is this car ugly to anyone else? yay for hybrids, i guess it’s good to have a hybrid that doesn’t look like an amorphous blob though

GM…signs of life?
This will surely throw Toyota a surprise curveball. While they have been acknowledging GM’s unfair blame with the electric car EVO1 failure, they probably thought GM would sit back a while longer and try to catch its breath. Hmm…
This is potentially very interesting especially with battery technology break-thru appearently round the corner.

It is a start.. when it starts. But they’d better not make some lame excuses for not getting this car out around 2010 like: we came up with a new truck we just HAD to ship first.

And for the love of all the at is holy, DON”T BUILD TI IN MEXICO! Build in AMERICA!

A range of 640 miles new…a range of 600 miles 2 months later…a range of 560 miles 2 months after that…

2010 seems like a long time. considering this thing has been around since 06… it takes nearly half a decade to produce a car? Not to mention every competitor that produces cars faster, aka the japs, could put something out sooner. how about 09?

I’d bet the farm that other manufactuers (Toyota and Honda at least) comes out with a plug in hybrids before 2010.

I hope GM is successful with the Volt. Though i am wondering why it only has a 40 mile range before the gas engine takes over. The Tesla on the other hand can go 250 miles on a single charge. Maybe having a plug-in hybrid is the cheaper route than going with a pure electric car that has a 1000 pounds of lithium ion batteries…

I doubt that Lutz will even be with GM in 2010. I also doubt GM will build what they say they will. They might build something called a Volt, but it will not technologically be what the initial Volt was touted to be. Lutz is an idiot, and a poor spokesman in this area of technology. Hell, he’s a poor spokesman, period.

I think the reason that its only capable of 40 miles on the batteries alone has to be cost. A Tesla can go 250 miles on a charge but it also cost 90k dollars, not exact on that figure so don’t jump on me for it. This allows you to goto work and back on just batteries providing you live within 20 miles, and a small gasoline engine for further range and I’m sure is more cost effective. And I disagree with the first commenter about the looks. Compared to a Insight or a Prius, this thing is beautiful, even for a regular car it looks good to me. I’m not diggin Toyota’s direction for design in their hybrids, but to be honest I never have liked their cars.

So basically Lutz is saying they are going to build it, but they cant make it look good. WTF is wrong with that picture?

A very good idea, and one which may be the future in cars. However, I don’t think all that electrical stuff will be reliable.

At least Lutz has balls, ill give him that.

who killed the electric car? hmmmm…

Random Jerk wrote “I’d bet the farm that other manufactuers (Toyota and Honda at least) comes out with a plug in hybrids before 2010.”

How do I collect?

>> At least Mexico (although we continue to piss them off) is still
>> an ally to America. An ally we should not be taking for granted.
.
Yeah, it is really pissing someone off to insist that their people immigrate legally to the USA. What assholes we must be for insisting people obey the laws of the land.

Prius will be pwned if GM builds this baby. Lmfao, compare toyotas turd hybrid concept to the volt and you’ll see why: http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-hybrid-x-concept.html

I hope they dont make the design too “traditional”. I really like this concept the way it looks and functions. If they make it happen I think it’ll be a winner.

This is more than just a plug-in hybrid… it’s a plug-in series hybrid (as opposed to the Prius’ parallel electric and gas drivetrains), which i’ve been anticipating for quite some time now. The electric engine is there purely to drive a generator to supply electricity to the electric motors and to charge the batteries. This allows it to always run in its optimal power band for peak energy efficiency and/or emissions reduction. And as new engine options are developed, they can be dropped in, whether it’s a clean diesel, a hydrogen fuel cell, an E85 turbine, a solar collector, Mr. Fusion… whatever.

I’ll be very impressed if GM can pull this off. But you can bet that Toyota and Honda are watching this very carefully and may very well have something more advanced already in the works. Rumour has it that Honda’s next-generation hybrids will also be series hybrids

Ricardo Head you forgot to mention all the other countries where the illegals come from too. Mexico is not the only country…Canada, Latin America, Europe…on and on. Personally, I wish they would all go home then some of these out of work American union workers, collecting unemployment, can come and mow my lawn, clean my house, and wash my dishes.

F451,

Your argument assumes that America doesn’t build cars and trucks anymore, period. A fallacy. While you can try to back up your statement with statements concerning Labor and healthcare. To make the false argument that Labor in America is disappearing, which it is not, only shows how little you actually know of the America Manufacturing sector. No we don’t make much of our own clothes anymore, Much of our consumer electronics are made overseas, the list goes on, but America still makes Cars, yes CARS, and trucks. Quite good ones too.

That said. I can not control GM to have the VOLT built in America, but I doubt that GM would be happy to have, what is likely to be seen as one of the most important new cars in GM’s history, the car built in Mexico or Canada.

If you want to make the argument that the Pontiac G8 is going to be built in Australia then shipped here, that is true, for the first few years. Then it will be built in America. All to get it to market faster.

Since I can not see the future, I can not say where the VOLT will source from, but again, it would be a point of pride and frankly assuage doubts that the VOLT is an America car if it were actually built in America. It would also make the Claim that GM is as good as any other company to build it in their home market for their home market.

I read your misgivings you have to having this car built in America by Americans. They are rather opinionated and ultimately serve nothing. It’s the usual angst over the American Capitalist system, which GM can not play like a con anymore if they want to be around another 100 years. Again I don’t know where this car will source. I doubt it would stop me from buying one. But I will say this, I would rather it have “Made in America” stamped on it rather than “Made in Mexico”.

Blakkarr there comes a time when America need to assess whether we can truly manufacture automobiles and be successful. I personally do not think so, and what once was an American hallmark may very well go the way of the covered wagon for America. So be it, it does not bother me in the least as there are plenty of automotive options out there for Americans’ to chose from, and they seem to be doing that quite well. You are incorrect about “…misgivings you have to having this car built in America by Americans.” Blue collar labor markets are disappearing in America—they are being replaced by automation, or sought elsewhere, period. And to clear the air I do not care where it is built as long as it is built well, backed well (yeah, I know GM has a new warranty policy that does not mean anything if they doublespeak their way out of a claim), and gives me value. To play the nationalist card is for fools, and will further handicap America, instead of America making a better product, or shipping in a better product. The G[rafted]8 is a great idea, because America does not build cars anymore, and at least GM can sell something worth owning. About the only concession I will give is American trucks, and that is it. America’s future is predicated on its brainpower—not its hands.

What, sounds like the whole Camero deal. My question is- Are they ever going to actually produce anything? Or just keep running in circles.

Ricardo Head: “The laws of the land”? Get a clue, the jobs many of the illegals occupy are ones even low class “hard working heartland Americans” would refuse to take. Take all the illegals out and see what happens to the economy, moron.

F451, you’re an idiot. and LamborghiniZ, where are the facts to back your argument?

toyota#1forever better than being a charlatan like you.

toyota#1forever.
that was a dumb comment.
illegals take a lot of the low end jobs no one else will
if you take all the low end jobs, then after a while americans will come back into them after wages for them go up, but only at the cost of higher product prices

Disregarding the arguments about unions, national pride, etc…

What do we do if/when we enter into a large unilateral war and no longer have a manufacturing base to ramp up and convert to weapons manufacture?

Then we’re f*cked. A bit of a realist perspective, I know, but one that no one has seriously addressed. Our country has to maintain a sizable manufacturing base.

toyota#1forever: truong got it right, you’re looking for facts? How about the fact that illegals take many, many low end jobs, from factory workers to cleaning your houses. The reality is, if we say, forced them all out of the country, all of these jobs would be open and exposed, leaving a gaping, flaming hole in the economy. And no, low class American workers would not jump on these jobs, because the illegals taking occupying them before were doing so for less than minimum wage, but the American lower class will only accept anything at minimum wage or above. So the jobs would remain empty and stagnant, the economy would continue a downturn, Real Gross Domestic Product would go down, etc etc. Here are the facts you want. Good enough? Then as truong said, Americans would wait until the wages would be sufficiently high enough and then they’d be willing to fill these positions, but by raising the wages, the manufacturers would have to raise the PRICES of the products, causing many prices to significantly increase. It’s common sense.

In conclusion, the best deal at this point for everyone is to not be bigoted, ignorant, and more or less just totally out of touch and ask for the illegals to be deported, but to leave them here, because we’re getting lower prices, and they’re getting work that is in effect enabling them to make money and pump that into our economy, just another added benefit. They also make more than they would alternatively in Mexico. It works out for everyone really, but many people are far too blind to see that. Like Ricardo Head.

I’ll point out that the word “illegal” is self-explanatory, and leave it at that. If immigrating illegally is just fine and dandy, why not look the other way to robbery? Or let’s go further: rape? Murder?

hey build it

Whoa, Prime GTP. Immigrating iIlegal isn’t just “fine and dandy” simply because we want to control the amount of traffic coming in. But what LamborghiniZ and Truong say is true. The economy would simply crash without immigrants (legal and illegal). We only let the best in legally, they in turn start businesses and keep their money longer because they’re not in the American mindset of spending spending spending. Fact: most millionares in American get there in one generation, and haven’t been here more than about two. Illegal immigrants on the other hand do all the dirty work, it’s just true. We’re turning a blind eye, while on the other hand we’re pretending to be opposed to illegal immigration simply because we don’t want to be overwhelmed.

Let’s go to Mexico

Enter Mexico illegally. Never mind immigration quotas, visas, international law, or any of that nonsense.

Once there, demand that the local government provide free medical care for you and your entire family.

Demand bilingual nurses and doctors.

Demand free bilingual local government forms, bulletins, etc.

Procreate abundantly.

Deflect any criticism of this allegedly irresponsible reproductive behavior with, “It is a cultural United States thing. You would not understand, pal.”

Keep your American identity strong.

Fly Old Glory from your rooftop, or proudly display it in your front window or, on your car bumper.

Speak only English at home and in public and insist that your children do likewise.

Demand classes on American culture in the Mexican school system.

Demand a local Mexican driver license. This will afford other legal rights and will go far to legitimize your unauthorized, illegal, presence in Mexico.

Insist that local Mexican law enforcement teach English to all its officers.

Good luck! You’ll be demanding for the rest of time or soon dead. Because it will never happen. It will not happen in Mexico or any other country in the world… Except right here… Land of the naive.

^ You might be right. Maybe illegals are realizing how valuble they are. hmm?

I would not call all those corperations taking advantage of immigrants naive, and I know about it first hand, even though my grandfather came here legally.

PrimeGTP: You’re illogical, you’re making so many false parallels I don’t even know where to start. In fact it’s not worth starting because you don’t know what you’re talking about, and are clearly uninformed on the subject so I’ll save my breath and you can save having to think hard.

CTS DRIVER: It’s not really like that when they come here, is the thing. And like I said, they are a very crucial aspect of our economy, there is NO way of getting around that, no matter how hard you try. And you’re trying.

Let the irony flow LamboZ… “the best deal at this point for everyone is to not be bigoted, ignorant, and more or less just totally out of touch”… Meanwhile you state that Americans are too lazy or selfish to take so-called low paying jobs. I love it.

You are out of touch my friend. Explain your views to the people in Arizona, New Mexico, California, DC, Maryland, whose violent crime rates are exploding because of hispanic gangs. Where do you think those hispanic gangs are coming from?? Your ‘why can’t we all just get along’ mentality is nieve and half assed. Sure it’s a pleasent thought, but real problems take a bit more thought than feel good sentimentality. Wait until one of them runs into you on the street. No license, no insurance, no identity. Guess who pays for your damages?

There is a reason they are called ILLEGAL ALIENS. Because they broke the law! I for one don’t care to spend my tax dollars on criminals for health care and education. Get legalized and start paying god damn taxes. I help pay for this country and people like me have every damn right to not want criminals here sucking up their hard earned tax dollars.

CTS Driver, nice post.
Do you get your 3 hours a day?

sure do piablo, im addicted to lln.

^CTS, I think you’re missing me. I’m asking: WHAT IS YOUR POINT?

Your solution of finding legal workers sounds nice but it’s just frankly not that easy. I live in Sothern Cali too, and I’m not hispanic. Maybe if we didn’t have huge companies using them in sugar cane crops it’d be easier to implement a program of some sort. Maybe if this wasn’t going on for as long and a lot of them didn’t have families here it wouldn’t be as much of a problem either. I have pals in Mexico having trouble just getting a visa to visit (for a month or so) as we speak, and they have money AND connections. If they didn’t, they’re only shot would be sneaking across the boarder.

Again, I’m not saying it’s right. It’s just the way it is.

coughnextpriuswillcomewithplugincapabilitycough. excuse me.

Nice posts, CTS DRIVER.

And just one of you guys try and whine about “my language” in my last post, because I don’t want to hear it, so save your breath.

F451, you think America can’t build cars like they used to? Have you ever driven a modern Cadillac, such as a 2007 Escalade, an SRX with the new interior, or an STS-V. They are amazing. They are extremely well built. And if you have any doubts about the interiors, just sit in an STS-V with a red interior. The red suede inserts on the seats are awesome.
Anyway, the Volt is a great idea and is going to work much better than the gay Prius.

Hey lamboZ, try to clean up the language

LamborghiniZ you’re the idiot. you didn’t give any facts in your list of “facts”. why do you call it “bigoted” if a tax paying citizen wants our LAWS to be inforced??!! i don’t know what they’re teaching you kids in school these days (assuming you’re paying attention), but what do you think the long term consequences of your utopian-open-borders america would be? be patient and attentive young one and you’ll be surprised what a couple of decades will do to your ability to appreciate authority. and where are all the cries of injustice toward the mexican goverment? shouldn’t that be the starting point?

LamborghiniZ who do you think did all those jobs BEFORE the illegals were here?? 30, 40, 50 years ago?? AMERICANS!!! sheesh…. you know what, why not just throw all laws out the window, that way no one will ever be doing anyhting illegal?

lotusfire and lambo i realy do agree with the fact that we need them as bad as they need us, its just not good for us as a country, but we all seem to agree on that point.
this was a really good conversation, thanks everybody.

v-series…isnt it nice that gm has found a new dorection with cadillac, they are just gorgeous and bring back the term rides like a cadillac.

the crime doesnt even start to touch what is happening in france and holland, france burned last year, and muslim extremists have killed vangoughs grandson and threatened the whole country. At least the imigrants here actually can get a better life instead of being totally swept under the carpet.
deantj, we are no lazier than any other western country, stereotypes define ignorance, ever heard of work smarter not harder?
anyways mexican workers are very smart, just as smart as a us or canadian worker, the quality of cars built in mexica has really improved alot, so i have alot of faith in north american workers as a whole. the volt will be great no matter which north american plant builds it.
stadt wrote:Disregarding the arguments about unions, national pride, etc…

What do we do if/when we enter into a large unilateral war and no longer have a manufacturing base to ramp up and convert to weapons manufacture?

Then we’re f*cked. A bit of a realist perspective, I know, but one that no one has seriously addressed. Our country has to maintain a sizable manufacturing base.

Comment by stadt, posted on March8 at 1:31 am

the govt will comendeer all foreign factories in this country if it happens, toyota plants will be producing tanks and airplanes just like ww2.

CTS DRIVER: You make some very good points, I guess where we can agree is that at this point the economy needs illegal immigrants, regardless of the other hazardous effects that that might bring. I do see your points though

GMCsyclone#478: Apparently those “few decades” you speak of so knowledgeably haven’t taught you one of the basic rules of social interactions. By staring with “LamborghiniZ you’re the idiot”, you lose all credibility. Too bad, try again. You’re too obsessed with the concept of “our laws” and not nearly as interested in the concept of “WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO OUR ECONOMY IF WE DEPORTED THEM ALL”. You need facts? What facts did I not give? The facts in this case aren’t numbers, though I’m sure such a convenient medium works well with your limited understanding. The facts are in concepts, the concept that the economy would buckle and fall under if all those jobs were left vacant. And in case you didn’t know, there have been illegal immigrants for decades, so your little point about “30, 40, 50, years ago” is invalidated. Not to mention the fact that we’re talking about today, that is, 2007, not 1967, even if blue collar working Americans were willing to take those jobs 50 years ago, who says they would be willing to now? It’s another era buddy, times have changed, and you know what else? It’s time for you to change with them.

V-Series: Other than Cadillac, no, the domestics cannot build cars like they used to. It’s actually pathetic how inept the Big 3 are at making cars these days, Cadillac is the one exception. The other brands, for the high majority, quite simply blow compared to the competition. Good joke by the way..

lambo is right on the money
housing costs would double or triple
food costs would double or triple
manufacturing costs would double or triple
construction costs would soar
etc.etc.etc
im not ready to pay 20 dollars for a bag of oranges.
or $60 for a pound for prime rib.
you think $400,000 is a lot for a house now pay each person building it $60,000 a year and see the cost then.
sad to say it but they ARE an integral part of our society.

LamborghiniZ, first off i apoligize for calling you an idiot, it was typed in the post above yours and wrongfully attributed to you (however, i noticed you’ve called Ricardo Head a moron and Piablo ignorant - in your posts above). CTS DRIVER makes excellent points if you read all of his posts. also i don’t recall ever saying that i wanted all illegals deported imediately. but to use the fact that they ARE currently here and intertwined into our society is not an argument in support of open borders. neither should that fact remove the burden of assimilation from the imigrants and place it on their new home - america. and i will again bring up the mexican government. why do they seem to not be held to any level of expectation or even acountability? no one trashes them or calls them lazy. they have countless natural resouces, an incredible geographical location, AND a seemingly endless worker base. whats the problem??? oh yeah, america continues to take on other’s burdens in the name of humanity, so why bother. God bless america
btw: have you contrasted the way americans treat illegals to the way mexicans treat their illegals? thats right, south of their border things are even worse and guess what? mexicans (including their government) don’t want them. many of these mexico-bound job-seeking immigrants are outright raped, killed or at the very least robbed before being forcefully and systematically deported. see, it’s not patriotic americans that are bigoted, but those that stereotype them.

GMCsyclone#478: There’s no way for us to agree on this topic, and well I’ve made all the points I find valid, and I see some of yours too. A decent debate we’ve had here, one that actually stayed on the topic and out of personal insults for the most part, gotta respect that on LLN.

yes good discussion. we might never agree on this but discussion is important.

Lambo, so you’re not a bigot if it’s true?? haha. I’m sure the KKK has used that once or twice in the past. Lazy or selfish are two reasons I assumed you thought Americans do not take the jobs that you propose only Illegals would take. If those are not the reasons, then what the resons you suppose? Whatever reason you have, you are wrong. Here’s an article for ya…
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5215724,00.html
Oops, there goes your dumbass theory. After one of the largest raids in US history, it seems those Americans who don’t want the jobs illegals take, lined up out the door to take those jobs. HMPH! Weird. Your theory on jobs comes from the same ‘I Hate America’ pool the rest of the libs pull their ideas from. Illegals take the jobs Americans won’t work?? Yep, that’s got love and warmth alllll over it.

Have you ever learned anything about economics? If you had, you’d understand what I was talking about, but since you clearly skipped those courses, there goes YOUR dumbass theory. The reasons are not that Americans are lazy and selfish, it’s that they have become accustomed to doing work at a higher level than that of the jobs that many illegals occupy, and they wouldn’t take those jobs unless there was higher pay, which would inevitably cause businesses to raise prices, which would effect everyone, me, you’re incredibly degenerate ass, and all consumers. Regardless of what your precious little link says, I know what I’m talking about, it’s pure economics and you know nothing of it, go back to school.

LamborghiniZ, hate to bring it up but didn’t you recently get on me about calling you an idiot? (such a horrible word.) then you pull this stuff above?? i find it amazing how the people that have to anounce their ‘tolerance’ from a bull-horn have the least tolerance of all. just re-read your last couple of posts and you should get what i’m talking about. what you libs don’t understand is that you merely deflect your anger somewhere else.
oh, and your argument is once again simply ‘because i feel this way’. that might work for you but don’t tell others not to think or not have an opinion thats different than yours… you nazi

Yes, I echo Csyclone’s words.

I know it’s tough to remain proud when someone has just proved you wrong. Many people find this hard, so you are no different. However, I would much rather gain the respect of my adversary and admit being wrong than to appear too proud and indellibley ignorant. It’s not too late LamboZ…

And for anyone who owns a Prius, like LamboZ’s dad, here’s an article to read about them. And really this goes for any battery powered car. If your intentions in buying a battery powered car are environmentally motivated, read this article.

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188

hahaha “nazi”, considering I’m jewish..good one.

Also, this isn’t based on “because I feel this way”, how many times have I said this before, it’s based on simple economics, this isn’t the way I feel: IT’S HOW THE ECONOMY WORKS, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SPELL THIS OUT TO YOU GUYS. Piablo you’ve proved nothing, you have one little random article citing one instance, I could find 10 that prove you wrong, but it’s not worth my time, don’t you see that your links actually prove nothing? If i watch Fox News, they’ll tell me Iraq was a good idea, but that doesn’t make it true, now does it?

As for you GMCsyclone, yes I mentioned you calling me an idiot, because I hadn’t said **** to you before that, however Piablo instigated by insulting me first, it’s really quite simple.

And the reality is, if you look at politics, from the environment, to the war in iraq, to almost anything, the conservatives are actually the ones to deflect themselves being wrong by exaggerating, lying, or simply not ever addressing reality. This is one thing I am able to do, and by learning economics, I’m addressing this issue we’re debating here by facing reality, you two, however, appear to be very delusional. Don’t try and bash “the liberals” when the conservatives are the ones who are the ones hiding behind a platform of lies, deceit, and corruption. Haha totally contradictory ,and totally bull****

You guys are so incredibly naive, you have the idea in your head that based on some random sources, based on some preconceived knowledge that you obtain that is actually in all reality, totally false, that you know what you’re talking about. Stop attempting to act like you know better than the way the market system works, because you don’t, this isn’t up for debate…fascists (stealing a little line from cyclone there)

You can spell it, even translate it any which way you like. You are wrong. I posted an article citing an example as to why you are wrong. Ignore that all you would like too. It doesn’t change the fact that, you are wrong. Anyone else interested in the truth will follow my link and also find, you are wrong. I have plenty of knowledge in economics, who cares? Supply and demand, highschool classwork my friend. I wouldn’t be too proud. Say there was a shroud of importance in your economic theories of Americans not accepting jobs you wouldn’t take, you have yet to cite any important ideas regarding the sociology aspect to this… something of equal if not greater importance. Not to mention citing one example supporting your beliefs beyond ‘I’m right because I said so’. Childish. You are simple minded LamboZ. The world is far more complex than your black/white, republican/democrat, good/evil, supply/demand, all/nothing mind works. Just because you really really really want it to be true, doesn’t make it true.

And on a final note, when you grow up and learn a thing or two about politics as well, you’ll find both parties lie, cheat, steal… not just Republicans. And any other party for that matter.

lambo and piablo, have you guys considered journalism, seriousy? both of you guys are very eloquent, and seem to be very highly educated, everytime i see your posts i read them asap. kudos for both of you, theese extermely intellegent conversations are just great, good job guys.

I’ll use Piablo’s tactic right back at him: “No, YOU’RE wrong, no matter what you think, YOU’RE wrong, you’re simple, I’m complex, as is society, YOU’RE wrong!”. Boy do I love the arguments on this site, most people, suffice to say, can’t debate like this in person, so thanks LLN. And thank you CTS DRIVER, appreciate it

Oh, and thanks to you Piablo, always has to be 2 sides to an argument.

I’m even worse in person I appreciate the impersonation by the way. I do try to inject a bit of connotation into my prose, facts can become dry and boring without a dash of life added to them I will at least admit this LamboZ, if there weren’t people like you here, I would probably be bored with this site and be forced to go find some other site with libs to argue with. So thank you as well.

CTS Driver - Journalism, never. Starting a blog to spew my opinions onto the world in a rather sarcastic cynical way? Maybe. Thanks for the kind words. I too enjoy the comments from the usual characters here. Except Deantj, he’s really just an ass.