April25
Mazda intends to stick with rotary power for a new generation of automobiles starting in 2010, according to the U.K.’s Autocar magazine.
The company is said to be developing a second-generation Renesis engine that will be both more powerful and more efficient than the existing offering.
Mazda is also said to be developing a hydrogen rotary engine that will match a 3.0-liter gasoline powerplant in power, while offering a range of 250 miles.
I wonder if it will consume just as much motor oil.
Mazda’s RX series is probably the only original Asian design EVER. The first one was good, every one after gets better. A hydrogen rotary,………hell yes, seriously cool.
If nothing else, you’ve got to hand it to Mazda for sticking with it.
TURBO IT YOU ASSHOLES… JESUS, HOW MANY ROTARY TATTOOS DO YOU NEED TO SEE ON AMERICAN MOTOR HEADS BEFORE YOU GET IT
Awesome! Another engine that goes through a quart of oil every 1,000 miles and gets about 12-14 miles per gallon. My friend drives an RX-8 and loves it, it just chews oil and gas like it’s no one’s business.
Sticking with something for the sake of tradition isn’t enough. What’s the point?
If you guys can’t grasp the fact that the RX-8 uses oil BY DESIGN (so that you don’t have to premix it in with the fuel) then you should please stop talking.
As for PrimeGTPs comment.. what is the point of Pontiac.. at all?
info about the OMP::
The Oil Metering Pump (OMP) is constantly injecting oil into the combustion chamber to keep the apex seals lubricated, as well as allowing them to glide on the walls of the rotor housing. Because of this, it’s normal to burn oil during regular usage.
Pontiac is more of a car than any ****ty little japtrap Mazda. And Most people with at least half a brain would agree. From this piddly RX-7 to the girliemobile Miatas to the rest of the ricer **** that Mazda dumps onto their showrooms, they are still and will always be nowhere near as popular as Pontiac.
Where’s the G8? Where’s the new RWD G6? Where’s ANY new RWD Mazda sedan? That’s right, they don’t have one. Their still trying to figure out why all their Miata’s are driven by chicks and gays while Pontiac has a knockout homerun with the Solstice.
Leave your anti-GM bias on the playground little boy.
so it burns oil and gas like a hummer, still a nice car.
Too bad GM’s “moneyshot” isn’t as big as Toyota’s these days, I’m sure 1487 GM Sales is going to be disappointed these days…Maybe he can have a 3-way with Ford in there to make up the difference…:)
gbb
What exactly do you mean by “the only original Asian design EVER…”. I hope you aren’t talking about the Rotary engine because that was designed by a German—not an Asian. Felix Wankel.
And dont even get me started on GM-sales! Pontiac is on the right track but lets call a spade a spade they are FAR from where Mazda is today
Come to think of it, not that it’s anything bad, but Japanese automakers aren’t the innovators, they simply take others’ ideas and make them better.
i dont mind the rotary, i dont mind the fact that it floods in the winter because of bad spark plug design, i dont mind that it consumes oil more the opec, i dont even mind that it has only 10% more torque than an ms mx-5, i do however mind all that engineering that went into how the mechanics will have to work on it. exactly NO CONSIDERATION for mazda mechanics. i used to cringe everytime a 8 would come into the shop. and for 7’s -God the vacuum line book alone was 13 pages long. why do they flood so much because they dont develop high enough compression until 1200 rpm which makes it harder for the fuel to light off during the winter. plus they have 2 types of plugs (that you have to change if the motor floods behind the driverside wheel) and for the life of you dont switch them or you’ll break a apex seal………………. oil changes alone would make a grown man cry—– you have to be a tiny asian just to keep from burning yourself between the HARD copper water lines that surround the oil filter (on top of the motor) gotta make sure you clean the hell out of that or else the smoke that develops 5 miles down the road will cause the driver to call his lawyer!
mazda thank you for zoom zoom and being innovative but why not just build a conventional engine apply some zoom zoom to that and make us all happy
^Really? How? Mazda has nothing on Pontiac, don’t claim otherwise, you sound just as stupid.
Do you happen to drive a Mazda? Don’t cry, it’ll be all better once you trade up to a Pontiac.
Homeboy234 isn’t 100% right, but he’s MUCH closer than 1487_gm_sales.
1487_gm_sales is just another brainwashed gm loser.
mazda is my favorite asian car company, their cars look great, and are pretty darn fun to drive, me and the girl have been shopping for a little black rx8 for her, her old rx7 was pretty darn fun to drive also.
made the last payment on the 525i now its time to get her into a sporty small car too, and this is about the best little car for her run around town in.
Let’s hope this new rotary engine actually works longer than 5000 miles unlike the last one. (Hey, I “want” it to work!)
I’ve yet to ever drive a rotary, but all I ever hear are headaches about them. I understand that they rev nice and high but until they are making efficient MPG #’s, it doesn’t make much sense to me. I love the fact that mazda is being different and taking chances, but I think they could have sold a lot more RX-8’s if it had the MS3 motor in it. MAZDA, please make a RWD coupe with the MS3 motor.
CARnut…… the car not the motor itself. Yea, “Wankle” doesn’t sound very Japanese does it? Anyway, Wankles have some quirks that just come with the territory…..if someone buys one without investigating what they are getting into, its their own fault.
The RX series is, however, eaceptionally fun to drive.
gbb
Okay I just assumed that you were talking about the engine seeing is how unique it is. I’m still confused by your comment though about being the only original Asian design. Aren’t all (or at least 90% of) Asian built cars original Asian designs?
CARnut, in my opinion, most Asian designs are copy cat stuff. Maybe I am wrong, but that is how they look to me, not very original style wise. All the things so many Asian cars are touted to be just isnt enough for me to be interested to buy one. Asian cars at the level I am interested in appear to be wanabee German cars. They are about as expensive as the genuine article, so what is the point?
gbb
I’ll buy that.
Ok let me straighten some things out.. First the rotary engine was invented by the Germans, Mazda put a patent on it 30 years ago, so they’re the only ones that work with them. Imagine if everyone gave the rotary engine a shot? They could be way more advanced than they are now. To me that pisses me off cause piston engines are an old and proven technology while rotaries are still new and most people that puchase RXs have no clue how to drive them or maintain them properly, and there isnt enough mechanics out there with enough rotary knowledge.
Now, I LLOOVED the RX-7, still do, but right now I’m in the market for an RX-8.. I mean why not it has a very comfortable interior, has 4 doors, cheap insurance, and 9k rpms to play with. For all you guys saying that Japanese cars are bland and have no soul well i could understand that but this car has soul written all over it.
Now the only thing that pisses me off about Mazda is they wont give us a 2 rotor turbo.. or a 3 rotor. But a turbo could only help the rotaries they give some nice torque down low and save gas so I dont understand why they dont turbo the Renesis.
I dream about 3-4 rotor engines. 3-4 rotors put down some serious, serious power.
MAZDA GIVE US A 3 ROTOR!!!
American car companies are doing some copy cat stuff to the Japanese now, look at the Chevy Aveo and Ford Fusion they both have altezza tail lights, thats some ricer BS if you ask me, thats the one thing that I hate about the Fusion otherwise it would be a nice car
OMG LEFTLANENEWS is finally putting dates on their articles!!! WOO!!!
RSPINAJR.. you are wrong sir, Ford only owns 33-34% of Mazda. So they dont practically run it or anything they just work with each other, share engines and ideas. Its funny cause Mazda sure knows how to make a car while Ford on the other hand…
yes they do need the turbo
Great news all around.
I have an ‘04 RX-8 and have loved it since buying it new. Gas mileage has been in the high teens (occasional dips into the low 20’s), has been BULLETPROOF for 50,000 miles, and has only eaten about a quart or so every 3,000 miles. Not deal-breaking stuff by any means, considering how much fun it is to drive and how great it looks compared to almost anything else on the road.
Can’t wait to replace it with an even more powerful vehicle, though I agree…it’s time for 3 or 4 rotor Mazdas!
Ford doesn’t run Mazda operations, but they do have final say in what is released in North America. So why Ford can choose good cars at Mazda but not at their namesake division is beyond me.
Egbert Souse - that is what is called a CONTROLLING SHARE - without Ford there is no Mazda. Perhaps Mazda’s best chassis is the Mazda3 which is a Euro Focus, CX-9 is an Edge/MKX Mazda6 is a Fusion/Milan/MKZ, CX-7 is a variant of the 6, the Tribute is an Escape/Marnier, Mazda5 is a Euro Ford Chassis as well (can’t think of the name). I’ll give them the Mx-5 and Rx-8 but who do you think paid for those?
I have to agree with PrimeGTP abut the product choices -
Really seems as though they have been choosing the better product for Mazda than they are the Ford brand
Mazda takes the Ford platforms and makes better cars out of them, and for some reason Ford just says “Yea, okay, put that on the lot next to our ****boxes.” instead of “Wow, let’s try to learn from what one of our own companies is doing and apply it to our other brands.”
Things like this makes me truly believe that someone or several someones inside Ford are deliberately trying to sink the company, perhaps so they can get a buyout offer and then skip off.
I have to say I didn’t enjoy the RX-8 too much. It wails at speed but it has no torque, its no fun getting beat off the line by 4bangers, and its no fun coming out of corners behind POS FWD vehicles. I gotta say, the rotary is fine as a design ideal, and if it were advanced it would make for a decent alternative fuel design since its made to inject oil from the get go. But, if you want the decent mazda styling with actual power, I’d say go Rx-8 RWD with a mazdaspeed engine set-up. Power and looks. I gotta say tho. This focus on a gimmick like rotary is kinda sad since mazda simply doesnt have the resources to put into it like there would be if it were shared.
Why make the mazdaspeed 3 FWD? it would be an infinitely superior car to the RX-8
homeboy234,
I dunno man. “The 2008 Corvette will deliver 430 horsepower and get 30mpg”. That about blows everything else in the price range (and higher) out of the water.
The rotary engine is something novel to talk about in car ads and magazine articles. For everything else, a traditional V6 or V8 is far superior.
If they made MS3 RWD, Mazda would have to accept the embarassment of selling a flagship car alongside a compact 4-banger that smokes it.
^ Mazda will never build a RWD sedan. They limited by what platforms are going to be shared with Fords (Also no RWD sedans except the archaic Panthers).
BTW, Mazdas flagship is an SUV, their cars are merely econoboxes and chick sportscars.
At one point GM was looking at using a Rotary engine for the Corvette back in the 1970s or earlier. The engine would have made over 350 hp and be the size of sub-3L engine. But Gm couldn’t make it work to their satisfaction at the time and so the idea was scrapped. This was also one of the first times GM considered and even prototyped an MR Corvette.
Mazda is so far the only maker of Rotary engines in a production car. If this other makers like GM or FORD, who owns a sizable portion of Mazda, put forth the effort and research that Mazda is and bringing it to the streets, Rotary engines might be much more durable, efficient, burn way less oil (and fuel), and make for some really interesting cars.
A Mustang powered by a rotary engine would weight well less than even a V6 ‘Stang and still make over 400Hp. The C6 Corvette (as a hypothetical) would come in at well under 2700lbs and still make over 500hp.
F/econ and Oil consumption would be an issue but not for long as this tiny but powerful engine became more mainstream and less niche as is the case with the RX-8.
Performance: Rotary engines easily rev very high and fast and long. They are natural racing engines. That are simple and light weight making them easy the fix and maintain. They are easily modular. The RX-8 uses only two rotors. The Corvette prototype in the 1970s used three rotors. Mazda regularly races, at least in Japan, tri and quad rotor engines.
I’m sorry but RX-8s are fast, a lot of people out there think they know stick but the truth is they dont know anything about it. If you know how to use a stick the RX-8 is fast. Yeah its only 6 seconds to 60mph, isnt the quickest, but its plenty for passing other cars which is just about all we do here in America. Anyway I could give 2 ****s about driving in a straight line, if I cared about that than I would buy a torque monster like a GTO or a Mustang or something foolish and impractical.
Quick maybe…surely not fast.
Homeboy234,
Get back in you cage, monkey! Making more noise than you’re worth. If you actually read a thing before responding you wouldn’t look like such a feckless little ****. Bad monkey! no banana for you!
Truthfully I love all sports cars. But I know who is in whose weight class. The RX-8 is not even close the Corvette’s class. The 350Z, Porsche Cayman (not withstanding price), and a few others are more it’s speed.
But then I am not talking to you anymore. This is for anyone who is reading.
Well its good enough to put a smile on my face. To each his own… Some guys like torque, some guys like high revving not so torquey engines. Like blakkarr said rotaries are natural racing engines, they only have 3 moving parts and they rev very high allowing you take turns at ridiculous speeds..
Actually the RX8 without the sunroof is lighter than a corvette, and I have seen in person of guys out there that are putting aluminum LS1 motors into RX8’s and they are lighter than the C6. Also they smoked a C6 Z06 by about 10 car lengths 8).. But if by weight you mean power than disregard my post lol
Well your buddy didnt know what he was getting into. If you plan on owning an RX8 expect to add I believe a quart of oil every 1500 miles, some people do it every 3k. But I dunno if you’re a true car lover than checking your oil every 2-3 flll ups shouldnt be a problem. I know I’ll check it with pleasure
I don’t know about bashing or overly praising Mazda and their rotaries, but I have four criticisms:
1) where is the new RX-7?
2) why don’t we have a turbocharged 13B Renesis?
3) performance comparable to a 3.0L V6 engine? What KIND of 3.0L v6? Performance like a Ford Duratec 3.0L V6 or performance more like a Nissan VQ30 engine? More specific information please, Mazda…
4) Is there some reason we are not seeing a new 3-rotor engine, since Mazda is reluctant to add turbochargers on a Renesis?
I’m glad they are working on any way to keep the rotary engine alive, but it does need more power and more torque in the form of turbocharging.
Sounds like cool/good news to me, improving efficiency is key in this day and age, and some added power wouldn’t hurt, the RX-8 was never a power beast but that wasn’t it’s point, but being more efficient certainly wouldn’t have hurt it. I’ve always liked Mazda, and they’re doing well these days which is good to see
I had a 1990 FC3S Rx7 Convertible for a few years, and it was a very fun car. Sure, not the fastest o-60, or 1/4 mile. However, rev the 6 port N/A 13b from 3500-7500rpm and it just wailed. Once those two aux ports opened, the thing really took off. On the hwy you could go from a leasurly 55mph and rip it to 85mph in the blink of an eye. 4 wheel independent suspension with a nearly perfect 50/50 balance made it handle with precision. And it was sleek and sexy. Sure, it used oil, sure it sucked gas worse than a 5.0 Mustang, but damn it was fun. Any true RotorHead knows what they are getting into with Rotary Engines. If you’re dumb enough to buy one, and not feed it oil, you deserve to suffer with a blown motor. A local Rotary Shop in Oregon modded a green little REPU truck with a 20b tri-rotor engine! Wild. Over 450hp in a little truck that couldn’t weigh more than 2100lbs. It was a nasty little beast. Another local tuning firm has a nice little site - http://www.corksport.com
Best engine Mazda has ever brought out with! in my opinion
Bring back the Miller Cycle engine! (j/k)
Mazda is the ONLY Asian manufacturer EVER to win the 24 hours of LeMans. Even Toyota’s millions invested in the Toyota GT One didn’t get them a win before they shifted to Formula One. That distinction says something about the potential of the rotary engine. Pity it is taking such a long time for Mazda to turbocharge the Renesis and elevate its performance more.
IMO the Wankel/Rotary is a nice design but fails in normal public usage. Basically the engine consumes more than double the cost of gasoline as a normal car (gas and the very concentrated form of gas -oil). Over time it adds up and for the relatively small performance gain that can be had in a normal combustion engined car
its not worth it.
After the bottom fell out on Japanese sports cars, there was a serious refocusing to building cars with incredible potential and not incredible off the lot. Cars like the WRX and EVO are actually anomalous in this thinking, loaded from “go”. It’s the same thinking behind a real American Muscle car: a starting point that can go from cool to insane with a few mods.
It is a bit strange that Toyota, Nissan and Mazda all had $40K+ sports cars (okay the RX-7 came in at about $39k) and dropped them within about two years. This is blamed on poor sales due to high prices. In Japan they still sold well, indeed the RX-7 was still a hot seller in Japan even as the RX-8 was making the rounds in the US and Europe.
While Nissan is slowly but dramatically debuting hot 350Zs, Mazda has been slow to do the same. This may be due to FORD’s influence or a feeling on Mazda’s part that superfied RX-8s are not needed.
But for the foreseeable future, the RX-8 will remain NA and defiantly different. Priced as loaded at about $27K, happily useful (Just remember to pack a couple of extra quarts of oil in the trunk), and just a cool looking car, who needs turbo. If you just gots to have it, then go buy it and strap it on yourself. That seems to be the path the Japanese are following these days.
Toyota also seems to be trying to take a stab at the Corvette with their next Supra, price will be in line with the Vette as will performance. But aside from engine specs I have nothing else to really lean on with any certainty. But here, again, no turbo is being offered, but V8 power, Possibly a supped-up Lexus engine, is.
Now if they’d just build an MR2 that will sell. Just hammer down and build a mean little club racer.
I’m thinking the next thing that General Motors needs to do is put a hardtop on the Solstice and the Sky so there would be no reason to shop the RX-8. Give it the Turbo Ecotec motor standard, give it 300hp and they’ll have a winner. Right now, Pontiac and Mazda are direct competition in the market (Pontiac has a huge lead in RWD performance) and it would be nice to see them jump ahead in the coupe segment as well. The only thing Mazda would have that Pontiac doesn’t would be a competitor to the CX-9 but the Saturn Outlook already beats that one.
“…just a cool looking car, who needs turbo. If you just gots to have it, then go buy it and strap it on yourself.” posted by Blakkarr
Anyone can do this, Blakkarr, yes, but consider that some people live in heavily smog controlled states where they are harassed by the police just for having a modified engine. All they wanted was a turbocharged RX-8, right?
Too many states are considering following California’s dumb emissions laws, so Mazda should build a turbo rotary themselves so there is less of a hassle on the part of an enthusiast owner.
I say “dumb” because in California you can still pass the required tailpipe emissions or pass below the requirement for your vehicle (what everyone is after, right? No more smog per vehicle than allowed. Less if possible?) but regardless of how clean the vehicle runs, a modified engine will almost always fail upon visual inspection.
That’s why Mazda should build a turbo RX-8. Sure, lots of people can do it themselves. That isn’t the issue at all. The issue is the government preventing them from doing it in a normal manner without fear of having their car impounded (yes, impounded!).
if you want three rotors you can put a 20B in your car, of course it is expensive. The problem with the RX is that it is not a car for amateurs. It requires a lot of attention. For example you need to check oil levels regularly, if you race the car once you should plan to on changing your sealants immediately, and so on…
if i had this car I would put in a new fuel pump with a post market fuel filter, a larger radiator and inter-cooler, and a LS2, 20B, Audi 2.0T, or the VQ35 engine in.
deantj, an RX would never have a piston engine in it, hence the name RX.. R for Rotary. Only the MX would have a piston engine
I think the problem is that the last rotary car, the FD RX-7, was a lightweight road legal sportscar that had enough “go” and tuneability built in for its owners to forgive the short engine life and quirky nature of the rotary engine. The way an RX-7 performs, who cares about the gas mileage, high maintenance and cooling issues. Dealing with those things is completely worth it for that car.
Folks who love ANY RX-7 and who also restomod old RX-3’s, RX-4’s, etc. are already sold on the rotary in any state of tune.
It’s newer buyers that Mazda needs to think of and that’s why I think the performance edge is the best thing Mazda has going for the rotary engine in the future.
A Turbo 13B with 300 horsepower and 220+ lb/ft torque and all of Mazda’s modern improvements would do wonders for the RX-8.
I’m not entirely sure *why* the turbos were left out of the current-gen 13B rotary, but I do remember hearing (when the RX8 was about to be unleashed to the public) that Mazda was able to redesign the twin-rotor design from the older models such that it develops the same/similar power while still meeting U.S. emissions standards.
It stands to reason that it’s a cost-saving measure, but I have no data to back that up.
The Rotary engine needs more than just Mazda putting in the time and money on it to really make it work. Ford could really benefit by having this engine in a few cars. Late to seemingly every party, FORD needs something to help it stand out.
For Mercury, I’d go with a rotary powered “Messenger”. If anyone remembers than concept it was a basically “Mercury does a Corvette”. It was powered by the 4.6L V8, an engine that weighs more about twice what their 4L V6 does. Stick a lighter, smaller engine in that and FORD could have had a contender.
FORD is pretty well known for “Making it Work” as far as cars go (business… not so much right now). With FORD’s help Mazda could have a Rotary engine that burns nearly zero oil, compared the a Piston Engine, needs no rebuild for 100K+ miles, though still sooner than a well maintained Piston engine, and just a real alternative to the heavy, complex, piston engine in high performance apps.
This may be case much like the Modern jet engine, where the typical materials we associate with engines just aren’t going to cut it. Newer, stronger, more effective materials may very well be needed. to make an engine that will work. Also maybe a totally new approach as well.
That said, I’ll just reiterate: More than MAZDA is needed to make the Rotary work. Anyone have the number to Boeing or Lockheed-Martin?
i AGREE 120% homeboy234 THSES GUYS OBVIOUSLY ARE SUCKING UP TO GM, GM CAN’T MAKE CRAP, THEY SUCK THE CORVETTE SUCKS, PONTIAC SUCKS AND THAT G8, PLEASE IT’S JUST A MAZDA 6 RWD WANTABE.WHEN I SAW THE G8 I THOUGHT IT WAS A MAZDA 6. YOU KNOW WHAT THEY SHOULD CALL IT PONTCRAP MAZDA 6 WANTABE.
“Mazda is so far the only maker of Rotary engines in a production car.”
and… what about the NSU Ro80? why doesn’t it count?
“Mazda’s RX series is probably the only original Asian design EVER.”
944 owners might beg to differ on that “original Asian design” on the second generation RX-7.