Comments on: High diesel fuel costs thwarting automakers’ diesel efforts

By: Z06ified

Z06ified — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:05:33 +0000

I agree something needs to be done about diesel prices in the U.S. Something fishy is going on with the diesel prices here. In western Canada, diesel is cheaper than regular gasoline, as it should be. Why then, is it 50 cents more than regular gasoline on the east coast of the U.S.?

Washington should be all over this situation, as EVERYONE pays for higher diesel fuel cost, whether you own a diesel vehicle or not. Just about everything you buy is transported and harvested by diesel powered vehicles.

If that idiot Nancy Pelosi wants to launch investigations on funny business, she should start with diesel prices in the U.S., not dead bank CEO salaries.

By: CarmodysPrize

CarmodysPrize — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 23:16:41 +0000

I’ve been driving a Golf TDI for about 2 1/2 years. I get 40 mpg around town and near 50 on the highway. Even though the fuel is expensive, I’m still saving money. There are a couple of points worth adding.
First, diesel motors operate at lower rpm and are much stronger (to handle the high compression). This makes them last a very long time. The VW guys say that the motor is just broken in at 50K miles (whatever). This matches my experience, as my mileage has improved from it’s first year of driving around.
Second, diesel fuel can be made from things other than petroleum. that’s not important on a day to day basis, but I like knowing that I’m not absolutely dependent on oil and could make my own fuel if I had to.
Third, diesels have no ignition system (other than glow plugs for starting), so maintenance is very simple. Essentially, I change the oil, filters and empty the water separator. Cars are so reliable now that this may not be a real feature, but it really helps with the post-rationalization.
Last point, it’s really satisfying to have a small car with a ton of torque. You sort of lope along with no effort. It’s a great, though different, driving experience. In addition, if someone is tailgating me, I just punch the throttle a bit, and a huge billow of black smoke comes out of the tailpipe. No more tailgater.

By: 1c3d0g

1c3d0g — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:15:05 +0000

Stinky007: oh yes, my illuminated one, and can you tell me why in Europe Diesel is MUCH cheaper than this side of the Atlantic? I’m telling you, again, that Big Oil *is* involved in price manipulation. Somehow you just don’t get it.

By: yarddog82abn

yarddog82abn — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:00:43 +0000

I would say some thing but you guys got most of it covered, will see after November what happens to the price of gas, and the economy, we had to let go some good people yesterday, sells are slow, just not enough business, they understood, the company gave them a departure bonus and extended there benefits for 60 days. LOL.. I thank I’m next on the chopping block, I guess I need to start filling job appts.

By: Patriot

Patriot — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:46:27 +0000

“everyone has to remember, even though the cost is higher, as many of you may already know, do the math, the cost per mile is still lower than that of its gasoline equivalent. see the VW TDI, 30mpg in the gas version, 40mpg in the diesel.

best cost per gallon gas: 3.54(Rochester, NY)/30mpg = 11.8 cents per mile
best cost per gallon diesel: 4.25(Rochester, NY)/40mpg = 10.625 cents per mile

this means that on average one gets 1 cent cheaper fuel per mile in a diesel than a gasoline vehicle”

A diesel vehicle will cost more than a gas equivalent, and as diesel demand goes up, so will diesel fuel cost. This is a SILLY technology to be pursuing in the states. Absolutely silly. Hybrid/electric is the way to go. At the end of the day, the mileage gains from diesel do not justify making the switch.

By: pav8581

pav8581 — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:37:19 +0000

and to add, the same features on the gasoline cost within $2000, at least here, that come with the diesel, at least what they are projecting for the TDI

By: pav8581

pav8581 — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:35:08 +0000

everyone has to remember, even though the cost is higher, as many of you may already know, do the math, the cost per mile is still lower than that of its gasoline equivalent. see the VW TDI, 30mpg in the gas version, 40mpg in the diesel.

best cost per gallon gas: 3.54(Rochester, NY)/30mpg = 11.8 cents per mile
best cost per gallon diesel: 4.25(Rochester, NY)/40mpg = 10.625 cents per mile

this means that on average one gets 1 cent cheaper fuel per mile in a diesel than a gasoline vehicle

By: shaver

shaver — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:50:31 +0000

^^^^^There is no car that runs on gas and diesel with the flip of switch, anywhere. Half wit.

By: 02WRXPSM

02WRXPSM — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:08:58 +0000

If you added up the posters on this forum with half (or less than half) a brain, you’d have more than half of the posters. Low-sulfur diesel is actually extremely difficult to refine; much tougher than gas if the oil comes from US sources, which tend to be contaminated with sulfur. The premium price you see for diesel right now is actually the refineries passing on the cost of switching their refinement process to low-sulfur, which was government-mandated. Our high cost and low quality of fuel is keeping hundreds of powerful, efficient and “green” cars from being brought to the US, including cars which will run on almost anything… they have cars in Europe and South American which will run on diesel, vegetable oil, biodiesel, gas, gasahol, ethanol, e85 — all the same car, you just throw a switch on the dashboard. As long as Americans hang on to the idea that gas is the only car fuel and to the antiquated idea that price per gallon matters more than gallons per mile, we’ll be left behind by even third-world countries.

By: RaineMan

RaineMan — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:07:09 +0000

Forget price… I’d actually like to be able to find some gasoline period. I just went through 4 different stations before I found one that actually had some. This isn’t the 70’s people! To have a “gas shortage” in this day and age is rediculous.

By: Stinky007

Stinky007 — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 06:19:05 +0000

You want to see how things go: look at Europe…
Small diesels have become increasingly popular and with demand come higher prices! Don’t fool yourself into thinking the price “will” or “should” go down, simple economics will tell you that, yes, diesel fuel will be more expensive if it’s more popular! The governments need to make money off you, so they tax fuel. The tax is fuel makes up most of its final retail price.
Of course there other issues here, such as the fact that you get less diesel than gas from one barrel of oil and the fact that getting “clean” diesel (the one used in road cars), especially ULSD is more expensive than producing gas.
Diesel needs to be separated from paraffin to be efficient, and that process is complex and relatively expensive as diesel and paraffin have very similar chemical compositions. You can search for some facts about diesel production if you want to. Yes, mr. 1c3d0g, I’m talking to YOU! “Any idiot with half a brain can understand that if something needs less refinement before it’s ready for consumption”. If you even bothered to search for facts, you wouldn’t have said that!

By: neptronix

neptronix — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 06:14:41 +0000

it’s quite funny, i was in half moon bay, ca ( near san fransisco ), and diesel was about 3.90/gal vs. the 4.00/gal for regular gasoline over there.

There was a spike in diesel price at one point, but that’s ceased.. where i live it is 50 cents more.

It’s not that the fuel is more expensive, it’s that the added price for a turbo diesel engine, and development of emissions controls for california and the rest of the US, etc doesn’t make financial sense to automakers yet.

And a lot of americans have a hard time paying a $2000-$4000 premium on their cars to save maybe 5-10% on their fuel costs over the lifetime of the car. It makes a lot of sense if you do very heavy highway or a lot of commuting, but for the average joe they don’t see any benefit.

I still want a diesel car because low end torque AND fuel economy are killer sales points to me.. but with electric cars/battery technology being so rapidly developed, i might just skip the diesel generation of cars..

By: John Doe Jr

John Doe Jr — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 03:57:11 +0000

On a separate note, a 14 year old male with severe acne and wearing a Jonas Brothers t-shirt, was arrested outside the Capitol building for disturbing the peace. He was allegedly yelling something about “Needing more oil for GM.”

By: 02WRXPSM

02WRXPSM — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 03:35:51 +0000

Volvo would be one of the other four, as well as Caterpillar.

By: johnnycanuck

johnnycanuck — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 02:14:33 +0000

Big Oil’s top excuses for the high price of diesel:

1) The hand dryers in our executive washrooms are powered by Cummins
2) We’re that close to coming up with an additive to give diesel a lemon fresh scent
3) If it was too cheap you’d all be driving your motor homes to Wal-Mart
4) Gasoline just doesn’t burn long enough when torching small towns to clear space for the back nine
5) What, you think this stuff just comes out of the ground or something?

By: A4

A4 — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 01:37:56 +0000

toyota is certainly not part of the “big three” diesel automakers in the US. Id like to know who the other four are, i bet one is BMW and someone has to be fighting for the Heavy Duty US truck market with the real big three.
however i am very glad to see them fighting for diesel rather than pulling it all back and leaving us with nothing. thank you.

By: zeeck

zeeck — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 01:18:09 +0000

I agree with you dog, but I doubt it is Big Oil, they could still make bank if they cut the price by a dollar or maybe two/gallon, but those damn speculators actually have people in govt listening to them so they decide to jack up the prices, then surprise! it goes back down after summer, even though this summer was definitely a low for travelling. It’s all about someone making a profit.

Also, did anyone else know that the US exports 20% of the oil it refines? hmmm, sounds a little fishy to me…

Also, truckers actually make pretty good income (about 100grand/yr) so I think they would still be able to afford their diesel

By: 1c3d0g

1c3d0g — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 23:41:23 +0000

Of course the price of Diesel needs to come down! North America is built upon the solid idea and implementation of delivery of goods through trucking. For instance, what do y’all think semi-trucks run on, air alone?!? If truckers are forced to find another job because it’s impossible to fill up their rigs without going bankrupt, EVERYTHING will stall and the economy will go from bad to worse very quickly, trust me on this one.

I don’t care what anybody says, all of this is greedy Big Oil’s shady behind-the-scenes work to keep Diesel prices artificially high so they can continue receiving record profits. There’s absolutely NO REASON for Diesel to cost this much since it’s much easier to produce than Gasoline. Any idiot with half a brain can understand that if something needs less refinement before it’s ready for consumption, it’s also less costly to make than a competing product that needs more processing steps before it can be used properly.

By: ktulu

ktulu — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 23:24:54 +0000

It’s still a savings, compared 2 gas