If a democrat is elected president in 2008, say goodbye to automotive choice.

and attached to the bill is the end of the bill of rights ammendment.

Can anyone find the exact ID number for this bill? Searching all over and can’t seem to find it. I suppose it wouldn’t make sense for anyone in the media to quote it, as someone may go do some reading and find out how bogus it all is.

Found it. Haha, I like this bit:

The Energy Independence and Security Act:

* Increases the efficiency of vehicles to 35 miles per gallon by 2020, for the first time in a generation;
* Makes an historic commitment to American-grown biofuels;
* Requires for the first time that 15 percent of our electricity come from renewable sources;
* Improves energy efficiency of a wide range of products, appliances, lighting and buildings; and
* Invests in clean renewable and alternative energy tax incentives to build viable markets and create jobs.

Yes, it’s a magical piece of paper that makes all this stuff so! Thank you, democrats. I’m going to go start my car now and get 35 MPG because you all voted on a piece of paper! What a joke.

So now 15% of our energy has to come from spotty unreliable sources like solar and wind. What that little summary doesn’t tell you is that hydropower, nuclear power, and clean coal, which are all much more reliable, are not considered renewable resources. Yea. Someone tell me with a straight face this isn’t an anti-capitalist bill disguised as energy independence.

Yes, because this is the first piece of legislation to ever affect automakers and it’s going to make them all go out of business or kill their entire model line outside of compact/hybrid cars, then the evil government will go and tear down every power plant that’s not wind/solar/etc because 15% = 100% Damn our communist regime!

Kosai, I don’t think you comprehend what 15% is on a national scale, especially when it’s allocated for only inefficient technologies pushed by the environmental movement which is home to much of the old communist support that went underground after the Cold War.

Answer me this: If the current environmental movement isn’t a disguise for anti-capitalist activities, and it really is only about cleaning up the environment and moving to renewable energy, why the strong opposition to clean nuclear and hydro power?

Answer: Because solar/wind power does not work on a large scale, and the proponents of this type of legislation know that. They rely on it to be so, because it *keeps* industries from meeting the required targets so they continue to be taxed and fined. Nuclear power would significantly increase the percentage of the national power grid that is from renewable energy, and that’s exactly what the people pushing these types of bills DON’T want. If that were to happen, the gravy train of taxes and fines would end.

If they increased CAFE standards in the early 90s like they were talking about, it would have been a gift to American Automakers, and the American public in general.

Oh yea, and the rich environmentalist new-energy types all love wind power until you try to build them near their multimillion dollar beachfront estates. Then they scream bloody murder. Yea, they really care about independence or the environment.

They don’t like hydro because of its possible impact on river ecology. I’m not really against hydro, but I can’t really deny that impact.

Nuclear power isn’t exactly clean either, that’s why they don’t support it.

Sorry, try again. Wind power is best placed offshore, and that could affect sea life over miles due to all the seabed construction. Don’t see Ms. Pelosi taking that into account for her magical piece of paper. Inconsistent as usual.

And modern nuclear power produces a mere fraction of the waste it used to. In an environmental impact to power generation ratio, it’s the best.

Yes, because they’re going to start plopping windmills on coral reefs?

I guess you’re also volunteering your state into a nationwide nuclear waste compact?

****, LLN ate my comment again.

1. Windmill farms in sensitive areas have already been thwarted by people who ACTUALLY care about marine life, not soci alist fakes.

2. Look up how much waste a modern plant actually generates. And we are screwing ourselves out of that technology in the US.

3. I live in Jersey. We’re ALREADY full of waste.

Like someone mentioned the last time this gas pump pic rolled up on LLN, this is still a shady proposition. Just a good way to make the government some cash. That is, for the companies that just can’t reach this CAFE standard. They’ll just have to pay out the fines. I think BMW has been doing it in the U.S. for years now. It’s much like these factories dumping **** into the rivers, is it more cost effective to update their plant, or just pay the fines?

CA36, thanks for digging up more info on this bill. There are some sketchy line items. Biofuel? We know there isn’t enough land in NA to grow enough corn for biofuel to make much of a dent…

Solar, wind, biofuel are all really just stop gaps until we have a renewable energy source that works on a large scale.

Nuclear has the “not in my backyard” mentality. The public is still scared.

Ca36: I’m voting for Romney, if he wins the nomination. Otherwise, I’m writing in. Automotive choice has been dead for a while.

Cafe should be scrapped.

Let’s take a few minutes to remember mitsubishi and its Zero, and all it’s contributions to american life

CA36GTP: good call of BS on the millionaire environmentalists.

Most of the fear of windmills comes from people who think that windmills will slaughter birds, or that they will destroy their view/property value.

Nobody wants nuclear waste, states get sued over such matters. Not everybody wants to live in a New Jersey Just because they’ve become more efficient doesn’t mean we should give up on pursing lower impact methods. Nuclear waste is still nuclear waste, regardless of the quantity. It’s incredibly tough and dangerous to dispose of the stuff.

Better late that never, I guess. CAFE standards worked the first time they were implemented. Currently the US has the lowest fuel economy of any nation in the world. On average US cars get half the fuel economy of other industrialized countries’ Cars. Look, you’ll still be able to buy you gas guzzling Ford dually, if you want, it’s just that the Ford will have to sell a car or cars to make it all average to 35mpg ( WTF is wrong about that?) If anything we should be complaining that this bill isn’t doing enough, we are severely falling behind.

Our so-called safety standards and emissions requirements are causing cars to be heavier and to burn more fuel. 35 mpg is going to be nearly impossible to meet without getting rid of affordable V6 and V8 powered cars and trucks. Of course, running them by 2020 will likely be difficult since gas will probably be 10+ bucks a gallon by then.

Even if someone came up with cheap, renewable energy that cost 30 cents a gallon to make, we will likely be burning oil.

You can bet on this: environmentalists of all stripes will be there to block any progress made by nitpicking it to death. It is sick that these people have the ear of the government. Sick.

The oil companies power has a hand in this bill going through…not to mention the mass amounts of money it would take to lower cars fuel consumption.

In the 1970’s carmakers balked when the goverment banned unleaded fuel. EVERYTIME the goverment proposes a change to existing regulations, someone always raises the “carmakers will go out of business”, “goodbye choice”, damned communist/pinko/enviro-weinies arguements.
If you’re breathing fresh air now and you’re kids aren’t retarded from lead in the air, hug an environmentalist.

Jesus … you short-sighted, selfish clowns are so lost it’s almost pointless to argue with you. It’s clear that legislation is the only way to deal with a mentality of a certain group where “I want to do what I want, when I want” is all that matters.

If CAFE was in effect since ‘90, things might not be so dire with oil recently touching $99/barrel and on its way well over $100. Rest assured, your freedom of choice will be limited whether this bill passes or not.

Oh, how about focusing on your triple deficits which, in part, are responsible for your exploding money supply and monetary inflation. Crying about this bill and how unfair it is only serves to show how lost you really are.

Bring on $150+/barrel … maybe these ridiculous horsepower wars will be replaced with fuel efficiency wars and you’ll all have to settle for less but pay more. Too bad your lack of progress and willingness to ADAPT has kept you stagnant for the last 18 years.

“Bring on $150+/barrel … maybe these ridiculous horsepower wars will be replaced with fuel efficiency wars and you’ll all have to settle for less but pay more.”

I agree… 230HP is enough to beat everyone on the CA freeways as long as you have the guts and the willingness to pay a big ticket.

hey they make a shelby cobra that runs on hydrogen http://www.clean-air.org/Hydrogen%20Cobra%20Story/Hydrogen%20Cobra.htm
sure it gets terrible gas mileage but it has a 427 and it is hydrogen

Coal/nuclear is not renewable and hydro has great effects on the enviro. Lets face it there is no panacea. Its about efficient living and life style, that is the big dif between U.S. and rest of modern world.
Need to move humans into cities, design all things from homes to trans to food supply to be more efficient.
Eating local grown food, not working 1 hr from house, controlling waste and water use. Stuff like that will have more effect then any legistation against companies.

Educating the masses is the only thing that can save this damaged planet.

We’ve talked about how CAFE is a political, issue, but, it there were any doubt, naming your energy bill the “Energy Independence and Security Act” should clear that up. That’s right, let’s drive the right cars so we can to be free from terrorism.

The big problem in the U.S. is our energy policy, and nothing really changes. Years ago, Brazil decided it wanted to do what it could to be more oil-independent. Now, if not 100%, then close to it, of new cars sold in Brazil run on 100% ethanol–saving billions a year on oil imports. As we all know, with all the cars sold in the U.S., going 100% ethanol would be impossible, but the point is, a country can have its priorities in line.

When George Dub took office, he had a meeting with the energy industry to identify the country’s energy prerogatives. Those in attendance? Big Oil, and Big Oil only.

A lot of the “renewable” energies like wind and solar are privately owned and then sold onto the electric grid. Since wind and solar doesn’t greatly affect most of the large utilities’ bottom line, they have no incentive to invest in the technology.

Nuclear is good, but like some people have said, however comparatively clean, it still produces waste that has to be landfilled or otherwise disposed of. There are lots of cleaner, renewable energies out there, but the technology and the infrastructure have to exist to “harvest” them. Wave action of the ocean, geothermal power, wind, solar. It’s there for the taking, we just need the commitment–as a country–to do it.

impulsive, part of the problem i have is all the useless attachments, like the last energy bill that was rejected because the ANWAR attachment. This should be automotive legislation and keep the infrastructure bills seperate. i dont drive an electric car so an auto bill attached to a hydropower bill should be seperated, thats why they usually fail miserably, they confuse the hell out of themselves. Anwar is a wasteland that will be underwater soon due to global warming so why not get the resources from it while we can?

i don’t know about all this mpg talk…this is america after all…

ha, just kidding…saving money on stuff rules!

The FIRST thing we should do is stop combining energy independence with “global warming”. Climate fluctuations are natural, huge Chinese oil consumption is not.

CA36: EXACTLY! the world has warmed and cooled before humans were here…yeah it might not be a good thing, but it has happened before. i think humans may have accelerated it, but it was going to happen anyway. and china is being a greedy bitch…

global warming is al gore psycho babble bull****

‘CTS’, I focus more on the auto aspect but if there are issues with the bill as a whole, you as the voters need to get involved rather than sitting by idly and complaining on a car blog. I see how little is being done about your triple deficits, so I shouldn’t believe anything will be done about this bill. By the time the people finally address the problem, you’ll all have been raped.

Sad.

impulsive: just because some of us talk about these issues on a car blog does not mean that we don’t go out and vote or give our opinion to those who matter on these issues. this blog personally just takes up boring time at my boring job…and i’m sure you’ll bitch at us for that too.

even though you weren’t addressing this to me i felt i had to get involved as i hate when people assume **** about others…especially when it comes to important issues

I definately agree with you impulsive we cant expect the govt to do it all for us and the govt cant just sit back and let things remain the same. i think the current generation of americans have the right outlook on social and economic views. i vote every time and play a proactive role in getting friends and family to vote also, because those who choose not to vote have no right to complain about the government.

democrats suck

‘CTS’, good for you … there should be a lot more like you.

As for ‘bob3′ … dude, you’re bringing up global warming which wasn’t even part of the discussion here until ‘CA’ brought it up … why don’t you focus on how you and your compatriots are now nearly 50% poorer vis-a-vis the rest of the rest of the industrialized world since your dollar value has PLUMMETTED? And will continue to fall until you back your worthless paper with gold or when your interest rates go to 25%.

Repeating the same old **** with respect to Gore and global warming and democrats and left-wing and other obfuscation doesn’t cut it … deal with the pollution, deal with your reliance on foreign oil responsibly … but most importantly, deal with your failing economy since triple deficits are dragging your asses into a quagmire.

maximus: repubicrats suck

‘autonut’, ideally, the population would be educated … unfortunately, you find here a sample of the less-than-intelligent portion of the American voting public living the laissez-faire way of life.

And so the downward spiral of a once great nation continues.

Comment by SwerveEarly:
…… “Educating the masses is the only thing that can save this damaged planet.”

Hate to burst your fantasy and feigned concern but planet Earth isn’t dying. In fact, no matter what man in his miniscule, self-proclaimed omnipotence does, Earth will survive just fine, and if history is any indication it will thrive even more than before.

Man is simply not that important or relevant to Earth. At one time T-Rex et al thought they were the omnipotent planetary bad-asses, but one asteroid and one global catastrophy later and T-Rex’s ass became the oil for the next wave of life on a thriving planet that T-Rex thought was dead.

Maybe killing us off is T-Rex’s ultimate revenge, but who gives crap. I want a good life while I’m here, little to no interferance from all the enviro-phuckheads and the crapstains in government out there, and que sera sera - there will be enough for me and after that the idiots can fend for themselves just like we had to when Earth was handed to us.

Ricardo, life gives you 2 choices: you either get married and have children (your own or adopt) and then you do start thinking what you shall live behind or you wither a single and often bitter man. Education and good humor means little if you have nothing to share with anyone and all you have is an on-line forum to yak to strangers.
Que sera sera

… need I say more?

Autonut, if you want to limit your life to only those two choices, that’s your issue, but you can’t transpose your limitations onto everyone else. Life offers me a lot more, I suppose, either that or I simply don’t limit myself as you do.

Either way, you can stay up at night worrying about the future of planet Earth, but I simply don’t give a **** and will take care of myself. Earth needs to be here for maximum 60 more years as far as I am concerned, and after that, you and I both won’t be here anymore, planet Earth will, all your worrying will be for nothing, I’ll have had a good time, a new generation of whiny worrywarts like you will be crying about every damned thing thinking their time is pivotable to the universe, and a new generation of Ricardo Heads will be enjoying all that life offers, which is a lot more than your two self-limited choices.

Our failing economy, and high oil prices have became somewhat of a perfect storm. Although, I don’t think they are a direct result of one another. One just aids the other. Our failing economy has been a long time coming. Mostly the result of this constant outsourcing of jobs so rich ****s can get the most bang for their buck. Companies put thereselves on the market, and shareholders expect some cash back, today rather than tomorrow. If that means having all your **** made in China, than I guess you better make it happen. So all of a sudden everything in America is imported, and what do we have to offer to the world? Not too ****ing much. So if everythings imported, and we have no industry, what is the result? Uber rich, and dirt ****ing poor.

Madcapp: exactly. I really don’t see the point in struggling against an increase in fuel efficiency. It’s only a matter of time before the MPG issue is addressed, and if this bill is shot down, a hundred more will be coming to replace it. Like I said, it’s only a matter of time…whether you f*ckers like it or not, change is coming, soon!

**** Deanster, that sucks. My 02 F150 5.4 liter was stickered at 16/19 and I average 21.5 with summer blend, about 20 with winter blend, in real life. I spend a fair amount of time on the freeway, but a good chunk of that is rush hour.

I know ****heads with “fuel-sipping” bimmers who barely get better mileage than I do.

Get ready for high electricity bills, people.

Hmmm, Deanster, I have a Wrangler also, and I have absolutely no problem getting at or above the posted EPA mileage, city or highway. UNLESS, are you ready for this, I am driving like an complete idiot. Maybe you should look at the way your drive before you blame Chrysler.

You and your fascist governments can have my Cadillac Escalade when you pry it’s steering wheel from my cold dead hands. F*ck all you global warmism cult members and kiss my gas guzzling ass. I’ll be sure to pour a few gallons on the ground for you when I’m filling up this weekend. I will drive what I want, when I want, you piece of Euro trash. Keep your laws out of my garage you p*ssies! Just because you’re no longer man enough to fight against your government doesn’t mean we are.

I wonder what the air planes and tanks and ships ran on during WWII when we saved y’alls asses from Hitler. I wonder if nuclear power helped us defeat the Japanese too. Oh, that’s right, how soon you all forget. Your grandfathers are ashamed of you all, you ungrateful euro pricks!!!!

HeadGiver: That’s great mileage for a full size pickup, I’m surprised. There isn’t really a “fuel sipping Bimmer” out there, other than perhaps a 328i with a stick. But I mean, you’re getting performance for the mpg’s you’re losing, which isn’t the case in other scenarios.

dmbpearl: My granfather isn’t ashamed of me for not driving Domestic gas guzzlers. He is Jewish and Austrian, and he escaped from Hitler as a boy. Shut your retarded ignorant ****ing mouth you jackass. Stop talking of which you know nothing of, ****ing dumb**** piece of ****.

Deanster: That’s unfortunate about the Wrangler. Unfortunately, it seems like many Jeep products fall short of their EPA. A friend of mine has a 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited, with the V6, not the optional V8. He gets 12 mpg in the city. 12. With the V6. I can only imagine what the V8 pulls. Incredible.

Headgiver: Just read your insane post on the future of the world. I suppose you can possibly pull of being that much of a selfish prick if you have no family left that could possibly be younger than you. Most of us, however, have younger cousins, siblings, and at some point, even children. Considering all of those things (not to mention being compassionate regarding humanity in general, but I won’t go into that as I’m aware that won’t sway you), many people, including yourself, SHOULD be worried about what happens to the earth after you die. If you have absolutely no family or friends who are younger than you, and who might be around after you die, then that gives your point a tad bit of leverage (not much, I may add). The likelihood, however, is that you do have people you care about who will be around once you pass, and in that case, you can’t get away with being that self-serving.

CAFE only scares some auto companies. For example Ford. Ford sells about 900,000 F series pickups that don’t have to comply with CAFE. That leaves about a million or so that have to get average 35 MPG by 2020…not so hard when you start selling diesels in Focus (C-max) and Fusion’s. 35 MPG for Toyota will be harder. Their total numbers are rising and they are trying to get in a big way into larger SUV’s and trucks. If you look at Toyotas last 10 year trend, their MPG is plummeting. I see alot of 10 speed tranny’s and diesels for everyone!

PATHETIC IT WONT HAPPEN

I’ve made my stance on this issue perfectly clear. I’m not going to repeat myself.

dmbpearl: global warming: I scraped my windshield this morning.
My uncle thinks august 6th and 9th should be holidays

captain: I’ll repeat myself
CAFE should be scrapped. Fuel economy is its own reward

I’m going to visit junkyards for my kids cars.

I don’t want them driving the tin-can cars we are going to get.

Get Real, find a nice old Cadillac tank.

So Lambo, you think I’m the only selfish prick on the planet? Wait’ll you get out of school and in the real world - this planet ain’t nothing but full of selfish pricks.

And again, I state that “I don’t care” about the planet after I’m dead because quite frankly I am certain it will be just fine. If worry about nothing gives your life meaning that is great for you, but pointing out that people like me are somehow unenlightened points to an element of almost “religious fanaticism” in your behavior. Fanatic jesus-freaks do it, fanatic muzzies do it, and fanatic enviro-whacks do it. SSDD - Same ****, Different Devotion, but hey, they got you hooked so ….

…. be sure to pass the plate down Lambo’s and Autonut’s pew!!!
…….. because … There’s gold in them there “gulls!”

Since whene did the congress of the United States find it in their constitutional authority to mandate fuel ecconomy standards and therefore severally intrude on consumer choice and capitalism as a whole?

AFAIK the Legislative branch has the ability to make laws governing the commerce of goods sold in the union.

Hey Ricardo, I agree with you: you are Not the only one selfish prick!

BMan, few weeks or months ago somebody, and I don’t recall poster name, had an excellent expose on common good from economics point of view.
Congress should not stiffen free economy, but there is a notion of common good and congress has the right to enforce it or to propose to the president. The law prohibiting screaming “fire” for ****s and giggles in crowded movie theater is a direct imposition on your right of free speech, but it is common good for the rest of society.

The largest car available will be a Toyota Camry when this law takes full effect.

Toyota slightly smaller then Camry (not by much) is getting 45-47 mpg with diesel engine, and you can hardly detect that it is not gasoline but diesel. It is not in 2020 it is today. Audi 6 with 4 cylinder diesel does 46 mpg and with V6 diesel it does about 40 combined cycle. What the big deal?

U.S.Constitution, Article 1, Section 8:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

Perhaps you should read the rest of it besides just the 2nd ammendment…

‘Deanster’, I am sympathetic.

Impulsive,
You shouldn’t oversimplify your opponents’ position with the statement, “‘I want to do what I want, when I want’ is all that matters.” The argument is about your zealous (and brainwashed) beliefs that you and your kind are about to impose on automakers. Because the oil market is changing, you want the automakers to adapt for you. Somehow, you have a skewed notion that automakers are responsible for your failure to adjust your spending habits. After all, it’s so much easier to pass the responsibility, especially to a faceless corporation. None of this would be an issue except millions of incompetent voters don’t want to shoulder the burden of their expenses. America will be a giant daycare when people like you are through.

I hope this ‘green’ thing is just a fad. But since Republicans are buying into it, I’m losing faith.

Thanks for the support guys. If my daily commute wasn’t under 3 miles back and forth I would be bleeding cash on this gas pig now. Thank god for small favors….

Deanster, man, I can understand driving 3 miles in winter weather, but if the weather’s okay I’d either hoof it, jog it, run it, or bike it. You can bike 3 miles in 15 minutes no sweat.

If you’re starting that thing up to roll 3 miles each time it’s no wonder your mileage is bad.

Autonut -

I am a are that cars with diesel engines can achieve great mileage figures, but WHERE ARE THE DIESELS? There is only one diesel passenger car in the US. It is made by Mercedes. VW couldn’t meet the stringent and stupid emissions regualtions here and had to delay the diesel into the 2009 model year. We were supposed to get one in 2008. Thank your demonratic (and replublican) creep moron vermin scum congressman for voting for the Clean Air Act many years back for this fiasco. Thank you congress, and most of all, thank you moron voter for putting this ****roach poop congress into power.

What a **** storm. My only thought, they’ll make these vehicles more fuel efficient, and we’ll just drive more. It’ll all equal out in the end. It’s win win for the government too. They seem like they give a ****, while they’re bringing in all this extra cash from the companies that can’t meet these standards. At the same time we’re driving our asses off in our new 35mpg car. In the end, nothing has really changed.

Swamprat, if the USA votes in anybody but Ron Paul in 2008, it’s just going to be the same old **** once again because except for Ron, all the other candidates are basically identical.

Hillary, Obama, Guiliani, and Huckabee are like Shell, Chevron, Exxon, or BP - after you fill up and are back on the road it really doesn’t matter what station you chose.

Ron Paul is the only “alternative energy” out there, politically.

Ricardohead -
Agreed.

R-Head: Ron paul is 72! We don’t need another old white guy. I’m voting for Romney, if he wins the nomination

R-Head: If you’re riding a bike 3 miles, you might want to shower at work.

im voting for huckabee cause he did a political ad with chuck norris

Bye bye RWD Impala, large luxury flagship sedan, etc. Nice knowing ya’ll. And hello to 30 different variations of the Aveo.

I hate these new standards. But this is just another one of those things the Democrats want to do to get us to become more like Europe and I don’t like it. There better still be a nice, large cars available to buy even after this **** goes into effect. I will never, under any circumstance, drive around in a small tiny econobox (or a small, tiny luxobox)

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Commodore: good analysis. The Solara will soon be considered a “sports car.”

On the political thing (maybe LLN should set up another forum like “electronista” and the others on the side except this one will be for politics

I still don’t understand the buzz surrounding Ron Paul. He is soo old, older than McCain, so I don’t see how he is the agent of change. The Republican vote is way too split right now with significant numbers of people supporting Ron Paul, Hucabee, Romley, Gulianni, and Thompson. I really hope that the Republican (and many Indepent) voters reunite once a nominee is chosen. After one of them is nominated, we must all support that candidate, even if our choice lost the nomination. Here is why:

We must prevent the Democrats from winning. Not because I am partisan (I am actually a registered Independent and support certain ideas from both parties), but because the current Democrat choices are scary to even think about.
Hillary is not new. We have been there with Clinton and we don’t need to go back. We don’t even have an idea of what she would REALLY do, because she is just telling people what she thinks we want to hear. Also, she is reverting to the “old Hillary” by attacking other candidates and that sort of manipulative thing. She is definately not honest, and her ideas are just BAD.
Obama is very young and inexpirienced. I don’t know if he would be capable to running the county. He is just like a “whatever” candidate. I don’t really care much about him, even though I agree with some of his ideas. I think Obama is like the Democrats’ Ron Paul. Lastly, most people who support him do so because he is [part] black or because they dislike Hillary. We should not be voting for someone just because they are the first mixed race person to run for prez or because we are hardcore Democrats and dislike another candidate.
Edwards. Need I say more? He is over the top, hypocritical, has bad policies, etc. plus I don’t believe he has any chance at the nomination anyway.

‘RH’ is one of the few here on the ball lately … Ron Paul is your only saviour and has the history to prove it, but I see the ignorance here regularly and if this site is a sample of the American public, you’re all doomed .. the rest of your candidates are no different from each other and will change nothing. And what does his age have anything to do with competence and ability … just shows how biased you fools are … “let’s vote the young buck in, I like his hair”. No wonder you are where you are.

‘Bryce’, you’re right, it is oversimplified but that is what has got you clowns where you are right now and, without change, will continue you on your path to suffering. If CAFE standards were increased from ‘90, as has been posted several times now, you wouldn’t have guys like ‘Deanster’ crying over his vehicles PATHETIC mileage, despite being a vehicle that many find an attractive mode of transportation. Instead, you morons respond with “let the market dictate” … ummmmm, riiiiiiiiiiight … so Chrysler will NOW respond to Deanster’s cries? Had new standards been in place by now, he may not be crying as bad or at all.

Your ignorance continues by believing that I will be hurt by this … living in Canada, I already pay more than you but I understand and can afford it, no matter how high it continues. I can’t say the same for your countrymen who will HAVE TO settle for a smaller engine .. I won’t. And it’s not all about gas prices, as I’ve stated countless times … it’s also about SMOG and having the GTA skies polluted by NOx … and I’ve never brought up global warming.

You seem to have a problem with PROGRESS and ADAPTATION. An increase in horsepower is wonderful but a ZERO relative increase in mileage is not. Most people don’t buy a vehicle to race, and having a 300 hp anything to commute is wrong when no corresponding increase in mileage is also present. The industry is lagging in this important factor, proving it has done nothing to significantly increase fuel efficiency in the last, nearly, two decades. But you somehow think now that gas prices have risen nearly three-fold in that time, carmakers will bring out their secret technology to help with high gas prices? PLEEEEEEEEASE. Governance is the only timely and helpful hand that will correct this situation sooner than later.

Honestly, that post couldn’t display ignorance any better.

Did LLN eat my post?

Yes it did.

“Government’s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it. ”

“Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them. ”

“I hope we once again have reminded people that man is not free unless government is limited. There’s a clear cause and effect here that is as neat and predictable as a law of physics: As government expands, liberty contracts.”

Commodore: A better idea would be to find the person we want, and get that person elected.

I say Wayne Allyn Root

Clinton: bitch.
Obama: Liberal
Edwards: breck Girl

Paul: Old
McCain: Old
Huckabee: naive.
Tancredo: Pigeonholed.
Rudy: Connected

Romney is the only major-party candidate I would vote for. And he will not win my state.

Screw the 22d amendment!

CA36: How about this “government can’t make your life berrer, only worse.”

better.

I’d never vote for an emxican. Those are dangerous people, y’know

First off, when I talk about Ron Paul being old, I don’t mean that just because of his age we should not vote for him. I meant that he has been around a long time, and he will be not much different than people of his generation. Let me explain it further: I just don’t think that a 73 year old is capable of doing anything revolutionary. Not when you are 73. People don’t change their ways at 73. I could be wrong, but that is my position. That he wouldn’t be much different than other candidates.

Second, the CAFE standards LIMIT your choices for what vehicles to buy. That RWD Impala I wanted to buy? I won’t be able to anymore because of CAFE. The government, in order to appeal to the green movement and all this bull****, is trying to regulate what we drive. They are literally trying to force us into driving a smaller car. I should be free to choose what I drive. If you want to drive a Yaris, that’s cool (well, not really) and I don’t care, but I shouldn’t have to drive one if I don’t want to. This is bull**** anyway because CAFE essentially limits the amount of oil we use on a per capita basis. Have you ever considered that more and more cars on the road every year? All this is doing is, at best, keeping us using the SAME amount of oil instead of more. Why don’t we get away from oil entirely. Instead of mandating a 4% increase in MPG every year, I would do something like this:
- Require all automakers to have a certain number of their cars be able to run on alternative fuels like ethanol or hydrogen. At least 4 such cars for every company by 2012, 8 by 2016, etc. until eventually all cars are available with alternative fuels.
- Require all oil companies to have a certain number of their stations to have alternative fuels available. For example, if ExxonMobil has 10,000 stations in the US, at least 10% (or 1,000) must have ethanol available at the station in addition to gasoline.
- Stations would also be required to have at least one station where an alternative fuel is available for every 10,000 living in the area (this applied to big cities mostly).

At least my idea (that’s not all of it by the way) gives us a way to increase the availability of alternative fuel and vehicles that run on it. That way, we can get away from using oil and clean up the air (pollution is the only thing I worry about, not for global warming).

Some day there will be a mexican president because mexicans will have strength in numbers. Unfortunately, they will elect a mexican just because he is one of them. And we will be screwed

If a republican is elected in 2008 we are screwed GTP….There will be ways around this law…this i promise you. Maybe a gas guzzler tax…but for decades car companies have found ways around the so called “law”.

mike huckabee and ron paul scare the **** out of me.

Anyone who’s afraid of Ron Paul is simply afraid that big government wont be there to be their nanny.

Commodore, Ron Paul is no “revolutionary” in some modern sense, but rather in an old fashioned sense that draws strength from his age: namely in a traditional, Constitutional sense.

That means the federal government quits meddling in your affairs, just as the Constitution intended it to be. That means the government won’t be directly or indirectly coercing you to drive something you dont want. That means you have your choice to do as YOU please and not as Hillary or Mitt or Barack or Huckabee or that hairy-pitted bulldyke in the Prius wants. Yes, personal choice, and not government-directed coercion. It’s how we were meant to live Constitutionally, and it’s an idea that appeals to a lot of younger, older, and ethnically mixed people. An idea whose time has come BACK - not a revolution, but a return of what we were guaranteed until the feds siezed ever more power in the past 100 years (to the point where it is sickening).

How anyone of you can object to a candidate who actually wants to let you choose how to live is beyond me. Every candidate but Ron Paul is there to tell you exactly what you should do in life; only Ron Paul wants you to decide your affairs. The only thing I can conclude about those who dislike or fear a man like Ron Paul is that you are too chicken**** to make a real decision on your own, and too chicken**** to allow others to do the same, because under Paul’s ideas you can band together with like-minded cowards and invoke a set of rules to live by as a group that you freely adopt, but under any other candidate your life is pre-determined and the majority of rules are imposed from above. You may not like the rules that are imposed, but by voting for control freaks you are buying into the system of being subjected to intense control. By voting for Paul you are voting not to buy into that system.

Freedom is not a revolutionary idea. If we don’t change direction soon, however, any return to freedom will require a revolution later. Your choice. I get railed on for allegedly not thinking about future generations because I have no kids, but you cowards are selling out the future generations for the convenience of appeasing your cowardice.

Ricardo, I agree with you wholeheartedly. However, you may realize sometime that great majority of people don’t want to think or act on their own behalf. If you don’t believe take a look at European Union. And if EU is not enough look south of the border and I mean really south towards Latin America. Cuba was not an accident it was a movement, ditto Soviet block.
Good doctor has great ideas, but he is failing to attract large audience like Dean did. Dean also did not accept corporate donation/bribes and his message was 180 degrees opposite what Ron Paul advocates but look at the following Dean had.
BTW, US had small government until JFK came to town, but both parties endorsed big spending sprees at the cost to taxpayers. I guess societies evolve and may not be in the optimum direction.

Autonut, actually I’m quite aware that the average person out there is to pathetic to think or act on its own behalf. What gets me is how willing these people are to submit and not chart a new, old course. Even when they bitch about the overbearing government, when given the chance to vote for a person like Ron Paul they run and hide under the heavy rocks of the Dems or the GOP. Of course they’ll whine when the opponent wins, but the difference between the parties and their platforms is effectively zip.

I never wanted to have kids, but quite frankly before I’d ever want to subject my progeny to the ****ty world into which these people are selling this country out, I’d rather go childless. Even my father openly admits that if he knew the country was going to go to cowardly **** as fast as it has, he would have not had kids to put up with it. He doesn’t say that because he has some problem with kids (or me) but rather as an admission of the disappointment his generation has been to the nation, and more so with my generation. You got it - since JFK - 50 years of national pussification.