noone cares about hondas and their lawn mower engines

This is such crap. US government is giving people $$$ to encourage them to buy NON-US cars. For all that money you’d be paying for each and every FCX sold, the US government could be spending it to build ethanol and hydrogen and biodiesel fuel stations. Where exactly are the people going to fill up their FCX by the way? Unless it runs on gasoline too, but then what would be the point? Give people 12k so they can drive a hydrogen-capable car but not be able to actually use hydrogen?

Anyway, great looking car and a glimpse at the future. Glad its hydrogen, but really whatever – its a long way until they actually put it on the market.

i think the FCX looks very good, very similar to the lines of the civic, especially the Type R.

Okay, how about some specs??? Why in hell does it meet the qualifications??? Talk about shoddy journalism. Sure I can search the internet on my own, but isn’t the goal of ad based web sites to retain viewer attention as long as possible?

I’m pretty sure it gets the tax cred because it isn’t a hybrid. It uses no gasoline, and by using hydrogen it is emitting only water vapor so it does no harm to the environment.

Commodore: That’s it exactly.
But how quickly will the prices of fuel-cell vehicles fall, and has anyone figured out what to do with the batteries?

The Honda FCX is my favorite Honda.

Commodore – the tax credit isn’t giving people money, it allows people to pay slightly less taxes. That’s a good thing, not bad at all.

If I had some hydrogen, or ethanol (not regular gas with 15% ethanol), or veggie oil station arond me i would dead on by a car that uses it.

The honda Valkryie is my favorite honda

Commodore, its not a US/foriegn issue. Its an eco friendly issue. If the Big 3 makes a car that meets those emissions standards their customers will get the tax credit too. Be upset at the Big3 for being behind the times. Not at Honda for making an eco friendly car or the US govt for giving incentives to anyone willing to pay for these premium prices autos.

ethanol and biofuel will just drive the price of corn and other agricultural products and then ppl will have sumthin else to bitch abt.

niti: that’s true. you’re probably already seeing it

Hydrogen cell cars are the next big environmental calamity in the making for the greenies to bitch about. These cars will be emitting water vapor all over (sounds harmless) which will then convert to high humidity and thus destroy animal life and plants that thrive in arid climates. Also, all that humidity will fuel more hurricanes, which will flood all those poor phucks living on low islands in Bangladesh or wherever, thus causing the next guilt trip.

Of course at that time everyone in the world will blame the USA for paying its citizens $12,000 to kill poor people on islands and all that BS. Al Gore Jr will maybe be out of prison by then and will discover his true calling to save the planet from evil Americans in their big-ass H20-guzzlers, and thus advocate an evaporation tax which in theory could also apply to bottled water and anyone caught jogging, lest they end up skinnier than his fat ass.

You may think that’s a joke, but the gist of it is what will happen. Count on it.

maybe if the price of corn went up then the US govt wouldn’t have to waste BILLIONS of our tax dollars on subsidizing farmers.

Sean I was wondering when someone would bring that up. More demand creates more profits and equal less agra subsidizing. The cost of grain wont increase dramatically.

E85 alternative could essentially cut the flow of oil money to the middle east. We can produce enough gas to fill US needs. We would have more control over our gas prices and any money spent would be going back into our economy. E85 isnt a permanent solution but it’s a viable short term solution for the next 10-15 years… until hydrogen or other technologies have a chance to begin mass production.

Hydrogen cars will be the final answer, as long as the method to produce it is cost effective.

Everybody worries about the hydrogen tanks exploding. The same worries were evident when the first mass produced vehicles came out, that they were rolling explosives. Even though the dangers be more, technologies gone a long way since then; people shouldn’t be worrying so much, these manufacturers aren’t just patching up a bunch of cars.

Ethanol is a terrible product. The government wasn’t thinking wisely when they put this whole spin on ethanol. What does ethanol do? It drives the price of ethanol-producing products sky high, such as feed for livestock. Not only that, it takes huge amounts of energy and money to produce. I will look for the article that added the total costs up for ethanol, but the article said it was around $5.30 for production, transportation, holding, etc..

jJay, Ive read the same articles. Those costs of production dont take into account economies of scale if E85 were mass produced, distributed and sold. Estimates of those costs are much lower.

And the increase in costs of feed, etc is not entirely true. The ag industry is highly subsidized today – what Sean was referring to. The govt would spend less tax dollars paying farmers and can use a smaller portion to offset feed prices.

In the end we have a product that cuts our reliance on foreign oil and puts money back into our economy. For a short term solution I’d say E85 is better than any alternative we can bring online within the next 10-15 years. In 10 years who knows where our gas prices will be. With E85 the govt can always keep subsidizing until economies of scale kicks in and we will have more control over prices. Meaning we can keep them relatively low as compared to oil.

Find me another country that gives tax credits to foreign car companies?
The USA stands for The United Saps of America.
Maybe we should also give tax credits to the Chinese companies that are poisoning us.

Hydrogen sucks, electric vehicles are cheaper to make and easier to use. It’s 1000% more efficient and effective to make the power grid sources eco-friendly than it is to downsize technology to make millions of individual cars eco-friendly.

Hydrogen is such a joke :S

Driven, the article I read took into account costs for ethanol from 1998 to predicting 2010. They got better, but not much.

Besides that, there’s many other problems with ethanol.

-It still produces volatile gases; some more so than gas, and other’s less. It’s not more enviromentally friendly than petroleum.

-There wouldn’t be enough ethanol material to produce enough E85 for the whole country. We’d have to dedicate the whole midwest to corn production.

-Regardless, it still drives up the price of corn, specifically if demand increases (which it has been steadily increasing for the past 6 years). Those fluctuations in demand match up with ones seen in prices too. I know first hand the price of feed for livestock has gone up, and farmers in the area have noticed too.

-Most estimates that I’ve read for E85 production point to it taking almost as much, if not more energy to produce E85 then it will give.

I think the solution is electric vehicles. Why have electric vehicles running around with hydrogen, when you could plug it in at night, and have the nearby power station run off of hydrogen, renewable resources, etc.. Instead of investing billions in hydrogen cars, they could be investing millions in renewable powerplants and better batteries. That would solve more than just car pollution in the process.

I AM GLAD TO HEAR…..KEEP ON PROGRSSING.

I AM GLAD TO HEAR…..KEEP ON PROGRESSING.

jJay, I agree electric should be on the roads with hydrogren in the future. And electric is a greener solution than E85. I am saying E85 is a short term bridge solution to wean ourselves off oil, espcially foreign oil. E85 is something that can be mass produced & distributed today.

Electric car technology wont be ready for real use for more than a decade. So far the best “production” electric had a max range of 160 miles before a long charge is needed (GMs EV1). Most EV vehicles have been in the 60 mile range. That is an not practical for the majority of US drivers.

E85 today, electric & hydrogen in a dacade or longer. And who knows what could be used in the next 50 years.

seanm: worst part about it is the farm-subsidy money mostly goes to giant faceless corporations, while a guy with 10 acres is shut out

R-Head: You mean al gore 3

Driven: “E85 alternative could essentially cut the flow of oil money to the middle east.”
That’s something the “dependence on foreign oil crowd loves to say.”
They’ll still get their money, just from China or India. Are we willing to drill Alaska for the other 15 percent?

steve333: in cali, only touota and honda hybrids could use the carpool lane with a solo driver

maybe if the price of corn went up then the US govt wouldn’t have to waste BILLIONS of our tax dollars on subsidizing farmers.

Comment by seanm415, posted on August9 at 8:50 pm
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i would rather be subsidizing u.s. farmers than trust china to provide us with corn, food should come from home not be imported. i definately go to several farmers markets here in riverside county, there is a world of difference in fresh eggs and produce.
2 years ago it didnt matter but now it really does after all the tainted imports. products dont matter but produce does.

CTS, I agree with you, my point is that the US produces more corn than there is a market for, so you might as well divert some of that production to increasing ethanol production, for the reasons Driven mentioned, and at the same time, because the price of corn increases with that added demand, decrease the amount of our tax dollars used for subsidies (resulting from excess production/low market value). Less immediate dependence on foreign oil, lower taxes, and no change to your ability to enjoy local produce.

jackjim, sorry I wasnt clear. E85 wont cut ALL money to the middle east. It will stop the flow of US money to the middle east. And the US is one of the largest, if not the current largest, purchaser of foreign oil.

Its not like the middle east would suffer if we went to E85. But the US would prosper by putting money back into our own economy instead of giving it to people half way around the world.

Currently the US supplies about 25% of its own oil. Its more than enough for the 15% gas mix needed in E85. So the US could stop sending OPEC US money, then cut off other countries like Venezuela and so on. In the end the US could be self sufficient when it comes to its energy needs. That hasnt occurred in half a century.

RE: CA HOV lanes. Its the same issue as the tax incentives for US citizens buying fuel efficient vehicles. US guidelines set standards that must be met to get the tax break. Just as CA guidelines set standards that must be met to use the HOV lanes solo. Just because the only cars that meet those standards happen to be Toyota and Honda doesnt mean the guidelines favor foreign cars. If the Big3 were to produce a decent car that meets these standards their customers could get the tax incentive and use the HOV lanes solo. I wouldnt hate Toyonda for creating cars that meet the standards. I would be mad at the Big3 for not competing with Toyonda in building a car that meets these standards.

Everyone thinks these laws & incentives favor foreign companies. In reality these are open to anyone. Its the choice of the Big3 not to play ball and produce cars that meet the standards. Another reason I thnk the Big3 management is stuck living in the past and not looking toward the future.

i do agree seanm we give the stuff (corn and wheat) away to the middle east by the shipload, instead they should make ethanol from the corn; we feed their poor for propoganda and in turn they rape us with the oil prices.
those bastards should eat the oil they dig up and the only colonel the should get from us is the one ordering an air strike.

Well put, Driven.

HA HA HA HA!!!! CTS, you kill me!!!!! I like the colonel air strike comment. Gold!