haha, i think this means basically that people in Japan dont have money to blow on luxury cars….i wouldnt be surprised, their parking problem is worse than in LA

Toyota always used to sell luxury cars as Toyotas there (as has Nissan). I wonder if the current Lexuses are selling better or worse than the same cars when they were badged as Toyotas. Is it the brand/dealerships that’s causing the problems, or did the Windom, Aristo, Celsior, Altezza, Soarer, Harrier, and Prado just never sell that well?

It’s also complicated by the fact that Toyota has other luxury cars which were not designed for the Lexus brand (eg the Crown and Century), and those will continue to be sold as Toyotas. Are those cutting into Lexus sales?

Need more info!

Yeah, some of the other “luxury” cars that they already have as Toyotas are very nice, and I can see people not bothering to shop the Lexus badged cars. Many of the high end Toyotas and Nissans are very well made and are really nice already, so they don’t need to even look at the Lexus stuff. The JDM Honda Odyssey equivalent is unreal in all the offerings and styles, unlike here in the U.S. They allow buyers to add so many things from the dealership over in Japan, it is amazing.

The japanese prefer the European manufacturers over any thing else and its the same thing in Europe. Lexus is young, no history and very boring designs. The Bmers and Mercs are way to good for a level for Lexus to match let alone beat. The only way they could sell cars in europe and japan is by selling them cheaper then the europeans at the Saab and Volvo price range.

i dont think german competition is the problem, after all bmw posted record sales of 23,000 units? its not exactly on fire in a country with more than 127 million people. ive been to the toyota hq in tokyo and saw the entire line up (a few years before lexus debuted). seriously, there are so many options to the japanese its ridiculous, all kinds of cars from small to big. imagine our domestics where you can get everything there is in a cadillac in a chevy aveo. the term “luxury” over there is very weak compared to in the US. the same is true in europe, mercedes benz and audis are the work horses of germany. if standard taxi cabs are e-classes, it makes you look at benz on a different level…

gsh….

Have you ever been to Tokyo?
I haven’t seen so many Ferraris.. Porsches.. and MBs in one place.
Guess who owns the most expensive car ever bought at auction? A rich Japanese man who bought a Bugatti from the 1930s for upwards of 8 million dollars.

what does an 8 million $ bugatti have to do with lexus performing so far below expectations? nothing. Seriously Jimbo, try to stay on point, this is the second post today that I have had to call you on for posting something that does not tie back to the thread AT ALL.

yes jimbo, i have been to tokyo, have you ever been to LA? owning a ferrari doesnt make you a big guy here cuz there are literally hundreds of other people that have one too. so one guy out of 127 million buy a bugatti. well kudos to him, let me goto marina del rey in south LA and check out the yaughts that line the harbor

hey GSH you are a dumb piece of **** actually i was in tokyo this suymmer and trust me those japanese people have money. have you ever seen an aston martin DB9 and a bentley continental gt in a gas station at the same time??? well i did have you seen 2 M6’s the same color in trafic one behind the other???? i did. Have you seen 4 aston martins in the road within 3 minutes of each other??? o yeah and a lotus behind one of the aston martins. i did. i also saw more ferraris (6) than fords(2) in tokyo. also saw a lot more cars and guess hwo long i was there for. just 3 days and i spent most of the time doing tourism.

umm… congradulations al?

WTF is your point?

gsh
if you cant even spell yatch right im not so sure you can even get to marina del rey without getting lost.

reda the first post 1952

youre right al i misspelled yacht, looks like youre the moron too lol

and to my defense: The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) calls “yaugh” and “yaught”
obsolete forms of “yacht.” i have not been up to date..

Rexus.

That is all

See? Even the japs know that BMW’s are *much* better than their own home-made crap.

Oh, oh! I can play this retarded game too!

Where I live I saw (on Saturday) a gray Aston DB9 and then a few minutes later I saw a gray Aston Vanquish. Then I drove up to Palm Beach on and I saw 10 Bentleys, 2 Rolls-Royces, a Lotus Exige, a Ferrari 360 spyder, and an F430. Then I went to the mall (that same day) and outside of Saks was parked 2 black Bentley Continental GT’s.

And really who gives a ****? Are we all done then?

Jon.

1c3d0g,

‘Better’, how? If by better you mean more fun to drive, than yes BMW’s are better. If by better you mean build quality and reliability, then Lexus is better. Better is a really relative term.

Jon.

I wonder how this compares to sales of the same cars before when they were badged as Toyotas in Japan. For eg. LS was Toyota Celsior and GS was Toyota Aristo. Have they gone up or gone down? Anyone know? Actually does anyone know anything!!???

Greg, no one here knows anything. That much is obvious.

Jon: not to disappoint you, but I hear so many complaints about Lexus and its supposed “quality” that I seriously question what exactly they make them from. BMW’s on the other hand have been rock-solid. I live in a place where there’s a lot of dust, heat, wind and salt saturating the air. The Lexus’ just can’t take that kind of abuse, but the BMW’s weather it just fine. This is from personal experience, if you don’t want to believe Lexus is a piece of junk, fine. But I *know* I’ll never, ever buy one. Period.

So a friend of mine takes his 2003 530i (last gen) to get the car serviced at the BMW dealership and the service guy tells him “you are so lucky you bought your car before the change over, because all the new ones are in the shop all the time”. He then leaves the car for service (regular maintenance, he has never had a problem with the car) and comes back in a few hours to pick it up. The service manager is there and he asks him, quietly: “so, what do you think about the new 5-Series?” and the service manager answers “do you own or lease your car?” my friend answers that he owns it and the manager says “then, you should keep it” and my friend asks why they have all these problems if his car is rock-solid and he tells him that its all the added electronics.

BMW used to be better before they went uber-electronic on everything and what I have read was confirmed by my friend.

Jon.

Electronics is the problem. If it weren’t for electronics, cars would be perfect.

i agree with Jon. having to go to a dealer for a damn firmware update is a joke.

1c3d0g, I’m sorry but that’s complete BS, I live in a tropical country where the roads are also notorious for abusing the cars and I currently own 7 2004-06 Lexus and 2 units of the new 5 series + 3 of 3 series. The BMW’s has far more problem surviving than the Lexus. Unless you own a Lexus, which according to your post you most definitely don’t, don’t say ****. A one sided personal experience is only half of the story. Added to that a sample of 1 vs 1 is not enough to tell the whole story…

From what I understand the Harrier (RX) is selling quite well in Japan alongside the excellent Alphard. To quote the American country manager of Motorola when I delivered his unit, “I don’t know why they don’t sell this model in the US, it’d be a hit there.” and he’s a BMW nut… but he got 2 Alphards now. Anyway, what I really wonder is the Mark X. Is that a Lexus model now or still Toyota? The car kicks ass…

“Electronics is the problem. If it weren’t for electronics, cars would be perfect.”

I second that. BMW’s major problem has always been the electronics. But Mercedes lately has been having more electronic issues than BMW. Take away the extra crap and you get a nice cheap driver’s car.

the Mark X is i think still a Japan only car….i agree that car kicks ass, i was able to see it in japan and said to myself, if only this were in the US.

I remember back in the days of Mark II, it was an awesome car. I never got around asking Toyota why they didn’t import that model back. Maybe because the Corona or Crown was selling so well.

Speaking of high concentration of expensive cars in a single city, I think Irvine and Singapore are catching up to Tokyo. Or was it Irvine that has the highest concentration per mile?

Veda: I live in a tropical country too, and believe me I *know* about terrible roads. You ain’t seen nothing yet. We routinely rent different cars, so yeah, I have experience with more than one car. No, I don’t own one, but that doesn’t make my comment any less valid. Every time I drive one of those POS Lexus I’m reminded about their ****ty quality. No thanks.

The Japanese know a badge engineered Toyota when they see one…..

Slow sales will be easily made up by the ever increasing numbers here in the states.

And sadly Americans don’t know a badge engineered Chevy when they see one… (Cadillac).

Jon.

Neither do they know about Acura (Honda) or Infinity (NIssan), sadly.

GSH yeah they do have the money, Japan’s housing insurance rate or whatever it is doesn’t exist because they know the next quake will wipe the houses out so they have tons of money to put in their cars.

BTW Lexus sucks. Love live Nissan!