Comments on: Michigan pushing for $27 billion in Federal aid for Detroit 3

By: Xile

Xile — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 06:43:37 +0000

@Random Jerk –
The argument is one of priorities and severity. If you have someone stealing an apple from the supermarket and another stealing thousands of dollars from a bank, which one would you try to stop? If I use your reasoning, both are crimes so it really doesn’t matter.

By: Random Jerk

Random Jerk — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:59:43 +0000

Is there a dumber argument to justify an expensive government backed redistribution of wealth than saying “well we are spending billions in Iraq”. What kind of idiot reasons like that? “If were wasting a lot of money on X I don’t see why we can’t waste more on Y?”

By: 400horseSS

400horseSS — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:55:03 +0000

^But what you dont understand is what if you have a foreign neighbor who pays less taxes and is paid to live next to you with steep discounts, you wouldn’t like that would you, its the same **** GM, Ford and whatever DCX is called nowadays.

By: jumpoffit

jumpoffit — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:32:06 +0000

i need some cash, can anyone bail me out?

By: zoomnbyu

zoomnbyu — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:20:39 +0000

Funny. We have a free enterprise system yet this year alone we need to bail out mortgagees, mortgagers and now the auto industry. Personally, I would like my tax money spent elsewhere! Thank you for listening, Congress. (Yeah, right.) Fix the energy prices and you will fix the economy!!! Make individuals and businesses accountable for their own actions and let the chips fall as they may.

By: xyunya

xyunya — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:12:34 +0000

“more often then not criminality”

By: xyunya

xyunya — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:11:54 +0000

Bremen_Koenigsegg,there is no such thing as a good government bailout. By definition somebody (taxpayer and consumer) who has nothing to do with business or political failure has to pay for business or politician lack of judgment. As a consumer and taxpayer I am all against it. I have no objection to those who support bailouts do it on charity level, but I have no intention mortgage the future of my children for someone else greed, miscalculation and more often then criminality.

By: xyunya

xyunya — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:06:48 +0000

I have a solution: everybody feeling bad for big 3 and city of Detroit can send them their contribution. It will better your continence and will not affect my pocket. I have pretty clear conscience and frankly don’t give a crap about Detroit’s problem and big 3 problems. They shall pass, I do give a lot of thought about my family and my welfare, and not interested to subsidize any type of ass*holes: corporate or politicos.

marcdevon, right on!

By: Bremen_Koenigsegg

Bremen_Koenigsegg — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:03:51 +0000

^ @ Deanster TJ
If you’re not going to make a rebuttal, it is probably best not to say anything at all. Might I suggest moving to America? You don’t come across as polite enough to be Canadian.

^ @ MarcDevon
PICK UP AN ECONOMICS TEXT. The free market, as employed throughout Asia, Africa, South America, and the former Soviet Union, via Washington-based international institutions, is largely responsible for a whole slew of economic failures. The most dramatic examples of which you will find in Russia, Argentina, and that spot of trouble Asia suffered back in 1996-97. You are buying into the same dangerous ideology I mentioned in my original post! And you seem to suffer a very black-and-white mentality. There are varying levels of government intervention, even in market-based economies; I don’t need to be a communist to think the current variety of market capitalism is not working. The only point I am trying to make, MarcDevon, is that a government bailout for any of the Big Three is a good thing for your country. (And that a country as powerful as America should provide free healthcare. It is the economically advantageous thing to do.)

By: DeansterTJ

DeansterTJ — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:25:43 +0000

Koenigsegg, you are a ****ing retard. Private healthcare should be a crime?

As a doctor in Canada (public healthcare) I dare say you’d be better served choking off your balls and jerking off to Old Farts/Young Tarts than dispensing your sloppy wasted crap on this site. Thanks asshole!

By: VictorRaikkonen

VictorRaikkonen — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:18:57 +0000

I agree with Johnnycanuk to an extent. As an Australian, who once lived in the US, I too do not give a rats arse about your economy. Hell, thanks to Bush, your banks, and the former “Big 3,” the Aussie dollar is nearly on par with that of the green back. And.., because of that I can import things from the states for a much cheeper price than it would cost here in oz. Now that I think about it, I do care about your economy because it being in the toilet is good for my wallet plus, unlike Canada, our economy is insulated from the US.

That said, I am surprised not to hear people up in arms over the fact that sine politicians are trying to create a new welfare class to give out money the federal government does not have. Well, I guess they can just print off more money without the gold to actually back it up just as they have in the past, and continue to do so today. I guess it will register with Americans just how screwed their economy is when California considers independence and China offers to purchase Washington state. Hell, with the looks of it Mexico is mounting a hostile take over of Texas and the Cubans south Florida.

By: marcdevon

marcdevon — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 09:48:08 +0000

I hate to say it… but maybe parts of this country need to go down the drain. The rich have been getting richer and the poor have been getting poorer for far too long. Someone needs to reach up and hit the reset button.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Do you care to explain (in detail) how one person becomes richer at the expense of another person becoming poorer? Or would you rather just keep spouting your tired lefting rhetoric?

By: marcdevon

marcdevon — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 09:44:56 +0000

I’m not American, and I don’t give two ****s about your economy; however, I am Canadian, and our economy is unfortunately quasi-dependent on yours, so it is my prerogative to fill you guys in. Right-wing market fundamentalism will ruin your economy. If you leave it up to the free market, the Big Three will fail, and a dozen municipalities will suffer.

As little as I respect the Big Three, and as much as I regard everything they make as intolerable crap, if they went bust, the damage it will cause to your country’s economy would be crippling. There are a whole slew of factors working together to ruin your automobile manufacturing industry; namely, the oil crisis and those two rubbish wars which have devastated your economy.

While automobile demands changed almost instantly (a couple years’ time; an instant in the large scale manufacturing industry) with the development of the oil crisis, initiatives then currently underway did not consider such an event, and to cancel initiatives would be costly and ruin investor confidence. So they pressed on and are now being scolded for not being sensitive to today’s issues. You see, large corporations can’t do U-turns; the reason for that is an essay unto itself.

This “bail out” is in the best interest of your country, because to lose any one of the Big Three would do irreparable damage to communities across the continent. Read a bloody economics textbook; learn about the dangers of market fundamentalism; look at the sorry state of your damn country! Clearly something is wrong. Being taxed is not a crime! Privatized healthcare should be. I know the invisible hand of the market is a compelling argument, but it is dangerous ideology — economics is vastly more complicated than you all seem to think. The United States, indeed. It’s like you’re working together to destroy your own nation.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There is so much lunacy in this post I don’t know where to begin. You don’t seem to care for a market based economy where producers and buyers freely interact with each other. The free market has been the best wealth creating vehicle encountered by mankind. It has produced numerous products that make our lives enjoyable and better. I guess that you are more acceptable to a command and control economy. It worked well in the USSR didn’t.

What hurting GM, Ford, and Chrysler is not “two rubbish wars”. What’s killing them is the legacy cost associated with paying for the pensions and health care for their retired workers. High gas prices are hurting them because it has reduced the demand for their highly profitable SUVs. My sister used to work for GM as an IE. She told me that they hardly mae money (or may have lost money) on their smaller cars. With the new CAFE standards, congress and the president may have just legislated their most profitable vehicles out of existence (see the wonderful effects of a command and control economy).

The bail out is not in the best interest of the country. If all the idiots who post here along with the idiot writers of LLN feel that way then go ahead and send to GM, Ford, and Chrysler your own bailout check out of your own checking account. Of course none of you numbskulls will do it. You will demand that everyone else fund (via the gubmint) what you are not willing to fund yourself.

By the way, you are right. The economy is very complex. That’s why central planners such as yourself should stay out of it. An economy as big as ours is too big and complex for a few “enlightened” people to plan and control.

Privatized health care should be a crime? That is to say that you would make illegal for a health care provider to provide a service for willing customer a service for an agreed upon price. Man, you are ready for a straight jacket.

By: Omnis

Omnis — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 07:53:42 +0000

Privatize profit, socialize risk. It’s the American way.

By: DeansterTJ

DeansterTJ — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:42:24 +0000

Blah blah blah ****ing blah.

I’m NOT GIVING MONEY TO A BUNCH OF RICH EXECS SO THEY CAN KEEP GETTING RICHER. **** YOU ALL, THANK YOU ASSHOLES

By: Turkle

Turkle — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:31:59 +0000

The U.S. does not function as a pure capitalist market (where capitalism trumps all) as a certain Canadian poster assumes most Americans believe. The federal, state, and local governments regulate just about every aspect of our capitalist state. There are also private organizations that regulate through association with employees, consumers, and the executives of companies (ex., unions, ACLU, IEEE, etc.).

The politics of this will prevent it from being voted on. Democrats would dance with glee on the grave site of any one of the Big 3. Liberals will not allow the federal government to prop up the same companies that are responsible for so much green house gas production. Corporations are evil and deserve what they get is the mentality of the hard left, forget that they are made up of hard working, tax paying, contributors to society.

By: beatusmongous

beatusmongous — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:00:55 +0000

Um, yeah, one single person in responsible for messing up the lives of 300 million other people? I don’t think so. He can’t screw everything up without the help of Congress. Sure, I’m pissed because I voted him in and I feel like he turned on me, but there are more than 600 other people there that all pitched in for whatever reason. I don’t even think they are 100% responsible, as I think we citizens need to take quite a bit of responsibility of this upon ourselves as well. I like RaineMan’s suggestion: Hit the reset button! The effects will be drastic, but the strong will survive, and we will become stronger because of it. I have a feeling the reset is coming fast.

By: bolex

bolex — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:57:44 +0000

400horsesSS, tryin to stay away from politics but im with ya’..

By: bolex

bolex — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:55:57 +0000

RaineMan, very true. the middleclass is virtually being wiped out right before our eyes. The U.S continues to give the rich tax incentives to companies that they deem beneficial to them, helping out the U.S Auto is not a growing cash cow like, say the oil business, so they wont help the Domestics…even though it makes up a large part of US economy. so yeah ,we need a reset button…

By: 400horseSS

400horseSS — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:42:51 +0000

It’s been said may times before< Bush has f@cked it up for everybody for many years to come, thank you to the a@@holes who voted him in twice, now WE are all f*cked.

By: Turkle

Turkle — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:21:19 +0000

Beyond simply looking at where cars are being built, I would first have to question how the Big 3 would use this money. Would it go to improving the quality, efficiency, and perception of their products solely in the United States? Would money provided by U.S. taxpayers stop at the border? Or would it help fund the growth of the emerging markets where profits are more immediate (near term) and market share is easier to expand?
I am a believer in free markets and cringe every time I hear of an industry getting “bailed” out by the tax payers. One criteria for each instance should be the immediate dismissal of the CEO, COO, CFO, and senior voting directors of the board.

By: brentray

brentray — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:06:37 +0000

Everyone should listen to what Bremen_Koenigsegg has to say. He’s spot on.

Sometimes it takes an objective view to find the answers.

By: RaineMan

RaineMan — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:05:42 +0000

By: bolex

bolex — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:01:58 +0000

Bremen_Koenigsegg, nice right up and i agree. not to get too political its unfortunate that a Canadian can see this but half of the U.S can’t. oh well, this country is going down the drain, we know who’s laregely responsible yet they’ll blame the innocent party on the damages done. ?

By: bolex

bolex — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:55:30 +0000

johnnycanuck you seriously crack me up. lol

By: RaineMan

RaineMan — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:50:29 +0000

An extremely valid point sterfry. The Big 3 should not qualify for any federal aid unless they close down their Canadian and (especially) Mexican plants first. Why should the taxpayers give money to them so they can continue to keep employing the citizens of Canada and Mexico… who aren’t paying a dime to help them out.

By: sterfry71

sterfry71 — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:35:06 +0000

Chrysler is closing the St. Louis minivan plant but not the Windsor, Ontario minivan plant. If they are going to close US plants and leave foreign plants open building the same vehicles, they shouldn’t qualify for any assistance from the US government. Tax payers shouldn’t subsidize foreign jobs. I don’t know if GM and Ford have done the same thing but if so, they should be exempt from assistance as well.

By: xyunya

xyunya — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:29:24 +0000

Chinese and Indian steel in the cars is in not best interest of our country, but assembly lines where cars are screwed together are? We lost textile, steel manufacturing, electronics, and slew of other industries to less expensive labor markets and country will not be able to sustain shift of auto industry form north/midwest to south? Most of automotive industry is actually growing, but not by inept “Big 3″. There are tons of Asian and European assembly factories and components manufacturers are spreading around Carolinas, Texas, Alabama, Kentucky, Tennessee. Those factories don’t have unions and don’t have labor relationship like Ford and GM. This can only be good for us, American consumers.

By: Bremen_Koenigsegg

Bremen_Koenigsegg — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:54:14 +0000

By: ktulu

ktulu — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:45:57 +0000

Y not just give money to the customers? Buy an “American” car, U can deduct half of it from your tax return.

subsidies to the companies will not work.

Y mention the Obamster’s middle name? He’ll win anywar, wven with the rite-wing moiuslim gfear tactics.

those people should be preparing to make a career change.

The jobs in the auto auto industry R important, bcuz if we have 2 go 2 war, we don’t want 2 B dependat on 4n companies 2 switch 2 tank production.
Wespecially if we have 2 fight germany or japan.

the overpriced crap cars cum on boats from asia

Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac bailoutrs R stupid.

The gov’t has 2 much debt

the war is a bigger waste of $ than this proposed dailout.

old cars R cool

the number o’ low-quality overpriced products from the big 3 has plummeted. They did squander a lot on fat bonuses sted R&D

It is not us Vs. us, it is us Vs. them

By: johnnycanuck

johnnycanuck — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:07:19 +0000

As a concerned Canadian I’d be willing to donate all the money I get from my empties towards this cause. Most of that usually goes for smokes, but without cars how am I going to get to the store anyway. I’d put wheels on the wife, but she costs more to fill up than the car.

By: bolex

bolex — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:00:27 +0000

i agree Xile. your comment sums it up for me.

By: xyunya

xyunya — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:43:33 +0000

^^^^^^^Not true: libertarians don’t want to piss their hard earned money as well. There is no such thing as good government initiative; it’s always gets f*ucked along the way. Just like cars and trucks GM is making.

By: 400horseSS

400horseSS — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:38:45 +0000

Mayer, you dont see the southern states pimping out their population to get the new Foreign plants, it is state vs state, and its time for Michigan to get theirs.

By: 400horseSS

400horseSS — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:37:12 +0000

“Retard-plicans”