Sure Lutz, keep telling yourself that…

I think he’s probably right. The diehards that refuse to give a chance to anything branded with a Toyota emblem will no doubt sustain his numbers.

few here are probably old enough to remember the advent of the origional Tundra .
I remember it well. The same superlatives were being used about it and the ‘talk’ among pundits was that it was going to hurt the domestic full size truck market. Well, the rest is history. The new one is nice, and will do well, but will not have a major affect on the big 3 truck sales. If Ford/Dodge/GM are struggling at making quality cars, they are not having the same problem producing trucks that work, and work well for a long, long time.

The fact that GM is praising Toyota is indicative of maturity and a shift in thinking. Decades ago Detroit laughed when Acura, Infiniti and Lexus were launched.
The Tundra does not appeal to me, but it will certainly be the perfect vehicle for many.

If Lutz can admit this, and he’s about as diehard GM as you can be, then some of the morons on this site should be able to admit it too

Translation — Domestic lovers will continue to buy domestics even when Toyota has a “very, very, very well executed large truck”. We have nothing to fear because we will continue to sell our trucks thanks to nationalism and xenophobia, THIS IS OUR CONTRY!.

Agreed with LamborghiniZ. Now he’s got to translate those superlatives to GM vehicles.

My bimmer is getting its yearly service and so I drove a 2006 Buick Lucerne to work today. Jeez what a piece of crap! Although a rental and a therefore a baseline vehicle, i found the ride waaaay to soft, brakes weak, handling pathetic, and the interior… god a freakin’ nightmare. Comparatively speaking, i had the opportunity to drive an Altima 3.5 SE and it was a far superior car in every single aspect.

So, I get my car back after work, but the only that sucks will be the drive in that POS Lucerne.

I agree with Lanapat7. If Detroit IS going to compete with the the “foreigners”, the first thing they have to do is admit there is a problem, and that begins with being honest with themselves, and the American public, when a competitor has a good, or even superior, product.

By the way—I haven’t driven any of the new Chevy pickups, but I’m sure they drive very well, considering that they ARE pickups. And they sure LOOK better built than the previous generation. The previous generation wasn’t designed with tight gap tolerances, but I believe they were well made, and will prove to be durable over the long haul. And that, to me, is the ultimate measure of how good a vehicle is.

Rey323—I believe you’re confusing quality with preferences. Of the things you mentioned, the only one I think you have a valid gripe with is the brakes; breaks should be as powerful as possible, regardless of the target customer. But all the other items—the ride, then handling, and the interior—are all tuned to suit a different customer than your BMW. I agree that Buicks are way too “gushy” for me, but there are people on this earth who love ‘em that way, and would hate your BMW for being too “stiff”, “hard” or “twitchy”.

As I said in my my last blog entry, I believe that quality ultimately equates to durability, and I think you’d find that overall, Buicks are at least as good as BMW’s in that regard; everything else is just personal preference. And compare the average repair bill for a Buick to the average repair bill for a BMW, and see who wins.

Hmmmmm…Lutz job hunting at Toyota? Hmmmmm

From reviews Iv’e read the new tundra is a nice truck, but toyota made it to compete with the last generation silverado/sierra. in other words the GM trucks are better then the new tundra, at least thats what the reviews I have read said.

Hey Scott – actually, i am not. What I am doing is comparing a GM car to a japanese car of the same year, price point, and target consumer. The Altima was better looking on the outside and in, had way more features, more powerful engine, and drove much better than the Lucerne– of course those are all my opinions. To phrase Lutz’s comment, the Lucerne has got poor styling, poor interior. Its a very bad car.

My bimmer isn’t part of this discussion and is only mentioned because its service required me to rent a car. My 3’s competition would be against the MB C-Class, Lexus IS, Audi A4… Not an Altima or Lucerne.

Further I disagree with you last point. Everything is a personal preference, including durability. I certainly know what i am getting to as far as repair bills with my bimmer. It isn’t the most reliable car in the world. If i wanted one of those, i would have bought a camry. Reliability is a feature. Toyota/Lexus have it, Hyundai and now GM market it with their 100,000 mile warranties.

Keep in mind that you did take a rental, which lends itself to certain abuse that can go unfixed, but many of your comments are valid.

rey323, you got a Buick as a rental from the BMW service center?? Or did u drop it off and went to a local rental car place?

I got a Volvo loaner (not rental) when i dropped my S-60 in the service department recently. Usually all premimum car dealerships give out loaners of the same brand. Nothing less.

Anyways, good job, Bob Putz, for saying that! Now, ur Gay Motors is gonna go down. Ha! Can’t wait

The GM and Ford trucks in the segment are the fittest and as we all know it is survival of the fittest. The two firms that will most suffer from the introduction of the tundra will be Nissan and Dodge. Their offerings are the weakest and oldest respectively.

Still all fighting over second, third, fourth and fifth place…

Well he said bad breaks, poor handling, and a mediocre interior, all of those are huge factors when it comes to buying a car.

The japanese took over the midsize truck segment already. If they rock the full size segment, say goodbye to the big 3.
Luckily for “putz”, a large segment will only buy ford,dodge or chevy, no matter how good the competition.
Having recently bought a new Nissan Frontier, I can tell you, the japanese have made huge strides in the truck department. This thing is awesome. Great power, tough, great offroadability, tows 6600lbs, 1700in the bed, drives almost like a luxury car. The Ranger, S10, etc, are a joke comparatively.
And yes, rey, americas versions of entry level luxury cars, (lucerne, lacrosse, grand prix) are a freaking embarassment when compared to their Japanese competition. When the rest of the old folks die off, so will these brands.

GM trucks are #1, chuckles, if you add them together. Just never reported that way.

And norby, the ranger is on its last legs, and the S-10 hasn’t been sold in 3-4 years. So get your facts straight.

It’s not surprising they took the midsize pickup market because there wasn’t much competition. But, toyota is going to have a much much harder time taking the fullsize because ford and gm’s offerings are incredibly strong (not to mention buyer loyalty). Critics have praised the new silverado and sierra. The tundra is very good, but with the f150 and the new gmt platform, toyota’s sweep like all the other markets isn’t going to be nearly as easy as it was before. IMO toyota is still a couple generations away from being any serious threat.

I just went and looked at the specifications and build on this truck…what a joke. The GVWR and Payload suck, they can’t be serious?! They are coming to the game with numbers that the last-generation Ford and GM half-tons had. They don’t even have a boxed frame, not to mention the sorry looking cross-members, that is hilarious! 5 bolt wheels?! I can’t wait to actually see the spindly axles they have to have on this thing. Their towing numbers don’t add up…where’s the GCWR? The truck is constructed way too light to justify their towing capacity claim, at least I wouldn’t put #10k+ behind that thing and feel confident on the road. Put a dress on the pig and send it home.

Wow. You can tell this is a Detroit-biased site.

Webran61, welcome, you must be new here.

Webran61 I don’t think anyone has any ill feelings towards Detroit.
Maybe some have them towards one of the “professional” sports teams like the Lions, Pistons, Tigers or Redwings.
Personally, I like the city alot, I’ve spent quite a bit of time there…
If you’re referring to domestic vehicles vs. foreign brands, you are quite wrong…mostly domestic haters…

“They” did not take over the midsize truck market, THEY invented it.

The same way they did not take over the small to midsize car market. They invented it.

The Lucerene is a full-size semi-luxury car. The Altima is a mid-size performance family sedan. I would hope that both these cars would not appeal to you, but if one did, it better be the Altima.

I am sure that if you test drove the upper level Lucerene with V8 and suspension quirks you would have enjoyed that much more, still not appealing, but more appealing than the rental.

Boxed Frame??? Are you sure Tundra doesn’t have boxed frame??

Only the engine compartment is boxed, and it appears stamped and welded, not hydroformed. Beyond the engine compartment – from the front of the cab to the rear it is all c-channel and it, too, appears to be stamped and welded.

younggm7 – I’m referring to FSeries vs. Silverado…not all GM “trucks”. If you want the comparison, then let’s add Fseries sales and Mark LT sales vs. Silverado sales and Sierra sales, as classified by that category. Ford wins in sales and registrations in full-size pickups.

New Tundra 390bhp, 5.7L V8 bye bye ford/gm.

Hopefully all the NASCAR loving racist bigots can stop humping the American flag and understand this “foreign truck” is built in texas making US JOBS whilst the big 2.5 execs take multi-million $ bonuses a deciding to outsource to Canada and Mexico…making honest american workers redundant.
This truck has every right to compete with the big 2.5 and i don’t understand all the hate because of the badge that’s on the grill?

I’m still trying to see what is so “well done” about the new Tundra. It’ll make a great yuppy truck . . . like all Tundras before it, but despite its beefy looking exterior it really can’t handle that much as far as serious work trucks are concerned (the leaf springs in the ones I’ve seen are seriously lacking). Also, nothing quite like producing the most fuel ineffiecient gasoline vehicles on the market. The Toyota V8 is far from efficient, especially when compared to more notorious gas guzzlers like Dodge.

Oddglat:

You do of course realize that Toyota has been big in the NASCAR craftsman truck series for many years now right? Very soon they’ll also have a Camry competing in NASCAR, it seems like Toyota values those racist flag-humping NASCAR biggots, even if you don’t. And that gray-haired man in the Toyota Tundra commercials is of course NASCAR living legend Darrel Waltrip. Also you might wanna realize that GM still employs more Americans than Toyota ever has. People like you need to realize that we don’t gain squat if the world economy goes down the toilet, and a few plants in Canada and Mexico isn’t going to do significant damage to our economy. Toyota sure as hell wouldn’t have have as many factories in the US if they had to deal with the UAW, and lose millions each year, its simply more cost effective for them to build vehicles here, and thats true for everyone.

All i can say is that if Toyota has made the US a better place for motorists. the prius Tundra Camry great cars and you are still hating them? Get with the times this isn’t 1942 anymore Imports are here to stay so quit yer’ hatin’.

The Tundra is a truck that can play with the big 2.5 and the people that think that it cannot need to pull their head out the sand.

Whats this bloody “hatin’” you’re talking about? Stop being delusional. Not a single person has left a negative comment on the Tundra. Seriously what are you on about?

And how in God’s name can anyone like the Prius? Accord Hybrid? Hell yes. Camry and Altima Hybrid? Fine. Civic Hybrid? Kinda ugly, but no worse than the ordinary civic sedan. Prius? Hell no. It’s beyond ugly, and the mileage on Hybrids has been proven to not be as good as claimed, so wtf are its redeeming qualities? And whats this “Toyota has made this a better place for motorists” bull? I’m gonna need a reson for that argument. As far as I can see, you’re the one whos doing all the “hatin’”

Funny how all the GM fans are confident that their trucks are the best and the Toyota is “Nice but not a real truck” give or take a word, yet they haven’t given a single example of where the Tundra is lacking.

Even Putz agrees that Toyota did their homework with one. Then he follows up with “To be honest, I don’t think we’ll feel it.” ****y attitude which is just going to make the Toyota truck fans hate the GM twins even more. The Silverado and Sierra are fine offerings, but this arrogant attitude from Putz just makes me want Toyota to stomp the hell out of em.

No he isn’t being ****y. You just haven’t been paying attention. Over the past years Dodge, Chevy, and Ford haven been going back and forth outdoing eachother in the Truck market and not once has the sales order changed. Truck buyers are feirce loyalists, and Toyota absolutely will not be passing GM and Ford in truck sales anytime soon. The last Tundra was a well acclaimed vehicle, it was TOTY, did well in all comparison tests and still never once made a dent in the Big 3’s sales. The Titan came out swinging like all hell, and while its in many ways a better truck than current offerings, still failed to make a scratch on the market. Lutz isn’t being ****y, its the rational conclusion that any rational mind would make. Toyota has at the very very least a good 5 years before they make GM sweat heavy in truck sales.

Lutz is just being polite. He knows that the Tundra will be sitting on the lots collecting dust while the rest of the country is buying Silcverados and Sierras.

Ya know? Real trucks. Not playtoys. They’re going to have to give these piles of **** away and even still the buying public knows a ****box when they see one.

OMG, GMRules all over again!!

All I have to say is this is 1970s all over again……..”the Japanese can’t touch us because Americans love American cars…etc.” My my my, how things have changed since. Have they learned nothing??? Obviously not.

GMnumberone4ever….are you posting while on crack again?

Bob Lutz is very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, smart man, and he likes to say “very, very, very, very, very” very, very much until you very, very, very, much can’t stand it anymore.

Toyota is just diving into the market deeper and deeper, and their offerings in the hal-ton world keep getting better and better. There trucks are not at the level of the Ford-GM offerings at this poitn, but the comment bt Lutz would make you believe they are getting closer. The points by Chuckles are a good one. You have to look at whats underneath sometimes to get the real story…frames….brakes…front structure…etc etc. Ford and GM have the brand loyalty in the truck market, but as Toyota takes their customers from mid-size to full size offerings, their brand loyalty will increase. They will be a major player in this market in the not to distant future.

oddglat-
#1 The only thing toyota has done for america is make domestics better.
#2 Don’t confuse assembly with build.
#3 If you do your research on the previous gen Tundra and the new gen Tundra, you will see that it is still an inferior truck to the offerings by GM and Ford. They need to come to the game with more than size and a big grille. The best way to describe it makes me think of my favorite movie when Tommy Callahan is selling the guy brake pads and he says: “The reason they put a guarantee on the on the box is because they know all they sold you was a guaranteed piece of S–T!”
#4 I’ve been reading this board since it started, funny how the tables have turned, this used to literally be exclusively the place where domestics were bashed and hated on.
#5 You need to do some reading up on quaility and reliability. Toyota management’s arrogance and neglect of manufacturing and build on their vehicles is beginning to catch up with them. Just yesterday I see that they have a _3.3 million_ vehicle problem with engines and oil gelling/sludge.
#6 I don’t hate Toyota, my comments have only reflected that many will say this Tundra is as good as the domestics and it is not close (yet).

Again, all subjective comments. Nobody has given actual examples of where this truck doesn’t measure up. There is nothing but bias here, no actual facts.

This thing really puts the fear into you domestic fans doesn’t it?

You guts are forgetting that most purchasers of pickup trucks are people who work with their truck, they drop **** in it, they bang **** with it. I work with heavy equipment, & I see firsthand exactly why Lutz isn’t worried. My boss made the mistake of buying 3 toyota tundras, it’s amazing how a auger coupling can turn a truck into **** if not taking care. while the GMC was damaged heavily, the toyota was turned into a pop can that was stepped on. These GM’s & Fords are work trucks, not the “put the camping gear into the back with the mountain bike” weekend getaway truck.

People with F150s and Silverados are just as loyal to their respective makers as those with camry’s or Accord’s are to theirs. Toyota faces the same problems getting into the full sized truck market as GM will have trying to make way in the mid sized car market with it’s new Malibu.

oddglat-
#1 The only thing toyota has done for america is make domestics better.
#2 Don’t confuse assembly with build.
#3 If you do your research on the previous gen Tundra and the new gen Tundra, you will see that it is still an inferior truck to the offerings by GM and Ford. They need to come to the game with more than size and a big grille. The best way to describe it makes me think of my favorite movie when Tommy Callahan is selling the guy brake pads and he says: “The reason they put a guarantee on the on the box is because they know all they sold you was a guaranteed piece of S–T!”
#4 I’ve been reading this board since it started, funny how the tables have turned, this used to literally be exclusively the place where domestics were bashed and hated on.
#5 You need to do some reading up on quaility and reliability. Toyota management’s arrogance and neglect of manufacturing and build on their vehicles is beginning to catch up with them. Just yesterday I see that they have a _3.3 million_ vehicle problem with engines and oil gelling/sludge.
#6 I don’t hate Toyota, my comments have only reflected that many will say this Tundra is as good as the domestics and it is not close (yet).

Nothing but subjective comments born out of bias. Still, nobody has given any actual examples of where this truck will fail.

This thing really scares the hell out of you domestic fans huh?

He’s right. Regardless of your opinion on the truck, or what flag you wave, you have to understand that this is going to affect American-brand truck manufacturers and Nissan. This truck will seriously cut into “domestic” sales. Lutz just gets it.
My opinion is, not only will they sell, they will make sizeable profit margins on each and every one of them. Ford, Chevy and Dodge won’t no matter how much they sell. Too much cost. I think they’re in for a rude awakening.

well said joseph and bigjob.

One thing i don’t understand is that any truck enthusiast should be thankful that the “IMPORTS” are competing against the big 2.5 making them get of their asses to (try and) build a better truck.

I think that the import bashes are getting scared that their beloved domestics are not the holy grail anymore and that Toyota is willing to sell a better quality higher reliability truck while they are stuck with an inferior product…

It is funny that on these boards i do not see any actual reasons WHY this truck cannot be a market leader…apart from the obvious Japanese hating import bashing that has become standard issue with the bigots around here

Lutz is very very, very screwed!

My opinion above was not spawned by bigotry, they were spawned by the way it is out on the job site. If Toyota mad a strong work truck, i would have stated as such.

Putz is an arrogant ****y jingoistic bastard. But let’s not worry, he and his flag-waving loyalists will eat their own words well before Putz is laying on his death bed. We have GM stock in our family (as well as Ford), a Tahoe in our household, and a large GM plant in our suburb, but that company is the most arrogant company in the world and if it were MY choice, I wouldn’t buy anything from that xenophobic piece-of-**** company. Not until they bow down from their stupid “An American Revolution”, “This is our country. This is our truck,” and “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit” ad campaigns and fire all their jingoistic redneck executives.

The Tundra is here to stay, and I hope GM is the one who gets affected in the long run. I’ll let Ford have its cake, because they’re a much more humble company who doesn’t wave the American flag to sell their cars. I’d like to see Ford succeed with both their cars and trucks and keep their reigning spot at the top of the truck chain, and I’d like to see DCX succeed as well. And pretty much every other auto company, like Toyota, Honda, etc. But GM can go down the ****hole for all I care.

oddglat-
#1 The only thing toyota has done for america is make domestics better.
#2 Don’t confuse assembly with build.
#3 If you do your research on the previous gen Tundra and the new gen Tundra, you will see that it is still an inferior truck to the offerings by GM and Ford. They need to come to the game with more than size and a big grille. The best way to describe it makes me think of my favorite movie when Tommy Callahan is selling the guy brake pads and he says: “The reason they put a guarantee on the on the box is because they know all they sold you was a guaranteed piece of S–T!”
#4 I’ve been reading this board since it started, funny how the tables have turned, this used to literally be exclusively the place where domestics were bashed and hated on.
#5 You need to do some reading up on quaility and reliability. Toyota management’s arrogance and neglect of manufacturing and build on their vehicles is beginning to catch up with them. Just yesterday I see that they have a _3.3 million_ vehicle problem with engines and oil gelling/sludge.
#6 I don’t hate Toyota, my comments have only reflected that many will say this Tundra is as good as the domestics and it is not close (yet).

Screw you Phil, Lutz is not arrogant, you import freaks are the arrogant ones. Bob knows this truck is a pathetic attempt at a full size and that buyers are going to choose the Silverado and Sierra over some foreign pile of trash any day of the week.

Get over it. Toyota is losing, GM is kicking their ass.

Hail Bob! Youda man!

Everyone, read the most recent winding road issue where they test the new sierra.

oddglat-
#1 The only thing toyota has done for america is make domestics better.
#2 Don’t confuse assembly with build.
#3 If you do your research on the previous gen Tundra and the new gen Tundra, you will see that it is still an inferior truck to the offerings by GM and Ford. They need to come to the game with more than size and a big grille. The best way to describe it makes me think of my favorite movie when Tommy Callahan is selling the guy brake pads and he says: “The reason they put a guarantee on the on the box is because they know all they sold you was a guaranteed piece of S–T!”
#4 I’ve been reading this board since it started, funny how the tables have turned, this used to literally be exclusively the place where domestics were bashed and hated on.
#5 You need to do some reading up on quaility and reliability. Toyota management’s arrogance and neglect of manufacturing and build on their vehicles is beginning to catch up with them. Just yesterday I see that they have a _3.3 million_ vehicle problem with engines and oil gelling/sludge.
#6 I don’t hate Toyota, my comments have only reflected that many will say this Tundra is as good as the domestics and it is not close (yet).

Again, all subjective comments. Nobody has given actual examples of where this truck doesn’t measure up. There is nothing but bias here, no actual facts.

halflifehavock, got a link to that? Much appreciated, thanx.

garbage-

Granted there are some idiots that post on these blogs, with that said…

Toyota will not fail, I just state that the truck is still sub-par. If you read my earlier posts I did point out just a few areas of weakness in the truck.

Scared? No.

Yes, weaknesses. With only 5 lug bolt patterns the wheels are surely to fall off and without a completely hydroformed frame the the truck will likely fold in half under load.

Look at Mr. Lutz trying to kiss ass. lol Can anyone tell me where John Moss is?

GarbageMotorsCo

last time I checked the rear frame of the new tundra is not boxed.

They say you don’t need it to be boxed.. Ford found out the hard way in 1980 that you do if you want a serious work truck..

This is a hell of an attempt at a full size, but their hitting this market in the wrong areas. I think chuckles was the only one to actually dig into the guts of this truck, and he exposed the biggest weakness that will kill this truck. The truck isn’t solid if the skeleton is weak. I just want to see what the company that has lead this segment for 30 years has to say then they come up with their redesigned pickup in 2008???

jonluc,
Sorry, the “majority” of american full size truck buyers are not construction workers that haul 10klbs worth of boulders to work everyday. Those are COMMERCIALS!
Do a survey at your local mall. Take a good look at every full size truck in the parking lot and tell me how many have ANY dings or scratches in the bed. Or any other signs of hard work.
The majority of truck buyers, like the majority of SUV buyers, never use their vehicles for anything tougher than bouncing over speed bumps, and never put anything in the bed heavier than that new couch from Ethan Allen.
Toyota will continue to erode the big 3’s market share by simply building better vehicles. They have no need for giant rebates, discounts, etc.
And yes, I consider a car built on american soil to be an american car.

that ’survey’ would hardly be an accurate representation of what people use their trucks for. Its like thinking people don’t need a 9 passenger SUV because you see them driving by themselves.
Most people dont haul loads of stuff to park at the mall with. I have seen plenty of trucks out in the woods and at the dump and at home depot full of bricks that look nice and clean (like mine). That would be pride of ownership. Just because you drive in and out of job sites dosent mean your truck is going to look a wreck.
Toyota has tried for years to make more inroads into the Big 3 makers share, most noticably by competing in the Craftsman Truck series. Also in the various off road racing series where, funny enough, Ford Rangers still compete rather well.

Bob, wtf are you talking about! Either you’re being really nice or really stupid. These trucks are toys next to your trucks. Unreliable, weakass toys!

Stand up proud man! Be proud of your rigs! You’re looking at the end of an era, Ford and Dodge don’t stand a chance of surviving and the Nissans and Toyotas? ****, those are just toys!

Put a nail in each of them coffins Bob, they’re cow**** beneath your feet. You’ve won. Congratulations are in order. Don’t go kissing Toyotas ass now.

norby413 –

I’m glad you consider that a car “assembled” (correction made)on American soil to be American.

Too bad those same said companies to which you are obviously referring take the profits that are made to Japan.

That’s true, profits made on Japanese products made in America go to Japan and profits made on American cars made in Mexico or Canada (like my 300) come back to the states.

i love toyota trucks, simply amazing and tuff….. numbers speak for themselves, stop hatin

Yup, Ford, Nissan, Dodge and now Toyota are soon victims of the American Revolution. As someone above said, they are dog**** beneath your feet. This pile of crap isn’t going to harm the mighty GM one single bit. If anything, this just means 200,000 prospective Tundra buyers are going to be added to the GM fray. Nobody is going to buy this thing. It’s not a real truck.

Exactly,numbers do speak for themselves, that’s why Ford sold the most last years and 29 years previous, GM and Dodge have gone back and forth for number two, usually number 2 going to GM. Before you people log a comment like domestics are f’ed, look at the product comparisons, no I mean really look, that new Tundra has a weakness under every panel.
As for all of you complaining about all the foreign hating, come on, I’ve said in the past that the automotive market is the best example of what is going on throught the american economy. Domestic product is being lost to foreign markets, why, not because their quality is better, and I would love to see someone actually back up that claim. Ower perception of foreign products are way over rated and ower american products are way over analized.
Just yesterday I was speaking with a gentlman about a Ford Focus and how he found out that the trannys have issues. He found a similar complained 16 times on a national site. We looked it up, the funny thing is their were 3 times more complaints about trannys on a Toyota Carolla and litterally hundreds of complaints on various items on the Honda Prius, Subaru and Chrysler were in their two. The funny thing is that of all these 16 negative comments came from a list of 600+ people discussing the Focus.
If someone is going to say anything good or bad fine, but bring your facts to the table to, not just on one item, but on all in their competition.
For everyone hating on foreign product, the rest of us have to realize that it is a chunk out of ower economy. I’m not saying I’m all for the bashing, but you can understand were the emotions are comming from.

Did I just call the Honda Civic a Prius, sorry everyone for being a retard???

Mujician, facts don’t have to always be written down in a blog or magazine. My facts are I drive a few of these cars -as rentals, others’ cars, etc.- and I can’t wait to get back to my own cars. I’d argue that “owner’s perception” is the ONLY thing that matters in cars. You cannot tell me that driving a G6 sedan (I haven’t driven a coupe) is better than driving a Camry SE, for example. I won’t believe you based on my experience. Not all judgement on brands comes from anti-import or anti-American or anti-German. I was raised in Texas. I don’t live there now, but, I know trucks. I know what people use trucks for. My first two vehicles were trucks. I’ve had several since. I can tell you that the Toyota Tundras that I’ve been in are the nicest, most well-built trucks and are very capable despite being undersized up to this point. My fact is, Tundra is better and more reliable than the other brands that I’ve owned (Chevy, Ford and GMC). Fact.

Norby, I havn’t seen any of your commercials. I guess I was wrong about the point, but I guess it comes down to geography, of where you live,work,play. You prolly live in a town with more than 300,000 people. I don’t. Where I live, our trucks ARE the only vehicle of choice. They are mostly the big 3, very few imports. Why? It’s not because of their engines or drivetrains. It’s the solidity of the truck itself. It’s the physical strength. I work in gravel pit with a neighbouring mine. The imports just can’t cut it with the work needed.
Gabage, if you bothered to read my post all the way through, I do believe I did give you an actual example of where your truck doesn’t measure up.

chuckles / Shumpy..

Right on the money. This is indeed a light duty truck. People say that “most people don’t use their truck for hauling / working.” That is the part of the market that has eroded the most.

My company globally probably bought 10,000 trucks last year, every one of them to be worked.

Guess how many were toyotas? 0.

this year again.. 0

There IS market for the Tundra, but its underengineered skeleton will ensure that they won’t be being bought by the 10s, 100s or thousands by companies who need a tough truck.

As was mentioned, Ford tried the non boxed rear frame 27 years ago. The results were ugly.

A gentleman on blueoval news made the best comment saying that based on GVWR and payload, you’re going to be at 10/10ths all the time. The thing is basically maxed out and light duty work is all it will be great at.

The new tundra is not a bad truck, but it isn’t a heavy duty work truck.

togo.

–Why haven’t you stated the company you work for? Next you will be say that you are the master of bul****io.

“The new tundra is not a bad truck, but it isn’t a heavy duty work truck.”

–have you driven the NEW tundra yet? Or is this yet another Internet road test? if it isn’t a HEAVY DUTY truck then why the heck does it have a massive 10,000lb hauling capability?

way are is there a lot of import haters on this forum? By the way this so-called “evil” import is in fact assembled in TEXAS built by hard working Americans but obviously you do not see that fact because you are on a anti-Japanese crusade ridiculing every product they build… do you hate the Sony Playstation too?

Nothing gets these truck-billies worked up like talking about Toyota trucks–hahaha. I love seeing them perpetuate the ‘insecure truck (suv) owner’ stereotype.

Lutz is giving credit where it’s due. Period.

oddglat, “the money goes back to Japan”, baby! Look, forget about the fact that Americans can buy stocks in their companies and earn div on their profits… that’s only for all them fancy, rich, Wallstreet, city folks. And just remember: if you’re not UAW, you’re not a real American auto worker.

Lutz is giving credit where it’s due. Period.

There is no credit due here. Lutz will be pissing on Toyotas grave by the end of the year. Could it be possible that Lutz is smoozing because he has plans to purchase the ailling automaker? I’m sure Gm plants could use a few more goons to clean the bathrooms.

devilsadvocatewhy do i care if the money goes back to japan it could go to the planet ZAPP but i don’t give a damn because this truck is BUILT by hard working AMERICANS UNLIKE so the “import” hatin’ crusade is getting older than GM Car lineup
I predict you are a frustrated 15 year old import hater because GM cannot rule the world anymore with sub-standard cars/trucks.

Quit playing that same lame anti import BS and admit Toyota HAVE got a contender to the big 2.5

ok Togo i believe you work for.. but you don’t need to write a Steven king novel to explain it.

If I went steven king on you you’d have shat your pants. I would have probably shat myself just writing it.

lol.

This truck is really scaring the domestic humpers, they’re getting uncomfortable with how good it’s going to be and have to get defensive, kind of pathetic

I’m 300 miles north of Ft. McMurray, Alberta. lol Togo’s right. In our industry, we need it.

I just found out that the 5.7L has 381 Hp@5,600 RPM and 401ft/lbs of torque @ 3,600. runs on regular.

DOHC 32-valve with Variable Valve Timing. 3UR-FE 5.7L V8 with open-deck cast aluminum block with siamezed steel-lined cylinders.

Ha HA! It is so funny to see when the children start posting. Surmising what it will be like when they will someday get to drive, or they _are_ of driving age, but are confined to their “teething car”. Of course the new truck on the block is going to make you wet your panties.
I did discover why they “rate” the truck at #10K with the 5.7l, it’s hilarious…4.10 and 4.33 axles? Now I know that gets confusing for the city boys here…we have some problems Houston. I can see it now…petro back at $3.00+/gallon, all the posers will be trading them shiney new trucks for economy cars again. Boys, I can tell you the truck is not getting (quote) 20 MPG with 4.33 gears…
Yes, they put the ponies under the hood, we _hope_ they put a tranny behind it, boy they got the gear ratios?! But, at the end of the day you still have to have the backbone to make it happen…all I can say is where’s the beef?
I remember when Dodge came out with their “contender” in 1993…c-channel frame…by 40-50k on the odometer they popped like a tin can all day long.
Like I said before, lots of nice features (I see they stole alot from the leader’s playbook), not too bad looking, nice big grille, I’m even sure they will do ok, after all…the city folk will buy them. They don’t really have to worry themselves with things like payloads and GCWR’s.
The truck is still a generation away from today’s target…and the target is moving.

Time for a long walk deantj. I dont care if you are the surgon general, you are the loser here. You dont know what people do with their trucks, your views on GM trucks. Mine has been bullet proof, and I am sure my next one (2007 2500HD Duramax) will be as well.

The 2007 2500HD Duramax looks like a fine offering I must say. I would like, however, that drivetrain in the 1500 series. As for the Toyota … whatever.

deantj-
Not a hick, not in-bred, not from the south, don’t live in a double wide, don’t shop at Home Depot, don’t own a GM product (I couldn’t surmise about the quality of the new Silverado/Sierra offerings, I haven’t researched them enough.). I’m not just speculating about only one area of the truck, there are many and I still say, decent enough overall but still a generation out. Please refrain from obcenities, it shows your ignorance.

Thank you, someone needs to put deantj in his grave, he never knows what he is talking about and has nothing informative to say. Also a very ignorant person.

Deantj. What is with all of your obscenities & name calling? Have you not learned how to use your vocabulary? Please, for your sake, come back when you’ve learned how to express yourself in a dignified manner.

Deantj, I’m not a Mexican, I’m not from the south, I don’t live in the suburbs, and I don’t really care for your opinion. The fact is that your IGNORANT and don’t care about anything. Frankly, I’m just sick of your blogs. Please,Please,Please… no more comments. They got old many moons ago.

hahahaha oh god, this thread has been comical to read everyone, people getting offended at deantj’s insults, chuckles’ first post being about as homeboy country **** as i’ve ever seen, and this his second was magically of eloquent construction, the fact is that i agree with deantj on this, the GM offerings are improvements over the last gen, but then again a piece of my very own feces would qualify as an improvement over the last gen, this toyota is engineered to beat the domestics at their own game, which it will do

oh and mujician…you don’t believe global warming exists? where do you live, under a rock? or just don’t get out much? or just naive? maybe ALL THREE?! sad, truly sad

When the price of gas goes up, do Tundra owners experience Prius-envy??

Ok,Ok, where did I say anything about global warming not existing??? I live in Minnesota. If their is any evidence of global warming in the states it is Minnesota. It’s January, their is not even an inch of snow and the temp has been at an average of 38 degrees.
Point being, I guess if I said something about global warming not existing, I obviously ment opposite.

deantj just implied that you had made statements claiming it didn’t exist, look at his posts

Lambo – So because I have done my homework on trucks and know more than the average person about them that makes me a hick? Of you’re referring to the grammer of my previous post, I was trying to talk in language that the some of the more simplistic fellows (GM boys) on this blog could understand, and for that I appologize.(Ha)

WOW you guys are funny. I cant say I know much about the new Toyota, but it looks like its actually full size unlike the last 2. The big engines numbers look good and the first 1/2 ton to offer a 6 speed tranny is impressive. Traditionally Toyotas have several weaknesses, weak brakes, poor steering feel, oh so thin sheet metal, and of course no bargain pricing. Poor steering feel is acceptable on a full size, and the pricing will be offset by good resale values. Weak brakes are very bad news on a truck with 10K towing cap. But their traditional thin sheet metal is unacceptable in a workmans truck, hopefully they will make this big boy with decent sheetmetal. That said I have not seen one in person yet but in the photos this is an ugly ass truck. Also I’ve read they pulled out of their plans to enter the HD market, probably because sales prospects for that market look down over next couple years.