I’d like to think I’ve got 12 inches, and as long as I don’t measure …

same thing with 1115 and his “GM cars are Crap — that’s a fact” schtick

I think I’ve proven my point far times over, tripleonefive. If you had any clue to actually verify all the information I gave you, you’d find much of it is from the past 20 years, and a lot of it’s from Cadillac, Buick and Oldsmobile. The links are there, and if you have as much time as I believe you do on your hands to argue relentlessly on the internet, I think you should go check them out.

I do give toyota credit for its hybrid system, but it’s still unlikely I’ll ever buy one of their cars

And you have NO facts. Remember when I asked you to provide evidence that GM has made ‘crap’ for the last 20 years? Still waiting. You are still in denial about Toyonda making crap (for 5 years now and counting) all of which I have proven. And you got killed on the argument about Toyonda being “an innovator”

http://www.leftlanenews.com/forums/showthread.php?p=553#post553

It lists all the links of major importance that I used. All the links are very keen and accurate, I tried to use wikipedia the least I could but alas, it has all the information in one place.

You’ve seriously amazed me with your ignorance and childish attitude. Obviously your a racist too, “anything from GM Ford and Chrylser ” (quote taken from auto spies survey, 10/21/2007 at 12:33:55 PM, and you spelled Chrysler wrong, there should be a comma after GM).

“The Japanese are the innovators of the quality car that lasts long and is reliable They are the innovators”

Seriously, go find me a Japanese vehicle, created in the very early 1900’s that’s had everyday use in the colony of German South-West Africa, today’s Namibia, featured all wheel drive and four wheel steering, and existed for over 40 years, until dissapearing with the onslaught of World War 2 (I’m referring to the 1907 Dernburg Wagen, an amazing vehicle that is cataloged on serious wheels, the website, under Mercedes Benz. It’s current location is unknown. Looking back, I must correct myself and Wiki; the first four wheel steered vehicle is the Dernburg Wagen).

Find me a Japanese car, that has experienced well over 2 million miles, millions of sales, and is still sputtering today (A Volkswagen Beetle, as of 1994 Guinness World Book of Records), or the highest record mileage for an automobile with the original gasoline motor without an overhaul- 577,363 miles to 5 Jan 1993 by a 1979 Cadillac Sedan de Ville. I’m sure though, these are no longer the record holders, but the only record book I have on hand is the 1994 Guinness Book of World Records.

Still, go find me a Japanese car that has withstood over 80 years of service, is still in working order, and has sold for a resale price of $17.6 million (I’m referring to the 1931 Bugatti Royale Kellner Coupe, which was sold in 1987 $8.7 million, which has been adjusted for inflation). The only Japanese vehicle to ever win the 24 Hour of Le Mans, is the Mazda 787B (and because you consider Mazda an English mark now, I can even disqualify that win).

Or, on a lighter note, a Japanese car that is smaller than the worlds smallest car, the Peel P50 (I have seen ONE, and their indescribably TINY, one my favorite vehicles since there were such low production numbers, and being such a unique, economical vehicle. “Cheaper than walking”).

So, what do the Japanese have on me? First to slap a navigation screen on a car (on a lighet note, NOT TRUE either, James Bond did it first!!!!!!), or a nice, but not ground breaking or new, innovation on an engine? No, they have nothing on me, the only thing they’ve ever had on me is being able to copy past designs, cheaper, and build on that success. Not to be vulgar, but YOU have nothing on me, you have no facts, no educated opinion. I’m almost certain you haven’t ridden in more than 3 of those vehicles that were listed, and yet you’ve already condemned them.

Seriously 1115, you are getting ass raped left and right by EVERYBODY who is on my side (the fair, unbiased people who buy the best car, not always the Japanese car)

I got your ass now, hillbilly boy! You just posited yourself as Moron No. 1.

1115: I don’t care for “nav,” but the Enclave I thought I had a shot at had it.

Commodore: I don’t think the Fluffer has ever owned a domestic.

jayjc08: good stuff at 10:55s on the 25th. It’ll ignore that information, though.

CA36GTP: The only thing that keeps the S2000 from being the worst Miata knockoff is the MR-2.

Commodore: the 8-speed auto is supposed to make you forget you’re just buying a Toyota Celsior. But I think Hyundais are good.

“LOL sure the marketing is keeping the Japanese cars running and keeping them more reliable than the Americans.”
It’s marketing that makes people THINK Japanese cars are more reliable. That’s good for everybody.

I bet my little sister trades her Camry in for something else. “Saturn Error?” The only Saturn error there ever was was when I bought a civic instead of an SL1.

MHW: I’ve owned three imports and had one good ownership experience.

“An import owner won’t trade a proven Accord or Camry in.” The owner of a Proven ANYTHING is unlikely to switch brands. I’ve owned a cavalier and an Olds. Buying a Buick. A former co-worker drove a civic for 17 years. She bought a CR-V. Not my choice, but I can’t blame her.

Commodore: there is no true far left or far right in the U.S.

Decent GM cars by division:

Chevrolet:
Malibu: Best Commuter coffin available in the U.S. (Old one was good, but styling and marketing made it a rental car)
Corvette: World’s best sports-car value.
Tahoe: My mom drives one. Great!
HHR: good idea, poorly executed.
Silverado: World’s best truck.
Suburban: Most dependable …
Camaro: We’ll see, but historically great more often than not.
Cobalt: OK, but not spectacular. At least it’s no civic or corolla.

Pontiac:
G6: Descendant of the longest lasting midsizer from the ’80s.
Solstice: best miata knockoff.

Saturn:
Aura: see Malibu.
Astra: We’ll see
Sky: see solstice
Vue: best cute-ute ever!
Outlook: Acadia twin

GMC:
Acadia: Glenn Beck says this is the best car ever
Yukon: I like it, esp. the Denali
Sierra: see Silverado

Buick:
Lucerne: I like it, but not my cup of tea.
Enclave: I’m buying one. ‘Nuff said.

Cadillac:
CTS: Yeah! Better than the G35, which is a good car.
STS Seats in the mid-’90s model were too narrow. At least it’s not an Accord or Crown.
XLR: Any pimp would be proud
Escalade: Caddy takes the Japanese route.
(Yes, all others are decent at the least)

Hummer:
H2: I wouldn’t buy one, but I’d like to spend a half-hour in one in the swamps of Louisiana.
H3: ditto.

Saab:
9-3 (the new one, with XWD)

The fluffer will never admit he’s wrong.

MHW: “The Tahoe and Suburban are also leaders in there segment and enjoy all the goodness of the Silverado.”

That’s a lot of goodness!

Pontiac:
G6 (you said you liked it) Likes the coupes styling not the engineering Im sure it drives like hell
G8 (+ Wagon, Ute versions)- Holden imported autralian crap Not proven in the US
Solstice – Pretty nice so far you have 1

Saturn:
Aura- The Error Opel unproven crap from Europe Drove like hell (I rented one in April 07) Wont beat the Accord camry or even the Sonata at this point
Astra- Ass tra same as above I will rent one and see how crappy it drives
Sky- Same as the Pontiac so I guess that is 2 for you
Vue- Looks nice but its the same story as the Error
Outlook- Nice but GM made too many copies and they wont get to redesign it soon enough It will fade away

GMC:
Acadia Same as Outlook
Yukon Same as Tahoe
Sierra Same as Tahoe

Buick:
Lucerne-Nice if we are selling it in China This is the USA and people dont buy these Has no track record to go on Unproven
Enclave Same as the Outlook

Cadillac:
CTS- Like the interior but not matching up to the G35 or any car from Europe
STS- Bloated not better than a GS Lexus or RL
XLR- Its a Vette so the roof will fly off
Escalade- Oversized overpriced but I do like it so you are at 3
(all others are decent at the least)

Hummer:
H2 (does what its made for, and it was not made for MPGs) Please
H3 Please
And hopefully the H4 will be good Please

Saab:
9-3 (the new one, with XWD) I like the Saab but GM is ruining them I will give you 4 then

You were right GM has 4 good vehicles instead of 3 Dont forget the recalled Torrent and Equinox I liked those also (lol)
The Japanese are the innovators of the quality car that lasts long and is reliable They are the innovators of high resale value and %’s
They have it and GM doesnt
Thanks

jayjc showed you 3 feet across your screen of examples of innovations that were NOT made by the Japanese and yet you still insist that the Japs are leaders in innovation? HOW?

I am trying to make progress here so that we can agree on some things which would make it easier when we continue to argue in the future. At least we won’t start all over in every new thread involving domestics or imports. I mean, where do you get the 20 years of bad cars? I can agree with you to some degree on that but can you please provide your evidence for that claim?

And now you are back to saying they once make three decent cars. That is a gross underexaggeration and you know it. Decent GM cars by division:

Chevrolet:
Malibu
Corvette
Tahoe
HHR
Silverado
Suburban
Camaro!!
…maybe Cobalt

Pontiac:
G6 (you said you liked it)
G8 (+ Wagon, Ute versions)
Solstice

Saturn:
Aura
Astra
Sky
Vue
Outlook

GMC:
Acadia
Yukon
Sierra

Buick:
Lucerne
Enclave

Cadillac:
CTS
STS
XLR
Escalade
(all others are decent at the least)

Hummer:
H2 (does what its made for, and it was not made for MPGs)
H3
And hopefully the H4 will be good

Saab:
9-3 (the new one, with XWD)

That is 27 vehicles up there that I listed. I don’t want to spend a week debating each one, but the point is that you are very wrong and biased to say there are just 3 good ones. Instead of arguing with you (assuming you disagree with some of my choices) I will knock off 7 off the list. That’s 20 vehicles that GM makes that are “decent vehicles” as you call them. I call them VERY competitive. And don’t just respond to my list, give your evidence on how GM made crap for the last 20 years like you claim and at least admit that you are wrong about the innovations argument – don’t be so stubborn! We proved you wrong, just admit it so we can agree that at least the Japs are not any bigger innovators than everyone else.

You can prove those articles by posting them otherwise you are a liar. An import owner wont trade a proven Accord or Camry in for an Error or Maliboo.
If the owner had a Mazda 6 or Suzuki or something along those lines then maybe but not the top two Japanese cars
Ill be waiting for your links
Did you look up past vs passed ?

In the longest post in LLN history which I don’t have the time to read (but am confident that he killed all your arguments), jayjc talked about ALL the innovations Americans have made which you convinietly failed to mention. We were building cars LONG before the Japs were. In fact, Japanese started building their cars not too long before they were fighting us in World War II.
Americans were responsible for things such as mass-producing cars, automatic transmissions, and MANY others as listed in jayjc’s list.

If you think that the Japanese are being innovators with such things as 8 speed transmissions, you are being FOOLED because they are simply bringing back useless things from the past. The first 8 speed was in a MOSKVICH (a Soviet car) from decades ago. What Lexus did was simply bring back that idea. It is like in the 30s when cars went from V8s to V12s and then to V16s. Useless!! It has been done before, and it was useless. Same with electric cars – they are not new. They were the first cars Detroit build and they have been built long before the Japs. It is all simply GOOD MARKETING and you fall right into it. That is why you like Hyundai so much, they are simply the best at marketing (almost as good as Toy).

As we have shown you, Japs SUCK in quality lately (since at least 2003, as I showed you in the other thread because they are plagued by massive recalls), the Japs are NOT better innovators as we just proved to you (maybe in TVs, but I do NOT want to see the US auto industry go the way of our consumer electronics industry) so the only thing you have left to go on is style, which as you said is subjective but the vast majority of people (even import buyers) agree that their cars are BLAND

Not that it isn’t still ****in’ sweet in an S2000.

“Ok well build quality-Japanese win” – because nobody builds nice vehicles outside of the Japanese evidently?-Not the American car companies

“Technology- Japanese win First in dash nav, Vtec, Hybrid tech” – no other vehicle manufacturer has ever advanced technology? Yea the other companies did it later but the Japanese were first

“Style- It’s subjective but Japanese still win” – if it’s subjective then how can they win?
Well I said its subjective so in my opinion the Japanese win
Keep up

Ford’s CD3 platform=Mazda’s, the platform was designed in Japan By Mazda.

It’s called Fords because, they use it, and have controlling interest in Mazda.

The vehicles themselves couldn’t be any more different from each other, the CX-9 has Ford’s V6, but that V6 that is now larger and built in japan, the CX-7, and CX-9 are all Mazda, the suspension, the interior, the styling, the dynamics, share nothing with Ford, nearly same goes for the 3 and 6, with a few exceptions.

The DISI turbo found in the CX-7 is all Mazda.

Ford needs Mazda.

The only two re badge jobs are the Tribute and the B-Series, get a f***ing clue you half wit.