Know what would be cool? A RWD, V8 powered full size luxury sedan built by Lincoln to compete with the 7-Series and S-Class. Wow. That as a concept is something I haven’t considered in…well…I can’t remember the last time I considered the idea of an S-Class competitor from Lincoln. And I don’t mean a wallowing boat of a car. I mean a taut, modern, American luxury car that can take on the best from Europe. Sure, Cadillac is the obvious choice for this, and if it realistically comes from anywhere in the next 10 years, Cadillac will undoubtedly be the one to do it. But wouldn’t that be cool if it was from Lincoln? The most unsuspecting of prospects.

^ i second that notion lamboz, that would be cool to see lincoln pull that off.

Baby steps, I think their gonna stay in the Acura almost luxury section before they step their game up. Gotta concentrate on the volume players first. The MKS will do well in its market.

if lincoln will not move upmarket what is it’s current purpose. it should do it if only for it’s image

Duh, Lincoln won’t fill the void… Because there will be no void. It will be filled by Jaguar and Rover. Oy!

nah, they’ll probably make the hottest concept car, get the public and media attention and then say they won’t build it.

What void? There is Infinity, Lexus, Acura, BMW, Benz. All between 30-60K with ton of models.

Well, that leaves the possibility for a $59,900 7-series beater. Right? Maybe I’m just hoping for too much, but I can’t help but notice that they didn’t say they wouldn’t release a full-size luxury RWD sedan to compete with the best, they just said that it wouldn’t be over $60k. That’s fine by me. At this point they really can’t sell a competitor in the 7-series/S-class segment for more than $60k anyway.

ford does not have the cash to move lincoln upscale right now when they’re supposed bread and butter cars are sitting on the lot collecting dust. they need to invest more money in their core market of sedans, small cars, and pickup trucks. the Taurus is boring looking still the f150 looks old now and the fusion is due for a mid cycle re-fresh. Also mercury news to do somthing different or die i say import the euro fords charge a slight premium to slot them between ford (entry) and Lincoln (American luxury) mercury could them compete with Saturn and VW

Mercury was competing with Olds and Buick. Well we know what happen to Olds and Buick is much more popular in China then in homestead. Unless Mercury follows Buick it may compete with Olds.

Lincoln has not had a cool car since the Conti had suicide doors in the 60s.

It would be nice for FORD the develop a new Continental Flagship sedan and retire the gas powered wheelchair, the Town Car, for the reasonably handsome sum of $65,000.

But lets be honest, FORD needs to secure itself before really moving forward and with that recent bet against it’s own survival, FORD doesn’t have time or money to spend on going upscale for now.

I would love to see a new Continental Sedan and a “Lincoln Number” (Mark VIII was the last one) coupe both happily over $60K but that will have to wait for a while. Think A BMW 7 and 6 series but much less expensive at the upper range.

But one thing I’d like to hear is what is FORD really wanting to do in the future. Where do they want to go? What do they want to achieve? How do they intend to do it and why?

The last pretty coupe was VII in my book. VIII died due to poor sales and did not sire the successor.
The only place I see Town Cars are in car service companies (they like to call themselves Limos in NYC). Those things are driven (hold on to your seat belts) by real towel heads and I doubt that taxi industry can swallow steep price. Have to give town car a credit: it is a tough life for a car on streets of NYC. It has craters size of Baghdad’s and roads in 5 borrows are not that all different then in India or Egypt.

Blakkar, maybe things like this are our peek into Ford’s plans. I absolutely agree with keeping the target market where Lincoln’s market is. I think you need to infuse more pizazz into what’s there, but you don’t need to go chasing S-classes, 7-series, or the like. Ford couldn’t figure out how to sell an upscale Jaguar, how could they figure out how to sell an upscale Lincoln.

It would be the “Phaeton syndrome” all over again. Americans didn’t want a $70k Volkswagen, and I bet perceptions among U.S. consumers and Lincoln are similar. Even after a redesign, the Navigator has continually lost ground to the Escalade. Lincoln is there to out-luxury and out-class Fords, not the premium luxo brands.

$30,000 to $60,000 cars?? Lincoln can’t even do THAT right now!

First things first, they need to build the MKR and a true MKS.

Lincoln has lost its image of prestige and quality and very few are willing to spend big bucks on a dressed up Ford. The old lincolns of the 60’s were cool. Lincolns today are just lame and boring and doesn’t offer the quality and cutting edge technology found in so many entry level luxury cars today. Buying a Lincoln is a waste of money, and a waste of time.

What Lincoln needs to do is come out with the Cartier edition of the
Ford Taurus/500 and call it the Lincoln Aquarius 1000 Cartier Edition
and paint it metallic champagne beige with a Landau top and a make-up
kit in the armrest plus a Deoderizing Depends Disposal Depository.

Move it UPSCLAE??? HA HA WAHT IS THIS SOME KIND OF A JOKE ???

So Lincoln will be the slightly upscale Ford, which makes even less space for Mercury to exist. Bet those guys are happy to hear this!

I agree with posters above that Lincoln needs to focus on competing with the Tier 2 brands like Infiniti, Acura, and even Volvo before taking on the BMW, Lexus, M-B, Audi crowd. Focus on good smaller cars that people will want, get them on the street and build positive brand awareness like Infiniti did with the G35.

Lincoln has a looooooong way to go

Ok, so Ford is admitting they don’t have the resources to take the next step with Lincoln. So what? At least their sales are encouraging and they seem to be developing some semblance of brand identity these days. When you see one of those big grills coming at you or from behind you- you know which marque it is. And love it or hate it, at least you get people talking about it.

It should stay right where it is and not bother going upmarket. Who is going to pay $60k for a Lincoln? I’ll tell you this, whoever has that money isn’t going to be laying it down on a Lincoln they are going to be laying it down on a Mercedes or BMW. I don’t think the Cadillac XLR would exist if the plaftorm did not already underpin the corvette.

keep lincoln where it is and move volvo up then, problem solved.

CTS: Volvo is doing just fine for the Euro-style buyer. My new S80 has negative bling, which would not appeal to the typical Lincoln buyer. There is a place for both in the near luxury market.

…And they’re absolutely right not to dare try and produce something in the 60k-plus range. Remember, this is Ford we’re talking about. Try to be more than an afterthought in the sub-60k segment, and then go up against the big boys.

With little exception, there is fundamentally no reason Ford should even get Lincoln’s door open. I’m with Blakkar regarding the need for a Continental model; it can be under Ford versus Lincoln.

Ford does have experience in the plus 60,000 k segment, with the wonderful and beautiful Ford GT. They should at least attempt to move Lincoln up a little to try and give mercury a purpose

Autonutt,

My dad’s last car was a 1987 Lincoln Mark VII LSC. It was a great “muscle luxury car”.

Anyway, I agree that the VIII was, if not ugly, then odd looking. But they do seem to be reasonably solid even after all this time but I won’t lay odds on them.

Lincoln has been treated poorly by FORD. The LS was easily one of the best cars FORD ever put out. It was a re-skinned Jag s-type, but it was still great. It was the best thing they got from Jaguar, by far.

It was expensive to build and for some reason FORD did not see fit to upgrade and sell up with that car. It was easily worth $45-50K but they were trying to sell it for under $40K. Plus the engine should have made at least 300hp not 250hp. But they simply killed it. That was the car that really could have helped turned FORD around if they really pushed it….

But again, Truck and SUVs took precedent and even their best cars were made to suffer, to the detriment of all.

lambo, manhertm: I agree
FikeFX: You’ve got toyota in the wrong group

Blakkar :I liked the Mark VIII. The guy that owned the first paper I worked for had one. It was about the nicest car in town …it was a small town.

What happened to Lincoln? At least the cornhuskers woke up

It is not even necessary to move upscale even if it’s possible. Just so long as it tries not to embarrass itself with a flagship sedan that is a grandaddy/prom-limo car that dates back to the 70’s, it will do OK. A flagship with a big V6 like the MkS should be enough (just to defeat Acura and its RL), though I did like that MkR concept, which may potentially do more for the brand.

I don’t think that Lincoln should try to leap into full scale luxury status, but I also hate to see it remain in its current state. An advertisement I saw in the paper yesterday from a Ford/Mercury/Lincoln dealership really illustrates how far Lincoln’s status has deteriorated. The advertisement had the CD3 triplet sedans on sale for the same price. I had to look at it twice to make sure I didn’t misread the ad. I know it’s clearance time for the 2007 models and equipment levels might be different, but you would think that the MKZ would still command at least a minor premium over the Fusion/Milan.

On the other hand, the LLN article states that the MKZ and MKX are both enjoying strong sales although they look just like their Ford counterparts (Fusion and Edge) with fancier front/rear styling. If it’s working for them, maybe they should leave it alone.

I personally think it’s pathetic to need 3 divisions to sell the same vehicle in slightly altered forms, but personal opinions do not equate to sales.

The grill is out of place and throws off the look. Otherwise not a bad looking vehicle.

FAckFimFurkey: Where did I mention Toyota in my list? Are you trying to be silly by implying that Lexus cars are exactly rhe same as Toyotas? That argument is shortsighted and just plain uninformed. It’s up there with saying an Infiniti FX is just a fancy Murano, when they are built on completely different platforms. reminds of those Consumer Reports “guide to saving money” when they tell you to save money by getting a Camry in lieu of an ES350. Get my point?

Lincoln needs bigger line-up. Heck just copy BMW and come with with something against the 3, 5 series etc. MKZ is really an entry level luxury car. But don’t just slap a Lincoln badge on a Taurus and think you can fool people either. At least put in a bigger engine cuz if you have to ask about mpg, you shouldn’t buy a Lincoln (or the like brands for that matter).

Are they talking about higher quality or larger cars? Upscale surely refers to size, while upmarket would refer to quality. I suppose it should come as no surprise that American writers confuse the two.

Nope you’re thinking “upsize”.

In marketing, “Upscale” refers to a higher pay scale , “Upmarket” means the same thing.

The ES *is* a gussied up Toyota. The ES is an embarassment to call “luxury”.

I actually regularly confuse ES’s with Camry’s. They just look a little nicer.

Lincoln needs QUALITY materials in their cars.

Sit inside the recently deceased LS….feel all the hard craplastic interior surfaces.

Thanks to cheap switchgear, door panels and carpets only a Taxi Driver will respect a Lincoln.

MikecartmanFX: You may not know it, but you did metion toyota, which belongs in the top-luxury tier as much as estelle getty belongs in the NBA all-star game.

I’m inclined to call the FX/Murano twins, alhough most publications say they’re cousins. But, they’re both GOOD cars. They’re not, however, “built on completely different platforms.’

R-Head: confusing an “ES” with a camry is like meeting robert and thinking he’s bob.

Lincoln needs to up their quality and move into a new, modern design direction. They can’t be doing this 50’s thing forever.

Lincoln need not compete with BMW and Mercedes, they need to repsond to Cadillac as that’s who they are cross-shopped with. Town Car is fine vehicle that just needs an engine transplant. If they stuck a DOHC 5.4L Trition in the Town Car the complaints would lessen significantly. Believe it or not there are folks who like a “boat of a car” that doesn’t ride like **** ala a BMW 7

The Town car is build on the ancient Panther platform. This is a platform that debuted in 1978, or there abouts.

The Town Car needs to go…. ten years ago.

Lamborghini Z,

What 50s thing? If you mean aiming at 50+ year olds, I hardily agree.

Get Real,

When you own an LS and have time to actually live with it. You notice something. You don’t really notice the hard materials as hard cheap materials, but as differing surface qualities that give the car an ambiance that errs toward sportiness and not pure plush. Some guys really don’t go for padded everything. We do like tough to the touch surfaces now and then, even in our luxury cars.

I won’t go into the practical aspects of it right now though like cleanliness, material longevity, and cost management.

You may not care for it, but that is your loss. I don’t mind it and would not miss it one way or the other.