Umm, yeah…there’s no plans for a cheaper version of the Insight because they already have a Fit hybrid in the works that Honda has already said will be cheaper than the Insight. Duh!

Why chop the price? They didn’t do any price chopping on the MSRPs last year when everyone else (Toyota included) was falling all over themselves to do so, so why start now?

They’ve got a superior product with a competitive price – the smart consumer will make the right choice.

“3 2 1 GO” Superior in WHAT WAY? Name one single place/point that the Insight is superior. Have you even driven this dog?

I have. I can’t really stand either car. So I am not biased. I like German and American.

1. The Insight doesn’t even come close to the Prius’s current MPG, let alone the new one due out next month that the average person is getting better than 60 mpg in. Except for hypermilling, achieving even near 60 would be impossible as a combined mpg. Who cares about momentary mpg, its the total that counts. No way an Insight is getting mid 50’s on average, or the sticker would be higher.
2. The interior is chintzy, cheap and flimsy
3. It is cramped and small inside in comparison to about… every car made.
4. The paint has so much orange peel it looks like a knock-down stucco job.
5. Its technology is no where near Toyotas.
6. It’s LOUD and coarse. The engine noise on hard acceleration is deafening.
7. Dealers are charging $2,000 on top of the price, putting a base Insight inline with a base Prius.
8. Toyota is to cut their Prius price to match the Insight, totally making the Insight Obsolete.

It would make no sense at all to have an Insight over a Prius if they cost exactly the same.

Toyotas have an undisputedly higher reliability records by both JD Powers and Consumer Reports.

Shall I go on?

leftblog.. the Prius price cut will not happen in the US.. particularly with the new model. In California at least, Priuses are still selling for quite a bit over MSRP, and now that US gas prices are down I really doubt Toyota will be upping the supply of the new model, mainly in the interest of keeping vehicles scarce and margins high.

I have also driven an Insight back to back with the new Fit and a Civic Hybrid, and the Civic is understandably quite a bit smoother and quieter overall. Neither the Fit or Insight is a rocket, but why should they be? Most importantly, I saw no evidence of cheap paint or flimsy furnishings in any of them, not even the Fit. And any Toyota and Honda have undisputedly higher reliability records (again, by both JDP and CR) than any German or American vehicle you might consider, especially in this size/price class.

The Prius is not in a shortage in California. It can easily be purchased at MSRP and below today and for quite some time now.
There are not lines of people camped out at dealerships frothing at the mouth to buy the current Prius in California now that gas prices are lower and the economy has reduced demand for new cars in general.

Maybe there will be a spike in demand for the new model the first few months after the 2010 comes out (like there is when almost any new redesigned car model is released).

leftblog…

OK, so you’ve driven them. Good for you. And you’ve an opinion. Good for you. And you’re not biased. Well, I’m not so sure.

You want one point? Sure – PRICE. I won’t do the math for you (I’m sure you’re more than capable) but a difference in MSRP of $2200 equals a LONG, LONG drive before you make that money back in saved fuel – for many people, they may be driving for several years before they make up that difference (based on Prius’ 48/45 mpg to Insight’s 40/43 mpg). As for the new 60+ Prius, well we’ll see what price advantage the Insight has over THAT model soon enough. And again, my point will only be further enhanced. As for what dealers are charging, I haven’t any control over that. If a person chooses to pay MORE for a car than it is worth, so be it. Give it a few months and any alleged overcharging will be gone.

How about another? OK – quality. Toyota quality is on the decline. I think you ought to refer back to your sources at JD Powers and Consumer Reports – and I’m not talking about press releases from the 90’s. But frankly, who cares about “Initial Quality” 3 months after a purchase. Talk to me 3 YEARS after a purchase. And here I’d argue that Honda and Toyota are equally good – far and away superior to most other marques. Same is true for resale. So here I think we have a draw.

As for your points #2, #3, #4, and #6 specifically, I think you’re wrong. There – that’s my opinion. Again, we have a draw. I’ve not yet driven the Insight, but I have driven the Prius, and I can tell you that I was considerably underwhelmed. But a consumer will decide for themselves. And frankly, there’s no way that a Honda product would be launched with the problems that you’re “unbiasedly” pointing out. After all, Honda didn’t contract Chrysler to make these things.

Lastly, maybe the technology in the new Prius is superior. But again, that will come with a distinct price disadvantage. As for pricing the old Prius to match the current Insight, I say “Bravo”. Choice in the marketplace is what we need. Someone wishing for an older design with a weird interior set-up (dash, “gear” lever) can choose it. Someone wishing for a newer design (albeit Prius inspired) and more conventional interior (i.e., the set-up that may encourage more people to “go green” if only because it seems less of a change and all that that could entail) could choose it.

Hmmmm, I guess I stand by my original comment. Thanks for sharing yours.

Were I am from they (Prius) are selling for invoice minus 1000.00 rebate. You would be retarded to buy anywhere else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I could post quotes like these all day long… “…In fact, on vineyard lanes I experienced EV episodes of almost a mile in length before the car defaulted to gasoline engine support. And in a 34-mile jaunt down to Napa, around its neighborhoods and back, I saw 69.8 mpg with only a bit of finesse: I used EV mode through school zones (where there’s a 25-mph limit anyway) and invoked a lot of gasoline-engine shutdown along 35-mph stretches of wine country. And, in full disclosure, other more hypermiling colleagues got 75 mpg along the same route. (I passed a pair of them.)” Road and Track.

Unless you’re hypermiling an Insight downhill, you will never see mpg like this.

“zoomzoomer”
You didn’t see any cheap materials in the Insight? You have to be joking. The entire inside is hard plastic, much of it shiny like the early 90’s Ford and Chevy’s. I implore you to push the panels on the doors, and grab the center console and move it about. I am not talking force here, I’m talking slight pressure. One must be overly reaching in favor of Honda not to acknowledge this. I also again repeat that the characteristics of the Insight are coarse, loud and un refined. Go up an on ramp and try to maintain a conversation with your passenger.

$2,000 at worst, represent about $25 a month. If this type of cash breaks you, I would highly advise getting a Yarris or Matrix which get nearly the same mpg.

If one wants to talk about how long it takes in MPG-to-cost, and how long it takes to recoup the difference, then one WOULD buy a Yarris or a Fit. Or a used Corolla!! Or a used Prius. This argument is patently ridiculous. To justify spending a tad less on a new car because of how long it would take to recoup? Then one would buy the aforementioned cars.

There is more to life than $1000 – $2,000 in a purchase. There is utility, and resale. If one were to put an Insight against a Prius on the used car market, how much $ would there be, if any, in price? What would the average, sensible person choose? A smaller, tiny, less useful, and less mpg model? I don’t think so. I think we all can admit the two would be so close if not exactly the same price, that the nod would always go to the more useful and higher mileage car, which in this case will always be the Prius. What carries more groceries. Which is SAFER? A larger car or a tiny compact cigar box sized one? What would YOU, the reader, rather be in if you were hit by an F150 or an S Class?

Explain to your wife and child that you saved $1,000 or so, at the expense of their lives.

The above facts/ points long term, points to the Prius as well as the short term.

And unless you are blind, the Orange peel in the paint against a Civic is so alarmingly obvious, you have to be trying to be “nice” to the Insight not to admit its there. I didn’t make it up. I saw it from 4 feet away.

One has to understand I WANTED the Insight over the Prius and Civic when I went to the dealership because of all the hype. I had it in my mind to get one for our family. Therefore I was biased at the time, TOWARDS the Insight.

leftblog…

The people who buy these vehicles are interested in two things: saving the planet (or being seen to be saving the planet) and saving fuel. So your $25 a month IS relevant. This makes the argument to just buy a Fit or a Yaris irrelevant – the Hybrid is an accessory that speaks about YOU as well as to your status within your social circle(s). The money saved is something to brag about (especially in our current economic climate). And, with this mindset, a used car is only for the plebes…

I’ll allow time to determine by how much the mileage will be able to exceed the posted government figures; I suspect that you’ll hear the odd story of any number of hybrids and hybrids-to-come that will accomplish the occasional great numbers. I’m more concerned with the everyday – and frankly, there’s more talk about hybrids, in general, not being able to deliver on the mileage figures to which they’ve attached themselves – especially in the colder parts of North America. So give it a few weeks on the lot – the Prius has had a few years!

As for safety, the Prius’ four-stars all-around (except 5 star for driver-side impact) is only the minimum that I’d expect. And I expect that the Insight will at the very least meet this minimum. What is more likely is that the Insight, like most Honda products, will be a “Best In Class”. But of course we won’t know the real numbers until the NHTSA or the IIHS actually test the car – again, the Insight has been for sale for how many days?! Heck, it’s not even for sale yet in Canada. And frankly, to compare this car in a crash to any kind of large truck is patently unfair – but again, any small car against any large truck would be at a similar disadvantage, and a smart wife probably already knows that.

Then there’s your final statement:

“…understand I WANTED the Insight over the Prius and Civic when I went to the dealership because of all the hype. I had it in my mind to get one for our family. Therefore I was biased at the time, TOWARDS the Insight.”

This seems to stand in total contrast to most of your above argument as well as your opening salvo in your first post:

“I can’t really stand either car. So I am not biased. I like German and American.”

Well, which is it? You wanted it? Or you could never stand it? Do you even know what you want, or did you just kick the tires because you hadn’t anything better to do that day?

Forgive me if I don’t take any of your future posts at face value.

Nothing so complicated. I have realized my stupidity in wasting money on expensive Imports, for one, like $100,000 plus cars, and two, I do want to save the planet. So I am over my love affair with sub 5 second German cars. Its time for me to become more responsible and to learn the basics all over, of saving not depleting.

As far as safety, the Prius, and I could be wrong, is not classified a compact. The Insight is. So if a Prius has 5 stars and the Insight has 5 stars for example, the Insight would NOT get 5 stars if given the criteria of the Prius, it would get 2 or 3, making the larger car, a safer car.

You have yet to explain how you can justify a smaller car two save $2,000, in safety and utility. $2,000? come on. This is such a petty amount of money.

You’re right – the Prius is classified as a midsize by the EPA, but so is the Nissan Versa hatch! Let’s be honest, there is very little difference in size between these two cars – kind of like most people would likely think of the new Accord as a midsize, like the Camry, but it is in fact a full-size. Frankly, I wouldn’t want to be in either the Insight or the Prius in the event of a crash, ANY crash. As for utility, I likewise can’t see a great amount of difference between the two (although the Insight’s cargo area did seem a little small when I checked it out at the autoshow.

I guess because I believe that most people would perceive these cars to be the same “size”, perhaps one with a little less elbow room than the other, the other with a little more knee room, whatever, they’re going to look at other factors. Like how new is it. Maybe style (although they’re too similar) will rule the day. Maybe it will be the reputation of one automaker over the other that rules the day for any specific consumer (”Toyota Quality” vs. “Honda Performance”.) Hell, it could come down to availability of colours, I don’t know.

So what does the Insight ultimately have going for it? First, it’s brand new. Second, it’s cheaper. Third, even if the Prius Classic is discounted to price match, for those who want the newest thing, the Prius won’t be it! And at this point, while mileage figures are at least comparable (official figures, anyway), we don’t know about the crash-test results. I’d happily retract my basic financial argument if the results are woefully inadequate for the Insight – I just don’t think that’s going to happen, though.

So, notwithstanding that the Prius is a well-engineered vehicle with slightly superior fuel efficiency, I believe, all things considered in this price bracket, that the price difference is sufficient to consider an Insight as a superior purchase, especially if the buyer is to trade it in within the normal time frame of the average buyer. And over that time average time frame, both cars, driven identically, will have great resale and both cars will perform their given tasks with great ease and efficiency and with little heartache to the owner. And given all of that , overall lower cost of ownership will likely fall to the Insight – but only because of the given initial price difference.

$2000, give or take, is not a great deal of money – but it represents a little over 10 percent of the cost of the car – that is significant. To the buyer in this price range, that is significant. To the buyer who prefers the Prius Classic, it doesn’t matter because the Insight is too…. (insert adjective here: small, inefficient, ugly, cheap in build, etc.) But to the buyers who otherwise see these two cars as perfect competitors, and who prefer the Insight, well, $2000 bucks, here and now in today’s dollars, is better in their pocket than somebody else’s.

As for me, if I think I’d rather they still made the Accord V6 Hybrid, but in a coupe format to join the sedan format that now seems imminent. Perhaps THEN we’d have something really interesting to discuss :0)

Does buying a Prius or any hybrid for that matter make you feel like you’re saving the planet, when the reality is devastation on a whole different level?

“To understand what is at stake, I traveled across Chile to the Atacama desert, the single biggest source of lithium outside Bolivia.

In the parched hills of Chile’s northern region the damage caused by lithium mining is immediately clear. As you approach one of the country’s largest lithium mines the white landscape gives way to what appears to be an endless ploughed field. Huge mountains of discarded bright white salt rise out of the plain. The cracked brown earth of the site crumbles in your hands. There is no sign of animal life anywhere. The scarce water has all been poisoned by chemicals leaked from the mine.”

– “In Search of Lithium”, DAN McDOUGALL
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1166387/In-search-Lithium-The-battle-3rd-element.html

Yea, they’re so “hot” that they’re already discounting them as we speak. I just saw an ad locally for $700 off MSRP. Considering that that’s practically Honda’s entire markup on an Insight…..

They are even discounting MSRP on leases.

I again sat in an one today at a local drawing event and am just 100% dumbfounded how someone could view $1,000 (stated Prius MSRP starting next month and on 2010 models) as a reason to purchase a much smaller, less mpg (significantly) and much less fit-and-finish.

I just look at the interior and can’t get it. I don’t get it! I am under 6′ and I feel like I’m in a Gerbil cage.

$1,000 is a bargain?

If someone is hurting for $1,000 – $2,000 I would HIGHLY suggest one avoid buying a new car. The payment difference is something like $15 – $20 a month. If that breaks your bank, the decision to purchase a $20,000 car seems like a very poor one.

Then look at the Wall Street Journal’s Crash Videos on the Fit and the Insight, and tell me this car is a good decision. Do they come with wheel chairs or Coffins?