Comments on: High gas prices keep hybrid demand strong

By: autonut

autonut — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 23:17:07 +0000

jdasch1, I was not aware of any electric road ready electric vehicles, except golf carts. Are they allowed to be driven on public roads?

By: jdasch1

jdasch1 — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 04:32:00 +0000

The batteries in my 100% electric vehicle are 9 years old this year with all of them testing 100% capacity. Gas is $3.40 a gallon here and it uses 0% of that! The offset for cheap 0 emission travel is worth some battery expense…but I still am waiting for some battery expense. Hopefully as plug-in hybrids come into the market, we will see battery lease programs come into play to take away the battery worry. Bottom line…the car companies are going into the battery business bigtime, kicking and screaming all the way.

By: autonut

autonut — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 02:36:19 +0000

One more detail about hybrids. This is really great technology, but batteries are scary. CR-V replacement battery cost about $50 at Costco and $120 at dealer. How do you get hybrid battery pack at Costco? And you will need that battery pack – according to Toyota after about 8 years. And it will not be optional: you can’t park automatic hybrid on the hill and let roll down and drop the clutch when battery is dead. How much that battery pack cost? No one saying. You may have to give up to Toyota (Honda, Ford, Nissan) the coins you saved on gas. Which is still better then paying to our Saudi “allies” and to Putin and Co.

By: autonut

autonut — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 02:16:17 +0000

I think all Civics for US are made stateside. I never saw 4 door Civic sedan in Europe, yet a lot of Civics are running there (5 & 3 doors) especially in UK. I believe that with diesel European Accord (Acura TSX) is rated over 50 mpg on highway and about 35 city.
Diesel in my neck of the woods is about 4/gallon, which is almost 25% more then regular. The cars that available with diesel otherwise consume premium (Benz), so actual price difference is less then 20%, with 30% economy of operation. To complete economic equitation resale value of those cars is higher. I don’t think it’s because economy of operation – the engine is much more durable.

By: jackjimturkey

jackjimturkey — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 21:18:46 +0000

Payton: the Fit is where the Civic used to be.

By: nerfer

nerfer — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 21:14:02 +0000

archcommus: you’re absolutely right about the mileage. That’s why half of all hybrids sold are Prius. It simply provides the best math – $22K for a mid-sized family car, best mileage available, Civic Hybrid is close. I agree with you on diesel.

dmbpearl – perhaps you missed or misinterpreted my comment about loading the Prius with 8-foot 2×10s and bags of mulch (and still close the hatch and have room for a passenger). Or put in my mtn bike with the wheels on. With fold-down seats and a hatchback, it’s pretty versatile. More seating room than a Malibu. I don’t normally take the whole family to Home Depot, but could easily do so to the grocery store. And about every 16 months when I really need to I rent a truck (75 minutes for $20), saves a ton of money over the long term. But it would definitely be better if they built them here like the Camrys. This is the first (and only?) car I bought actually built in Japan. Where are the Civic Hybrids made?

By: Payton Byrd

Payton Byrd — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:35:18 +0000

There are a couple of things to consider.

1) The only cars getting 40 MPG without Hyprid are teeny-tiny econoboxes. Both the Prius and Civic Hybrid are considerably larger and more luxurious. You pay for a nice car. Go compare the Civic EX to the Civic Hybrid and do your math again. And before you say the Civic is teeny-tiny, it’s larger than a 1996 Accord.

By: archcommus

archcommus — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:51:15 +0000

nerfer: You’re right, most mid-size cars will not get 30 mpg average unless you do a lot of highway, but most mid-size hybrids will not get 45 mpg, either. Take the Camry: standard 4 cylinder gets 21/31, hybrid gets 33/34. So I was being very generous for both. If you want to try to find examples of models closer to my actual figures, there are plenty of gasoline-only compacts that can get close to 30 mpg combined. The best hybrid comparison in that size class would probably be the Prius, which gets 46 mpg combined, which is spot on with my numbers.

I don’t see how diesel helps much, diesel in my area was $4.15/gal last I checked, so who cares if I’m gaining a few mpg with it when it costs that much.

I do agree that giving less money to the oil-rich nations is a good thing. I was just presenting an argument purely based on an individual’s own finances, likely the most important aspect for most people.

By: Kaizen

Kaizen — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:33:37 +0000

Currently, hybrids are a great way of ‘financing’ the cost of gas. You break-even. Once plug-in technology, high capacity batteries come and maybe even diesel combinations, the savings will far outweigh the added cost.

By: jackjimturkey

jackjimturkey — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:28:50 +0000

pearl: No, the cargo ships run on salt water, and emit platinum

By: dmbpearl

dmbpearl — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:19:56 +0000

Again, if I only had to transport a backpack and a bong, then maybe I could afford to drive a Prius. I guess I could strap my family to the roof rack while they hold the 2×4s and groceries????

I wonder how much oil is burned transporting that Prius across the Pacific and then around the country? Oh wait, I forgot Toyota uses hybrid cargo ships and hybrid tractor trailers.

By: dmbpearl

dmbpearl — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:13:46 +0000

Make that two customers since I own an STS…

Wait drive54, speaking of math, doesn’t GM almost have more customers in the US than Toyota, Honda, and Nissan combined??? Math is hard!

By: nerfer

nerfer — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:13:06 +0000

Another point – I’d buy an American car if I could find one that got better than 40 mpg. But I can’t, so for now I’d rather send my money to Japan than send it to OPEC. If I needed an SUV, it’d be a Ford Explorer Hybrid, hands-down. But I don’t need anything that big, my Prius will handle 8-foot 2×10’s and as much mulch as I need to carry, and I get 50 mpg. (vs 24 mpg in my previous car).

By: nerfer

nerfer — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:06:25 +0000

archcommus – There’s very few cars that will get 30 mpg average, and none with the interior space of a Prius, let alone its features. But the big point is, you forget the increased resale value for a hybrid. The car won’t suddenly stop saving you (or the next purchaser) money after 5 years, so that’s built into the resale value of the car. Then there’s reduced maintenance because the engine isn’t suffering wear and tear while idling at lights, friction brakes last much longer since regen is normally used for braking.

But that’s all minor. What you’re saving is money otherwise spent to support governments that are unfriendly to the U.S., and some of that certainly filters down to terrorists. I don’t like paying for both sides of the war in Iraq! Oil is also our #1 source of the trade imbalance which threatens America’s economy. It keeps us chained to the good will of OPEC. Wasting gas is unpatriotic and un-American. The fact that you can actually save money by buying an efficient car is just a bonus.

By: driver54

driver54 — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:46:05 +0000

Only one customer, need more oil, and it’s you.

By: LaCaLover

LaCaLover — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:20:02 +0000

So At 70mph on the interstate how much does the electric motor contribute apart from weight?

By: Need more oil for GM

Need more oil for GM — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:14:09 +0000

Customers know that if they want dependible, reliable, class leading technology, whether hybrid or not, GM is going to be the one to provide it for them. Not some POS Toyota, Honda or Ford. LOL, and certainly not anything from Chrysler!

By: jackjimturkey

jackjimturkey — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:39:53 +0000

archcomus: good math: a diesel at 36 mpg has the same fuel cost as your 30 mpg non-hybrid, less of a premium and faster break-even point.

By: maximus

maximus — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:17:52 +0000

I’d take one at the same cost of a regular car.

By: blitzkrieg79

blitzkrieg79 — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:51:05 +0000

@archcommus, finally someone who can do the math, hybrids are over rated, they don’t justify the premium they cost over the regular gas engines (if their prices would be the same then its a different story but hybrids are always more expensive than their gasoline only counterparts). Add to that that hybrids over the long run will probably cause MORE environmental damage than gasoline units as the time will come to dispose of the large battery systems and it is clearly visible that hybrids are just a marketing ploy, nothing else, it doesn’t make any economic or environmental sense.

By: archcommus

archcommus — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:24:12 +0000

250 miles/week = 13,000 miles/year

@ 30 mpg (non-hybrid) = 433 gallons * $3.50/gal = $1515
@ 45 mpg (good hybrid) = 289 gallons * $3.50/gal = $1012

savings = ~$500/year

If I own the car for 5 years, that’s a fuel savings of $2500. If they hybrid cost $2500 more than the non-hybrid, I just broke even. Assuming it actually cost $3000-$5000 more which is more likely, I still lost money compared to buying a non-hybrid.

I just don’t see the point until prices drop.

By: johnnycanuck

johnnycanuck — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:19:52 +0000

Funny they didn’t mention how Chrysler’s hybrid sales were faring. Oh dear…

By: nerfer

nerfer — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:11:49 +0000

Full tax credits run out at the end of the quarter when a car maker has sold 60,000 hybrids, but partial credits continue after that. Toyota hit the 60,000 mark in the summer of 2006 and I think has no credits left at all now. Honda is the next biggest hybrid seller, but I don’t know the numbers. Ford might be approaching that number (half way?). Other companies have largely been bit players to this point.