Again, in today’s world who doesn’t run the risk of recalls, no matter what they sell?

Is it all crankshafts?
has Nissan killed anybody?
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_7507793?source=most_viewed

So what else is new?

I wouldn’t treat my dick that bad

Crankshaft sensors are on the fragile end of the list of engine components, not exactly surprising. This is one of those business-as-usual recalls that are part of being an auto manufacturer. Just as in the GM thread, it’d be stupid to criticize Nissan over something like this.

I notice silence from the GM-hating peanut gallery, though.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, you guys are cracking me up, they all talked crap about gm.
anyways my 2000 nissan had a recall for the same problem a few years back, something to do with the boot on the sensor, never had any prpblems at all, took it in for an oil change and they fixed it.
maybe gm and nissan had the same supplier?

CTS: that’s probably the case

This thread is dedicated to all the hopeless individuals who are currently on the ‘GM recalls 90,000 cars’ thread that are mindlessly bitching about GM being the worst car company ever for recalling their 6 year old trucks, thinking they have proven their point.

Haha yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if they did have the same supplier. It’s funny that we’re talking about Nissan and GM’s crankshaft sensors, because after only having my Cobalt SS/SC for 6 months my crankshaft sensor went out on me and I was in the middle of rush hour traffic. Car dying in the middle of rush hour =’d me not happy. Just hope no one has been in any accidents as a result but yeah it happened to me while cruising in medium traffic doing 50mph.

ok 90,000 recalls or 650,000 recalls take your pick.

now only if they’d do something about our 3.5 vq v6 oil burning issue…

“Nissan has announced the recall of 650,000 cars”………..and the crushers are working overtime.

Nissin = junk anyway…who cares. If you are dumb enough to buy one, you deserve it.

Nissan is a French company unlike Honda and Toyota. Renault owns them Not truly Japanese.

Wrong again 1115. Nissan and Renault are in a joint agreement where Renault owns a certain percentage of Nissan stock, and Nissan owns a certain percent of Renault stock. Nissan IS a Japanese company, has research facilities in Japan and conducts most of its main operations in Japan: basically, Nissan operates exactly like Toyonda.

But seriously? Is that your excuse? That Nissan is a Japanese company therefore this recall does not matter???? You seem to be getting less intelligent by the day.

The typical anit-domestic mantra is that

…. domestic recalls are proof that the domestics produce crap,
…. foreign recalls are proof that the foreign makes are committed to quality.

I honestly am on the side of “any good manufacturer will have recalls here and there” but since I also like the underdog it is fun to beat up on import humpers when their beloved delusions of perfection are shattered by reality.

‘1115′ is a ****ing retarded import monkey who praises the TSX … ****ing loser.

Nissan is a “French company”, um OK. lmao! I also hear that KFC is really a Swedish company since my neighbors brother-in-law has an aunt that now lives in Sweden that is a relative of the Sanders family!!!

This is an interesting article, I own one of these nissans (2004 SE-R spec-v, thus the name…) anyway, they sent the recall notice for this at least 2 months ago, if not more. I haven’t taken mine in yet. (it seems to run fine and sometimes mechanics just make things worse!) but maybe this is to actually replace the sensor, the previous recall was just to re-program the computer.

At least Im consistent unlike yourself who says Toyota is number one or GM is number one depending on the arguement. When I cite japanese companies I always use Honda and Toyota You have never heard me use Nissan bc they are Renault No excuses like yourself and Impulsive. Im just comfortable that I make the correct decision by going with Honda Products
GM Ford and Chrysler suck btw
Ha

If MHW s aunt lives in Sweden you should go visit her or whatever you said
Renault bought Nissan bc Nissan was bankrupt. Nissan has been French since 1999. WHen we post you use “Toyonda” no ToyissanOnda”
Still consistent unlike you and the domestic dick riders
Either way it doesnt matter bc the track record of Nissan although not nearly as good as the real Japanese copmpanies Honda and Toyota is still better than GM GM has recalled over 1 MILLION cars. The roof doestn fly off on the new Z
Like I said

Listen closely you little chodemunchers – a recall is no big deal, so get your panties out of the knots they’re in.

NO BIG ****ING DEAL. As you can see, everyone from GM to Toyota recalls, so move along homos. Find another **** to smoke.

it’s always bad to quote wikipedia, but let’s see if this can shut 1115 up:

“n the late 20th century, with Nissan facing severe financial difficulties, Nissan entered an alliance with Renault S.A. of France.

Signed on March 27, 1999, the Renault-Nissan Alliance is the first of its kind involving a Japanese and a French company, each with its own distinct corporate culture and brand identity. The same year, Renault appointed its own Chief Operating Officer, the Brazilian-born Carlos Ghosn (of Lebanese descent), as Chief Operating Officer of Nissan and took a 22.5% stake in Nissan Diesel. Later that year, Nissan fired its top Japanese executives.

The Renault-Nissan Alliance is a unique group of two global companies linked by cross-shareholding, with Renault holding 44.3% of Nissan shares, while Nissan holds 15% of Renault shares.”

Oh 1115, your are so funny, you just crack me up.

LMFAO…well Nissan was always known as a POS manufacturer, so recalling this many vehicles doesn’t surprise anyone here.

Shut me up Probably wont happen bc like I said and like you say “Toyonda” are the Japanese companies
GM Ford and Chrysler make more pos and have lower resale, than Nissan Lets not get it twisted here people it would take 20 plus years of recalls even by Nissan to be as unreliable as the American car companies.
Compare resales and reviews with GM vs Nissan and see which car is worth more
Lets not forget about the GM recalls either Not the recent one but the MILLIONS of cars they recalled over the last 3 years and for things like the roof flying off the Vette
Japanese build superior vehicles even the French Japanese and quoting wikipedia ? Hmm I have you desperate trying to find something anything to try and make a decent comeback lol

wow like we didnt see that coming..

no, 1115…because the text I quoted on wikipedia is the same one you’ll find on nissan official site, but LLN deleted my post.
http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/COMPANY/ALLIANCE/BASICS/index.html

Signed on March 27, 1999, the Renault-Nissan Alliance is the first of its kind involving a Japanese and a French company, each with its own distinct corporate culture and brand identity. Both companies share a single joint strategy of profitable growth and a community of interests. To promote this shared objective, the Renault-Nissan Alliance set up joint project structures as early as June 1999 covering most of both companie’s activities.

STRUCTURE OF THE ALLIANCE

Renault hold a 44.3% stake in Nissan, while Nissan owns 15% of Renault shares. Each company has a direct interest in the results of its partner.

And….make a comeback? I never reply your comments, you should read, at least, who’s writing the things you reply to. I like Infiniti and Lexus (Infiniti a little more), but you sound just as stupid as GMRules, GM#1, and GMSales.

Let me start by saying I agree with Syrax that 1115 almost always sounds about as whacked as GMSales and those other closed minded morons, be they pro-domestic, pro-Japanese, or pro-German/European.

But to be fair, Syrax, according to the wikipedia entry above, “Renault appointed its own Chief Operating Officer, the Brazilian-born Carlos Ghosn, as Chief Operating Officer of Nissan” which tends to to lend credence to 1115’s contention of a Renault-dominated (or French-dominated) alliance as opposed to a true independent alliance. I’m mostly pointing to the concept of Renault appointing Nissan’s COO, which implies that they are telling Nissan what to do, hence a lopsided alliance as opposed to a balanced, equal partnership.

To be fair, even if this were the case, Renault via Ghosn saved Nissan, as opposed to Mercedes which screwed up Chrysler big time.

yeah, the full text you can read on the link:

MANAGEMENT STRUCTURES AND GOVERNANCE OF THE ALLIANCE

To define a common strategy and manage synergies, an Alliance strategic management company, Renault-Nissan bv*1, was founded on March 28, 2002. Renault-Nissan bv is jointly and equally owned by Renault and Nissan and hosts the Alliance Board, which met for the first time on May 29, 2002, and holds up to ten meetings a year.

Wow nissan! thats a huge amount of recalls for a company that doesn’t sell that many vehicles.

happy turkey day guys drive safe

Let ME shut you up 1115

Your best argument seems to be that I use (and others) the ‘Toyonda’ portmanteau because I am referring to Toyoda and Honda. These two companies are the largest Japanese automakers and I constantly talk about them because you use them as a benchmark of greatness or whatever to try to prove that GM is ‘inferior’. They are NOT great like you say, but they are GM’s main competitors (Honda is actually big than Ford at this point) so that is why I use them all the time. I use them to refer SPECIFICALLY to GM’s main Jap competition. Just because I don’t include Nissan in the ‘Toyonda’ portmanteau does not mean they are not part of the Japanese auto industry. Only a retard would think that – I mean, by that logic, that would mean that Mazda, Suzuki, Mitsubishi, and so on are also not part of the Japanese industry which of course is not true. To recap: when referring to GM’s main Jap competition I use ‘Toyonda’, and when referring to the Jap auto industry as a whole I say something like “Jap cars” or “Jap crap”.

It has already been proven that, like I said, Nissan and Renault are two seperate brands with their own “global identity and culture” that own eachother through cross-shareholding. That is basically what I said in my first post about this a long time ago, but now Syrax backed me up with the evidence plus he gave us the exact numbers of shares each company owns from the other (I couldn’t remember those percentages)

1115, your arguements are so old that they are getting repulsive!

Being a mechanic you will learn that ALL cars do break, especially american cars, they just keep coming back

MHW, your wife is repulsive!
Anytime a company mixes Like the case with Nissan and Renault the company that was the superior is ruined. MB and Chrysler notice how MB’s build quality and reliability went down by mixing with the american car co Ford and Mazda Mazda’s finding themselves now and making a decent product but they have to get rid of the Ford DNA and they will be better off. I will say that if Renault didnt come in and save nissan they wouldnt be here but Nissan is a Jap French company and Toyota and Honda are the superior Japanese brand and you dont have to like it but you have to accept it
GM sucks Ford sucks Chrylser sucks Commo sucks MHW and JJT suck bc they all love american cars
Happy T day Look up your history

It is incredible how I just defeated ALL of your points 1115, yet you keep talking as if I nobody said anything.

I will just assume that you concede to me your idiotic point that because Nissan wasn’t part of my ‘Toyonda’ portmanteau, they are not Japanese. I will also assume that you will concede to me your other idiotic point that Renault owns Nissan when in fact they do not. Lastly, I assume that you understand that brands like Mazda, Suzuki, and Mitsubishi are Japanese companies (Ford owns only a 1/3 stake in Mazda).

Now, has it ever occurred to you that the more powerful company in mergers like DaimlerChrysler is the one in control? Daimler Benz raped Chrysler because they did not allow them to properly compete because they were afraid that Chrysler would somehow damage Mercedes sales. The point is, Chrysler was reasonably healthy in 1997 and when they got away from Benz, they were and are near bankruptcy. Your hate of everything American is what leads you to say that Benz quality is down because Chrysler brought them down when in REALITY DaimlerBenz was the more powerful company in the merger and they were the ones who brought Chrysler down.

Nissan is a Japanese company but because you have realized that they suck, you are trying to pass them off as a non-Japanese company because if Nissan is Jap (and they are), that would destroy your fairytale wonderland of “Japanese cars are the best”.

Mazda3 – Ford Focus
Mazda5 – Ford CMAX
Mazda6 – Ford Fusion
Mazda CX7 – Ford Edge
Mazda CX9 – Ford Edge
Mazda Tribute – Ford Escape
Mazda B-series – Ford Ranger

If it wasn’t for Ford, Mazda would have 2 whole cars to sell. The MX5 for Girls and older men. And the RX8 a good looking, under performing gas guzzler. So if Mazda got rid of the Ford DNA, Mazda would be toast.

All the cars they recalled are crap anyway

gbb: nissin’s is the best ramen out there,and Nissans are not crap.

R-Head:good characterization of the Fluffer’s BS

Impulsive “‘1115′ is a ****ing retarded import monkey who praises the TSX … ****ing loser.’

that would be dead accurate,if you replaced “****ing” with “woefully celibate.”

1115: Correct decision for your purposes. Not mine. I can’t compare the only thing that really matters– real-life experience — but all the Nissan owners I’ve known were pleased with their cars. Let’s call them good enough

“MHW” your wife is repulsive.” You probably find ALL women repulsive!

commodore: nothing will shut 1115 up, until it’s time for him to go back to work.

1115: you suck because you’re paid to.

As for me “loving american cars,” that’s a gross mischaracterization of my attitude. I love cars from around the world, even some from Japan. Then, there are cars like the sebring and New Taurus that I’d just as soon go away.

happy Thanksgiving!

Happy Thanksgiving to you too!!!

What the **** is up with LLN? Where are today’s feeds?!

I know, not a thing all day. Surely something happened today.

Go to Wikipedia and look up the article where Honda and Toyota are owned or share their company with the French
Nissan is a French company they were bailed out of bankruptcy by Renault and Renault is their owner. I concede nothing
What you need to finally admit is that Japanese cars “Toyonda” are far superior to GM and Ford.
I said they were French weeks ago and you askjed me why. Its bc Renault owns themWhen Nissan has 20 plus years of making crap and recalls then they will be as unreliable as the American car co’s
GM sucks no Nissan even though the french own them

Only the women ( I use that loosely) you date JJT

For once we can agree LP640 – all Nissans recalled – like the Altima – are pretty much crap.

JJT – you are right, nothing will shut him up except work. And lucky for him, today is one of 1115’s days off! So he will be preaching to us all day. Did you notice how he kept posting after I defeated all his arguments? And he didn’t just keep posting, he basically posted the exact same thing as if no one had said anything to him. That gives new meaning to “in his own little world”.

Deanster – I guess no feeds during Thanksgiving or weekends. By the way, if you want your old username back, you can try logging back in again. I almost got a new account because I couldn’t log on wit mine, but they seem to have fixed that

johnnycat – news for today seems to be stuff about how the UAW will manage VEBA, Forbes annoucing that the 5 ‘biggest losers’ (worst cars) are 5 Chrysler vehicles (Sebring, Nitro, Liberty, Caliber, and Magnum) and that the CTS won Motor Trend COTY while the Malibu outscored the Accord! http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/
Of course, LLN won’t report that because Motor Trend is sort of a competitor to them

Guys, I gotta defend 1115 here. (gulp)

….. Don’t be givin’ 1115 chit because he whacks his wares while
….. giving a “come-hither” look to a Rosie O’Donnell mpeg collage.
….. He has a right to love O’Donnell and Accords.

What is this?!? the slowest news day ever or what?

Umm I don’t know if anyone has told you but its Thanksgiving Maybe you are an orphan and don’t have a family. The people who run LLN are probably having dinner at Bob Putz’s house. They are eating corporate Turkey and discussing more road tests of American vehicles and how to make Toyota the enemy so GM can hold on to their #1 spot(depending on which argument Commo is trying to win)

Nice conspiracy theories 1115. I am sure, that virtually every auto site is at Bob Lutz house – he invited all of them. And yes, I will also be going off in a few hours for dinner.

The only company concerned with being #1 is Toyoda, as their CEO clearly stated in the mid 90s that their goal was to overtake GM as the number one appliance maker (I mean, automaker)

I think we should all blame the recall to the FAT A$$ drivers in the U.S.. It’s their weight that causes all these recalls….Happy Turkey day!

1115 loser…give it up, you’ve been 0wned by everyone on this board. You don’t need to prove that you’re the village idiot, we’re quite aware of that.

Hahaha, is 1115 STILL trying to say that Nissan is owned by Renault? Man, what a ****in moron. Way to waste a good 48 hours of your life on the same misguided point.

Unlike Commordore I don’t care what you pro domestic idiots think of me. The fact that you are trying to get me to stop is funny to me. You seem to think calling me names will get me to stop like we are 12 or something Sorry grown men dont respond to **** like that

Japanese are superior you know the American public knows it and the consumers know it That is why american’s are driving Japanese cars

This was the slowest news day ever.

“Unlike Commodore…………..” Again bro, why are you talking FOR me? When have I said that I care about what others say? This is just like me saying to buy American because it’s American. I HAVE NEVER SAID EITHER OF THOSE THINGS. Is it so hard to just take my word for it, after all, I am the one who you allege said these things. You have never even quoted me saying them, and yet you STILL insist that I think like that when I do NOT.

Then you try to say your classic “everyone knows Jap cars are better than American” and you point to the fact that the “public knows it”. Well are ALL these people that are disagreeing with you not part of the American public? They are car-enthusiasts, they are the part of the public that knows the MOST about cars and are the ones who rightfully say that American cars are in fact better than Jap cars in many cases. So people’s opinion goes against what you say, the facts go against what you say, the sales numbers go against what you say, the press is increasingly giving GM’’s new products a chance and praising them…………………. I mean, I know you are stubborn bro, but eventually you are gonna have to give up. Get a life, spend some more time at your job — maybe you will become store manager some day!

1115 = Director Of Burger Flippance down at FatBurger … http://www.fatburger.com/home/

October sales
32.8 percent for Nissan and Toyonda
51.9 percent for “the domestics.”

Japanese are superior you know the American public knows it and the consumers know it That is why american’s are driving Japanese cars.

It seems like more americans are driving american cars, which by your logic would make THEM superior.

Fluffer,the only woman I date is my hyperattractive wife,and if you’re repulsed by that ….

R-Head: you really think a Fatburger manager would let 1115 near food he planned to serve to other people?

CRAP!!! I have a 2005 Altima! DANGIT!

JJT, no I don’t think that, but I caught some Sanford & Son yesterday and I can’t get Fred outta my mind.

R-Head: Was it the wild parsley episode? Funniest ever.

maximus: I like that new altima coupe!

1115 is 15 years old, give him a break. All 15 year olds think they know everything. He’s clueless. What he does not seem to understand is everyone on this site, regardless of whether they ar pro domestic, Euro, or Asian, we all think he is a biased idiot. He is unable to remember what he says from blog to blog. Poor kid.
He actully said a few post back something about Americans buying American flags after 9/11 were idiots because of how the goverment is. Proof how youg and bumb he truly is. Anyone that believes that tragic day was the fault of our own goverment is truly a dumb ****.

That’s too bad maximus. Maybe you should consider a non-Nissan next time. How about an Aura/Malibu? Or, my favorite mid-sizer – the new Mazda 6?

lamboz – 15 or not, it still pisses me off that people actually think like he does. Biased, anti-American (and NOT because he doesn’t want an American car, but because he has openly stated at least once that he hates American companies and everything that they produce or have anything to do with. Also, the 9-11 comment didn’t help him either. I just ignored it presuming he was like Rosie O’Donnell or something and wanted a reaction and I wouldn’t give him one).

The best Dictatorship is the illusion of Democracy
Keep listening to Toby Keith and be a Patriot Also believe whatever your govt says bc they would NEVER lie to you
Keep watching Nascar and keep buying American bc just like the govt the American car companies wouldn’t sell crap to you to save $$$ and keep it in their pockets
Even if I was 15 you idiots cant prove that American car companies make a reliable product on par with the Japanese
Saying that I’m 15 is more of an insult to yourselves and wont help your so called “arguments”
First admit that GM and the other american car companies suck!
Second admit tha the Japanese have a more reliable product with better build qual and higher resale.
Third Admit that Gm cars will have to stand the 10 year test of time to even be thought of in the same catagory with the Japanese.
Its a three step program. I know its hard to admit but its better for you in the long run. There is nothing wrong with pride in your country but to buy an inferior product bc its american is just plain stupid

Lamboz, please be honest.

1115’s mom did not need to be forced to watch his dad ram unknown large objects up 1115’s ass. She was an active participant, given that she wished deep down she had gone thru with the abortion instead of using the $300 for a couple bottles of Jack Daniels and some crack. Once she even used an extra large steerburger spatula on 1115’s ass … sideways.

1115: the only thing more rancid than T. Kieth’s music is his politics.

I’d rather watch Aussie V8 Supercars (where they actually have to turn) than NASCAR.

“Even if I was 15 you idiots cant (sic) prove that American car companies make a reliable product on par with the Japanese.”

It can’t be proven to you– you’ve got **** in your ears. But many people who’s livelihood depends on their knowing cars are saying just that.

If you were 15, presumably you’d have learned how to construct a sentence by now.

“There is nothing wrong with pride in your country but to buy an inferior product bc its american is just plain stupid.”

But fortunately, we don’t have to do that now.

Y’all are about to get me fired. I’m fortunate that there’s a skeleton staff today, and the only person near me is a cool guy in the same pod. I’ve got to fake coughs to cover up my laughs.

But y’all forgot the part where the quarterback keyed his accord, and took the girl(?) of his jackoff fantasies to Lover’s Lane in a Camaro.

gay? “We don’t have that in Iran.”

Sorry, I don’t listen to Toby Keith either, nor do I follow Nascar. We have proved to you many times over that American autos can be just as reliable, if not more so. I think jjt is right, you really should get an appointment to get the **** cleaned out of your ears. GM has already past the “10 year test” with me as well as many others. But once again it can’t possibly be true because that’s not what your import biased circle jerk magazines suggest. The new Tundra can’t even take the stress of an ATV being loaded on it’s tailgate!(true story, you should research it sometime!) If that’s your idea of superior build quality then more power to ya! It must be out of sheer entertainment value that I even continue to respond to you. Before I even type a response I already know that anything that goes against your biased way of thinking will go right over your head!

dust your shoulders off and keep going

on another note bliss discovered his caps lock key, good job bliss.

Score one for 1115, you are correct, it should have been passed instead of past! Too bad you never learned how to comprehend while you were at it. I have owned GM trucks since 93, despite your accusations they have all been VERY reliable. If you do the math that is 14 years! Why would anyone in there right mind dump that kind of service for an unproven Tundra?????

A truck ? Its passenger cars that sell Not trucks Trucks are for people who listen to Toby Kieth and watch NASCAR. You just proved my point lol
Spoken like a true redneck

I better hurry and correct my last post before the 1115 grammar police arrest me! There should have been their! lol

Please MHW. I’m not like JJt. I don’t correct people and then post with bad grammar.

I can understand you confusing “there’ with “their” but “past” and “passed” is ridiculous! I’m sure it is embarrassing for you but that is what you get speaking out of term with me.

Get a “grammar” not “grandma” lesson from JJT lol

And your correcting my grammar? Your posts make you look like the real redneck! Last time I checked trucks still outsold cars smarts, and far more are sold to normal people like myself than the redneck crowd. If you want to turn the subject to proving a point, you just proved another one of mine. I often accuse you of paying little to no attention to what others post. This once again proves it since I have said multiple times that I drive an 08 Dmax, now you act as if it’s some kind of new discovery. What a tard!

Don’t be racist 1115. It hurts your credibility ever more, if you ever had any.

.

The truth is that American cars have been flawless lately. Some of them have even gone way past that 10 year mark that you have set for them (such as Buicks and Cadillacs and others like the Malibu and GM trucks). I know where you live (San Fransisco?) there are no domestics on the roads because everyone is either extremely far-left or an eco-freak (heard about a lady that sterilized herself because she says babies pollute the world). Anyway, the absense of domestics in your city doesn’t mean that they are not reliable – I see them all the time where I live.

.

You are probably one of the most stubborn people in the world. You understand what we are saying and know it’s correct, yet you pretend like we never said anything. The truth is that imports are PROVING themselves to be very UNRELIABLE lately, while the domestics have had no problems. The exact things that you are saying over and over and over again are being disproven every day by all the recalls, problems, sales numbers, and so on. Someday, when you can afford a new car, you will get your import and most likely expirience all these problems for yourself. What are you gonna do then, start repeating to yourself “NO way, this can’t happen, it’s not possible, this car is from Japan, it is superior, it has better resale, quality and value than everyone else………………”

**** happens. Lets go get a beer.

No, I was making a point about freedom in america. The prez of Iran spoke at Columbia, and offered that quote. I’ve never called you gay, and I wasn’t then. Just illustrating what other societies think of freedom.

Now, if you’re describing women you’ve never met as “repulsive,” that opens you up to such accusations. Then of course, there’s your career choice.

“The truth is that imports are PROVING themselves to be very UNRELIABLE lately, while the domestics have had no problems.”

Not quite, I’d say they’re about at the same level which makes these whole discussions of who has the better reliability irrelevant. Rather I’d focus on the resale values of the vehicles to see which ones are the better choices. That is if you actually care about resale.

Absolutely true Veda. I myself am not convinced that the domestics are BETTER than the imports, but I am 100% convinced that the quality of imports has greatly dropped, and is now at about the same level as domestics (or at least we can agree that the imports are not much better than domestics in quality & reliability).

This debate isn’t even about who is better. For me, it is about that the Japs are NOT “superior” to anyone e

One year of low recalls and unproven cars doesn’t make the domestics just as reliable as the imports

You “people”want American cars to come back so bad that you are forgetting about their track records. You “People” use a few exaggerated import recalls to fuel your arguments and it’s just tacky

Japanese cars are still superior. I have been accused of repeating messages but I stick to my point unlike Commo, JJT, MHW and others. I don’t skip around the subject or use grade school epithets.

When GM has 10 solid years of trouble free cars that are and have high resale then I may believe that they are almost equal to the superior Japanese cars. Import recalls are better anyway BC Imports catch the problem quicker and don’t wait years like the domestics. Every time someone drives a GM they are putting their lives in danger.

It’s great to hope that the Enclave will be as reliable and has a resale like the Pilot or MDX (they are two different vehicles) but there is no evidence of that. Going by the GM track record and using the Rainer and the Rendezvous as an example it is highly unlikely that will happen. Comparing current Buick trucks is totally relevant and it’s proves my point.

Limbos existence on this site is sad. His name is based off someone else’s name and he uses no factual evidence and doesn’t even discuss cars anymore. It’s sad that there are people like him out there in the world. He is one of the reasons that America sucks like it does

Guys, this ****ing debate about American versus Other cars has gone on too long.

I have been a Jeep fan for more than 10 years and also am a diehard enthusiast of certain American cars like the 300/SRT, Mustang GT, and Yukon/Denali/Escalade, I am essentially nonbiased and have love for ALL of god’s vehicles.

BUT I can’t say the American cars are on par with their Jap and European couterparts. No matter how many CTS-Vs, Escalades, or Lincolns I get into, I honestly can’t say the build quality is better than all the Lexuses (Lexii?), BMWs, and Infinitis I get into. They’re just not the same.

What redeems American cars is their honesty and attitude, which is hard to find anywhere else. That’s why I love my ****ty 2008 Wrangler. Sure it’s a piece of junk, and I could afford a WAY better car, but I love it. I’ve actually never owned a non-American car in my life, but I’m the FIRST to admit that foreign cars a re superior from a quality perspective. That being said, I won’t go to a foreign car unless it’s a Benz.

I leased a 2002 Altima that had this problem. I was about a year and a half into the lease when the problem occurred. The car would shut off when it came to a complete stop. You would have to wait a few seconds to restart it. Luckily, I was able to drive it to the Nissan dealership. They replaced the sensor and I did not have any further problems with this issue.

1115, you make me laugh, you continue to skip over everything that goes against your beliefs. Once again GM has already proven itself with me as well as a multitude of others. You are a product of your own accusations. You want America to fail so bad that your teeth hurt, you can’t stand the fact that American cars have become very competative, and in many cases class leading. Get over it already, this is 2007, not 1983!!! While you continue to make false claims, I will continue to enjoy my new class leading Duramax with both excellent reliabilty as well as your favorite, excellent resale value!!!

1115, why do you think we have given you the example of the floormats in the Lexus ES350s? To PROVE to you that Toy is not concerned with catching the problem quickly. In fact, I SIX Lexus drivers got in an accident because of the floor mats pushing down on their accelerator (and some Prius owners as well) but Toyota REFUSED to recall them. They had to be sued until they finally recalled them because they didn’t want to add it to their recall count!! This example completely defeats your point about Toyoda recalling their products prompty yet you refuse to take in the facts and admit you are wrong and you just say the same thing about Toyoda being responsible as if no one said anything.

The Pilot and the MDX are as different as the Outlook and Enclave, let’s just leave it at that. Comparing the Rendez and Rainier is not relevant because that is what our whole argument is about. That GM’s products are nothing like the **** they have made in the past. All the signs of a high resale value are in the Enclave, and I explained them to you but of course you ignored them because it doesn’t help your argument.

.

” He is one of the reasons that America sucks like it does” – so when are you leaving? DId you pack your bags, do you know where you are going?

I am confident that you hate America for whatever reason, and one of your reasons for being so insistent that non-American things are better are simply because you want to see America fail. Again, I don’t know if its because you are a Bush hater (even though I don’t really like Bush either) or an eco-freak, or an anti-war mom, but there is some reason you just hate America and I’d love to know what it is.

The Pilot and the MDX are much different than the Enclave Acadia Outlook Traverse and what ever other clones of that sorry ass Lambda GM made
Different engines interiors and exteriors and driving dynamics means different vehicle

The Rendezvous Rainer and Teraza are all 2007 models!
I know you are ashamed of those vehicles but those vehicles are the future of the Enclave. I know how you like to ignore the past (or passed right MHW) of GM but those vehicles are current in the model lineup. Once again just like with everything you post you are WRONG!

Show some real conclusive proof that “floor mats” are killing people in Toyota’s. That is so sad that people are actually blaming the floor mats on their accidents

“It’s great to hope that the Enclave will be as reliable and has a resale like the Pilot or MDX.”

No, it’s not. That should be a base-line expectation.

Few american cars are better than most imports. Some imports are better than just about all domestics. Some japanese cars are better than some non-japanese cars.

1115: I’m skeptical of the floor-mats situation. It seems that driver error would be a better explanation.

I’m telling you guys, you should just ignore this delusional 6 year old who’s obviously rubbing his ass across the keyboard, for as his mother puts it “mental stimulation”, since he can’t pass as *educatable*, seen clearly here.

JJT- It’s not just happening with Toyota. I think Toyota’s covering this up, saying it’s solely floor mats. What HAS been confirmed is that computer adjusted throttle control has caused accidents in the past, and reports of these accidents have been higher since they started putting computers in these cars, not floor mats.

The floor mats were inapproriatly designed so that they got stuck and pushed down the accelerator. Even when the drivers foot was off the pedals, the car kept going faster and stopping it was difficult and confusion because the driver’s couldn’t see why the car was accelerating (they don’t have a clear view of the pedal cluster). OK?

Look up the GM Product Catalog and you will find that the only Buick models are the Lucerne, Lacrosse, and Enclave. I know you want those other ones to be on the list because it would help your argument but…..too bad.

Cant disprove any of my points so a silly attempt at an insult is your answer jj?
Try sending a link and trying to disporve something
Saying some faux witty comment on a car thread proves nothing
Im sure that cracks people up in the break room at Circuit City
JJT
Almost there but Ill correct you like I always have to
NO American cars are better than ANY Toyota or Honda. ALL Toyota and Hondas are beter than ALL domestics
ALL Toyota and Hondas are better than non Toyota and Honda’s

Keep dreaming 1115, keep dreaming!

The “dream” is a reality. Check the resales and the car magazines.

The only thing that’s reality is the fact that you are living in la la land! I’m starting to think you really are GM sales in drag!

You really are hung up on resale aren’t you? It always seems to be the first thing you bring up, before quality, technology, innovation, style, anything

Ok well build quality-Japanese win
Technology- Japanese win First in dash nav, Vtec, Hybrid tech
Innovation- Still Japanese- same as above
Style- It’s subjective but Japanese still win

hahaha you don’t even seem to know the difference between technology and innovation

I find it hilarious that all you have left to convinced yourself are a bunch of biased car magazines (which I am pretty sure agree that the imports are too bland hence they lose the ’style’ category) and resale values of of KBB.

And in your habit of generalizing things, you seem to think that just because one Honda had a good resale value, ALL imports have a good resale value.Well let me tell you that NO imports have better resales than the domestic pickups and SUVs. In addition, many large cars and crossovers from the domestics beat out the imports in resale.

“ALL Toyondas are better than the domestics”? What Toyonda beats the Corvette, the Silverado, the Tahoe, the Suburban, the Enclave, Outlook, Acadia, G8, CTS, Solstice, Sky, and so on. And those are only the ones that K.I.L.L the imports. There are many other cars like the Aura, Malibu, Vue, Astra, and so on that are very competitive to the imports and are better in some ways and worse in others.

I do believe I understand your problem with resales. A LONG time ago when you bought your first new car, you liked it for a while and enjoyed the new car smell while it lasted and then you tried to get a new one. But that depreciation must have hit you so hard that you were forced to keep your car to this day so now you only buy used cars or imports for fear that the domestics havent changed a bit ever since you bought your brand new ‘92 Accord. That explain a lot of things: your obsession with resales, you living in the past, and you worshipping imports.

“Ok well build quality-Japanese win” – because nobody builds nice vehicles outside of the Japanese evidently?

“Technology- Japanese win First in dash nav, Vtec, Hybrid tech” – no other vehicle manufacturer has ever advanced technology?

“Style- It’s subjective but Japanese still win” – if it’s subjective then how can they win?

Hah! So, I guess you are using facts, aren’t you 1115…

The thing is, you don’t use logic. Whatever you have stuck inside your head about Japanese Auto manufacturers is gibberish and your as ignorant as…

I’m gonna coin the term *as ignorant as a 1115*, but despite that…

build quality-Japanese win

If you really must dwell on the past, then I will also. Auto manufacturers have been building cars for MUCH longer than Toyota or Honda have been. Do you have any clue how many Model T’s still exist? Over 100 years, they were never recalled, and their warranty was never “extended” (pathetic excuse). 500,000 doesn’t sound like a big number, compared to the amount they sold, but over a period of 100 years that’s more, than compared to the few million Corollas that have lasted, since 1966.
And now, I’ll be reasonable and dwell on the future. Tell me, what is the title of this page? Currently, Nissan is recalling .65 million cars! And it’s too bad for you, Nissan IS a Japanese company, and if you want to agree, go suck it. They still have their international design bases located in Atsugi-Shi, Kanagawa of Japan, where it’s been since 1954, and their headquarters, scattered, but it’s main headquarters still in Japan. Their alliance with Renault has bared fruit, but they haven’t shared many internal components vital to each others business.

And simply on the first page of an LLN search of “recall”, Toyota has recalled 1.1 million cars (remember, this is just the first page, not overall recalls or recalls not mentioned by LLN). That’s almost all of the results on the page, combined!
And that’s still not the end of it. Of the most recalled vehicles in 2007, Toyota is second on the list, Nissan is fourth, Suzuki is seventh, the Infiniti G35 coupe is 10th, and the Nissan Versa is 12th. Of that same list of vehicles recalled in 2007, 35% of them were of Japanese origin, the second most to any country! Vehicles of American origin, a mere 14%.

Many American cars do hold their value well. According to Kelly Blue Books 2007 values, the Chevrolet Corvette will retain it’s value the best, compared to all other vehicles in the industry, as of 2007. Also, Volkswagen is predicted to hold the most value of any one auto manufacturer in the United States.

Also, according to Kelly Blue Books, I compared a few vehicles.

Ford Edge- SE trim, 3.5 liter Auto, base, msrp at $26,025.00, invoice at $24,625.00, and blue book at $25,635.00.
Toyota Highlander- 3.3 liter auto, not base, msrp at $26,625.00, new car invoice at $23,770.00, and blue book at $25,427.00.
Honda Pilot- 3.5 liter auto, msrp at $27,690.00, invoice at $25,138.98, and blue book at $26,444.00.

Toyota Camry- Base, msrp at $19,130.00, invoice at $17,558.00, and blue book at $18,085.00
Ford Fusion- Base, msrp at $18,155.00, invoice at $17,041.00, and blue book at $17,211.00
Honda Accord- Base, msrp at $19,260.00, invoice at $17,525.16, blue book at $17,527.00.

Now, those weren’t necessarily used car prices, but it does show price flux over short periods of time.

A comparable 2004 Honda Accord is KB recommended at $12,785.00. A comparable 2004 Mazda 6 (you did pretty much say Mazda was American, did you not?) is KB recommended at $13,365.00. Also, a comparable 2004 Chevrolet Impala did pretty good too, at $11,650.00. Not as high of a resale, but it wasn’t sold for as much in the first place. If you want to argue that the Impala isn’t quite in the same demographic, then we can compare the Chevrolet Malibu, which did even better considering it’s base price.

There’s a lot more, but I won’t let it consume my time.

Technology and Innovation- Japanese win First in dash nav, Vtec, Hybrid tech
Figuring your age, I don’t expect you to really know what technology is, especially in a car.

The first internal combustion engine was derived by English inventor Sir Samuel Morland, who used it to drive water pumps, but was refined by Jean Joseph Etienne Lenoir (Belgian Born) to drive other mechanical parts. The MacPherson strut design was drawn up by a man named Fornanca of Fiat, in the 1920’s, and was then refined by Earl S. MacPherson, who worked at Ford. The Chapman strut, was designed by Lotus cars founder, Colin Chapman, who was British. Thomas Newcomen created the first cylinder-piston engine, in 1712 at Dudley Castle. A Frenchman named Etienne Lenoir patented the first practical gas engine in Paris in 1860 and drove a car based on the design from Paris to Join ville in 1862. In 1876, Nokolaus Otto patented the Otto cycle engine. Chrysler Corporation introduced the first commercially available power steering system on the 1951 Chrysler Imperial under the name Hydra guide. The first 4WD system was made by Dutch company Jacobus Spyker in 1902. The first tow truck was born in 1916 in the city of Chattanooga, after Ernest Holmes, Sr.. The Antoinette, a short lived French automobile manufacturer, was the first to use a V-8 engine in his cars. Lancia developed it’s first V-6 engine in 1950. Cadillacs 1981 Seville was the first full production car to feature cylinder deactivation, with the 1905 Sturtevant 38/45 six being the first vehicle to showcase cylinder deactivation. The first supercharged engine was the Mercedes 40 hp. The first Electronic Fuel injected car was the Volkswagen type3 & 4. The first four barrel carburetor was the 1941 Buick. The first turbo-charged car was the Oldsmobile Cutlass. The first point ignition was the Cadillac Model Thirty. The first engine with a removable cylinder head was the Ford Model T. The first gas turbine car was by Rover. The first wankle engine was put into production by NSU. The first Ute was the Ford Australia Coupe Utility. The first overdrive was on the Chrysler Airflow. The first 8 speed was on the 1960 Moskvitch 410/411, not Lexus. The first automatic transmission was Oldsmobile’s Hydra-matic. The first 7 speed automatic transmission was on the Mercedes Benz Trip-Tronic. The first front wheel drive car was the 1924 Tracta. The first Mid engine car was produced by Rumpler. The first mass produced sedan was the 1911 Speedwell Motor Car. The first hatchback was the 1953 Aston Martin DB2/4. The first CVT in a car was used by the 1958 DAF 600 “A-Type”. The first AWD car was the Jensen FF. The first independent front suspension was used on the 1949 Ford Vedette. The first fully active suspension was used on the 1983 Lotus 92. The 1919 Hispano-Suiza H6 was the first car to use disk brakes on all four wheels. The first electronic parking brake is on the Lincoln LS. The first use of cruise control was on the 1953 Imperial. The first run flat tire was used on the 1974 Mini 1275GT. The first HID lights were used on the Lincoln Mark Vlll. The first retractable headlights were on the 1936 Cord. The first multiplexed wiring system was used on the Cadillac Allante, although there had been similar systems before it. The first AC alternator was equipped on the 1960 Valiant. The first electric self-starter was used by Cadillac in 1912. The first car to equip air conditioning was the 1938 Studebaker Commander. The first climate control was used on 1964 Cadillacs. The ABS system was very much pioneered by the Jeep Grand Cherokee, and was the first SUV to feature ABS. The first traction control system and “Fly by wire” technology was featured on the BMW 7 series. The Cadillac Deville was the first vehicle to feature “night vision”. The Ford Model T was the first vehicle to reach the 1,000,000 sales mark. The first “heads up” display was on the Oldsmobile Cutlass, and the first airbags were also featured on an Oldsmobile (one of my favorite marks). The first 6 airbag system though, was on the Audi A8. The first windshield defroster was on a Studebaker, as was the first windshield washer and air conditioner (as I mentioned). The first full electric, Chinese electric vehicle is the Miles Electric (on sale currently- it’s the first Chinese vehicle in America, for that matter). The first turn signals were used on the 1939 Buick, and first tilt away steering column on the 1928 Buick. The first four wheel steering system was used on the 1938 Mercedes 170VL, which was a venerable military truck. The highest specific output of any engine was the Dauer 962 LM, which was generally speaking a road version of the 962 that won the 24 hours of Lem Mans twice, World Sports Car Championship in 85′ and 86′, the IMSA GT Championship every year from 1985 to 1988, and the All Japan Sports Prototype Championship from 1985 until 1989. The 2007 Shelby Ultimate Aero TT has the highest amount of horsepower in any vehicle, let alone it just broke the Bugatti Veyrons record, and has the most specific horsepower to weight ratio. The lowest European fuel consumption title holder is the Volkswagen Lupo. The Henney Kilowatt was the first transistor regulated, modern electric vehicle put into production, while the Detroit Electric is often considered the first electric vehicle.

The first hybrid was actually the 1901 Lohner-Porsche, in the beginning of the 1900’s, which had electric motors in the wheels, and an engine creating juice for those engines. If you’d like to argue it wasn’t high production, then the 1904 Auto-Mixte of Belgium was.

Style- It’s subjective but Japanese still win

The car of the Century Award was given to the Ford Model T, announced on December 18th of 1999. From 26 nominees, none of them were manufactured or designed by a Japanese automotive engineer. The finalists, the top 5 vehicles, had no input at all from Japanese technology or designers. Sports Car international, in choosing vehicles from the 1960’s to the present time, has featured Japanese sports cars only five times, out of 60 times. Sports Car International chooses these cars based on performance, design and engineering. The second generation TT has been honored with many awards including the inaugural Drive Car of the Year, Top Gear Coupe of the Year 2006, Fifth Gear Car of the Year 2006, Autobild ‘Most Beautiful Car’ and World Design Car of the Year 2007, as well as being a finalist for World Car of the Year. The designer of the Audi TT, Walter de Silva, picked up an impressive four prizes at the Auto Bild Design Award ceremony not too long ago.
The Japanese are very, very dimly lit in the automotive design world.

jonnycat, You’re a F***ing moron.

The only two re badge jobs are the Tribute and the B-Series, get a f***ing clue you half wit.

Actually, the Mazda CX9 and Mazda6 are both on Ford’s CD3 platform. The Mazda3 is on Ford’s C1 platform. Mazda does need Ford.

They’re completely different vehicles, and if you didn’t know Volvo, Mazda, AND Ford engineered that C1 platform.

Ford’s CD3 platform=Mazda’s, the platform was designed in Japan By Mazda.

It’s called Fords because, they use it, and have controlling interest in Mazda.

The vehicles themselves couldn’t be any more different from each other, the CX-9 has Ford’s V6, but that V6 that is now larger and built in japan, the CX-7, and CX-9 are all Mazda, the suspension, the interior, the styling, the dynamics, share nothing with Ford, nearly same goes for the 3 and 6, with a few exceptions.

The DISI turbo found in the CX-7 is all Mazda.

Ford needs Mazda.

Without Ford, Mazda would be broke. They are too far entwined with each other these days for either to survive. Ford survives off Mazda’s design expertise. Mazda couldn’t do it without Ford’s investment. You can’t say Mazda can afford to ditch Ford, because they can’t.

The Model T? That might be the last decent American car built ?
Im not the one obsessed with the past this guy is

“Ok well build quality-Japanese win” – because nobody builds nice vehicles outside of the Japanese evidently?-Not the American car companies

“Technology- Japanese win First in dash nav, Vtec, Hybrid tech” – no other vehicle manufacturer has ever advanced technology? Yea the other companies did it later but the Japanese were first

“Style- It’s subjective but Japanese still win” – if it’s subjective then how can they win?
Well I said its subjective so in my opinion the Japanese win
Keep up

Considering that V-TEC is now lagging behind many other manufacturers’ VVT systems and Honda is now scrambling to get it running full continuous variability, I wouldn’t hold that up as a measure of Japanese superiority.

Not that it isn’t still ****in’ sweet in an S2000.

OK Im sure you can back that last post up with something more than your opinion ….or maybe not

Of course he is talking about the past you ****ing moron!!! When we are talking about innovation among automakers you talk about the navigation system on the Honda Legend or whatever and IS THAT NOT IN THE PAST?

In the longest post in LLN history which I don’t have the time to read (but am confident that he killed all your arguments), jayjc talked about ALL the innovations Americans have made which you convinietly failed to mention. We were building cars LONG before the Japs were. In fact, Japanese started building their cars not too long before they were fighting us in World War II.
Americans were responsible for things such as mass-producing cars, automatic transmissions, and MANY others as listed in jayjc’s list.

If you think that the Japanese are being innovators with such things as 8 speed transmissions, you are being FOOLED because they are simply bringing back useless things from the past. The first 8 speed was in a MOSKVICH (a Soviet car) from decades ago. What Lexus did was simply bring back that idea. It is like in the 30s when cars went from V8s to V12s and then to V16s. Useless!! It has been done before, and it was useless. Same with electric cars – they are not new. They were the first cars Detroit build and they have been built long before the Japs. It is all simply GOOD MARKETING and you fall right into it. That is why you like Hyundai so much, they are simply the best at marketing (almost as good as Toy).

As we have shown you, Japs SUCK in quality lately (since at least 2003, as I showed you in the other thread because they are plagued by massive recalls), the Japs are NOT better innovators as we just proved to you (maybe in TVs, but I do NOT want to see the US auto industry go the way of our consumer electronics industry) so the only thing you have left to go on is style, which as you said is subjective but the vast majority of people (even import buyers) agree that their cars are BLAND

LOL sure the marketing is keeping the Japanese cars running and keeping them more reliable than the Americans. Its marketing that makes the American companies make crap for 20 years and then make 3 decent vehicles that you believe are good. That my friend is marketing and american pride on your part. Its not even good marketing bc no import buyer is going to trade their Camry in for a Maliboo or Saturn Error
You didn’t read the post but are sure he killed my argument? You have yet to kill my argument so what makes you think that jerk can ?
GM has had more recalls in the last 4 years and the has had poor quality for the last 20 plus and counting than the Japanese. The Japanese are better at technology and innovation whether it be electronics or cars so stop fooling yourself and letting your stubborn american pride get in the way of the facts. 2017 maybe but today GMs are still crap

jayjc08 did kill your argument 1115, he presented more facts in one post than you have in the entire time you have been on Leftlane. And your continued crap that no import owner would ever trade their car in on a domestic. I just read an article 2 days ago that was talking about the high number of imports being traded in on the new CTS, and if you think the same won’t happen with the new Malibu you are in for big surprise. The fact is not everyone who drives an import is as close minded as yourself, and not everyone that drives an import has had a good ownership experiance. You are just blowing hot air up your skirt if you can’t see the winds of change in the auto industry!

jayjc08 did kill your argument 1115, he presented more facts in one post than you have in the entire time you have been on Leftlane- Please pull up every post I have made on LLN to prove that otherwise stop talking out of your ass

You can prove those articles by posting them otherwise you are a liar. An import owner wont trade a proven Accord or Camry in for an Error or Maliboo.
If the owner had a Mazda 6 or Suzuki or something along those lines then maybe but not the top two Japanese cars
Ill be waiting for your links
Did you look up past vs passed ?

MHW said it pretty well. I don’t think you really represent the normal import buyer. You are like very extreme in your opinoins – kind of like a Cindy Sheehan on the FAR-left or an Ann Coulter on the FAR right. Neither of them are able to grasp anything in a subjective way – their biased views are unchangeable. They won’t accept anything anyone says that doesn’t agree with them.

jayjc showed you 3 feet across your screen of examples of innovations that were NOT made by the Japanese and yet you still insist that the Japs are leaders in innovation? HOW?

I am trying to make progress here so that we can agree on some things which would make it easier when we continue to argue in the future. At least we won’t start all over in every new thread involving domestics or imports. I mean, where do you get the 20 years of bad cars? I can agree with you to some degree on that but can you please provide your evidence for that claim?

And now you are back to saying they once make three decent cars. That is a gross underexaggeration and you know it. Decent GM cars by division:

Chevrolet:
Malibu
Corvette
Tahoe
HHR
Silverado
Suburban
Camaro!!
…maybe Cobalt

Pontiac:
G6 (you said you liked it)
G8 (+ Wagon, Ute versions)
Solstice

Saturn:
Aura
Astra
Sky
Vue
Outlook

GMC:
Acadia
Yukon
Sierra

Buick:
Lucerne
Enclave

Cadillac:
CTS
STS
XLR
Escalade
(all others are decent at the least)

Hummer:
H2 (does what its made for, and it was not made for MPGs)
H3
And hopefully the H4 will be good

Saab:
9-3 (the new one, with XWD)

That is 27 vehicles up there that I listed. I don’t want to spend a week debating each one, but the point is that you are very wrong and biased to say there are just 3 good ones. Instead of arguing with you (assuming you disagree with some of my choices) I will knock off 7 off the list. That’s 20 vehicles that GM makes that are “decent vehicles” as you call them. I call them VERY competitive. And don’t just respond to my list, give your evidence on how GM made crap for the last 20 years like you claim and at least admit that you are wrong about the innovations argument – don’t be so stubborn! We proved you wrong, just admit it so we can agree that at least the Japs are not any bigger innovators than everyone else.

You have proven nothing wrong Show me the track records of those vehicles listed vs a Japanese counterpart made by Toyota and/or Honda and show me the resale the reliebility ratings and the sales of the comparable Japanese competition from “Toyonda”
Chevrolet:
Malibu Not proven Old one sucked and is a rental car
Corvette THE ROOF FLIES OFF!
Tahoe-Part of the MILLIONS of recalls GM had for faulty brakes and more
HHR-what ? This is the same as the Cobalt
Silverado Same as Tahoe
Suburban Same as Tahooooo
Camaro!!- The new one isnt out yet but Im sure it will be just like the others
…maybe Cobalt-lol

Pontiac:
G6 (you said you liked it) Likes the coupes styling not the engineering Im sure it drives like hell
G8 (+ Wagon, Ute versions)- Holden imported autralian crap Not proven in the US
Solstice – Pretty nice so far you have 1

Saturn:
Aura- The Error Opel unproven crap from Europe Drove like hell (I rented one in April 07) Wont beat the Accord camry or even the Sonata at this point
Astra- Ass tra same as above I will rent one and see how crappy it drives
Sky- Same as the Pontiac so I guess that is 2 for you
Vue- Looks nice but its the same story as the Error
Outlook- Nice but GM made too many copies and they wont get to redesign it soon enough It will fade away

GMC:
Acadia Same as Outlook
Yukon Same as Tahoe
Sierra Same as Tahoe

Buick:
Lucerne-Nice if we are selling it in China This is the USA and people dont buy these Has no track record to go on Unproven
Enclave Same as the Outlook

Cadillac:
CTS- Like the interior but not matching up to the G35 or any car from Europe
STS- Bloated not better than a GS Lexus or RL
XLR- Its a Vette so the roof will fly off
Escalade- Oversized overpriced but I do like it so you are at 3
(all others are decent at the least)

Hummer:
H2 (does what its made for, and it was not made for MPGs) Please
H3 Please
And hopefully the H4 will be good Please

Saab:
9-3 (the new one, with XWD) I like the Saab but GM is ruining them I will give you 4 then

You were right GM has 4 good vehicles instead of 3 Dont forget the recalled Torrent and Equinox I liked those also (lol)
The Japanese are the innovators of the quality car that lasts long and is reliable They are the innovators of high resale value and %’s
They have it and GM doesnt
Thanks

Is that the best you can do 1115? Most of your comments to Commodores list just shows how ignorant you really are. You keep saying prove it or it’s just a lie, yet you never offer any proof yourself!!! You have totaly wore out the extremely rare and very old news Corvette panel issue. You know full well the Corvette is a kick ass car, it has been one of Car & Drivers 10 best for years and years. And as a bonus jayjc08 mentioned the fact that according to KBB the Vette will retain it’s resale value better than any other car period. The new Malibu has recieved rave reviews and outscored the new Accord in Motor Trends COTY shootout. And we all know by now that the CTS is the outright winner of Car Of The Year. The Silverado is also an undisputed leader that recieved Motor Trend Truck of the Year, North American Truck Of The Year, as well as many other awards. The Tahoe and Suburban are also leaders in there segment and enjoy all the goodness of the Silverado. The Saturn Aura won North American Car Of The Year. The H2 won Four Wheeler Of The Year when introduced. And the H3 just won 2008 Four Wheeler Of The Year. Of course all of that has to be some kind of huge mistake since they didn’t get 1115’s approval. You really need to wake the hell up and realize that there is an entire World outside of BLANDCO! (AKA Toyota and Honda)

1115, by your logic with the Corvette, since a few Civics have had issues with their wheels coming off, Civics suck because all of them will eventually lose their wheels.

umm do you guys write down everything i say??!!

By that logic 1115, the civic is worthless because its wheels fall off, the highlander must prove its reliability and the “Tundra is the same as the Sequioa” like the “Sierra and Tahoe are the same”

1×3-five what happened, your taking a beating. And wasting a lot of time doing it. Its OK to give up, you fought a good fight, especially for your age. But if your an American it is not healthy to be this self hating it really leads down a bad path.

1115 got shut down by the Civic rebuttal, so I doubt we’ll see him back in this thread. He’s moved on to trashing the Malibu.

“ALL Toyota and Hondas are better than ALL domestics.”

I got your ass now, hillbilly boy! You just posited yourself as Moron No. 1.

1115: I don’t care for “nav,” but the Enclave I thought I had a shot at had it.

Commodore: I don’t think the Fluffer has ever owned a domestic.

jayjc08: good stuff at 10:55s on the 25th. It’ll ignore that information, though.

CA36GTP: The only thing that keeps the S2000 from being the worst Miata knockoff is the MR-2.

Commodore: the 8-speed auto is supposed to make you forget you’re just buying a Toyota Celsior. But I think Hyundais are good.

“LOL sure the marketing is keeping the Japanese cars running and keeping them more reliable than the Americans.”
It’s marketing that makes people THINK Japanese cars are more reliable. That’s good for everybody.

I bet my little sister trades her Camry in for something else. “Saturn Error?” The only Saturn error there ever was was when I bought a civic instead of an SL1.

MHW: I’ve owned three imports and had one good ownership experience.

“An import owner won’t trade a proven Accord or Camry in.” The owner of a Proven ANYTHING is unlikely to switch brands. I’ve owned a cavalier and an Olds. Buying a Buick. A former co-worker drove a civic for 17 years. She bought a CR-V. Not my choice, but I can’t blame her.

Commodore: there is no true far left or far right in the U.S.

Decent GM cars by division:

Chevrolet:
Malibu: Best Commuter coffin available in the U.S. (Old one was good, but styling and marketing made it a rental car)
Corvette: World’s best sports-car value.
Tahoe: My mom drives one. Great!
HHR: good idea, poorly executed.
Silverado: World’s best truck.
Suburban: Most dependable …
Camaro: We’ll see, but historically great more often than not.
Cobalt: OK, but not spectacular. At least it’s no civic or corolla.

Pontiac:
G6: Descendant of the longest lasting midsizer from the ’80s.
Solstice: best miata knockoff.

Saturn:
Aura: see Malibu.
Astra: We’ll see
Sky: see solstice
Vue: best cute-ute ever!
Outlook: Acadia twin

GMC:
Acadia: Glenn Beck says this is the best car ever
Yukon: I like it, esp. the Denali
Sierra: see Silverado

Buick:
Lucerne: I like it, but not my cup of tea.
Enclave: I’m buying one. ‘Nuff said.

Cadillac:
CTS: Yeah! Better than the G35, which is a good car.
STS Seats in the mid-’90s model were too narrow. At least it’s not an Accord or Crown.
XLR: Any pimp would be proud
Escalade: Caddy takes the Japanese route.
(Yes, all others are decent at the least)

Hummer:
H2: I wouldn’t buy one, but I’d like to spend a half-hour in one in the swamps of Louisiana.
H3: ditto.

Saab:
9-3 (the new one, with XWD)

The fluffer will never admit he’s wrong.

MHW: “The Tahoe and Suburban are also leaders in there segment and enjoy all the goodness of the Silverado.”

That’s a lot of goodness!

I love how he knocked down the number of good cars from my 27 (and mind you, I didn’t include the Cobalt and things like that in the count) to only 4. I can name four in a second: CTS (winner of MT Car of the Year) G8 (best selling car in Australia), Enclave (most in-demand car in America), Aura (beat Camry in C&D comparison). See? I even gave justification for WHY they are great, competitive cars that anyone in the market should consider if they are interested in those segments.

Seriously 1115, you are getting ass raped left and right by EVERYBODY who is on my side (the fair, unbiased people who buy the best car, not always the Japanese car)

It’s used to being ass-raped, though “rape” implies that it’s not voluntary.

http://www.econogics.com/ev/evhisto.htm,
THE FIRST HYBRID WAS IN 1914 CALLED THE OWEN MAGNETIC.
85 YEQARS BEFORE TOYOTA LAUNCHED THE EXACT SAME TECHNOLOGY.

CTS , Asian automakers have never introduced anything new, it’s always been copied off someone else. Good link.

Why do you JJt and Lamboz always talk about gay sex ? And why do you care if people are ganging up on me on this site It doesnt matter I have the facts and you have high hopes
lol
Talk about the past was GM making crap in 1914 ? and Who cares Does anyone own a 12914 besides JJT ?

In what thread have you ever shot anyone down CA ? Please do a cut and paste I would love to see this

Tripleonefive- Instead of posting my links on the comment page, which I’m assured LLN would have deleted, I have instead made a post on LLN Forums:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/forums/showthread.php?p=553#post553

It lists all the links of major importance that I used. All the links are very keen and accurate, I tried to use wikipedia the least I could but alas, it has all the information in one place.

You’ve seriously amazed me with your ignorance and childish attitude. Obviously your a racist too, “anything from GM Ford and Chrylser ” (quote taken from auto spies survey, 10/21/2007 at 12:33:55 PM, and you spelled Chrysler wrong, there should be a comma after GM).

“The Japanese are the innovators of the quality car that lasts long and is reliable They are the innovators”

Seriously, go find me a Japanese vehicle, created in the very early 1900’s that’s had everyday use in the colony of German South-West Africa, today’s Namibia, featured all wheel drive and four wheel steering, and existed for over 40 years, until dissapearing with the onslaught of World War 2 (I’m referring to the 1907 Dernburg Wagen, an amazing vehicle that is cataloged on serious wheels, the website, under Mercedes Benz. It’s current location is unknown. Looking back, I must correct myself and Wiki; the first four wheel steered vehicle is the Dernburg Wagen).

Find me a Japanese car, that has experienced well over 2 million miles, millions of sales, and is still sputtering today (A Volkswagen Beetle, as of 1994 Guinness World Book of Records), or the highest record mileage for an automobile with the original gasoline motor without an overhaul- 577,363 miles to 5 Jan 1993 by a 1979 Cadillac Sedan de Ville. I’m sure though, these are no longer the record holders, but the only record book I have on hand is the 1994 Guinness Book of World Records.

Still, go find me a Japanese car that has withstood over 80 years of service, is still in working order, and has sold for a resale price of $17.6 million (I’m referring to the 1931 Bugatti Royale Kellner Coupe, which was sold in 1987 $8.7 million, which has been adjusted for inflation). The only Japanese vehicle to ever win the 24 Hour of Le Mans, is the Mazda 787B (and because you consider Mazda an English mark now, I can even disqualify that win).

Or, on a lighter note, a Japanese car that is smaller than the worlds smallest car, the Peel P50 (I have seen ONE, and their indescribably TINY, one my favorite vehicles since there were such low production numbers, and being such a unique, economical vehicle. “Cheaper than walking”).

So, what do the Japanese have on me? First to slap a navigation screen on a car (on a lighet note, NOT TRUE either, James Bond did it first!!!!!!), or a nice, but not ground breaking or new, innovation on an engine? No, they have nothing on me, the only thing they’ve ever had on me is being able to copy past designs, cheaper, and build on that success. Not to be vulgar, but YOU have nothing on me, you have no facts, no educated opinion. I’m almost certain you haven’t ridden in more than 3 of those vehicles that were listed, and yet you’ve already condemned them.

And yes, noticing your newest comment tripleonefive, there are over 1800 registered GM (maybe not GM at that time) vehicles, from before 1930, just looking at internet registries.

It matters 1115, because there was a hybrid in 1914 – about 9 decades before the Prius came out. And who cares what GM was doing in 1914? GM wasn’t even formed then, but many of its brands existed seperately. So what was Toyoda doing in 1914?

And you have NO facts. Remember when I asked you to provide evidence that GM has made ‘crap’ for the last 20 years? Still waiting. You are still in denial about Toyonda making crap (for 5 years now and counting) all of which I have proven. And you got killed on the argument about Toyonda being “an innovator”

Dont give me the prove GM has made crap for the last 20 years and counting when you can pick up a magazine look on KBB or ask any educated american consumer
You even said they made crap so dont play dumb with me
I have provided fact in past posts Why dont you provide some evidence that GM is building good cars that are worth considering
That is what this argument is all about
In the modern age Toyota has the Hybrid down You can pull some bs fact from 1865 1914 circa 1975 whatever Toyota and Honda are the leaders in Hybrid technology and they are the innovator of the system that Ford buys and GM wishes they had

trippleonefive says: “gay sex? Why are people ganging upon me?

I do give toyota credit for its hybrid system, but it’s still unlikely I’ll ever buy one of their cars

Why should I not give you proof? Is it that, you can’t defend your argument? You have no facts, ever single post regarded towards you, after you began your attack on American cars, not only on LLN, have said the exact same thing- You have no facts!

I think I’ve proven my point far times over, tripleonefive. If you had any clue to actually verify all the information I gave you, you’d find much of it is from the past 20 years, and a lot of it’s from Cadillac, Buick and Oldsmobile. The links are there, and if you have as much time as I believe you do on your hands to argue relentlessly on the internet, I think you should go check them out.

jJay: If the Fluffer did the reasearch, it would have to admit the truth. It clearly prefers the bliss of ignorance.

I’d like to think I’ve got 12 inches, and as long as I don’t measure …

same thing with 1115 and his “GM cars are Crap — that’s a fact” schtick

You and lamboz are always mentioning something with homosexual overtones
Im not going to post and repost the proof and the links Ive sent Obviously you have much time on your hands so what you need to do is check all my posts and the links that were embedded in them

You never proved aything, fluffer.
The only thing with homosexual overtones is you, but I understand the “gay-for-play” concept.