Ford (indeed, all the Big Three) spent too much time on giant SUVS, and is paying for it now.

1115: “If Honda were a larger company with a full line then they would be outselling Chevy.” Maybe.
“Honda clearly makes a superior more reliable product than the trailer trash brand from GM.” Uh, no.
johnnycanuck: “Detroit threw out so much unreliable crap during the ’80s and ’90s they lost those customers and their offspring forever.” Probably.

howsmydriving
“Quite simply, they build a better product.” THAN WHO??

HemiRoadRunner: “Maybe all the people cattering to toyota and honda should be put in jail for treason.” No.

“And don’t even tell me japan makes better cars,” Some Japanese cars ARE better than some American cars.

xyunya: “Douglas MacArthur did a fine job rebuilding Japan.” Yep.

RaineMan: I drive a buick. When I drive. I used $4 gas to my advantage before I crossed the pond. Tiger Woods should go away.

frylock350
“It’s uncool to be a white-collar person and like American stuff.” Yep.

I’ll never drismiss anything just because it’s American.

the Fit might be Honda’s best car.

Workers at Toyota plants in the U.S. make a decent wage.

affliction: “I will never buy anything other than Toyota/L—s and Honda/A—a.” Better you than me! “These cars are ROCK SOLID.” Ha ha ha!

IAfter my civic died at 91k, I bought a ford Tempo of the same year. IT WAS A HUGE STEP UP!!!

I’ve never heard of a toyonda lasting 30 years. 17 is the highest i’ve heard.

vincenzo: “The only reason we’re seeing halfway decent vehicles from GM and Ford currently is due to the American public refusing to buy on patriotism alone.” You’re very close to right on that one.

sj79: “Ford and Chevy make much better trucks than Toyota and Honda and trucks are what’s suffering right now due to gas prices.” Yep.

Toyotas aren’t tough enough to be police cars.
And you hit the nail on the head with this:
“Almost every car today is reliable. Almost every car today is well made. The same idiots who are on here repeating crap they learned in the 70s and 80s about domestic reliability also likely believe Hyundai is a third-rate brand with crappy cars.”

Impulsive: “The company that builds what I want will get the sale.” Hear, hear!

Zo0M 6 Zo0M:

Camry Or Malibu MALIBU
Honda Pilot or Dodge Journey NEITHER
Chevrolet Aveo or Honda Fit FIT
Toyota Corolla or Ford Focus FOCUS, FOR DAMN SURE!

HemiRoadRunner: “What a piece of $H!T the civic was.” You must be talki9ng about mine!
The Alero was a decent car.

BTW, those Honda drivers are my biggest PITA as well. It’s a good thing their cars never break down…

Is that why GM sells more vehicles than Toyota and Honda in the US market? When people brag about foreign nameplates owning over half the market I wonder if they are smart enough to realize there are 7 major foreign automakers selling vehicles in the US compared to the Big 3. It’s not surprising that the domestics are facing their smallest share ever when you consider the market is more saturated than ever. Mark my words, there will be no easy marketshare gains for Toyota, Honda or Nissan going forward due to market saturation. Even Hyundai has been stuck in recent years in spite of vastly improved product. Within the next decade its conceivable that no automaker will have more than 20% share in the US market and that automaker will likely be GM or Toyota. People here are talking about the superiority of Honda and Toyota product but in the three largest markets where they compete head on with GM they are selling less vehicles than GM. care to explain? In Europe they have had far less success displacing the native automakers becaue Europeans dont worship Japanese engineering the way Americans do. In fact, Americans worship any engineering that is seen as foreign since we assume other countries are more capable than we are when it comes to designing and building things.

“Nissan Rogue, Honda Accords and Civics, G35s, Jettas, the odd BMW, A4, Mazda3, you name it. My girlfriend’s Mazda3 has 100,000 miles on it and it sounds like a tomb going down the street. My brother’s Grand Cherokee and H3, my dad’s Olds, my Wrangler, all squeaky rattly shotboxes after a year of driving. They’re JUST NOT MADE THE SAME.”

stop lying. First of all the Rogue just came out so I surely hope it has no rattles. Secondly you dont tell us the age of the grand cherokee you are referencing. Thirdly, the H3 is a recent model so I dont buy that you have been in one that is full of rattles. At my job we have 1996 model Ford Taurus’ and they dont rattle. They are ugly and unrefined but they do not rattle. My parents had a ‘98 Olds that didnt rattle. We had a Chevy for 12 years (from GM’s supposed darkest hour- the 80s) that didnt rattle. I had an Alero for 6 years that didnt rattle. You are so biased and ill informed I wouldnt trust anything you say on here. YOu are either exaggerating or flat out lying. Lets not get into the quality of the 3 since my brother had one that was full of problems and had to be replaced after about 2.5 years of ownership. Tranny problems, brake problems, weak AC that couldnt cool the car, etc. He had a loaner car at least twice and the car had at least 4 or 5 warranty repairs during his ownership.

But I completely agree with Zo0M 6… when you compare cars like the Malibu to the Accord, Aveo to the Fit, on the basis of bang for buck, the Jap’s always come out ahead.

That just straight up BS.

So, in conclusion my fellow faggoteers, supporting a hyperunionized microcosm of communism = ****ty products = blind support of nonpatriotic values. See how easy it is to dupe a stupid redneck sisterfisting homo like Frylock and HRR? HAve a good night and **** you very much!

Not to start up a controversy but let’s compare::

Camry Or Malibu
Honda Pilot or Dodge Journey
Chevrolet Aveo or Honda Fit
Toyota Corolla or Ford Focus

its all about what I get for the money and what seems to be the better buy.

****wads buy Japanese-only. That would be you ‘affliction’ … you, too, are a ****wad.

This site is filled with too many ****wads.

The company that builds what I want will get the sale, no other.

Almost every car today is reliable. Almost every car today is well made. The same idiots who are on hear repeating crap they learned in the 70s and 80s about domestic reliability also likely believe Hyundai is a third rate brand with crappy cars. times change folks, we arent in the 80s anymore.

Also, saying we should buy Japanese cars because our clothes and toys are made in china is stupid. Many of the lower cost items we buy arent made in the US anymore so we have no choice but to buy imported goods. We do have a choice when it comes to cars and those choices are as good as what Japan is selling us. I also wonder how people can simultaneously talk about how American Japanese cars are these days but then insist that Japanese cars are far superior to “american” cars. If most non luxury Japanese cars are made in the US by Americans, with American suppliers and designed by Americans I would love to know how they could be much better than Big 3 branded cars that are made and designed by Americans. Can anyon explain that? Since Japanese cars arent really Japanese anymore I see no reason for me to be in awe of their supposed superiority.

” I’ve had a Civic with a bad transmission so I understand that Honda or Toyota aren’t bulletproof but at least they give their customer’s more respect/ better value and more choices than most of domestic do.”

This is one of the stupidest things I have read here and that’s saying something. WTF are you talking about? More choices? Honda gives you more choices? They dont even make a real truck. They dont make any RWD sedans. They dont even make a V8 engine. Toyota has a broader lineup but their small cars are lame. The Yaris has been trashed by the media and the new corolla isnt generating any excitement in the showroom. People like you explain why we are getting mediocre vehicles from Honda and Toyota these days. If vehicles like the 2009 Pilot, 2008 Accord, 2009 TSX, Rav 4, FJ Cruiser and Tundra are the best that the genius’ at Honda and Toyota can offer I will pass. Since Toyota and Honda are so into choices maybe you can explain why there’s no hybrid version of the Accord or why neither company has come out with a hybrid system for large vehicles with poor mileage. When is Toyota coming out with a diesel? When will Toyota offer a sports car again? When will Honda give us a practical sports car to replace the slow selling S2000? When will Acura make real luxury vehicles? Honda and Toyota have no respect for the customer because they correctly assume that most of their buyers are too closed minded and brainwashed to cross shop their mediocre products with those from GM or Mazda or Ford or even Hyundai. Get in the latest offerings from Honda and especially Toyota and you will see the complacency. The Camry and RAV4 interiors are proof that Toyota knows its owners have low expectations and they will do whatever they can to meet them with cheap materials and half ass fit and finish. Fortunately for Toyota their average buyer/fan will buy anything they put on the market.

The only reason we’re seeing halfway decent vehicles from GM and Ford currently is due to the American public refusing to buy on patriotism alone.

It’s the same kind of stupid on here that has the domestics in such problems. Come on if the Domestic had built as many Compacts with fuel efficient engine as they did SUV they would be in a better position. You can’t blame Honda or Toyota for keeping to small cars and still building cars for different segments. I guess they can do more than one thing at a time. I’ve had a Civic with a bad transmission so I understand that Honda or Toyota aren’t bulletproof but at least they give their customer’s more respect/ better value and more choices than most of domestic do. As to the ridiculous statement that you should support an American automaker that sends more jobs to other country (help its bottom line), Come on! Give me a break.

Honda’s fleet business is no longer practically zero. As of last year it was up to 57,000 from 19,000 the year before (Ford’s declined 180,000, mostly through rental reductions). I suspect Honda’s will be slightly larger this year. 1/3 of 57,000, though, is 19,000. 437k minus 19k still puts Honda below Ford on individual retail basis. I think that will change by the end of the year, but what hasn’t changed is that Ford still actively sells to fleets that aren’t rental, and I think it is disingenuous to ignore those sales or discount them as much as they have been here.

As far as quickness the Cobalt will outrun the Fit no problem, its more powerful and the Fit really isn’t much lighter. The 1.5L 5sp Fit makes 118hp/107ft-lbs to deal with 2646lbs of cub weight. The 2.2L 5sp Cobalt makes 148hp/155ft-lbs to deal with 2681(coupe) or 2747(sedan) lbs of curb weight. The Ecotec’s extra grunt should more than overcome the 40-100lb difference. The reason the cars are so close in weight is that the fit dimensionally really isn’t much smaller than a Cobalt/Civic. Its packaged more space efficiently than Civic or Cobalt however.

I won’t argue usefulness with you as the Fit wins hands down. I’m a huge proponent of station wagons over sedans. A wagon (or hatch) will always be more useful than a sedan. The reason I bought a Suburban is because in 2007 there were no big wagons for me to buy. I’m glad I have the Suburban though, I love the ride quality and the usefulness. Plus when I take fishing trips, two vehicles are no longer required as I can take all 6-7 of us and the boat and the luggage/fishing gear. If GM offered a big RWD wagon again (and I mean comparable to my Caprice, not the midsized joke of a wagon the Commodore wagon is) I’d give up my SUV.

I’ve driven a Cobalt and a Civic and I didn’t find either terribly fun to drive, but I guess everyone has their own idea of fun though. I love driving around in my LT1 Caprice wagon (that’s the whole reason I kept it after getting the Suburban).

I’m considering buying an Cobalt XFE (in 2dr trim, just because it looks better) as a daily driver as the fuel costs for the Suburban are getting to the point where I’d almost break even and I’d keep some miles off the Suburban that way.

@HHR,
That sounds like an awesome car! I love Mopar muscle from that era. A 1970 Cuda is one of my dream machines. I plan on keeping the LT1 Caprice until it become a classic in its own right.

I’ve never even heard of a “Cobalt XFE”. I own a Cobalt SS and am a regular on many Cobalt forums. I just think it is a marketing gimick by Chevy to make the Cobalt look just a little bit better.

The Cobalt is big… huge for a compact car infact… but as far as cargo space goes it has zero. I can’t even fit normal sized luggage or any boxes in my own trunk b/c the opening is too narrow. I have to put the back seats down (via the in-trunk releases) and load things backwards… which is a huge PITA. Not to mention the lovely center seatbelt which gets in the way of any wide boxes… you can’t fit 3 people back there anyways… why have it?

With the Fit… pop the back hatch… the middle seats fold flat with a button press… wow… tons of cargo room should I ever need it.

As far as faster… I would love to see a base model Cobalt try and outrun a Fit Sport with the manual tranny. The Cobalt probably weighs 500lbs more. And gas mileage… please… I know the 2.2 Ecotec… it may be good… but it’s not that stellar.

The Fit is a zippy little car that never feels slow or anemic on the roads. It’s no demon… it’s not even really fast… but it manouvers superbly and I felt really comfortable driving it around.

Don’t get me wrong… I love my Cobalt… but I just need a bit more utility… and a smaller price tag too.

Chevrolet bought Daewoo as a manufacturer of small and reasonably reliable cars and I suspect that without that it would be in deeper troubles that it’s at the moment.

As to the mpg, yes, I was able to get 30 mpg on average from a then brand new 3-liter V6 Taurus I rented in 2006. Without much effort. It’s just that the car cornered like a cathedral, had brakes made of marshmellows, air-con was on the bring of disintegraion and the rubber insulation on the boot lid didn’t quite hold in place ….

BTW, Its nice to see another person who still respects their country, my kudos to you and my jealousy if you indeed do own a hemi Roadrunner.

@xyunya,
Do you even understand what nationalism is? Germany’s “religion” (they were Christian you know) was fascism. Nationalism is a strong loyalty to and support of one’s own country. The United States used to be fiercely nationalistic, but now its uncool to support domestic industry. For an American, buying a Toyota does NOT constitute support of one’s own country. It is in fact the opposite of supporting one’s own country. Did you know that Japan holds the largest chunk of American trade deficit? We funnel more money into Toyota than we do OPEC. its basic economics people, you don’t support domestic industry your economy will collapse.