Reading between the lines I think the vacuum test referred to
above is done at top dead center with a special fitting for
the spark plug hole. IMHO this checks the O-rings around
the oil scrapers. Using this trick requires the intake
and exhaust to be sealed. If the vacuum is pulled on
the intake, with the spark plugs in, only the exhaust needs
sealing.

Mazda uses some sort of material in those O rings in the scrapers
but I have no way of knowing what material is.

I can tell you this. They are not as temperature resistant
as they could be as we boiled some in oil. I drove my 1976 13B Cosmo
for years with burned out oil O-rings and the smoke upon start up
obscured the sun.

The best O-rings for this job are Creavey Teflon encapsulated
silicon O-rings good to 500F. Teflon is inert to all known
chemicals and silicone is good to 500 F. I am always harping
on these. We have used them for a couple of years with no problems.

http://www.creavey.com/

There is an ultimate solution to the problem of injecting just enough oil
for the apex seals and yet not too much to fowl the catalyst.

There is a gentlemen that lives in the Florida panhandle by the name of Richard
Sohn.

Richard manufactures a device that blocks the oil supply
from the oil pan to the apex seal metering pump and allows the connection
if a separate tank holding two cycle oil. Two cyclic oil burns cleanly.

You can then use the best oil for each job. Synthetic in the oil pan and
two cycle oil to lube the apex seals. Mazda should implement this idea as soon
as possible.

Don’t let the dealer tell you they will not fix your engine
because you used synthetic oil. When I bought my RX8 I specifically
asked the dealer and the Mazda Japan PR person if they objected
to synthetic oil. They said no but they had not tested it.
The very large Japanese oil company Idemitsu manufactures and sells
synthetic Rotary Engine oil that is specifically formulated
for rotary engines.

Synthentic has nothing to do with it. Many, if not MOST Rotary engine owners, including those with 13B-REW and older, use Synthentic without any problems. Well of course. it all depends on the Oil. Dino juice or Synth. ITs the Quality that matters.

and also, you forgot about the “flash point” of oil. An internal Combusion engine has the temp. thats FAR FAR higher than any engine oil’s flash point, and less not forget you just need to add about 2% gasoline to an engine oil and its flash point will drop as much as 100 degress.

So the “Synth Oil resist burning” just doesnt make sense at all.

Also one thing to keep in mind, all the engine that fail at Vegas has NO SYNTHENTIC oil in it. Yep, thats right , all of those ppl has Dino juice. So what does that mean ?

Theres no way for Mazda to test every single oil out there, they can play it safe by just saying “We do not know the long term effects …” , and theres a differents between “Not recommended” and “Against”

Thank you

One year later I have had no reliability issues, and I suspect it is mainly because I drive it pretty hard. I achieve 11-12 mpg and burn 1 qt of oil every 1000 miles.

The public has gotten the idea that the RX8 is unreliable, but I would ask them if they would actually consider their own car’s engines more reliable if forced to drive between 6000 and 8000 rpms on the freeway every day.

No question this is the most robust and reliable engine I have ever owned.

a Honda “fit” or “jazz” engine is;

I-4 1.4L
109HP @ 5800rpm
105ft-lbs of torque @ 4800rpm

comparably;

2-Rotor 1.3L
232HP @ 8500rpm
159ft-lbs @5500rpm

not only is the rotary smaller, but it produces more than 100 more HP and 50ft-lb more torque, at RPM levels that would make anything except a porsche, or F1 engine CRY. and NO engine except one that’s rebuilt every 400miles can produce a specific output of over 200HP per liter, PERIOD.

The Wankel Rotary has no cams, no lifters, no rods, and no Valves that can potentially fail. Usually an engine with ANY of these need to have those areas worked over at around 100-120k. Yeah, you might say that maintenance is worse with a rotary. Yeah right. If you treat this engine properly, you MIGHT have to get the Apex Seals done around 150-200k. Other than plugs and wires, which are necessary on any engine regardless of design, with proper treatment (again, as with any engine) can last a very long time. By simple design mechanics; Less moving parts = simplicity = reliability. So all things being equal, and both powerplants being treated properly for their design, the rotary will outlast a traditional powerplant.

The talk of the catylitic converter going has long been a problem with a rotary engine simply because the exhaust gases are Hotter in a rotary. You’d need to place it further away from the engine to keep it from being melted. But with a car of such size; it’s extremely difficult to do. Now remember; this recall is voluntary, and it’s not about the engine burning oil, it’s about oil leaks. This engine, is like a 2-cycle in almost all respects, which, are more efficient at power, less at emissions, and because of the Speed at which this engine can rotate, people complain of the fuel economy for a 1.3L engine. BUT, if you compare to the amount of HP being produced, you SHOULD be comparing the fuel economy to an engine almost triple the displacement. In that respect, the engine is pretty reasonable.

Final word on this, I bet people put alot of synthetics in these engines, BIG NO NO. A synthetic is designed to resist burning, to NOT produce ash, and the high detergent levels can actually dry out and damage the Apex Seals. This is the only high-performance engine that should REQUIRE conventional motor oil. It NEEDs to burn SOME oil to lubricate those seals. So, if you think about it, an oil change on this versus something of equal performance is ALOT cheaper. As the happy owners above stated, this is NOT a jump in and go-type of car. Just a LITTLE bit of checking the oil levels on this car can lead to the allieviation of nearly all the major problems people complain about. You people complain of the design saying it’s flawed. Well, i say it has less flaws than a traditional engine, and being in development for 40years vs. over 100 for a traditional design, this engine is MUCH more sophisticated compared to a traditional powerplant was at IT’S 50th year of development. Change your thinking. This engine is pure genius.

The Truth is, Just like those owners above, is that you need to unlearn conventional car characteristics when you step into an RX. My father got a fairly abused 93 Rx-7 Touring with 108k on the ODO. the tach was wonky and the boost was way off. a rubber gasket for the turbos had a hole in it like a flap, so unless both turbos was spun up, no boost effect. My father got the gasket replaced cheap, and BABIED that engine since he got it. He was mixing in small amounts of Klotz R50 (2-cycle racing oil for those who don’t know) into the gas at a ratio of about 100:1 or less give or take. This is a really smart thing to do, because this oil is designed to produce ASH (yeah, why would you want that?) which lube something specific to Rotaries called the “APEX SEALS” (it also produced a ‘racy odor’ lol) but I think it went a long way to helping that car. Both cats are still intact (luckily for him it wasn’t abused THAT badly) Everytime we take it out, it idles for about 10minutes before it’s put into gear. Trust me, the Rx-7 and Rx-8 are true enthusiast cars. The inherent design to the engine produces little torque. I mean, seriously, when was the last time you drove a 1.3L engine with so much power? All these engines are assembled by HAND, and you wonder why nobody else is doing it? Not reliability, I assure you. These engines are truly exotic simply from the COST of developing it. GM was seriously considering a 4-rotor in the 1960s for the Corvette. They didnt want to pay for development, and the people wanted a burbly V8. So, only mazda stepped up to fit the bill for the most unique internal combustion engine on the planet. We can only WISH other car manufacturers would put forth that kind of dedication to the vehicles we drive every day. I’m a Nissan guy; but there’s no way I’d turn down a Rotary in any kind of decent shape.

SO. MUCH. FUN.

#1 rule is that it requires maintainence and attention like a typical bike. Every weekend you need to tweak and double-check with it a little bit – and for heaven’s sake, don’t abuse it without realizing that you’ll need a new engine sooner rather than later.

The car is *exactly* like a car with carbs in how it runs. People can’t seem to read the manual and figure it out.
- Never run cold. Winter starts are especially problematic for it.
- Never beat on it until it’s been worked-in about 3-5 miles. Follow *exactly* the same startup procedures Harley recommends for their bikes. Because you can also damage your Harley or Kawasaki easily, too if you don’t.
- The things can flood – learn proper starting techniques. Also, blip the gas when you shut it off.
- It burns oil. Get over it. My 67 Mercedes burns a quart a week, but I’m not selling it, no way. Oil is cheaper than gas, lately.(heh)
- Don’t run it without oil. The main reasons it dies and the seals blow are two things:
A:Racing it until it pings/backfires – and eats itself.
B:No oil. Or racing it hard right off. Oil-starved rotaries well, eat themselves exactly like a 2-stroke would with only gas in it. Low oil in the car more than a quart or so will quickly cause damage if you make a habit of it.

Of course, in my Mercedes, I check the oil every two days – go over, open the hood, visually check the belts and fluids, check the oil – and close the hood. I’m good to go. So far, only a siezed tensioner pulley for my AC has gotten by me(bearings made no tell-tale noise – odd, that).

I did the same thing with my Suzuki motorcycle and my old racing bike years ago, so I’m used to it. It’s not a Buick that you can ignore for weeks or months at a time – and you KNOW people do it to the poor car.

Now, there are two issues that Mazda has to deal with.
1:Toss the part in the manual – when you get your car, you want to change the oil at 50 miles, 200 miles, and then 1000 miles. This applies for all cars, but moreso for quick-revving ones. Use non-synthetic for these initial changes, reguardless what the manual says. It needs to be viscous and sticky/wear more – to get the crud out.

The amount of grit and metal shavings that comes out of the machinery as it does the initial break-in(initial 50 miles is about 70% of it!) is apalling. $80 in oil changes in the first 3,000 miles will save you much grief down the road. This is true with any car made today. (though some bikes are broken-in before the engine is put in it, it’s not true for automobiles)

2:Oil eats cats. This is like a cat on a diesel – it’s going to need replacing after only a couple of years if you beat on it, so consider it a consumable like a timing belt(which you don’t need to worry with on the rotary, btw).

2B:Burning oil is proper for a rotary, like a 2-stroke engine. “OMG IT BURNS OIL” isn’t an omen of doom like it is in a conventional engine. People need to un-learn that and Mazda is doing a really poor job of getting it across.

***

But properly warmed up and looked after, they are beautiful cars. But they aren’t for idiots who want a toy they can hop in and ignore. Get a Miata if you want to abuse and ignore your car.

As gg said, none of the other big players would replace the engines – kudos to Mazda for doing that. Although it seems like the NSU ro80-disaster, Mazda might be able to overcome this ….

quote >> anyone remember the NSU ro80?

RX-Break

There was this little problem of Mazda having to reprogram the PCM to extend the life of the catalytic coverters of the first ones to hit U.S. shores. That resulted in lower HP than what Mazda advertised. What did Mazda do upon making the change? They offered to buy back all the early RX8s from their owners….or, to extend free service to the original owner for the entire 4 year warranty period. I loved the car so much, I took the free maintenance.

If you look at MPG numbers of similar cars (350Z, for example), the fuel economy is about the same. I got 17 MPG in town and mid-20s MPG on the highway.

Then, there’s the issue of oil consumption. The RX8 was designed to use a bit of oil. Mine used about 1 at of oil every 3K-5K miles. I didn’t consider that abnormal. I do think most people today just want to put gas in their car and go….with an occasional stop at their “quicky lube” joint. Most wouldn’t know if they were using oil in their piston engines or not. Because, they never check it. When’s the last time you saw someone with their hood up checking their oil at your local gas station?

Probably the biggest complaint was the fact that the RX8 could flood if started and then stopped when cold (as in a short 1/4 mile trip to the grocery store on a winter night). A flooded RX8 often could not be restarted because the plugs woul be fouled. That required a flat bed ride to the dealership. Mazda, through many reflashes of the PCM over time, all but eliminated the issue. The answer, of course, was not to shut down the RX8 if it was cold and immediately try to restart it.

A lot of this stems from people not reading their owners manual. A lot of it was about unrealistic expectations.

Bottom line….Mazda took care of me, probably better than any other car company I’ve ever had dealings with. They never shirked any issues and always went out of their way to make me happy. The RX8 (and the RX7 before it) is quirky. Know that, read your owners manual, and you’ll be fine.

Now, Mazda is stepping up and replacing engines…without the gov’t twisting their arm. It won’t be cheap, nor is it good PR…but they are doing it, so it seems. Can you imagine Mercedes, Chrysler, BMW, Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda, etc doing the same thing? Guess again.

Only reason I’m a former owner of an RX8 was the mere fact it was rear ended by an F150. The car gave its life for my safety.

RX-8 Break-In

Mazda’s Guidelines

The Mazda RX-8 Owners Manual lists the following information for the break-in period of a new vehicle:

“No special break-in is necessary, but a few precautions in the first 1000 KM (600 miles) may add to the performance, economy, and life of your Mazda.

- Don’t race the engine.
- Don’t maintain one constant speed for long.
- Don’t drive constantly at full-throttle or high engine RPM for extended periods of time.
- Avoid unnecessary hard stops.
- Avoid full-throttle starts.”

A review of the Mazda RX-8 Service Manual Highlights revealed the following information regarding break-in:

“A fluorocarbon resin coating has been added to the trochoid surface (rotor housing) for improved initial break-in.”

Racing Beat’s Guidelines

The Mazda guidelines are reasonable and prudent. If you have any questions or uncertainly regarding the break-in period, we suggest you follow these official recommendations.

We receive many requests for our recommended break-in procedures. The following are Racing Beat’s recommendations:

- For the first 1000 miles do not accelerate under full throttle.
- During the first 1000 miles do not exceed 4000 RPM.
- For miles 1000-2000, expand the RPM upwards – but do not accelerate at full throttle.
- Over 2000 miles, full throttle and high RPM is acceptable.

In summary, our guidelines offer a progressive method to increase the working loads placed on the engine.

Oil Change

The Mazda RX-8 Owners Manual indicates that the engine oil and oil filter be changed every six (6) months or every 7500 miles, whichever comes first. Racing Beat supports this recommendation.

Mazda recommends the use of SAE 5W/20 with a quality designation of ILSAC or SL.

Source:
2004 RX-8 Owners Manual – pages 4-7 & 8-4.
2004 RX-8 Service Highlights – page 01-10-4

Happy RX8 owner