I like these cars because when I see the odd one on the road, I know everything I need to know about the driver. Self-absorbed, hypocritical, shallow piece of xxxx.

^or maybe your just upset that the person in the Lexus is driving a much better car than you. I could never afford a top of the line lexus but I don’t think badly about people driving better cars than me, that would just be pathetic. Jelousy is for the weak. But this car is selling so good because its so packed with technolody. Its hard to say which is more techno packed, the Lexus or the Benze S600. But an 8 speed tranny in the Lexus does sound very apealing.

yeah 14mpg, good job on this joke of a hybrid. only a xxxxing moron would buy a 14mpg hybrid for a hundred grand.

funny thing the benz gets better mileage.

Moto, if driving a fake car is better, then they can have it. That’s what this is, a fake car. Toyota’s audacity in embracing the “green” market while rolling a hypocrisy-on-wheels like this out of the factory is incredible.

I’ll take a 5-series, which has all the gadgets and power you could want, and is proud of it instead of hiding behind a hybrid facade.

These cars are as advanced as the early space-shuttles. Lexus is known for quality but if anyone thinks any of these will still be rolling down the road after ten years better have a team of scientists to keep theirs running.

Swerve, I have a feeling that is going to be the case with virtually all current hybrids from GM, Ford, Toyota, and Honda. The original systems seem so crude. I think the plug-ins, and GM’s newer hybrid system, will be more reliable. At least, until we figure out how to make hydrogen viable.

And yes the Benz Diesel gets better mileage, is known for longevity and will run fine on diesel in Mex, I tried.
And they dont need to go to NASA for reprogramming when they go Blue creen of death on your ass.

Fake car? lol Fake cars are those cardboard cutouts that cops use to scare drivers into slowing down. Never heard of a fake car that you can sit in and drive while listening to music on a sound system better than what most people have their house.
CTS 14mpg?? Did you get this info from the GM handbook of negative propaganda against the competetition? The big Lexus does 20mpg city and 22 highway. Just because you drive a caddy doesn’t mean you have to make everyone else feel your shame.

Of all the LS 600h’s on the road, what do you think the percentage is of those being piloted by owners that are actually paying for their own gas? These types of cars are generally leased by those below the CEO level (CEOs are usually driven thus keeping the rank and file aware of the pecking order), and every drop of fuel gets slapped on the ol’ company credit card.

So when CTS says ‘only a ****ing moron would buy a 14mpg hybrid for a hundred grand’ he’s quite right. But very few, I’ll bet, are actually bought because these guys aren’t morons or they wouldn’t be where they are.

This is a statement car: ‘look at me- I’m being green’.
And then when they receive their ‘compensation’ at the end of the year they go buy a f*cking Ferrari.

On Toyota’s defense, heck they sure know how to make money out of nothing. But spending 100K+ on any Benz, Bimmer, or even an Audi sedan is absurd. For that level you should be getting a Quattroporte.

Idiots….do some research.

1, it gets around 20/22MPG.

2, it’s not about green it’s about power

regular LS430 380HP
LS600H 438HP (combined).

These things are not my bowl of rice but at least I know to do a little research before making stupid posts like some of the GM drivers on here…funny part is I am one too and still not as stupid as the crowd I run with!

Find me a good piece of marketing that focuses more on the 600H’s gas engine than it does the “ZOMG HYBRID FTW LOL” drive.

Atleast GM drivers aren’t as insecure as the pathetic Ford loyalists who get upset at any negative comments about ford products. Those are the true losers of the road.

This is a statement car: ‘look at me- I’m being green’.
—–

Johnnycanuck gets it right. And that’s ALL the 600h is. For anything else, there is another car that does it better.

It is apparent that there is huge market for “green” luxury. If Benz would be listening (but being Krautz they prefer to dictate) they would quickly dropped 3.0 L diesel into S class attached to two stage hybrid tranny they co-developed while owning Chrysler. That would immediately create a vehicle in 120K range with 30-40 mpg potential and plenty of customers (outside of Saudi Arabia). For now it will Lexus aka Toyota eating this cake. Actually I think Audi is heading this way with Q7 but with gasoline engine (mistake in my view).

motor racer? shame? i read it on some other review, but edmonds has it at 20 as you said and it is still a joke of ****ing epic proportions, this car caters to idiots that just want a hybrid, i guarantee this pig of a car does nothing an is350 cant do, i really like the is350 you dumbass.
johnstew you are an idiot also, there are way nicer cars that are not just a propoganda machine, 20mpg, give me one of those dual mode tahoes that get better mileage and are actually usefull, and if not i will take the is and have a better car.
you sheep are blinded by your bias, dumb father ****ers.
and before anymore of you stupid morons start holding your panties and jump up and down……..why dont you do some researcc.stupid morons.

stop being so defensive and insecure, there are way better cars for the money, lame ass fanboys.

Like people have alluded, it’s both a statement car and a top-of-the-line, which will always have appeal to some buyers. If you have a 100 grand to drop on a car, this isn’t your only car, and you’re probably just as likely to buy a car looks and feature content. For my money, I’ll have the super sexy Quattroporte (although to Italians, it’s probably the lamest ass name ever, “Hey, Giovanni, wanna ride in my brand new ‘Four Door’?”

What I find very interesting is just how well Toyota’s handling this demand. This whole press release reeks of a marketing put-on.

Toyota says it expected to sell 2,000 cars *annually*, or 167 a month. Assuming that it decided to make all the pre-orders ahead of time, according to the article, that means Toyota sold 4,443 cars in the four months since release (July, August, September, October), for an average of over 1100 cars per month.

Can Toyota magically make 6 1/2 times more cars that it expected to make just like that? I don’t think so. I think Toyota has always know just how many greenies and how many VPs wanted it, but this story gives the lackluster car a needed boost.

“The Lexus managed 14.9 mpg”
“In the end, the Lexus strikes us as ideal for CEOs who’ve made their fortunes plundering the earth’s resources and want to appear to be making amends. It said little to us beyond “Forgive me; I’m not quite the guzzler I appear to be.”
from motor trend
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0712_high_end_luxury_sedan_comparison/judgement.html,

Celsior!

OK, is Benz, bimmer or Audi 8 types all that different then Lexus? BTW, most of those cars aren’t purchased, they leased (most often on company dime). Extra 10G for hybrid or hybrid plus extra gas to haul batteries don’t effect customers (what is $50/month on top of $800-900?). It is a political statement. My guess, the exec who is forced to drive Lincoln or Caddy will have excuse for Lexus - it is green.

lincoln and caddy cant compete with those cars in any way, the lexus in nice dont get me wrong, i just dont believe it is “green”

I really don’t think CADILLAC is aiming that high yet but have obviously made it clear they mean to. GM really wants to make it work. It’ll take time. they made the mistake of not keeping up with their real competitors. But I don’t see much backsliding from GM… aside from the usual foibles and those are coming less frequently as time goes on.

LINCOLN, on the other hand, really needs to step up their game and give what people, in that market, want. But with FORD being timid, it is hard to see what really is in store for LINCOLN.

But 14.9mpg from a Hybrid and the regular LS gets about 20mpg. That is just embarrassing. I knew Toyota’s Hybrid program was a bad science, but not this bad. Plus given the infrastructure to build a Hybrid, at least the one TOYOTA and anyone who uses their technology uses, Most Hybrids are not really that green. Until effective and economical battery production is available closer to the sell point, the Batteries will always be a serious problem for Hybrids and electrics.

It’s proof that people are idiots. These fools would make much more of an environmental “statement” by investing the cost of the 600h in solar panels for their homes instead. And actually do a positive thing for the environment in the process, instead of this car which has a net negative impact on the environment.

The only reason I would ever buy this car is if I lived in L.A. so I could ride in the HOV lane. That is worth something.

The additional space will be used for the development and manufacturing of stents and other vascular and endovascular (outside the heart) products, Bauer said. She said the expansion is necessary to relieve crowding at the Temecula operation. Additional employees aren’t expected to be necessary after the expansion, she said. It will mean new labs, offices and manufacturing space, Bauer said.

and emerging technoly developing and manufacturing labs lab office and manufacturing space. New is intended to accommodate overcrowding at

Improved the made improvements not any more dsetails about how

I hate how this article talks about “other luxury marques,” as if the subject of this piece is an actual luxury marque.

CA36GTP: “I need to know about the driver. Self-absorbed, hypocritical, shallow piece of ****.” You forgot “gullible.”

moto-racer13: “^or maybe your (sic) just upset that the person in the L—s is driving a much better car than you.”
But he’s not, he just thinks he is. That’s why he’s gullible, and apparently, so are you.
“I could never afford a top of the line (sic) l—s …” Yeah, you can, juts have to take one with a “T” on the front, instead of an “L.”
And, the 8-speed “tranny” is just a play to make you forget you’re (possessive form) just buying a Celsior. How many forward gears do you use when you drive automatic?

CTS: “only a f–king moron would buy a 14mpg hybrid for a hundred grand.” Yeah, but the market for Toyota’s faux-luxury division consists of morons. Not that much of a stretch.

CA36GTP: “I’ll take a 5-series, which …”
is a real luxury car, not a knockoff.

moto-racer13: “Did you get this info from the GM handbook of negative propaganda against the competetition (sic)?” Competition? More like ass-kicking victim.

Johnnycanuck: “these guys aren’t morons or they wouldn’t be where they are.” Maybe in Canada, but this is America, and morons can get any and everything, including the highest office in the land.

Veda: “But spending 100K+ on any Benz, Bimmer, or even an Audi sedan is absurd. For that level you should be getting a Quattroporte.”
I disagree slightly. I’d pay that for a 760Li.

CTS: “there are way better cars for the money.” ****, there are better cars for two-fifths the money.

Scarface03: good stuff on the name. Reminds me of something Eddie Murphy said.
“You can say ‘I gotta take a ****’ in French and it’ll still sound good.”

CTS: I hope you ain’t surprised that the FLT finished last.

Blakkar: I think GM should bring back the LaSalle brand and use that for hyperluxury cars.

Z06: good point. BUt you ain’t gettin’ in the HOV lane with this

The LS600hL didn’t quite turn out as I hope, I must admit. I was hoping body roll might be contained better, that the battery wouldn’t max out quite so easily through hard driving, that the mpg would be better. All in all though, it’s still an attractive vehicle, with an amazing interior, and it still gets better mileage than its competitors. It also still makes good power and if you don’t give a rats ass about driving it will serve you well. That’s not me though. I’ll take a Quattroporte.

jackjim: We’ve discussed Toyota to Lexus badging before, but do tell me, what Toyota is available in the United States of America that is a Lexus LS? You suggest that you can get a top of the line Lexus, you just have to settle for a Toyota instead. Tell me the model that Toyota sells here in the United States that is a Lexus LS460 only under badged as a Toyota.

Let’s see…

Yaris? No.
Corolla? No.
Camry? No.
Matrix? No.
Avalon? No.

Looks like if you want an LS you’ll have to go Lexus. And that’s why people do. Putting aside the hybrid’s faults, for those who are not interested in dynamic driving, the Lexus LS is a fantastic car. You couldn’t possibly disagree with that. It’s not my personal preference, it’s actually very low in my list, but this is where that objectivity we talked about before comes into play, you have to recognize why it might appeal to some people, and how it gets that job done VERY well.

No toyota instead.
But yeah, the “LS” is not a rebadge of a U.S. vehicles, only because it suspects that people will balk at paying that kind of scratch for a Toyota.
I still call BS on ‘em.

International rebadges can be just as bad as intranational rebadges, depends on how they are done. For the most part, GM does it right. The Holden Commodore is a sport sedan that sits between mid-level and upscale price points. So is the Pontiac G8. The Opel Vectra and Astra are respectable commuter cars. So are the Saturn Aura and Astra.

Toyota on the other hand takes Toyotas from Japan and tries to sell them as “luxury cars”. Just like Infiniti and Acura, Lexus exists solely to trick stupid Americans out of extra money for the same car.

On a US-market-only scale, on the other hand, Toyota does a little better. GM is getting better, but they have a lock on stupidly pointless rebadges in the US.

CA36: Also, I’d point out that Nissan’s “luxury” rebadges are 1) Really good cars. and 2) Very good-looking.

Not that I’ll ever buy one ….

JJT, Nissan at least makes a good effort with Infiniti. Out of the Japanese “luxury” brands, Infiniti comes the closest to being legit.

The problem is I would still never own an Infiniti. Why? Because it’s still a scam. I should be drooling over a NISSAN G37.

I drove one this last weekend at a ride and drive event and it was really a well engineered and nice car. Lots of equiptment to learn to use. The battery is very small and only really there to help accelerate, not save gas. I was enjoying the speed and not the green side of this car. I believe that their target market is people who 200k is probably the ceiling when it comes to car prices…if it even matters. When this car gets 5 years old, it will be a bargain at 40-50k.

Yup diesel is having a better mileage than hybrid….

Man… you guys have that American brand mentality it’s so ****in sad that you can’t appreciate a car for what it is. If you take away all those badges, you’ll probably appreciate the interior of a Lexus better than an Infiniti, Audi, or the peeling Bimmer. I’m no fan of Toyota and Lexus but they do make some very fine cars. The competitions mostly just create some nice looking exterior with more performance and handling while forgetting basic interior quality and reliability. It seems like if it has a high price tag and good looking, it’d be a true luxury.

Perhaps jackjim can explain his definition of true luxury, though I’m not sure how he can even begin given the fact that he never owned a benz or lexus.

Veda, I think you have that backwards. It is the manufacturers who have an issue with being honest about branding.

For example, look at Acura’s website and check out the history portion. There is one word that you will not see ONCE in that whole section: Honda. Hell, they even claim Acura created VTEC, SH-AWD, and other systems, which is ridiculous because Acura is not a true division. It is nothing but a name. Granted, intelligent buyers know they are one and the same. But this is fundamental dishonesty to squeeze a few grand out of the more ignorant car shoppers who think they are getting something special by buying Acura.

If they were all absorbed back into the Honda name, at least it wouldn’t be disingenuous.

While American manufacturers could use some brand trimming as well, at least brands in companies like GM are mostly separate divisions that can actually contribute something new to the whole, like Cadillac.

CA36GTP: You’re missing Veda’s point. Re-read his post and try and absorb it again, because you’re not getting it. Regardless of whether or not it has a Lexus or Toyota badge on it, the vehicle is still of supremely high quality, and in his example, the interior is as he accurate describes to be, higher in quality than all of the competitions. It’s IRRELEVENT if it is sold as a Toyota or Nissan in Japan, it’s not a scam, all it is is they are selling higher quality vehicles in Japan with lower quality badges, that doesn’t detract from the vehicle, the quality of the vehicle, or the driving experience the vehicle offers at ALL. You’re getting too caught up in thinking Toyota is sinning for badging an LS as a lexus. No **** they aren’t going to badge it as a Toyota, are you ****ing stupid? VW tried to badge an A8 as a VW, remember, it’s called the ****ing Phaeton, and it was a FLOP.

Also, who the **** are you to say GM does rebadges right for the most part? Here are your examples of good rebadges: GTO, G8, Aura, Astra, etc.

Here are the REST of GM’s rebadges:

-Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban/Yukon XL/Escalade/Escalade ESV
-Avalanche/Escalade EXT
-Trailblazer/Envoy/9-7X/Ranier/Ascender/Bravada(!)
-Cobalt Coupe/G5
-Uplander/Terazza/Montana SV6
-Solstice/Sky/Opel GT/Daewoo G2X
-Outlook/Acadia/Enclave (Yes, they have somewhat different sheetmetal, but they are the EXACT SAME VEHICLE cloned 3 times, and Chevy is about to get a verison, so that’ll be 4…**** that)
-Equinox/Torrent
-Colorado/Canyon/IS290/IS370
-Silverado/Sierra
-Express/Savana

Boy, you’re sure ****ing right CA36GTP, GM really DOES do rebadges the right way almost all of the time! Whoa. Wait a minute, that’s totally BULL****!

“CA36GTP: “I should be drooling over a NISSAN G37.”

Man, of late I’ve been damn-near drooling every time I see one of those Gs. But I won’t buy one.

Darth veda: “jackjim … never owned a benz or ‘l—s.’ Yeah, I actually did own the latter. It just said Toyota on the front.

CA36GTP: “If they were all absorbed back into the Honda name, at least it wouldn’t be disingenuous.”
That’s my point.

lamboz get a life: Stay on topic if you can, or contribute to the conversation at hand.

Hey Lambo, which part of INTERNATIONAL rebadges did you fail to understand?

And the Phaeton flopped because they took the brand name away. What does that say about the car?

CA36GTP: Taking international rebadges into account, do tell me what Japanese Toyota is rebadged as an LS460, LS460L, or LS600hL? Which Toyota model in Japan are the Lexus LS models in the United States? Answer this question.

Look Familiar?

http://japanesetradition.net/usedcar/celsior/3_1.jpg

jackjimturkey: that’s the PREVIOUS generation of the LS/Celsior, which the current model is no longer rebadged as, therefore your argument holds no water. And don’t get me started on badge engineering and your beloved GM.

RobCali: I don’t “Love” GM, I buy my cars from tyhem, because experience has taught me that they work.

I couldn’t fiund a photo of the current Celsior, because now I think they only sell it faux-luxury in japan.

How Gullible are you?

What an awesome car LEXUS. 7 series and S-class better watchout here come the LS 460/600.

Uh ….. no.