Come on Mark, let us know what they told you. How many chose another GM product and what were the complaints.

I’m not hiding anything – what you see is what I know. Promise.

This makes more sense than their last statement where they said only one was returned.

Percentage-wise, thats a drop in the bucket. Out of a couple hundred thousand, that many were gonna be disatisfied regardless.

If someone doesn’t take a $500 incentive and ops into this, they are unsure of the product anyway. It is my opinion these people should not have bought a car they were unsure of in the first place.

We may never really know what was in the minds of these individuals, making it hard to give GM credit or criticism.

To be fair, I think the story is a bit misleading, the results of GM’s program have been widely reported all week. I’m not in the market the for a GM but from what I gather and anecdotal evidence from others GM is being straight forward with customers; if they opt out of the 60 day return program they get an extra $500 discount. Since most people who are going to buy are committed the program is probably irrelevant.

From what is being reported GM is only losing ~10% of the returns to non GM purchases. The key metric when all is said and done will be the number of new purchasers (previous non GM) and/or positive brand perception that results. In the end the program seems to be having the desired effect and is not really costing the company much other than advertising. A statement from yesterday by Mark Reuss, GM’s vice president of global product engineering:

“According to Reuss, less than 200 of the recent 222,000 GM customers are in the process of returning a car.

Of those 222,000 new-vehicle buyers, 653 have opted for the guarantee instead of a $500 rebate. And of those 653, 53 have already returned their car, and another 140 or so are in the process. Reuss cited examples of a few customers that were just not happy with the exact model they purchased. One wanted an automatic instead of the manual trans they initially bought. Another was dissatisfied in the paint and finish of a Silverado. But of the roughly 200 returns, GM is only losing about 10 percent to another make. Twenty cars is not a bad price to pay for what Reuss calls, “excellent consumer research.”

http://blog.caranddriver.com/60-days-later-gms-money-back-guarantee/

DB9;-)

DB9, the numbers you quoted are in my story. “Less than 200″ = 193. 193/653=29.55%. It is true that nearly 30 percent of those who opted for the money-back guarantee have chosen to return their cars based on everything I have read. I also used BOTH quotes you quoted in my piece as well.

Not sure where it was misleading?

True this… Guy wanted to a rent Camaro SS to see if he’d like it enough for conpany car. At $169 per day, he figured to buy the SS with the GM buy back. It would cost him about $1000 in tax, license & insurance, for 60 days, vs. $10000 to rent. His employer put him in something more practical. Wanna slightly used (600 miles) black SS automatic?

The title is somewhat misleading. When you look at the big picture, that’s only about 8.7% of cars returned overall. Not bad, but overall monthly sales are still the best indicator of GM’s progress.

Mark, I’m not accusing you of being intentionally misleading; however, the title to the story or the first sentence at least should have stated that the company indicates that only 10% of the people who returned their vehicle opted for a non GM product instead.

FWIW, I’ve liked many of your previous articles and thought you did a great job with the “Fiesta Movement.”No there’s a program that will be digested by everyone in and outside the biz for years to come – Kudos to Ford – well done!

DB9;-)

What is the true percentage of buyers actually walking away dissatisfied and who never intended on making a real purchase? Even still GM, got people talking about their products.

I see what you mean DB9. In order for my take on the story to make sense I am relying on the readers to digest the entire piece, but I’ll keep that in mind. Thanks for the kind words, too.
As for the Fiesta Movement – I think you are very right… it was a momentous program from a pure marketing effort standpoint alone.

When you look at the garbage coming out of japan I would buy a GM in a second.

“In order for my take on the story to make sense I am relying on the readers to digest the entire piece, but I’ll keep that in mind.”

I guess it wouldn’t be worth reading if the headline said, “Out of 222,000 customers, only .003% have returned their cars.”

So much for journalistic integrity…

No matter how you look at it, I am sure the GM haters are going to be surprised when they read the article that it is not 30% of GM’s total sales that were returned. This is definitely a good idea for consumer research. You will be able to tell what the buyer disliked on the vehicle that made him/her return it. This way in the future you can correct it and make sure the quality is even better.

If the title indicated that only 193 of 222k had returned the car, I would have been accused of being misleading by those who understand that only 653 (out of 222,000) had an option of returning the car. Either way, based on perspective, you could claim the title to be misleading. I knew I couldn’t win…so I chose to go with the title that I felt to be technically correct.

I’ll try and opt for the title that can be viewed as being biased in favor the GM fans next time.

“I’ll try and opt for the title that can be viewed as being biased in favor the GM fans next time. ”

LOLOLOL!

I don’t think you need to change anything. As you can see from comments, people are dissecting the information. Now as to the spin they want to give it based on their biases…

Mark, your title was fine. Some people here aren’t quite at the 5th grade reading level; I wouldn’t worry about it!

Not that the title is wrong, it just requires too much thinking for some people, easy to interpret it the wrong way at first. Maybe you should have made the title…Over 70% of Participants in GM’s 60-Day Money Back Guarantee Chose to Keep Cars.

So what happened to GM’s claim that only 1 car was returned?? This is typical of GM, they steel money from themselves, then they go bankrupt and convince the government that they need our tax dollars so they can continue this criminal enterprise known as GM. Anyone buying a GM car is a complete ignorant idiot who knows nothing about quality and sophistication.

Zesty
speaking of 5th grade reading, I’ll bet NMOFGM does not post on this story… He will probably read the read line and his little gerbil brain will process “30% of GM buyers returned their vehicles”. The poor little retard will be lying on the floor in the fetal position for weeks.

read line should be headline… me and my 5th grade education.

Ecrement, climb back into your trailer and have sex with your dog.

^easyrider, if by “trailer” you mean your bedroom and by “dog” you mean your own mother, I’ve already done that. You got a sister?

Mark, nice to see an author actually come on here and blog his story, kudos. Thank god some people actually make clear educated comments on a story for the first time ever on this site. Mark, I did find your title a bit misleading too until I read your story and got the full picture. Most people will just read your title and think “another failed GM attempt to lure customers” and will not take the time to read what you were trying to say. Not bashin you, just givin my opinion. Good facts none the less.

“Reuss also explained that GM has used this opportunity to have GM executives reach out to each returning customer with a personal phone call, asking for feedback. Reuss said that the calls provided GM with the “best unfiltered consumer feedback” GM has ever obtained.”

aren’t there cheaper ways to get feedback?
How about actually listening to people when they send an email with a complaint or suggestion.

Or send out surveys. Or focus groups (yeah they probably have them… but I never actually heard of anyone being invited to one about cars)

Or ask your employees what they think.

It’s not rocket science.

excrement; way to screw up a bash free comment streak… congrats you’ve lived up to your name

I’ll give Mark props… he came up with a controversial title(misleading though it was) that got people to open the article, then told the story. I would like to see more information on the feedback if anyone finds it.

Best unfiltered feedback??? Are you kidding? Ever read Consumer Reports? Ever been to one of your dealerships’ service dept. on a Saturday morning? There is no shortage of consumer feedback… just a desire to hear it on GM’s part.

Want the best unfiltered feedback? Look at sales. Tells you all you need to know. Also, look at your company’s balance sheet.

Another tool working for GM.

Brilliant.

h82w8 – Consumers Reports is not generally the best for feedback as they use to have a practice of giving Toyota average ratings on their new and redesigned vehicles without testing it.

“Reuss also explained that GM has used this opportunity to have GM executives reach out to each returning customer with a personal phone call, asking for feedback. Reuss said that the calls provided GM with the “best unfiltered consumer feedback” GM has ever obtained.” GM has been in business for over a century they just now have received so of their “best unfiltered consumer feedback.” Pathetic. All the more reason Gross Mismanagement (GM) is still headed for the big Out of Business sign in the sky.

I think the best way to see how this marketing campain worked is to see how many people that may have not even thought about a GM vehicle that actually went and looked at one, bought one, or took the 60 day to see what it was like.
I think those numbers will be the most important because if you can get someone that dosen’t even have you on their radar to come in and see your product I would look at that as a good thing.
By the way thanks for the article Mark.

I can not believe the number of people on this site that actually hope for GM to fail. If I was an employee of General Motors I would deeply offended by you people. Hoping that the GM fails is really disrespectful.

The biggest surprised to me is that only 653 people out of 220,000 opted into the heavily advertised program. In terms of marketing, those are horrendous results and the program should be deemed a failure. yes you can argue all day long that it might have brought a certain percentage of people into the showrooms that saw the commercials, but I would still believe that when the program was approved, the ROI for success must have included much higher numbers accepting the offer.

Has this marketing helped GM? I don’t know. I do know their sales numbers have improved a lot since the bankruptcy, so this advertising has not hurt them.

@DenverGuy217
Yes it says 653 out of 220,000. But it dosen’t say out of the 219,347 how many of them came in and saw/drove a car and just desided to get it and not take the 60 days.
Like Bubs said their sales have been going up since they have left bankruptcy so I would have to say that this marketing campain is a success.

Excrement, spoken like true white trash.:)

“ajm11
I can not believe the number of people on this site that actually hope for GM to fail. If I was an employee of General Motors I would deeply offended by you people. Hoping that the GM fails is really disrespectful.”

I work at a Chevy dealership, so not a true employee of GM, but I have represented their products for about 6 years now. Some people are just rude, idiotic or so brainwashed they have nothing better to do then hope for disaster. But I learned a long time ago that “if they ain’t talking about you, it means you are not doing anything right”. So you just shrug it off for what it is: excrement from the mouth of haters and fools. I love constructive critisism and will engage anyone in a fruitful debate, and I have also been unhappy at times with decisions made by the brass at GM. But name me one global 100 year old company that doesn’t have its issues or had to restructure. But its all good and GM will be around next year and many years down the road. The haters will find something else to bitch about, but its all good as they make the more intelligent ones of us look even better

@bradleygt
What dealership do you work at?

0-60

Chevrolet @ the Avenues in Jacksonville, FL

Mark, I meant Mark Reuss in the first post.

And to whatever idiot made the comment that Lutz said only one person had turned in a car. What was that, a month ago? Things happen in a month. Anyway, back to the bashing.

Mark, is there anything LLN can do to cut out the obvious idiots on here? I know this is the internet and we all have free speech but getting kinda tired of the ones that really have nothing to say but say it anyway.

“This is typical of GM, they steel money from themselves, then they go bankrupt and convince the government that they need our tax dollars so they can continue this criminal enterprise known as GM.”

You again, Excrement. Please read this link.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/typical

If all of that was ‘typical’, GM would have done this before, numerous times…. which they haven’t.

“Hoping that the GM fails is really disrespectful.”

No doubt. Disrespectful to every taxpayer in North America. I guess some people just don’t want their tax money returned to help offset the debt accumulated by our Governments over the last year. In other words, far too many people have no room for the bigger picture if it means they can’t regurgitate whatever whining they heard from their neighbours that morning about company X.

I bought a new Chevrolet Truck and have been nothing but disappointed in how booring it is to drive it. It has not had one recall yet. I would have bought the Toyota if I had known that they offered “Autopilot Floor Mats.” What will those funky Japanese people come up with next? (Redesigned gas pedals I suppose…) Toyota chooses to suppress complaints of defects instead of taking them back like GM.

I bought a new Chevrolet Truck and have been nothing but disappointed in how boring it is to drive it. It has not had one recall yet. I would have bought the Toyota if I had known that they offered “Autopilot Floor Mats.” What will those funky Japanese people come up with next? (Redesigned gas pedals I suppose…) Toyota chooses to suppress complaints of defects instead of taking them back like GM.

Since I cant edit, ill just re post for the typos

@bradleygt
Thanks.

The title was deliberately misleading. I expect that from amateurs, not LLN.

“I see what you mean DB9. In order for my take on the story to make sense I am relying on the readers to digest the entire piece, but I’ll keep that in mind.”

Mark, as a frequent writer myself that’s a bit of a cop-out considering the inflammatory title…sure the title brings people in, but when they see that the 30% statistic isn’t really the most valid statistic in the story (it may be factually correct, but it’s not the whole story) then people will claim you’re being misleading in your titles…

Mark, I have to agree with many comments on here. While I am a “GM fan,” I honestly try not to let that get in the way of objective discussion. Additionally, I don’t think a title should ever cater to any particular fan, even if it is me. I understand you only have so much space for a title but if the choice you’re left with is between a slightly less attractive, yet more precise title versus an attention-grabbing but readily misunderstood title, I think a responsible and unbiased journalist has a responsibility to go with the former.

You must know that only a percentage of your readers actually read the entire story. All too often I’ve seen comments that clearly indicate they have not read the story. If space is the issue, seriously, couldn’t something like “GM’s Latest 60-Day Money-Back Program Results” have worked? I don’t think you absolutely have to try to sum up the story in the title. When a journalist tries, it inevitably contains perspective which is not unbiased.

Not that I think you did, but too many journalists/editors today seemingly deliberately choose words to indoctrinate the casual reader that doesn’t dig for information. I think that inadvertently happened here. Nothing personal. I really enjoy your articles. I think I am more sensitive to this since the media’s appalling coverage of our last presidential election.

Let’s cover a few things here…for starters, let’s not forget that I was also the one that wrote the first story that explained that GM only had one return – which I also took the time to clearly explain was actually an exchange. So I obviously am not “out to smear GM” as some of you are implying.

Secondly, let’s take a look at who is really being misleading or not “precise” as some of you are incorrectly claiming here.

Can anyone name a single GM commercial that mentions (even in subtitle) that there is an alternate option of $500 in lieu of the “money-back guarantee?”

The answer is no. 99% of America is under the impression that no matter what if you buy a GM right now you get the ability o return it within 60 days- and they don’t learn otherwise until after the dealership sucks them in there and sits them down at the finance table.

Is THAT misleading? GM requires you visit a dealership for the truth… I require you click the link and read the first paragraph. Hmmm.

Now go to GM’s website, and click their “Money-back guarantee” link and this is ALL you find on that opening page:
“60-Day Satisfaction Guarantee:

We know that your new vehicle purchase is an important one. And we’re so certain you’ll love your new Chevy, Buick, GMC or Cadillac vehicle, we’re proud to offer our 60-day Satisfaction Guarantee. How does it work? Simple:

* When you purchase a new Chevy, Buick, GMC or Cadillac, keep it for 30 days.
* If you don’t absolutely love it after 30 days, you have 30 more days to bring it back.
* We’ll refund the actual price you paid to the participating dealer, less any rebates plus applicable sales tax.*

Have more questions? Check out the FAQs. Want more details? See the Details and Limitations.”

Note there is not a single mention of the $500 option – Is that misleading?

Now, for my final point, which 100% proves that my title is absolutely NOT misleading what so ever, if you go to the FAQ, #3, it reads, “Is there an alternative offer if the customer is not interested in the Satisfaction Guarantee program?

Yes. In lieu of the 60 day Satisfaction Guarantee, the customer can elect a $500 cash incentive at the time of vehicle purchase.”

Therefor, in GM’s OWN WORDS, if you opt for the $500 you are doing it in lieu of the money-back guarantee PROGRAM.

So, as the title states, nearly 30% of people that participated in the money-back guarantee program returned their vehicles.

I stand corrected on one thing (I am correcting my own post), you don’t have to read the whole article…or even click the link. The summary that is viewable from the main page has the breakdown of numbers in it as well. It’s all perfectly clear, accurate, and precise in the opening paragraph without even opening the article.

Everyone is spinning GM into being the bad guy here again when chances are most of these people who opted for the money-back guarantee were people who were on the fence anyway and maybe just wanted to give GM a shot, and ultimately didn’t. If you pass up $500 then obviously you’re skeptical about your purchase of the vehicle in the first place. Is choice so bad? It sounds more like GM “won over” 70% of buyers, rather than losing 30%. There, now the glass is half full.

Mark, in the history of misleading commercials from the auto industry, GM’s latest is completely honest relatively speaking. I don’t think there is much of a ‘controversy’ here to report on. First, the whole marketing campaign is just that, a marketing campaign. It certainly is not a helpful program for anyone. Purchasing a car is a very emotional, financial, and for some also stressful process. There’s a lot of thought and deliberation behind the purchase of a vehicle. Because of this, the only people that would be buying and returning are the same jerks who rent a car just to burn out the transmission. That $500 incentive is a joke. All of us on this site understand how incentives and the cliche ‘Let me check with my manager’ process works. If they didn’t offer the incentive they would have SECRETLY held that $500 back when the sales guy does the traditional check-with-the-manager to see if they’ll authorize the buyer’s offer. That would certainly be more of a back-handed approach.

I suggest doing a story on the jerk dealerships that like to advirtise offers like “Drive, push, tow, or drag your vehicle here and we’ll give you $4000 for trade in!!!” THAT is misleading.

Typical- don’t get me wrong… I am in no way out to prove GM was, or is dishonest. My point was purely that if people were going to claim I was being dishonest or misleading, how can you possibly not make the same claim towards the company that truly hid their agenda/details?

Mine was in the opening paragraph. Obviously I was right because no one has challenged my point.

When the first story I wrote broke, I had to contact a GM representative to even verify that aspect of the program – it wasn’t even on their site! I went out of my way to make sure I presented the truth (In GM’s favor) in its entirety… only to be accused of being misleading. Irony at its best!

Mark,

As a Chevy salesman, I don’t find your story misleading. The title was a bit, IF you just glanced at it and do not understand the word or meaning of ‘participate’. The casual reader will probably not understand that the program is an opt out/in deal that customers choose to either participate in or out of.

Typical:

As far as dealers ‘hiding’ the $500.00, we can not do that anymore. When you buy a new Chevy, from us at least, there are TWO incentive forms that the customer has to sign showing all rebates that were applied to the vehicled purchased. One for GM, one for our Corporate (Coggin). For us to pass GM audits and claim our rebate money, we have to have these signed disclosures in the customers file. The customer also has to sign a special form that explains the 60 day money back program and then decide if he wants the $500 rebate of the money back gaurentee. They have to sign it with what choice they want.

The old days of dealers being able to hide rebate money easily is mostly gone. I say mostly because there will always be some folks who think they can be greedy and bypass the system.

btw, Happy Thanksgiving to everyone Enjoy your special day with family and/or friends and loved ones!

Thanks for sharing that Bradley – and happy Thanksgiving to you too!

Mark, first off, thanks for your interactive nature. What a refreshing exchange. It is greatly appreciated and means a lot to know that you guys (or at the very least, you) are intrested in what your readers have to say on here. I hope that this whole discussion has not refelcted poorly on the article as it was a good one in my opinion. And you’re right, there is an accurate and sufficient summary next to the link but I fear too few people even read that much. The comments imply as much all too often.

I am a bit mystified by your comparison of a GM marketing advertisement and your news article. I believe there is a major difference in approach, intent and expected level of integrity. People (should) read ads with a degree of skepticism as something is being sold, whereas a news article is supposed to be nothing more than accurate and complete reporting of information; unless it’s an editorial. I do see a difference.

But again, great article. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

I second Psiclone’s comment, the response and dialog is enjoyed!

And thanks for the info bradleygt. It is not so much hiding the rebate but all the other shells you can hide the money under. Don’t get me wrong, you guys should make every penny you can. With that said, I am a huge fan of CarMax and their no-haggle pricing. At typical dealers you have the trade-in, the price of the vehicle, and the financing to recover or ‘hide’ dollars. Someone brings in a 2000 Cobalt with 180K miles on it and they want $5000 for trade when it really is worth $500. So you offer $2000 and recover the rest by only discounting the price of the car by $3000 instead of $4500. Or you tack on an extra point to the interest rate or a combination of both. If I am incorrect about any of this let me know. I am sure there is less to work with these days with plummeting prices but that is usually how it works.

I was no. 194 and returned an ebony 09 fully loaded Caddy CTS-V last week. I paid around $62K before CA state tax. First off, the sales process was the worst experience I’ve ever had from a dealer. They went from just take the car home tonight, we’ll take care of the financing and paperwork tomorrow to treating me like **** when I said I definitely wanted the Satisfaction guaranty. They had just assumed that I was opting out of the guaranty and filled out the contract with the opt out checked. After spending another couple hours at the dealer while they scrambled to figure out what to do. The sales manager said they hadn’t had one customer yet take the guaranty option – I thought who’s the bigger schmuck – me or his other octogenarian customers. So they tried getting me approved – I got declined. Its tough to get credit today. I have a 721 FICO, but I’m a real estate investor and own 10 investment properties. So I told the salesman, I’ll write a check but it would take me a couple days to move money from brokerage to checking account so that I could pay with a bank cashiers check. I had a cashiers check from one of my accounts for $40K. The salesman said that was fine, I could write a personal check for the balance – they did have a copy of my driver’s license and insurance info. Well so I go in 2 days later, and the sales manager wouldn’t accept my personal check – said I needed certified funds for the entire amount. Then 2 days later after I had good funds for another cashiers check, the sales manager insisted on taking my thumb print as well. I called bull **** on that, but he said that certified checks can be cancelled and my checks may not clear. I have been a victim of credit fraud before from someone at the cable company stealing my credit information. Finally I got the manager to agree to give me back the copy of my license with thumb print in a week. He basically was dick from the sales process to the inspection of the vehicle for the return.

I’ve had the car for 60 days and have put on about 3900 miles. Loved the car for the first 1000 miles, then around 3000 miles I noticed a few niggles about the car. Squeaks coming from the front dash. I loose real speaker enclosure which rattles when a any rock song comes on.

Also the radio will not play any songs from from my iphone, let alone allow me to transfer my mp3’s to the hard drive – probably a firmware upgrade, but I didn’t want to have to leave my car at the stealer for 1+ days while they try to figure out how to upgrade the radio’s operating system. Cadillac should have worked out the bugs of software before they released this car.

All in all, it cost me $900 (CA state licensing fee) to drive the car for 2 months and have the peace of mind that if I had buyer’s remorse, I could just return the car – like returning a flat screen to Costco. The $500 additional incentive doesn’t come into play if I am returning the car so I really didn’t lose that $500.

My last major two problems is that for a car that had a sticker of $68K, the V looks just like a $37K plain vanilla CTS. They actually made the the creases in the body metal sharper to distinguish from the CTS. However I think this B1 bomber look is dated and is too much of a reminiscent of an Escalade with chrome spinning dubs. I’ve already seen a similar car with 3,700 miles for sale around $52K with a CPO warranty to 100,000 miles. Thats the best deal – $10K less for depreciation and double the bumper to bumper warranty. Figure this car will depreciate to $40K next year with 10-15K miles. Thats the time to buy. In the meantime, I’m shopping for an 06 BMW M5 CPO. These are trading for around $45K with 30K miles. These were $90K cars when new. The styling and prestige of the BMW far surpasses the Caddy.

The last problem is that I see too many old white men driving the CTS – thats definitely a group I aspire to be a part of.