way to burst Gm’s bubble, happy with yourselves

Very impressive, if it shakes out. Not quite apples to apples with the Volt due to how far you can drive it in one outing, but impressive nonetheless. Still looks like a turd, though.

oh no, it’s marketing department vs marketing department facing off in a thunderdome of fictional mpg numbers…

This is really dumb.

two cars enter, one car leave

Let the war begin. My guess is at the end GM will win. Matbe not with the Volt, but I’m sure they got something cooking after the Volt.

Should be able to apply a virtual mpg figure to electric cars based on the price of gas.

If a gallon of gas costs $3, then just work out how far the Nissan Leaf will travel on $3 worth of electricity. If that just happens to be 367 miles then it is fair to say it will achieve 367mpg.

At least this allows consumers to compare the running costs of an electric car with a car that runs on gasoline.

Good for you Nissan, now sit down and be quite in class!

GM will come out with their new vehicle, the Leaf Blower.

This is stupid. I like Nissan, but this antic and the GT-R crap is very unsettling.

Where is Mel Gibson and Tina Turner when you need them?

@ beatusmongous-
The ” leaf blower” LMFAO!! that was funny.

I would buy a Nissan……!!

And Nissan will come up a Volt Dischager to counter.

OK, I guess we can assume the Nissan has a 367 mile range on a charge then, right??? right??? No? so I guess it really cannot get 367 MPG since it cannot go 367 miles. What is the range of the Nissan?

I think we have already said the Volt will have at least a 230 mile range.

The Nissan will meet the daily needs of most consumers, however it will not meet the yearly needs of most consumers. Most people do need to drive longer distances sometime/often.

Hey Nissan, my mountain bike has infinit mpg! Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Elvio, how about the Nissan Volt Resistor?

I like the LEAF, but Nissan is acting like that annoying friend that always talked about how he had better stuff than you did.

can you imagine if you had a volt and a LEAF in the driveway? lol cool!

Thinking about the story behind this really makes you laugh. It’s actually going to hurt Nissan for pulling this BS because it’s not the same thing as the Volt. Volt is extended range and can be used for any distance, not short trips. Whoever put that out is probably going to be fired from the backlash.

Genesis, THAT would be awesome! LEAF for my drive to work, and Volt for my wife and kids and road trips.

However, I’d want a Viper in the garage or something like that, too.

Yeah, you’re pretty fancy there Leaf, but without ever hitting the pump how am I going to get the car wash discount?

who drives 367 miles in a day?, you know it will be alot cheaper than the volt this is a all around winner expect nissan stock to jump after they launch this baby. plus they teaming up with the government expect it to replace all the government vehicle (pius)..in nyc they already using the altima for cop cars.

I guess this goes without saying, the EPA needs to come up with a better way to rate the “economy” of EVs.

no matter who is right or how they have come up with the figures, the new cafe regulations that the car companies were moaning about in the future will be met many years ahead of schedule. lets see, each division has to average 35mpg, and each will have a couple models that average in the 100’s of mpgs. well, that hard to reach hurdle is pretty much gone already. let the muscle car wars go crazy!

So far the experience of 100% electric cars has been pretty dismal (except for a select few consumers) as far as the normal consumer wants. However it does look like there is a market for hybrids. I doubt there will be much more than a niche market for this electric car with the tech available today.

Yay… another pointless war against a certain car specification! I thought the horsepower wars were stupid, now we have the MPG wars!

It doesn’t matter who wins out in the end, I still wouldn’t buy an EV due to the fact that these electric cars really don’t provide much incentive for most people to go out and get one. If the Tesla Roadster didn’t cost $100k to buy, I would go out and buy one since it’s the only EV car that attracts my attention.

How about pounds of CO2 emitted based pounds of coal burned per mile? kwh per mile? Either would make a lot more sense than fixing a “mpg” of gasloine figure to a car that uses none!!!

BTW, by my calculation, the LEAF gets 1244 miles per milliounce of enriched plutonium, whereas that Volt only gets 779. Just to put it into perspective. The Chevrolet Leaf Blower will get over 1500, but the Nissan Voltage Arrestor will get like 1800. Booyah!

LMAO, ZFender and NetGuru.

NetGuru actually brings up a good point: In my city, it’s illegal for a person to wash his or her car in his or her driveway. We have to go to car washes, and we definitely won’t be getting discounts. It also might be pretty scary to drive an EV through flooded streets caused by our September monsoons.

Good for Nissan indeed, now where the hell is the Volt? it seems overpriced compared to this.

I got a ride in a Mini Cooper electric vehicle the other day – it was pretty cool, nice thrust, no engine noise at all. Of course I think they ought to pipe in a healthy V8 rumble through the car stereo, but that’s me. The driver told me the range is 120 miles, and the battery packs take up the whole back seat. From what I read in the Volt article, a charge doesn’t cost all that much. So maybe I want to change my mind about the prospect of an all electric/ plug in hybrid being a feasible option for the general public.

Maybe…

MPG? Miles per gallon of what? Gallons of Bull$hit? Shift expectations

If it’s 100% electric, than there wouldn’t be any gallons of fuel, meaning the term “mpg” needs to be revamped for the EV Revolution…

I know how they could measure mpg for EV’s.
If you take the auto industry standard, for the model year, say 23 mpg, then see how many watts it takes the average EV to go 23 miles. the number of watts used will be equivalent to 1 mpg for that year.
I think that is right.

beatusmongous – illegal to wash your own car? Where the heck do you live? USSR?

Las Vegas, NV. It’s due to heavy water conservation rules, and the fines can be pretty steep.

electric vehicles should be rated primarily in range with kilowatts/mile as an efficency standard. because they’re the most important.

the reason the volt will be better than the leaf in spite of it getting less range on battery is because it can be a car for long or short trips where as a pure electric vehicle can only be a to/from work appliance(without a massive infrastructure overhaul).

Actually, we can do it, but we have to use special sprayers or a positive shut off valve on the hose so that no water goes into the street, and we can only do it during the cooler times once a week. Here’s the waste restrictions: http://www.snwa.com/html/drought_restrictions_waste.html

i thought in vegas you washed your cars with the tears of homeowners who are upside down on their loans…

too soon?

We could have, LeftWing, but they all ran back to Mexico.

Looks like like GM was the at-some-point-in-the-future leader in fuel economy for……..8 hours?
Congrats!
Let’s increase ad spending indefinitely!
DrFill

I think the last sentence says it best. How can a pure electric get an EPA rating which is (at this moment only) a measure of fuel efficiency. I think its due time for a rating of how efficient an EV uses its chemical energy instead of adjusting the standard mpg.

Hey….I think GM should take down the ad from the Leftlane Sponsor….it’s not that special anymore….Nissan…you should be the one put the ad there!

Wow, that is very impressive. Good job Nissan. There is nothing wrong with 2nd place GM.

Don’t forget,with the ****ty Leaf,you have to lease the battery,with NO option to purchase and if you can buy the battery,it will cost more then the Volt.

It’s the first time in this forum i feel an overwhelming need to laugh at someone and make a complete fool of him!! But i won’t.
It’s pretty obvious that your american pride took a good hit, with these news, as most comments for Volt’s 230mpg rating were in Gm’s favor. But for me (and i’m not american) nissan’s statement just demostrated how easy it was to expose Gm’s unrealistic statement. It didn’t came as a surprise, someone would eventually use the same sort of missleading calculation that Gm used to come up with a better number than the Volt’s. But the speed of the response! Amazing!
By the way. Both Leaf and Volt are using electricity coming from their batteries. The most enviromental friendly car is the one that uses the most economical technique to produce the electricity that charges those battaries. It’s more likely for a full electic to achieve that as electricity comes from large purpose built facilities rather than a mobile engine. Never the less, Volt is lot more of a technological achievement as it’s complexity is lot greater.

Greek, GM did not come up with the “calculation” to get 230. It is from the EPA formula.

Just read the Leaf will go up to 100 miles on one charge. Better than I thought it would do. So for an around city vehicle it would be a good choice for a go to work car or 2nd family vehicle.

Watts/mile makes more sense for EV’s, but not many will be able to do the conversion to compare to mile/gallon.

dollars/mile based on current fuel and electricity rates would get you close enough.

CO2/mile won’t work for EV’s. Folks who recharge at home with solar/wind compared to coal power plant.

oops, I mean miles/watt or dollar or CO2.

easiest way is to convert to mpg. Keep it simple for the customer and what they are used to. At least for the short term while we convert over to electric.

23 mpg vs. 230 mpg (both city) is easy for anyone who has driven before know that the 230 is much better. And hopefully they can also use the 30 mpg vs. 50 mpg (highway) to decide if the extra cost of the car is worth the savings in energy cost with the way they drive. Both are calculated on the energy used.

dollars/mile is also a correct way of doing it but energy cost varies so widely from location to location and now vs. future.

But with the MPG method should include some education on how to find your energy cost and how to calculate the total cost to consumer.

Then again the dollars per mile would also work but perhaps there would be some location / education on where the consumer can get their latest cost. Gas price is easy but I doubt many would know how much they are paying for electric.

100% Electric… where do you think 100% of the electricity comes from?

Just because I’M not burning it, doesn’t mean its not being burned…

I’m surprised at how people are making a direct comparison on these cars and saying that one is better than the other because of MPG. It is not a direct comparison. One has a 100 mile range. Just try topping off on electricity in the morning and going 367 miles (Kudos, carstuff). Ain’t gonna happen. For around town, yes, it’ll work. For any trips over 50 miles each way, forget it. You’re dead in the water. And 50 miles ain’t that far folks. Most people enjoy the freedom of mobility when driving a car and I’m not sure they will like the constraints that this car could place on people. If you have a very scheduled life and know distances that you will travel and it never changes much, then this car will work. However, if you are like most people and take an occasional trip to the country or want to hit the road every once in a while….well, good luck to ya. Better bring along some Duracells…or get a jump from someone driving a Volt.

I can’t wait ’til these come out, it’s going to be fantastic to have a more affordable all-electric vehicle on the roads.

Not to say that I want to drive one, or even touch one with a ten foot pole, but I am going to love to see all the electric cars stopped on the side of the highway because they thought they could make it to the next town. It’s going to be hilarious.

carstuff, 230mpg in city is still a lie.
Want something reliable and easy? Fill up a completely empty tank, with a precise volume of fuel, and run the car until it stops. A simple division will give a good result. The battery’s supplies won’t make a great difference this way, providing a reasonable price for mileage.
For the electrics there could be used, mileage per hour of charge. Once again, fully charge the bateries and run the car until it stops. Divide Total mileage with hour of full charge and you’re off!

For MPG, they should simply measure how far the car goes before it burns exactly one gallon of gasoline. The Volt wouldn’t be anywhere near 230mpg, but it wouldn’t even have to join the game until 40 miles in. It would still kill a lot of ass, but wouldn’t be as misleading as 230mpg sounds.

I’ve thought about it, raven, and i realise that it wouldn’t be easy to define (precisely) when there is only one gallon left, so that the test is stopped. It would be lot harder than leaving the car run out of gas, completelly.

Nevermind. I just finished reading the article.

The leaf can not be compared to the Volt in any way except that they both can run on an electric mode.
The problem with the leaf is you are very limited to where you can go. If your the type of person that only travels to the next couple of cities over ( depending on where you live ) then you are ok. I live in San Diego and if I want to take a drive to LA in the leaf I’m fu*ked. I’ll make it a little over half way and I’ll be stuck on the side of the road. How do I get a charge from there?
With the Volt I can take that same drive and not have to even think about it home and back, no problem.
So the Volt wins based on the fact that I can get more distance out of it and only have to go through a few gallons of gass to do it, but I never get stuck anywhere.

Although it just marketing ploy…

I can see it now that, Toyota and Honda will say to this effect. “_(eneter model here_ get 400 mpg, that better than Nissan Leaf EV and the Chevy Volt.

Hey Nissan. I don’t care if your limp Leaf got 500 MPG, i wouldn’t allow that Fugly Foo Foo POS anywhere near our driveway. Okay I feel better now

They need to tell us how many miles/KWh for EV’s. Then the conversion to miles/dollar is simple.

Of course the price for a KWh is regional. After taxes and everything it’s about 10 cents/KWh in my neck of the woods.

Left is not meant for mountain people, ie. from Denver, to driver because there is no electricity in the mountain.

oops…LEAF….

Everyone keeps forgetting that this car isn’t meant to be a primary car. It’s meant as a secondary car, to be coupled with something like an Armada or a Quest for the family trips. The LEAF for me would be my daily driver, limited to driving to and from work, and a few trips to the store for groceries. My Quest would be my family car, the one that my wife uses to take the kids to school and the one we use to go to L.A. with. How can the LEAF limit you if you have another car to travel with? If you are limiting yourself to one car, don’t get a LEAF. It would be a poor choice. But if you can have a second car, the LEAF is a good choice.

Fordman, there has only been speculation and talks about the leasing of battery packs. Although you could be right, I wouldn’t state it as fact until Nissan comes out and says it. They’ve only said they would consider it, but they have never said they are doing that for sure.

I’m sure you’ve all heard of hp wars, well,
LET THE EV WARS BEGIN
this american v. japanese battle will insure that you can never drive a real car without being embarrassed again!

To DrFill who submitted a post about GM only being a leader in fuel economy by about 8 hrs..you really need to get the facts straight! GM leased the EV1 in 1996 only in California. This was an all electric vehicle with zero emissions. Toyota and I believe Honda leased electric vehicles soon after. this car was badged by the SATURN brand. it was a big success in California. when the Bush admnistration came into office in 2000, the car was destroyed and replaced by the hummer. GM saw a market in demand of big suvs and there was no room for electric vehicles. this car was capable of going over a 100 miles on a single charge and speeds of up to 85mph. gm took all of the ev1’s back they leased and would not release or sale a single one to anyone. they were all crushed right along with Toyota’s electric rav 4. they their was even a boycott for the remaining some 70 ev1’s, and GM was offered some 1.7 million dollars to prevent the cars from being destroyed. GM refused the money. I bet they wouldn’t refuse it now. How ironic is it that the hummer replaced the EV1, and now the Chevy volt replaced the hummer. check out the documentary: “who killed the electric car” and google saturn ev1

You’ve got to love the “Zero Emissions” concept. It essentially means instead of polluting while you drive, you’re polluting when you’re parked.

Eliviosa
Denver is not in the mountains, it is about 1.5 hrs away.
There is quite a bit of electricity because we have lots of solar, a nuclear power plant, and we get coal from the mountains. Where do you think most coal for the flyover states comes from? That’s right, the rocky mtns a$$hole.

Not that i’d ever want to drive the leaf.

Remember that you must measure electricity in what amounts to work/time known as watt hours, or more commonly kilowatt hours. Saying a car gets x watts/mile is like saying your car gets 20 minutes to a gallon. That doesn’t really tell you everything you need to know. Electric Vehicle Efficiency should be accurately measured in “Kilo(for scale)Watt Hours per Mile”, or rather, an amount of work, over time, then put that over distance.

Oh and obviously I think there should be two ratings for extended range evs that operate in two distinct modes like the Volt because you can choose not to use gas like a dedicated EV, or you can choose to use only gas and run it like a more typical hybrid.