No surprise. Thats because GM builds **** vehicles. Even Lutz admits the Tundra is an amazing truck

Stupid consumers. They wouldn’t know a good pickup if it bit them on the ass.

GM seems to have one foot in the 21st century, with a fantastic new focus on good cars like Aura, G8, Astra, CTS, etc. But they also seem to have the other foot back in the 90s, where they just churn out more and more rebadged and refreshed trucks and expect those sales to carry them through the years. Wake up GM, the market is changing! Half of you is changing with it and the other is holding the whole company down. Right hand needs to talk to left hand here, seriously.

Yep, it pisses me off every time I look at a Tahoe, Yukon, or Escalade. There’s plenty of other cars but thats just a few. They’re all the same and thats what pisses me off the most. But other automakers do it too not just GM…

I won’t ever buy another GM truck. And their trucks are generally better than their cars in my experience. My 1998 GMC was trash. 10 years later, I really think (hope) they are getting better. It’s going to be a long time before I buy a GM anything. I’m not a fan of the style of the new pickups, but I like the new Suburban/Tahoe design.

Rode in and drove several variations of this newer design GM truck, both SUV and PU. All of them were very nice. Smooth, quiet. good ride and good power. The upper end Tahoe is very sweet. In the area I live, they appear to be selling well. Who knows.

I like both Ford and GM’s trucks better than I do Toyota when it comes to full-size. The American truck is iconic, and it would be a shame if they were to fall by the wayside.

maybe you haters dont realize high ass gas prices have a lot to do with it and the tundra aint selling either ive seen maybe three and i also thhink all pick up trucks are stupidly high priced 42 grand for a truck is dumb period

“Stupid consumers. They wouldn’t know a good pickup if it bit them on the ass.”

It’s people in management who have TOZO’s attitude that causes companies to die.

PrimeGTP, I would not pat GM on the back too fast for those rebadged Opels, anyone that has the last one GM brought over (Cadillac Catera) can tell you how wonderful they end up being in couple of years.

I drive a GM everyday and can say it is absolutely falling apart (interior/body) but the engine still runs like a sewing machine with only the generator and a half shaft needing to be replaced in 10 years which I think is pretty good but I think that is more the exception than the norm.

I have a 07 Tahoe LTZ and that thing is nothing short of awesome. Great people hauler, GREAT city ride on ****ty roads, absolutely awesome for road trips with your buddies and gear. No complaints, even the gas milleage is not bad at all for a big truck.

Jonstew,

Understandable concern referring to the Catera, but I do believe Opel has made great strides in quality. I have driven the Aura, and it is a fantastic car, driving almost identically to my GTP which is another Epsilon platform car. The GTP was more my taste in styling, but both are very nice rides.

Your description of your daily driver GM sounds exactly like typical 90s GM, a strong engine unfortunately encased in a bunch of sheet metal and plastic that is slowly unraveling itself.

The new Sierra/Silverado is a complete redisgn from the frame up, and not a refreshed version of an existing model. Next to the GM Models, the comptetion simply falls significantly short, as evidenced by GM’s 4% truck market share increase during the 1st quarter of 2007 (at the expense of Ford, Toyota and DCX - Sorry GM haters for noting some good news for GM). For example, the Tundra had to go back to the drawing board after falling short of the GMT900 interior quality(post mods the Tundra has still fallen short, and wallah a $3,000 Rebate on the Tundra out of the box); Secondly the Tundra has timing belt, give me a break, this is a PICKUP TRUCK, not an appliance that we frequently refer to as a Camry. I personally like SUV’s (Yukon Denali) but if I needed a pickup it would be an Extended Cab Sierra SLT 7 days a week, and twice on Sunday.

Toyota is offering HEAVY discounts on their trucks with cheap financing where I live. Their cars are deeply discounted also. Apparently, Toyota is subject to the same consumer demands as any company.

High gas prices are hurting sales of the entire full size pickup market, so fewer buyers chasing the same number of vehicles produced. Coupled with Dodge giving their Rams away practically for free with so many incentives, and Toyota heavily discounting the Tundra, which has also been falling short of sales expectations.

I don’t think anyone would say the old model GM trucks were better and the new ones are a mistake - it’s just that the market demand for the trucks in general is way down. There is a lot of noise in those sales numbers, and has nothing to do with the product itself.

First of all LLN, the quality of the editing in this story is piss poor!

But these trucks are UGLY..plain and simple. You can sell trucks on power, interior, ride quality or whatever, but most consumers are first attracted to good design.

Gas prices are a major concern to anyone purchasing a vehicle. Coupled with the trucks being over priced I’m, surprised that they can sell at all. How about setting the MSRP $3000 lower than giving a $3000 incentive or rebate?
This will look bad in a few months when GM reports their quarter nummbers.

you random jerk!

Plain and simple, people rarely jump into first year vehicles. Also their entire truck lineup was only recently expanded to HD pickups. I bet when you combine Silverado Classic and New Silverado for 2007 it is either a wash or a sales gain.

Tundra’s are just plain ugly, they should be paying us to take them off their hands. I have also heard of some reliability issues with the new Tundras circling around a part in the transmission that needs to be replaced on each Tundra. Maybe GM wasn’t so dumb to work out the bugs in their 6 speed before it went into mainstream production. Being more complex isn’t necessarily a good thing in the 4X4 truck world.

The Tundra is an “amazing truck”?!?!?!? I dont think so. Ugly yes, amazing no. Make that extremely ugly. GM does not build “**** vehicles”. Go check them out and you will see first hand.

Oh yeah heres a link to prove Tundra Trans issues
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/polls/20327-transmission-failure-poll/

GM is worse then I expected if they honestly thought this truck would save them.. I wonder what percentage of development funds go into the trucks relative to GM’s cars? probly well over 65% IMO

http://www.leftlanenews.com/gms-lutz-admits-new-toyota-tundra-very-very-very-well-executed.html

^ Would you rather hear Lutz brag about GM having the better truck? He’s was being humble.

Hands down, the new Silverado is the best of the bunch. Numerous trades have made that clear. But people will buy what they want. I think Toyota has finally made it to the point where domestic bias is no longer a big issue for them. They’ve proven their value, which they do have, and the public sees it. But for those that demand the best, Silverado is the only answer for a full size pickup.

NO SH!T they sell horribly. They are probably the worst looking GM trucks in recent memory. The fenders look cartoonishly exaggerated and the nose looks like someone stuck and air pump into the front end of a 1970 Chevy C10 and over inflated it, but worse. GM Failed with this truck, and thats just on looks, let alone performance. I think we are leaving the era of “Chevy and Ford Guys” and entering the age of heated debate between “Domestic and Toyota” guys. Whats more is Toyota builds their trucks in the US as well. So who is really “domestic and import?”

My Dad a die hard Chevy fan just bought an Infiniti. Times are changing and we don’t want to be screwed anymore!!! GM has gone Ghetto around here?

Hahaha surprise surprise! People don’t want full size trucks as much these days! And even if you were in the market for a truck, why in god’s name other than possibly price would you choose this over the new Tundra? Has anyone SEEN the new Tundra? It blows this **** out of the water!

Those idiots actually thought their pos trucks could compete with Ford’s elite pick ups. Give me a break. You think GM would try to at least make good looking pick ups. I mean come on all of GM’s trucks are ugly. Have you seen the new GMC Heavy duty trucks? Their practically trying to copy Ford’s F-350 lol. Those silly fruitcakes first try to copy the mustang (A.K.A. The Legend) now their trying to copy the F-350.

Tundra is still ugly no matter what angle you look at it. I haven’t accepted the Silverado yet.

Im still going to go with a American company I respect my country unlike the Toyota defectors =P

im just waiting for the 6-speed

Once again, no diesel = no thanks.

The trucks aren’t that bad of vehicles. The biggest issues I have with the newer ones is maneuverability; they are somewhat mammoth compared to the previous models. Their exhaust stinks something horrible too, IMO… but their styling is much enhanced (the base models look like poo on the inside but the upscale models look very nice).

The sales are low because of fuel prices.
The new GM trucks have improved styling, but with the Tundra you get Japanese levels of fuel economy.

Because the new trucks looked too similar to the models that they replaced. People can have more discounts on low mileage last generation models.

A 1976 Town Car can match a pickup truck.

A 1976 Town Car is pickup truck without a bed. It has a full frame, big V8, beefy transmission, and enough weight to tame any trailer attached to the rear end to haul stuff.

People that need to haul in the real world buy a heavy duty truck and avoid what pickup trucks are, a Friday night date crusier that sags to the axle when cargo is actually added to the bed. Too many commercials imply pickup trucks can do heavy truck work. Lies.

Pickups are bigger than cars, but not trucks.
The few numbers of people that need the extra ability of a pickup truck to tow their camper, boat or big trailer will still buy one, and sales numbers reflect this.

$3/gallon for something that a trailer can do? You can pull a trailer with a car or van getting 25 mpg during that time of the month you need to haul something.

GM knew the Tundra was going to be stiff competition. Originally, both trucks were being engineered to be released around the same time. GM knew that Toyota was bringing it this time…that the new Tundra would be right up there, perhaps as the best truck on the market.

That is why GM sped up the process and released the new Silverado early. I can believe this story, as I have hardly seen any Silverados. Tundras are all over the place here. I’m not saying that the Tundra is outselling the Silverado overall, but that is most definitely the case where I live.

“Stupid consumers. They wouldn’t know a good pickup if it bit them on the ass.”

People know what they want to spend their money on. I say stupid manufacturers for not giving it to them. That’s business, simplified: find something - whether goods or services - that people want, and market it to them. If they want crap, you’ll still make just as much money selling it as you would selling the good stuff. The key is SELLING IT.

I’m not saying GM trucks are crap though. I like ‘em. I think that with gas prices on the rise, most people just won’t buy trucks unless they really need them. From what I hear, all truck sales are down.

Actually, it is ALWAYS the customers respoonsibility to purchase and American truck. Those that don’t are just ignorant. Thing is, those ignorant fools are just a crop of people buying the Tundra because it’s “NEW”. Not better, just new. Once those people have wasted their money, who’s going to buy the Tundra?

Right. Nobody. General Motors rules here, you’re an idiot if you think otherwise.

it might be because the pickup fad is fading fast, or because meatheads are finaly realizing that no one but them thinks trucks are cool, or because they are just plain poorly built machines or beacuse…i don’t know…maybe…gas is almost 4 bucks a gallon. some retard told me the other day that his truck got pretty good milage at 16mpg! that’s pretty good? you know what…go ahead and buy your trucks because we all laugh at you and the world needs a laugh.

Lamborgini Z has a negative domestic comment. He sure knows his cars (and trucks).
The Tundra, F-150, Sierra/Silverado, Ram, and Titan, none of them are selling as well as they had once before.Just like SUV’S, they are no longer considered mainstream and cool like before.
The Tundra is a nice truck but it certainly has it’s styling issues, the front of the new Silverado almost looks like a smile. The new Sierra is one good looking truck though.
The domestics according to the mainstream media were supposed to be frightened by the last Tundra and when the Titan came out. I guess there was no need to be too frightened.
Go ahead Lambo Z, give me your insight. Ray Sinclair, say something irrelevant, you know something about the issues you had with your Used domestic from 1989. Not sure what part of California your in but I have not seen a whole lot of eitherthe Tundra or the new Silverado. Trucks just don’t sell anymore.

Haha I didn’t even read your post–too long, keep it up though man, it’s flattering that my words are so powerful hahaha

It’s called an opinion though, I’m allowed to have one just like anyone else is, keep that in mind, it’s a relatively basic concept

If the Tundra is so superior why did it place third behind the Titan and first place Silverado in Car & Driver? Since the Tundra wasn’t released in time for Motor Trend truck of the Year, they have since done a shootout between the two, once again the Silverado came out on top. Not to mention the fact that it recieved North American truck of the year. And yes the Tundra is built in America, but most of the profit returns to the land of the rising sun. Bottom-line, if you guys don’t know what you are talking about please shut up!

Lambo Z sorry to hurt your feelings. Your such an automotive expert I should leave you alone.

Japanese pickups are special-made for idiots.

Of course they don’t sell well, GM you ignorant fool! With Dodge’s ass-kicking I-6 diesel pumping out over 600 ft.lbs of torque, you’d need to build one hell of an engine to even compete with this King, let alone overtake it. GM, there’s still a lot of work that needs to be done!

MHW: In case you didn’t know…most automotive publications are utterly and completely biased in the favor of domestic autos, whenever they have the chance to give them a first place win..they do, even if its not deserved. I would know, I have subscriptions to Road & Track, Automobile, and Motor Trend, so don’t throw that **** at me.

And while some profits return to Japan, since it is built here, its construction is aiding in employing thousands of blue collar American workers, which in turn stimulates a higher standard of living, and in turn causes more spending which helps boost the U.S. economy.

(EDITED FOR LANGUAGE)

lambo z get a life: apparently I’m the one that hurt your feelings, i mean look at your id name haha, cry a little before picking that name out? did i offend you too much? and yeah, i am, i know.

Lambo, your theory doesn’t hold water. As far as your whole Domestic bias rant why did they then place Dodge 4th, and Ford 5th? And don’t forget that the Titan placed ahead of the Tundra, both Imports… You also can’t say it comes down to advertising dollars because I see Tundra adds splashed in every magazine I look at. The new Tundra is also the only full-size that didn’t achieve 5 stars in the governments latest crash tests. Why can’t you accept the fact that GM builds a kick A truck. I have had the pleasure of owning a Chevy Duramax for 92,000 trouble-free miles, I doubt you even own a truck. And I guarantee the Duramax will hand the 5.7 Tundra its butt in real world truck duties. Which brings me to my next point. 1c3d0g what planet are you living on??? The Chevy Duramax diesel has more torque and hp than both the Dodge and Ford diesels, and just for the record, Chevy has outsold Dodge for years.

I live in SoCal and I see F150’s 10 times more then any Japanese Trucks. I see waaay more new Silverado’s, and Sierra’s then new Tundra’s. Guy at my work bought a new Crewmax Tundra 5.7 and was mad when he gpt smoked by a co-workers Vortec Max lol.

I love the new GM trucks, and would buy one to replace my old one (10 years running with 150,000 miles no problems) if I had the money, but they are a little pricy. I would rather buy a Silverado, Ram, or Ford any day over the Toyota and Nissan just because the american trucks look so much better, and are built for anything.

ok, what GM (and ford as well) are going through at the moment is called “learning by pain”… unfortunately, both GM and Ford are rather stubborn… the cars they make are NOT the most sought for by the public anymore… people DID like big-ass trucks some years ago… today, they still like to think of trucks, but dont afford them, fuel-wise… so, unless gm or ford will feature a hybrid for sale, not just for show, or a car that uses no gas at all (100% e-car, hydrogen, anything…), the japs will be gaining ground…

looking forward to the day, ford and gm get that point… especially curious how much pain its gonna take them over and over…

Wow, what a comeback LamborginiZ. Is that the only one you have?
You did’nt offend me,if anything you make yourself look silly everytime you respond back to me. I like domestics and imports both, granted they both have cars I personally do not like and both have made bad decisions. Obviously the domestics made the most mistakes in the 70’s and 80’s and yes they became too dependent on SUV’s at the beginning of this decade. But for someone to bash every domestic regardless of what it is and see no wrong with anything import brands, mostly Toyota and Honda, is the best of everything is unrealistic at best and shows lack of knowledge on the subject.
Go ahead and respond back with your usual comment how you offend me and I use your name because of that. This will be my last response to your lack of knowledge of the automotive industry as a whole.
The main reason is due to the fact I don’t want to become like you and have nothing better to do then search a site looking to stir up controversy with your sheer ignorance.

As I said before, you are the smarter version of GMnumber1. Nothing to be proud of.
LamborginiZ, you would’nt even come close to a Lamborgini except maybe those posters in your bedroom at your Mom’s apartment.

Have a nice day.

Don’t worry, I don’t have any posters of Lamborghinis on my wall, though the Gallardo Supperlegera is my computer wall paper, does that count?

I dislike many domestic products as they lack quality construction and are infinitely inferior to their foreign competition, may that be competition coming from Japan, Korea, or Europe. GM#1, on the other hand, hates everything that isn’t made by GM, for the simple reason that they aren’t made by GM. My reasons are valid, and I’m not nearly as narrow minded, I don’t only support one automaker and hate every other one out there just for the hell of it, I dislike certain makes due to ****ty products and lame cost cutting, and I have no reservations in liking domestics if they are well made and quality vehicles. To say I bash all domestic cars is inaccurate and unrealistic, at best, I bash those that suck, and in reality, most do these days. However there are plenty of vehicles born and bred here in the U.S.A. that I do like, but the problem is, when stacked up to much of the foreign competition, they just don’t quite compare, even if they are pretty good on their own, like the new Silverado for instance. I’m aware that there are indeed problems with corporations like Toyota, but all in all, Toyota does a far better job convincing me that they deserve to be the #1 in the world as opposed to GM, and their product quality really does blow away garbage produced by domestics much of the time, like the Cobalt or Caliber, for example. Really all in all to compare me to GM#1 shows that you clearly don’t know me, or my views, well enough, GM#1 is a joker, he is a joke, he gets on here simply to rile people up, and plays the most ignorant fool around. I on the other hand, actually have views with plenty of logical reasoning to back them up, and I’m not nearly as narrow minded as you think. To put it relatively nicely, though, I’d appreciate it if you’d get off my god damn ass, it’s starting to get old, you don’t have to agree with what I say, but I’m no propaganda machine like GM#1,

(EDITED FOR LANGUAGE)

And really, if I didn’t offend you, you wouldn’t have written that last post, and wouldn’t be using my name, etc.

MHW: You’re allowed to say “ass” on here, don’t worry, I won’t tell anyone. Good points though, touche

no bias but i heard the gm line gets better fuel mileage than the tundra, then there is the 4 star crash results compared to the industries 5, the nissan in my book is more desireable than the tundra, and why does the toyota need the gm style yellow runninglights, i used to be able to tell a gm vehicle in the rearveiw mirror but toyota has the same look now too, go nissan.

The main problem is that these new trucks are not good looking from the outside. They’re great trucks with all sorts of new toys on them like URPA and Nav (neither was on the 800 pickup). That said, though, I think the 800 exterior styling was better. I just can’t get used to the new look–GMC or Chevy. The HD models with the D’Max are outrageously priced, too. My friend’s 04 800 is a decked out crew cab w/the D’Max, and it costs about the same price as the new truck with the diesel & base trim. I know it’s been a few years and prices change, but…not impressing me much. BTW…have you seen the tailpipe on the D’Max? It’s HUGE. It looks ridiculous on the truck…almost like an aftermarket “adder”. Ugh!

MHW, I agree that magazines are biased based upon how things are suppose to be. In your own article that you describe, Nissan came in # 2. Toyota third with Ford and Dodge coming in behind. The F 150 and Titan debuted the same year. The F 150 took truck of the year, if I recall, or at least beat out the Titan when they were new with regards to Motortrend. Nothing has changed much between these two trucks since their debut and yet the Titan has passed the Ford in this study.

Also, the Motortrend comparison between the BMW 3 series and the G35 is an absolute joke. Had Motortrend NOT measured every category out, then I could understand them naming the BMW the better car. But they did. The BMW beat out the G35 in 2 or 3 of the 40 or so categories…it couldn’t have been more one-sided….and yet we all know that for some reason, the BMW MUST remain the benchmark…Magazines don’t always call it straight. There was even a funny line that read something like the Infiniti is the better package, but the BMW is a better car. WTF? I happen to believe a lot of it could be a financial (i.e. advertising revenue) bias.

yeah ray it made no sense to me neither^^^

My point was simple, the Silverado is a much better truck than some are giving it credit. As far as magazine bias I would say they have been of the Asian persuasion for some time, but everyone has their own interpretation.

MHW i agree with you, the new 900 is way better than people realize, the interior is also a huge improvement over the last one also.

Ray Sinclair: Have you driven both the new G35 and the 335i? I have. On paper, the G35 seems identical, but in real world enthusiast driving, the BMW has a certain feeling to it that the Infiniti doesn’t, the BMW feels more connected to the road, more interactive, and less simulated. It’s something that’s difficult to put into a subjective critical category, but it certainly matters when you drive, and the BMW is far more fun to drive.

Yes, I have driven both the new G35 and BMW 335i, and I disagree with you completely. To me, the BMW feels more isolated from the road. I believe the G35 is more fun to drive.

The G35 has a certain feeling to the acceleration…It pulls like a Chevelle I used to have.

I think the unraveling part is what amazes me most about GM products. What many people I have talked to have said that GM products like the new Silverado which is getting slower sales in only its first year is that they find alot of problems with GM vehicles especially their Truck line. Your an idiot to give GM your money a second time around that is after experiencing the number of Breakdowns they are known for.

What I think GM should seriouly do is to outsource its Truck engines to either Ford or Toyota, because
either Ford and Toyota both manufacture nearly indestructible Truck motors.

I think the 100,000 mile warranty GM has will cover the most problems with the new engine that the department failed to catch. I would just like to say to those unfortunate enough to have bought a New Pickup from GM recently and my advice is to try and sell it before it reaches 100K that way your covered. That is before the Truck Unravels and totally falls apart.

Ray Sinclair: Interesting, just goes to show everyone has different perceptions of these things. I guess we can just be thankful that we have both of those great machines to choose from, at least there’s no shortage of awesome performance in this class

Toyota Tundra is much much much better than GM’s latest Crap they call a Pickup Truck. They might as well drive it to the Junk yard where all GM products belong Grind them up and put them in the clapper! Melt it down give the steel to someone who know how to build an engine and Truck like Toyota.