Didn’t want another GTO anyway, but how can you call something FWD an Impala?

SigmaHyperion: good points at 631p on the 20th

Blakkarr: good points about the V8s.

El Aleman: You’re right about the raping of the name’s heritage.

S-60: you mean fewer, dumbass.

frylock350: “Ever try to pull a boat with a Camry? Ever try to haul an ATV in the bed of a Colorado? Where do i put a 6ft fishing pole in a Malibu? How about tossing a freshly killed deer in the back of your cute Euro-hatch.”

Those things are Sins, and you should not be doing those things. If your lifestyle requires something bigger than a Prius, you need a new lifestyle.

The General should keep the Malibu as the volume car, and make the Impala something special.

Z06ified” “I still don’t get all these last-minute platform killings due to 2020 CAFE requirements. You don’t see Toyota or Honda killing any new product platforms for 2020 CAFE standards right now, do you?”

I don’t understand that either, but maybe they’re trying to get sympathy and say that’s how long it’ll take to develop new stuff.

So leave what’s in the product pipeline alone, and focus on 35 MPG for CAFE standards for the NEXT generation platforms.

I’m not a die hard fan of Volvo. Im just leasing one right now. Well, only 5 more months left of my 2006. I love cars too much. I get bored easily. Im on my 8th car in 10 years. Always new and leased.

I just simply hate GM cuz they produce nasty, nasty looking cars and trucks, with an exception of the new Mabliu (its a start). Also, Toyota too. Just pure plain nasty vanilla and always all tan inside. They are producing too many cars, just to beat GM and forgetting about the quality!!
I’m open to all other car companies. I respect those brands. Just not lame GM and Toyota!

I’ve counted as many good Volvo’s in the junkyard as Caddies….they both suck.

If GM opts for a 4.5L V8 Diesel with 310hp/500ft-lbs I’ll snap that up in a hurry. Performance shouldn’t suffer vs the 5.3L V8 and should actually be better. Plus the ability to burn biodiesel would be awesome. I hope GM can address the NVH issues that diesels in general have though. Their pushrod V8s are amazingly quiet for what they are. While I hate the sound of a diesel I can certainly appreciate a motor that has only 5 less hp than my 5.3L with ~150 more ft-lbs.

Oh and cooking oil? Now that’s a short sighted solution. Cheap out on fuel and risk damage to the engine, which is quite pricey.

I think just removing the V8s as standard equipment on cars would be good. Often people buy upper trim packages for the goodies, not the V8. Just like how Malibu is offered in LTZ trim with an ecotec. You’ll see less buyers go for the more powerful engine. Pontiac G8 is a great place to still provide a V8 to customers who want it but keep it out of the hands of those who don’t really care. It won’t be a volume car and will be sought only by those who want it for what it is. I’m all for reducing the number of inefficient motors out there for those who just have them because that’s what the car came with, but I don’t want to take them from those who specifically targeted them.

I live in Chicago now, but I used to live in Upper Michigan which is a very snowy region. Imagine a 7 inch snow that isn’t plowed for 2 weeks. Salt is never laid, just sand. A 4×4 pickup is simply the best way to navigate that. AWD is not an adequate replacement for a 4×4 with ground clearance. Would you rather hit a deer in a Silverado or an Audi TT? How about a Camry or a Suburban? If you live in such regions you will invariably hit some of these critters and no amount of skilled driving can prevent it. I’ve hit deer in my old Silverado and the damage wasn’t crippling to the vehicle and the deer was in no danger of coming up my hood and impacting the windshield. Being able to drive away from that is HUGE as we are talking miles of 2-lane road with nobody else on it. Spotty cellular service at best with massive deadzones of no service. Police presense is sparse. Hitting a deer @60mph will total most modern cars and due to all that lovely aero design with sloping hoods and such, that deer is coming right for the winshield. Top all that off with icy road conditions in the winter. A pickup truck is simply the safest and most intelligent way to deal with all of that.

Then there’s the fact that not everybody has this nice chic urban lifestyle. Ever try to drive on a 2-rut road in an Audi anything? Ever try to pull a boat with a Camry? Ever try to haul an ATV in the bed of a Colorado? Where do i put a 6ft fishing pole in a Malibu? How about tossing a freshly killed deer in the back of your cute Euro-hatch. These are all things full-size pickups excel at doing. This is a way of life for a large portion of the American population. In case you were thinking of suggesting that a V6 pickup would suffice, try passing a tractor-trailor on a 2-lane while pulling a boat. The instant torque of a pushrod V8 is very useful here. With the truck + trailer you are talking about moving around 10,000lbs around an 18 wheeler in a matter of seconds. A V6 will not suffice for that.

The only saving grace could be the 4.5L Diesel. The thought of 500ft-lbs (that’s more than an LS7 makes kids!) gets me all giddy inside. With 310hp and all that torque a 4.5L Silverado should be good for 0-60 in ~7.5s I figure. The 2500 Ram Mega Cab with the Cummins I drove was crazy fast for its size. It still doesn’t have the sound of a V8, but at least I wouldn’t be sacrificing performance or reliability. I just hope it doesn’t lose passing power (a hard pull from 50-80) over the gasoline V8s. I could always keep a V8 sports car in the garage for occasional cruising.

My point: look elsewhere and see why others have to settle for a $2500 car to have a decent transportation for their family. V8′s are unnecessary and being unnecessary they are nothing more than luxuries.

Or what?

Apart from the fact that a change from front to rear wheel drive alone changes the fuel economy only by a negligible amount, why not build a rear wheel drive car at least for now and rely on your R & D department to come up with something worth wile in the next 12 years, in other words 2 car generations away.

And plus: The Impala is such a f***ing legend, few car names have such a buzz to it. Everybody loves the models from the sixties, and they are still famous today.

It is a crime that GM has turned it into a bad japanese ripoff and soiled its name in that way, as with dozens of other models.

No matter what, the Impala simply has to be a sexy rear wheel drive V8 power sedan again, anything else would be criminal.

1) Why would GM cancel development of a Zeta based GTO, but still consider bringing over a rebadged Holden Ute to the U.S. (I’m assuming it’s still being considered since I haven’t seen any info to the contrary)? It seems to me like the Ute would only basically appeal to enthusiasts and do nothing to define Pontiac’s image, where a GTO coupe (and convertible) would attract a larger audience and assist in defining Pontiac’s affordable performance “car” brand image.
2) Like Blakkar stated above, why isn’t GM being more aggressive in developing/utilizing alternative powertrains to use in these vehicles? Ford seems to be really aggressive about developing/promoting their EcoBoost technology. Why can’t GM do the same thing? I think people will warm up to diesels and alternative powertrain setups as they become more common and proven in the U.S. market. As Blakkar said, V8 engines could still be offered in limited edition, upper trim levels.
3) I also agree with johnnycanuck; how much heavier is a rear wheel drive layout and how much does that affect fuel economy? I can see utilizing front wheel drive layouts for your mainstream, mass market brands and products (most Chevrolet and Saturn products, excluding Sky, Camaro, Corvette, and truck based products). I thought Pontiac was going to be positioned as an affordable performance niche “car” division. I think it needs rear wheel drive performance sedans, coupes, and convertibles (and maybe hatchbacks and wagons) to give it a focused, well defined image and purpose in GM’s brand hierarchy. Chevy and Saturn are the brands where smaller, front wheel drive, energy efficient vehicles need to be offered and aggressively promoted.

It seems like GM is freaking out a little too much about the upcoming CAFE standards. Instead of freaking out, they need to look into ways of making their products work within these upcoming requirements while maintaining each brand’s integrity and image. I believe they have the knowledge and talent to make it work. I don’t believe limiting rear wheel drive products is the answer; there is room for both front and rear wheel drive products in GM’s lineups if they properly execute their plans.

Like I said, build the V8s but only to the numbers that reflect actual demand. Not every last GTO or Impala sold would absolutely have to have a big V8. Face it some little old ladies and “casual cruisers” would like to drive the car but could live without the V8.

Of course, “purists” will want the big eight, but not everyone. I am not advocating ditching V8s altogether. Just be more realistic about it.

The Impala SS would have a V8 and would be to only way to get one (except the anticipated police version).

A Pontiac G8 GTO would also be practically required to have a V8, while the normal G8 (coupe I’m guessing) would be available with the V6 as the top engine.

We get our Zeta’s and GM can still find ways of meeting CAFE without ditching the V8. I might be of a mind that would not look well on a Turbo-Four Impala or G8. Then again, I’m not a diehard muscle car fan. I’m a performance and sports car fan. I, frankly, don’t care where the power comes from as long as I have plenty of it.

Tuners regularly exact huge output numbers from small engines. Knowing this I am not that put off by four cylinder engines in larger cars as long as they perform as desired by the customer. Besides with that smaller engine you’ll hardly notice the loss or any power. The car will weigh 200-400 pounds less easily. You would actually get being performance, starting, going, turning, and stopping.

This does not mean I want to forget about V8s.

A while ago, LLN posted that article on Cam-less engine technology. I am all for it for a number of reasons. Not the least of which is that we could have V8s, V10s,and even V12s that can return not only serious performance, but also small engine F/econ. Not having to work valves not being used, leaving idle cylinders open to avoid needless, power-robbing, compression strokes, being lighter weigh as well, having multiple valve timing settings for different engine uses and conditions, are major selling points for me on this and a ray of hope for the V8 and American motoring tradition.

I just don’t want the other Zetas hung up without a fight.

CAFE aside, one has to believe this is simply more about dollars and the cost to undo over 2 decades of FWD dominance in GM’s fleet. Or most anybody’s fleet for that matter. Still, I’m probably not the only one who would love to see the reemergence of inexpensive small and midsize RWD cars from GM, but wouldn’t it have been cool to have seen what they could have done with the likes of the Vega or Monza had they taken 3 decades to refine it.

We all want muscle cars the way we recall them, but that ship has sailed in a storm of new fuel concerns and economic realities. I’ll miss big V8 power, but not much if a real usable alternative is fielded.

Stop getting cold feet and let’s have one last party worth going to!