First post bitches!!!

Toyota is heading downhill, yes!!!

Downhill? Since when does “modest gains” mean downhill?

Numbers dammit! I want to see a breakdown by manufacturer, model etc etc. Anyone know a site?

There no surprises here. The sales for most part will be lower in following months or maybe 2008 altogether. The price of gas went up and the price of beer will follow (unrelated to gas, the hops doubled or quadrupled in price). Therefore your typical white thrash will have problems filling up tank of V-8 truck and belly with beer even with a credit card. With V-6 those trucks sucks worse then neighborhood whore.
Let’s start a lovely intellectual debate

Wow GM isn’t gaining as much…..

With further line pruning GM could start to regain its sales. Too many divisions, too many morphed rebadgers. Close Pontiac, Saturn, and Buick (leave Buick to China); GMC as the only truck division; keep Cadillac, Chevrolet, and GMC.

This is U.S. only numbers before anyone freaks out, and its only November. The important numbers come in a month.
Who will rule the world: Toyotas or GM?

Wow, Mercury is up? Must be that hot chic in the commercials…

A year ago when Toyota knocked Ford from #2 it management did not plan to “rule the world” in 2007. If I recall correctly Toyota was planning to take #1 title in 2010-2011. The fact that they are almost there and discussing who will rule in 2007 is proof of Toyota’s momentum. We shall see if their trouble with quality will translate into total loss of that momentum. The bad news for GM that if Toyota will loose momentum it will be not because GM did something right, but Toyota did something wrong.

or when the unions start sucking toyota dry in 15 years, greedy &^%&^& ! I mean honestly if they don’t wise up i mean the American auto industry is bleeding red ink because of them if the companies shutter and fail they have no job no benefits

Makes me love my Grand Marquis a bit more. Love that big V8 and smooth, quiet, ride.

MR LUTZ !!!!

Those hasty, pushed through redesigned trucks were not supposed to do this. OUCH !!!!

That Malibu should have come in sub $18K to save your butt. A lot of people don’t care about all the standard options you’re filling the car with. Price is what sells cars, not useless options some people splurge on.

Toyota never “plans” to do anything because they give lowball guidance on everything from sales to financials. Their initial plan was to be #1 in 2009, but most analysts watching closely knew that they would be #1 as early as 2007. In 2005 after passing Ford, they were looking at 9.8 million vehicles in 2008, which would definitely have been larger than GM (although they were claiming that they were unsure).

Don’t give me this “Toyota is just humbly moving along and surprising us all by selling so well…” They have the business leaders in place to plan and forecast, and they have taken on a growth strategy that is the most agressive I’ve seen (except maybe Suzuki). In the U.S. they have been discounting heavily. While their consumer rebates are still relatively small, their dealer incentives are massive now. You can buy a Corolla for thousands below MSRP (and invoice) and it’s not because the dealer is making as little money as possible.

But now, as you mention, Toyota’s challenge is quality. Their stunning growth has led to some bruising hits. Their sales to rental fleets is up significantly in the U.S. Their quest for #1 in sales and profit, much as GM and Ford’s constant battle for top nameplate, has led to penny-pinching, launches of vehicles with defects, launches of vehicles that have met the ire of environmentalists that used to love them and a drop in customer service overall.

All of this indicates that they stopped growing organically, which may have seen them #1 in 2009 or 2010 or even 2011, and started growing forcefully – which tells me they didn’t just happen to be near the top in 2007; they were gunning for it.

Ford has the most upside considering past performance. I believe the SYNC system is going to drive sales for Ford. I believe a lot of people will at least put a Fusion on their comparison list just because of Sync and with the car being competent in the segment it will also drive purchasing decisions.

Wow! Mercury’s performance is a pleasant surprise. They do seem to be getting a lot of marketing at the moment (more so than Lincoln or Ford). The brand seems to be doing a good job of reaching its target demographic of female customers (although their spokesmodel is doing a good job of connecting with the male demographic-WOW!). I was hoping that Mercury’s recent performance surge might convince Ford to make an attempt to reenergize the brand, but recent information seems to indicate otherwise. Until an official announcement is made of Mercury’s demise, I will still hold onto hope for the brand’s future (no matter how useless this may be).

Saw Toyota’s numbers by model yesterday. Unless they move 23,000 Tundras in Dec, they wont hit the target of 200k Tundra’s in 2007. They were at 177k Tundras YTD with about 14,500 sold in Nov (down from trend over the past months). If they want to move the 23k units, expect even more massive discounts (am hearing ads for Titans and Tundras for 7500 to 10k off MSRP).

Other thing I noted was across the brand board, almost all trucks or suvs were way down below recent trend (not necessarily YoY). No surprise given gas, but this was true whether a Sequoia, F150, Element, Ridgeline, Silverado, Tundra, Titan, Pathfinder – all the gas-hogs. Again no surprise, but it was clear it wasn’t due to a brand shift amongst these from domestic to import or vice versa.

what is this car company they call mercury?

i could have bet my firstborn child on the decline of hummer sales with the increase of crude oil prices.

another thing that drives me to drink (besides the rising fuel prices) is the fact that vehicles sell because of the little gagets that come with them such as SYNC or OnStar. why in the name of all that is holy would you choose a vehicle because you can talk to it?! i choose a vehicle because it looks good, how powerful it is and/or what it can do for me, besides being my new therapist…

GM TOOKE THE BIGGEST HIT????? NOW THERE’S A ****ING SURPRISE (!)

Hmmm. I don’t care about numbers.
I traded in our 2004 Hyundai Sonata, GLS V6, because it was becoming an junker, fast.
(their numbers are up…why? We owned 3 Hyundai’s..99 Sonata, 01 Tiburon,and 04 Sonata: the 99 was ok, but had issues. The 01 tib was fine until 99K, and th e04…here we go…) Rotors, 48K miles… Fried.
Why? I never replaced rotors on any car we ever owned in 20+ years( camaro, spectrum, sentra,200sx…and the Hyundais, and our scion tC, 05, with 94K on it as of today).

Brand loyalty is a joke to me.

We got a Focus, not because of SYNC…but, to our surprise, it is better than the car it replaced( yeah, it still the same car, modified to look, handle, ride and sound better ,than the 07…and is reliable, and 31-33MPG so far in 1000 miles/10 days of ownership).

We test drove a ton of cars, and went to look @ the Fusion(nice looking, dreadful interior/noisey I-4..Ughh)…and we saw the 08 Focus. Looked decent enough.
Now, it’s not as nice as our 05 tC…but the tC is around 18K, vs 17K, now..and we got a deal on the Focus… so $1,500(plus taxes and financing Saved…on this…= about 2,2oo saved over tC. Plus, we wanted a 4 door, for when we go places with the elderly relatives, and the 09 Corolla with the tC engine is not here yet…and the current Corolla is a snooze-fest, so we got the more fun to drive Focus..and look up reliability in the past 3-4 years… it’s above avg. So why not? Plus, instead of driving 40 miles one way to Scion for, say, possible warranty issues… if Foucs has an issue, it is 8 miles away).
The SYNC is a nice touch, BTW.

Can talk over the cellphone w.o looking away from the road, etc(if you gotta talk while driving).
Same for UBS thumb/flash drives….plug one in(no MP3 player needed, really)… and it works fine…. call out what you want to hear, no need to mess with anything else.

Anyhow, here’s hoping the Focus lasts longer than the Sonata( I see people getting excited over Genesis..Don’t.
I would rather get a new Malibu!).

take it easy.
PS: Where’S Suzuki figures?
Just curious.

That Accord has peaked. The reason sales are up are because the LAST redesign was hot, and since people have no taste, they assume that this new Accord is going to be just as awesome. In reality it’s a POS that won’t be worth 45% of it’s original MSRP after two years.

johnnycanuck: Chrysler 300 up 6.9% Malibu RETAIL SALES up 40% Silverados down 14%

5451: “Close Pontiac, Saturn, and Buick.” No, just give them dedicated models.

SwerveEarly: “Who will rule the world: Toyota or GM?” We all know that Goldman Sachs will rule the world.

Fletch, mazdaman: Jill Wagner is a biscuit, but she ain’t selling me a car.

Get Real: Grand Marquis is a good car to be in when you crash. I also love big V8s and can appreciate a smooth, quiet, ride.

cookie4me, LJ: “I believe the SYNC system is going to drive sales for Ford.” Not in and of itself, but because of what it represents. The focus would be one of the three I would drive if I were buying a compact. Much cooler than most any other Gen-Y car.
Play artist Jimi Hendrix!

RicardoHead: Tundra: You’ve got a better choice.

hbcbob3: Yeah, your average guy will have to spend dough on gas, and won’t have any left to buy a hummer.

jonmiles: The new accord looks good (I’ll drive it next week.)
“In reality it’s a POS that won’t be worth 45% of its original MSRP after two years.” To whom? I think the theoretical resale value will be higher than you say, but who knows about the actual retail value.

Hahaha Toyota was outgained by Ford!!

Hmm, so Mercury is still kicking. Maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel for them. For GM though, maybe the customers were waiting for the Red Tag Event that goes on every year? I’d like to see if GM make up the lost ground in December. I suspect it will.

Hey, jackjimturkey: Think you’re 100% “spot-on” with this comment/reply:

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Quote: cookie4me, LJ: “I believe the SYNC system is going to drive sales for Ford.” Not in and of itself, but because of what it represents. The focus would be one of the three I would drive if I were buying a compact. Much cooler than most any other Gen-Y car.
Play artist Jimi Hendrix
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It’s a combination of things…like you said.
SYNC is on item, and improvements made on the vehicles is another.
Combined… it’s really cool.
I like it.
For a 4 door compact.. it’s hard to beat.

Have a good one.

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