW!!!!!

]]> By: Captain America ! http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-251040 Captain America ! Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:17:50 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-251040 Aw'sum. Just in time for a new Yukon XL with the Duramax diesel ! :-) Aw’sum. Just in time for a new Yukon XL with the Duramax diesel ! :-)

]]> By: 1c3d0g http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009.html#comment-251035 1c3d0g Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:06:47 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/24/gm-suvs-to-get-diesels-in-2009/#comment-251035 2009? Damn it, that's too far away. :-( I need one *today*, or at most, early 2007. Why such a long time for the SUV's to get this engine? 2009? Damn it, that’s too far away. :-( I need one *today*, or at most, early 2007. Why such a long time for the SUV’s to get this engine?

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