Its not like the middle east would suffer if we went to E85. But the US would prosper by putting money back into our own economy instead of giving it to people half way around the world.

Currently the US supplies about 25% of its own oil. Its more than enough for the 15% gas mix needed in E85. So the US could stop sending OPEC US money, then cut off other countries like Venezuela and so on. In the end the US could be self sufficient when it comes to its energy needs. That hasnt occurred in half a century.

RE: CA HOV lanes. Its the same issue as the tax incentives for US citizens buying fuel efficient vehicles. US guidelines set standards that must be met to get the tax break. Just as CA guidelines set standards that must be met to use the HOV lanes solo. Just because the only cars that meet those standards happen to be Toyota and Honda doesnt mean the guidelines favor foreign cars. If the Big3 were to produce a decent car that meets these standards their customers could get the tax incentive and use the HOV lanes solo. I wouldnt hate Toyonda for creating cars that meet the standards. I would be mad at the Big3 for not competing with Toyonda in building a car that meets these standards.

Everyone thinks these laws & incentives favor foreign companies. In reality these are open to anyone. Its the choice of the Big3 not to play ball and produce cars that meet the standards. Another reason I thnk the Big3 management is stuck living in the past and not looking toward the future.

Comment by seanm415, posted on August9 at 8:50 pm
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i would rather be subsidizing u.s. farmers than trust china to provide us with corn, food should come from home not be imported. i definately go to several farmers markets here in riverside county, there is a world of difference in fresh eggs and produce.
2 years ago it didnt matter but now it really does after all the tainted imports. products dont matter but produce does.

R-Head: You mean al gore 3

Driven: “E85 alternative could essentially cut the flow of oil money to the middle east.”
That’s something the “dependence on foreign oil crowd loves to say.”
They’ll still get their money, just from China or India. Are we willing to drill Alaska for the other 15 percent?

steve333: in cali, only touota and honda hybrids could use the carpool lane with a solo driver

Electric car technology wont be ready for real use for more than a decade. So far the best “production” electric had a max range of 160 miles before a long charge is needed (GMs EV1). Most EV vehicles have been in the 60 mile range. That is an not practical for the majority of US drivers.

E85 today, electric & hydrogen in a dacade or longer. And who knows what could be used in the next 50 years.

Besides that, there’s many other problems with ethanol.

-It still produces volatile gases; some more so than gas, and other’s less. It’s not more enviromentally friendly than petroleum.

-There wouldn’t be enough ethanol material to produce enough E85 for the whole country. We’d have to dedicate the whole midwest to corn production.

-Regardless, it still drives up the price of corn, specifically if demand increases (which it has been steadily increasing for the past 6 years). Those fluctuations in demand match up with ones seen in prices too. I know first hand the price of feed for livestock has gone up, and farmers in the area have noticed too.

-Most estimates that I’ve read for E85 production point to it taking almost as much, if not more energy to produce E85 then it will give.

I think the solution is electric vehicles. Why have electric vehicles running around with hydrogen, when you could plug it in at night, and have the nearby power station run off of hydrogen, renewable resources, etc.. Instead of investing billions in hydrogen cars, they could be investing millions in renewable powerplants and better batteries. That would solve more than just car pollution in the process.

Hydrogen is such a joke :S

And the increase in costs of feed, etc is not entirely true. The ag industry is highly subsidized today – what Sean was referring to. The govt would spend less tax dollars paying farmers and can use a smaller portion to offset feed prices.

In the end we have a product that cuts our reliance on foreign oil and puts money back into our economy. For a short term solution I’d say E85 is better than any alternative we can bring online within the next 10-15 years. In 10 years who knows where our gas prices will be. With E85 the govt can always keep subsidizing until economies of scale kicks in and we will have more control over prices. Meaning we can keep them relatively low as compared to oil.

Everybody worries about the hydrogen tanks exploding. The same worries were evident when the first mass produced vehicles came out, that they were rolling explosives. Even though the dangers be more, technologies gone a long way since then; people shouldn’t be worrying so much, these manufacturers aren’t just patching up a bunch of cars.

Ethanol is a terrible product. The government wasn’t thinking wisely when they put this whole spin on ethanol. What does ethanol do? It drives the price of ethanol-producing products sky high, such as feed for livestock. Not only that, it takes huge amounts of energy and money to produce. I will look for the article that added the total costs up for ethanol, but the article said it was around $5.30 for production, transportation, holding, etc..

E85 alternative could essentially cut the flow of oil money to the middle east. We can produce enough gas to fill US needs. We would have more control over our gas prices and any money spent would be going back into our economy. E85 isnt a permanent solution but it’s a viable short term solution for the next 10-15 years… until hydrogen or other technologies have a chance to begin mass production.

Of course at that time everyone in the world will blame the USA for paying its citizens $12,000 to kill poor people on islands and all that BS. Al Gore Jr will maybe be out of prison by then and will discover his true calling to save the planet from evil Americans in their big-ass H20-guzzlers, and thus advocate an evaporation tax which in theory could also apply to bottled water and anyone caught jogging, lest they end up skinnier than his fat ass.

You may think that’s a joke, but the gist of it is what will happen. Count on it.

Anyway, great looking car and a glimpse at the future. Glad its hydrogen, but really whatever – its a long way until they actually put it on the market.