Comments on: Government-funded study says plug-in subsidies a bad deal http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html Car news, reviews, and specs for the auto-industry Sat, 11 Feb 2012 01:04:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: 03T4R http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509567 03T4R Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:53:50 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509567 The TDI is also more efficient than an Escape Hybrid, although it weighs about 500 pounds less. The TDI is also more efficient than an Escape Hybrid, although it weighs about 500 pounds less.

]]> By: 03T4R http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509562 03T4R Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:43:44 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509562 I should have said average hybrid, not average car by the way. I should have said average hybrid, not average car by the way.

]]> By: 03T4R http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509556 03T4R Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:15:13 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509556 Certainly, see VW TDI. It's dependent on driving behavior as well, but it's possible for hybrid emissions to be on par with clean diesel. As per fueleconomy.gov, the Prius emits 4 tons of CO2 and the TDI only 6.2. Not a huge difference, but calling them lower is a stretch I will admit, got carried away there. The TDI only uses 4 more barrels per year as well, once again not a big difference. Compared to the average gas engine, these figures are much better and prices are comparable, even without the government subsidy. Certainly, see VW TDI. It’s dependent on driving behavior as well, but it’s possible for hybrid emissions to be on par with clean diesel. As per fueleconomy.gov, the Prius emits 4 tons of CO2 and the TDI only 6.2. Not a huge difference, but calling them lower is a stretch I will admit, got carried away there. The TDI only uses 4 more barrels per year as well, once again not a big difference. Compared to the average gas engine, these figures are much better and prices are comparable, even without the government subsidy.

]]> By: carstuff http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509499 carstuff Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:38:21 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509499 "Emissions are just as low, if not lower, than most hybrids, the technology is much cheaper and simpler to produce, and the msrp wouldn’t be much more than the average car." ?????????????????? Surely you jest? “Emissions are just as low, if not lower, than most hybrids, the technology is much cheaper and simpler to produce, and the msrp wouldn’t be much more than the average car.”

?????????????????? Surely you jest?

]]> By: 03T4R http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509463 03T4R Tue, 22 Dec 2009 16:51:48 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509463 I think it's time to start building nuclear plants. Cap and tax will not help the environment, it'll just put more cash in the pockets of big government and raise utility costs for us. I think it’s time to start building nuclear plants. Cap and tax will not help the environment, it’ll just put more cash in the pockets of big government and raise utility costs for us.

]]> By: leftwingagenda http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509440 leftwingagenda Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:55:48 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509440 government funding has for decades invented useful things...i'm sure at some point in your life NIH funded technologies and drugs will extend your lifespan, for example...it's very easy to shitbomb the government for everything under the sun, and to pretend it's never funded anything useful, but frankly that attitude is full of crap too...blanket statements are inherently flawed... as far as diesel goes, it's not an optimal long-term solution because 1) it's non-renewable and 2) it pollutes... as a society, from my naive perspective, it's more efficient to push the source of our pollution towards the power plants themselves and away from individual cars...once you centralize the pollution, it will be easier to make large advances in cleaning it up...what's easier, cleaning up a thousand power plants, or cleaning up 100 million cars? i'd argue the power plants...but i'm practical that way... government funding has for decades invented useful things…i’m sure at some point in your life NIH funded technologies and drugs will extend your lifespan, for example…it’s very easy to shitbomb the government for everything under the sun, and to pretend it’s never funded anything useful, but frankly that attitude is full of crap too…blanket statements are inherently flawed…

as far as diesel goes, it’s not an optimal long-term solution because 1) it’s non-renewable and 2) it pollutes…

as a society, from my naive perspective, it’s more efficient to push the source of our pollution towards the power plants themselves and away from individual cars…once you centralize the pollution, it will be easier to make large advances in cleaning it up…what’s easier, cleaning up a thousand power plants, or cleaning up 100 million cars? i’d argue the power plants…but i’m practical that way…

]]> By: Borat http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509433 Borat Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:46:20 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509433 Transistor, Otto and Diesel engines as well as electric motors were not invented by Government. Any government. Why do we expect government to invent something useful? Fathers of this country envisioned the role of government to protect citizens from external and internal harm and to foster the commerce. I hope government can do the job it was designed to do, extras are expensive and usually bear no fruit (federal welfare program was abolished by President Clinton and it was his highest achievement). Transistor, Otto and Diesel engines as well as electric motors were not invented by Government. Any government. Why do we expect government to invent something useful? Fathers of this country envisioned the role of government to protect citizens from external and internal harm and to foster the commerce. I hope government can do the job it was designed to do, extras are expensive and usually bear no fruit (federal welfare program was abolished by President Clinton and it was his highest achievement).

]]> By: 03T4R http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509432 03T4R Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:41:55 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509432 RaineMan, actually the latest diesel technology doesn't require urea injections. They use a specially made filter that only needs to be changed a few times over the life of the car. It's currently used by the German auto makers. RaineMan, actually the latest diesel technology doesn’t require urea injections. They use a specially made filter that only needs to be changed a few times over the life of the car. It’s currently used by the German auto makers.

]]> By: RaineMan http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509415 RaineMan Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:48:56 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509415 The problem with "clean diesels" is the urea injection. I'm not going to the dealer every 3000-5000 miles so they can charge me $100+ to pour a bottle of refined piss into a little tank. The problem with “clean diesels” is the urea injection. I’m not going to the dealer every 3000-5000 miles so they can charge me $100+ to pour a bottle of refined piss into a little tank.

]]> By: 03T4R http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509413 03T4R Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:42:14 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509413 We may not need to rely on foreign oil for much longer: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/03/canadian-oil-sands/kunzig-text/4 We may not need to rely on foreign oil for much longer:

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/03/canadian-oil-sands/kunzig-text/4

]]> By: 03T4R http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509411 03T4R Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:38:18 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509411 So the government wants more people to buy plug in hybrids, yet they also want to cap and tax carbon emissions produced by the coal plants that provide the majority of our energy. Therefore, more plug in hybrids = greater demand on the grid, which results in more coal needed to produce more energy with more emissions. This then means more taxes/penalties paid to the government and higher electrical bills for most Americans. Funny how that works...government efficiency at its best. How about pushing clean diesels? Emissions are just as low, if not lower, than most hybrids, the technology is much cheaper and simpler to produce, and the msrp wouldn't be much more than the average car. So the government wants more people to buy plug in hybrids, yet they also want to cap and tax carbon emissions produced by the coal plants that provide the majority of our energy. Therefore, more plug in hybrids = greater demand on the grid, which results in more coal needed to produce more energy with more emissions. This then means more taxes/penalties paid to the government and higher electrical bills for most Americans. Funny how that works…government efficiency at its best. How about pushing clean diesels? Emissions are just as low, if not lower, than most hybrids, the technology is much cheaper and simpler to produce, and the msrp wouldn’t be much more than the average car.

]]> By: Cardemon04 http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509407 Cardemon04 Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:31:34 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509407 I agree with this report on the simple fact that lithium ion batteries will not get cheaper. However, research can still be beneficial. In recent years research has uncovered certain characteristics of lithium ion batteries that will increase both battery life(time before it needs replacing) and in the future may increase the capacity of the batteries. Being able to decrease the number of batteries used and how often they need replacing will lower the cost of the technology. I have mixed feelings about the govt subsidies of hybrid/electric vehicles. On the one hand I don’t feel tax money should be going toward buying an individual a car. On the other hand it will decrease our dependency on foreign oil and ultimately(hopefully) save us all money. I agree with this report on the simple fact that lithium ion batteries will not get cheaper. However, research can still be beneficial. In recent years research has uncovered certain characteristics of lithium ion batteries that will increase both battery life(time before it needs replacing) and in the future may increase the capacity of the batteries. Being able to decrease the number of batteries used and how often they need replacing will lower the cost of the technology.
I have mixed feelings about the govt subsidies of hybrid/electric vehicles. On the one hand I don’t feel tax money should be going toward buying an individual a car. On the other hand it will decrease our dependency on foreign oil and ultimately(hopefully) save us all money.

]]> By: RaineMan http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509394 RaineMan Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:00:27 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509394 At least someone up there in Washington has some sense. Hybrids and plug-in cars are not practical given current technology and fuel prices. At least someone up there in Washington has some sense. Hybrids and plug-in cars are not practical given current technology and fuel prices.

]]> By: idrinorbarsaku http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509381 idrinorbarsaku Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:14:45 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509381 I'm sure there is a simple solution to debunk this report; GO OUT AND BUY THESE VEHICLES! If I had the money, I would! I’m sure there is a simple solution to debunk this report; GO OUT AND BUY THESE VEHICLES! If I had the money, I would!

]]> By: orangecones http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509369 orangecones Tue, 22 Dec 2009 11:05:46 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509369 somehow i am not surprised by these results, specifically: >>Government-funded study. >>Government-funded >>Government. The same government that's fighting an oil war because of certain interests. Think about it. somehow i am not surprised by these results, specifically:

>>Government-funded study.
>>Government-funded
>>Government.

The same government that’s fighting an oil war because of certain interests.

Think about it.

]]> By: LeftLaneVy http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509365 LeftLaneVy Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:41:36 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509365 basic supply and demand curves, subsidy and DWL http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Taxes_and_subsidies,Supply_and_demand/ basic supply and demand curves, subsidy and DWL

http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Taxes_and_subsidies,Supply_and_demand/

]]> By: Zesty Honda http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509338 Zesty Honda Tue, 22 Dec 2009 05:31:19 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509338 @ Blakkarr; United States NRC is not Canadian, http://sites.nationalacademies.org/NRC/index.htm , It's connected to the National Academy of Sciences; I live in Washington DC and I've walked by the building before. Reading is fundamental. You agree? @ Blakkarr; United States NRC is not Canadian, http://sites.nationalacademies.org/NRC/index.htm , It’s connected to the National Academy of Sciences; I live in Washington DC and I’ve walked by the building before. Reading is fundamental. You agree?

]]> By: Blakkarr http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509333 Blakkarr Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:59:18 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509333 Okay so we are going to start listening to what CANADA has to say concerning our nation's policies and, for once, agreeable long term goals? Oh you didn't know? The NRC is CANADIAN. It's bad enough we have such as fractious government they can't even agree on the time of day, but we are actually going to take the word of another country whose motives an goals may or may not agree with our own. Yeah... No. I don't think so. Okay so we are going to start listening to what CANADA has to say concerning our nation’s policies and, for once, agreeable long term goals?

Oh you didn’t know? The NRC is CANADIAN. It’s bad enough we have such as fractious government they can’t even agree on the time of day, but we are actually going to take the word of another country whose motives an goals may or may not agree with our own.

Yeah… No. I don’t think so.

]]> By: Architect http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509325 Architect Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:20:48 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509325 I don't disagree with the article in general, but I more emphatically concur with idrinorbarsaku...you have to start somewhere. ...AND WHO WOULDN'T WANT TO DRIVE SOMETHING AS SENSUOUS AS THE FISKER FOR AROUND FORTY-GRAND?! I don’t disagree with the article in general, but I more emphatically concur with idrinorbarsaku…you have to start somewhere.

…AND WHO WOULDN’T WANT TO DRIVE SOMETHING AS SENSUOUS AS THE FISKER FOR AROUND FORTY-GRAND?!

]]> By: idrinorbarsaku http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509308 idrinorbarsaku Tue, 22 Dec 2009 03:13:01 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509308 All I'm going to say is that you have to start at one point. There will always be someone who hates new technology. It will be expensive, but I think this is something that could greatly help things in the long run. All I’m going to say is that you have to start at one point. There will always be someone who hates new technology. It will be expensive, but I think this is something that could greatly help things in the long run.

]]> By: Borat http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509307 Borat Tue, 22 Dec 2009 03:10:00 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509307 why one would need diesel hybrids/ what is wrong with diesel? it is economical, it has huge torque compare to similar displacement gasoline engine, so what hybrid (electric motor with extra batteries) will provide? why one would need diesel hybrids/ what is wrong with diesel? it is economical, it has huge torque compare to similar displacement gasoline engine, so what hybrid (electric motor with extra batteries) will provide?

]]> By: Ashes to Ashes_Dust to Dust http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509301 Ashes to Ashes_Dust to Dust Tue, 22 Dec 2009 02:13:26 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509301 A direction that still needs to be explored and furthered as one of the avenues to wean the US off oil. However, early adopters have always paid the price to advance technology and government intervention in the form of a tax credit disrupts this pattern. Not a good thing. Tax credits only mean someone else or your own taxes are increased to makeup for said subsidy. (Unless, of course, you are uber wealthy whereby you get away with murder on taxes to begin with.) A direction that still needs to be explored and furthered as one of the avenues to wean the US off oil. However, early adopters have always paid the price to advance technology and government intervention in the form of a tax credit disrupts this pattern. Not a good thing. Tax credits only mean someone else or your own taxes are increased to makeup for said subsidy. (Unless, of course, you are uber wealthy whereby you get away with murder on taxes to begin with.)

]]> By: vvmasterdrfan http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509299 vvmasterdrfan Tue, 22 Dec 2009 02:12:27 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509299 why cant we have desiel hybrids? why cant we have desiel hybrids?

]]> By: carstuff http://www.leftlanenews.com/government-funded-study-says-plug-in-subsidies-a-bad-deal.html#comment-509295 carstuff Tue, 22 Dec 2009 01:45:21 +0000 http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=23879#comment-509295 Wonder if they also looked at wind and solar energy? Wonder if they also looked at wind and solar energy?

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