Say goodbye to V8,V10 and V12s

Get those big obnoxious SUV’s off the road. I’m tired of tripping on them in parking lots. And that’s smart, overriding those fools in California…its time to reign their extremist viewpoint.

Don’t worry about California…They will be in bankrupcy court with Chrysler after the votes are counted tonight.

Say goodbye to your older, cheaper beater cars, as they will not meet emmisions standards and will not be allowed on the roads.

Say hello to higher maintenance costs and higher used car prices as you will have to get non-vital problems fixed (e.g. check engine light) if you want to continue driving your car.

christianboy10- BYE!

Madcapp- If people would just buy what suited their needs, there would be alot more minivans on the road, which I have no problem with. If you own an SUV and use it the same way you would a minivan, you’re part of the problem.

If you own an SUV and tow, haul, camp, boat, drive off road, etc., then you’re not who I’m referring to, so let the record show that before any drama begins.

“The proposed regulation is receiving applause from all major automakers, who say that not allowing the states to make their own regulations will save the automakers from having to create unique models and powertrains for small markets.”

BEFORE YOU EVEN whine about this restrictive and oppressive regime, suggested reading.

S2L2SC- Right. That’s one of the problems with this plan.

But I’ve NEVER seen a plan without problems.

And as of now, I think this is geared more toward brand new cars being built….

EPA to regulate tailpipe emissions, yikes, that is scary.

Guess I’ll have to put the stock downpipe back on to pass emissions and then change back to the catless DP.

Makes my job easier – damn Cali emission states make it a pain in my a$$ to order cars, or change the delivering dealer location.

The automakers all have had fuel effiency on their minds since last year, and product plans have been created around this. They were scared people would stop caring about MPG, as before, making a product switch yet again – seesawing cost automakers $$$ and they rather just have a high standard so people can’t change their minds.

^adding on, Federal Government has a way of handling stuff that’s 10x better than most states, at least Missouri and Illinois. I’d much rather the Feds take control of this than leave it to our pathetic state governments.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/19/autos/fuel_economy_challenges/index.htm

i’m gonna make a serious question for once..

what do you guys over there in fat-land think about GPL?
stands for Liquid Propane Gas (Gas Propano Liquido in portugal)

in portugal, we use it quite a lot
it’s a special adaptacion that runs for about 2k u$ and fits im most petrol engines (no diesel i think) exept things like vtec (has to do with the burn temperature of propane and tha special, light but not so though special alloys in the engine valves). the car works on both petrol end propane (not at the same time) and it’s pretty reliable.
performance drops just a tad, but in america probablly not because you normally run 83 octanes and in europe we run 95 octanes and will eat 1 more liter of fuel per 60 miles or so.

the reason why we do it is simple.

liquid propane costs betwen a third and half the price of petrol (petrol 1.30€/L and propane about 0.5 and 0.6€)
and polutes less
the point is, it allows us to buy 3.0l engine and the fuel cost remains the same as our old 1.2 fiat that does 40 miles or so for 5 euros

Well, they can’t take old cars off the roads! Buy ‘em up while you can folks… and buy enough parts to keep ‘em running.

Regulating fuel economy increases doesn’t bother me… but regulating tailpipe emissions does. I don’t want to be driving a 5-door box on wheels with a 60hp 1.0L lawnmower engine.

Also… why aren’t emissions regulated for construction equipment? Why isn’t anyone pushing to get the industrial equipment manufacturers to clean up their act? How many cranes and backhoes and bulldozers and tractors are running in this country every day belching tons of black smoke into the air? What about the millions of mowers and weed eaters and leaf blowers in the nation? Many of them are still using two-stroke engines. I don’t see a catalytic converter or urea injection or particle filters on any of those vehicles. Why is it always automobiles? Other things pollute too.

Jake- Missouri and Illinois need help handling stuff?

Two words: Big Dig.

Yeah. There you go.

Honestly, I will say no more. Federal involvement and aid is the only thing that saved that project from being a 100% failure, instead of 80 or so. Even Massachusetts can’t handle our own money, and we make the paper for it over in Dalton, for chrissakes.

and, The Tuga- You don’t begin a “serious” question by calling an entire nation “fat land”.

guess you hated fat-camp then

I wonder how many coal-burning plants it takes to fire up this A-hole prez’s teleprompter.
Worthless SOB obama is worse than bush. POS control-happy narcissistic bastard.

RaineMan- Great point, I admit I’ve never even thought of it! I think I just mentioned the Big Dig, and there’s tons of construction in this general area, like a good number of building projects in Boston, a couple new bridges and some ramps getting finished up in Providence, demo projects in providence, and I’ve seen cranes all over Fall River and New Bedford.

And I’m just talking about in the 44th and 50th ranking states by size here! MA and RI!

I can’t imagine the numbers in that. Damn.

Tuga- it was miserable.

yeah,well, you just cant mess with the civil construction lobby
we have that in portugal
i cant have my car smoke just a bit more than normal, but some construction company cang have a fleet ogiant 40 year old scania trucks that send half a t-rex into my lungs every time they change gears.

but i can almost understand…
a digger is just a digger, there are only big holes, and small holes. no such thing as better hole (except that one…)

if construction companyes had to update their machines, one, it would mean a lot of stress on the manufactures, and would eventually increasse the housing cost

ahh, fat-camp… a way to punish over sensitive fat kids with low self esteam that results in the erradication of obese youth trough darwinism…or suicide, whatever you prefer to call it.

hitler would shed a tear of joy

What happened to the land of the free?

MercMark- They added the word “refills” or “french fries” to the end of it.

Or “Buy one get one” in there somewhere.

haha, so true shane, so true…

“you’re free to do as you´r shown, or suffer the judjment of the forgiving and tolerant jesus’s lambs society”

its going to either save 1.8 billion barrels of oil, or just rake in millions in fines for the government. i think the latter.

Tuga, responding to the question about LPG (Liquid Propane Gas), we do have cars that use it. We just don’t have many filling stations for LPG. We also have natural gas cars, but you have to install a filler in your house or go to a special filling station for it. Most of those types of fuels are used by government vehicles. We as a people tend to like the convenience of filling up at a gas station anywhere. Weird, huh?

beatus- Isn’t there a Civic that runs on Natrual Gas? I’ve seen an F-150 that runs propane too.

Does seem like a pain as far as filling up goes.

Must be that sweeping stereotypical and unreasonable perception of American laziness motivating me to say that…

Could be logic though.

This is the land of the free. Where there’s suppose to be a free market. If I build a vehicle that gets 2 mpg and people want to buy it, I should be able to sell it. That’s what freedom is. That’s what the United States of America is suppose to be.

beatumongus

it would be just a tiny bit of effort..
plus, forget the convinience. just think you could run your corver, or stang or wtv for the same amount you would spend on fuel as you do in a civic.

but yeah, i get that not enough spots to fill up.
i’m actually quite luky with that, since there’s one just a mile or to frome my home, but even so, i guess the aaverage distance given the amount of pumps equiped with it would be about 20 to 30 miles, while for petrol it’s about 1 or 2 miles
still, in a crisis economy (much more so than yours) like portugal’s, the possibility of driving something we would never be able to afford running on a day to day basis is quite tempting.

i mean, if i’m single, and 40 or so, instead of buying a “economic” 3.0 disel engine bmw or whatever…, i can buy a used 911 or whatever other gas guzzler monster i chose

(yeah, maintenance and sh*t, i’m just talking about the kind of chop your monthly income will take in fuel)

I hope some states catch a clue and really secede.
Janet Totalitariano can put me on her ridiculous watchlist now.

If we’re (them) gonna throw a number out there and demand everyone conform to it or else… lets make it 100mpg. Just as realistic.

Dwide Schrude
This is the land of the free. Where there’s suppose to be a free market. If I build a vehicle that gets 2 mpg and people want to buy it, I should be able to sell it. That’s what freedom is. That’s what the United States of America is suppose to be.

quoting someone i don’t care enough to remember, “my freedom ends where other people’s freedom start”
if you have the freedom to kill my planet with your bad choise of vehicle, i have the freedom to shove that vehicle up your arse
but your last sentence says it all.
that’s what america is supposed to be…

you people make me LAUGHHHHH!!!! “buy enough parts to keep them running”, haha that’s one of the dumbest statements I have ever heard! There are cars everywhere that don’t pass the tests and they still have parts!! Get over it, it was bound to happen sooner or later! If you are bitching about not being able to afford a car…go to KIA!!!!!!

shane, my logic tell’s me that if a 10 million people country can make something that only 2% of people use not be a flop, i guess a 300million or how many of you are there country would only say no to it due to lazzyness

Ketzer- 64.5 mpg difference. Nowhere near anything that can be described using the words “Just as”.

mayer_ray_nagin-http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/

Watch “TEXAS STILL WANTS TO LEAVE THE US? WTF?”

Olbermann’s not my favorite either. (my being a liberal noted)

But listen to some of those numbers, and tell me what “catch a clue” means to you. Because, now it sounds like “Plunge ourselves into hopeless poverty and uselessness” to me.

So we can all pretty much agree that not everyone is going to want to drive tiny little sh*tboxes even though seemingly we will be inundated with them by the time this takes effect. So what happens then? Just because the government says you have to make them doesn’t guarantee you’ll be able to sell them. So in order to move said TLSs (Tiny Little Sh*tboxes) manufacturers will have to do two things: lower the price of their TLSs to the point where there is little or no profit or raise the price of all the VTPAWs (Vehicles That People Actually Want) to make up for the lost revenue.

In other words, if you want to drive a real car in the future BPTPTFN (Be Prepared To Pay Through the F*cking Nose).

and just to put you in context… in portugal, someone who has a monthly income of 1000€ (screw exchange rates, given cost of living, it must be around the same as 1000us) is considered rich and gets the dirty eye from about 50% of the population

Tuga,

I’m not sure if you understand what I said or not, but yes, that is what America is suppose to be. I think most people have forgotten that over the past decades. There’s a reason everyone wanted to move to the land of the free in the past. That place which used to be so diserable is slowly beginning to disappear. Look what’s happening to America because of it.

desirabillitty is just lack of foresight

Foresight, really? I think you’re out your element, my friend.

plus, i don’t think diseppearing is the right term…
it’s got something to do with the two sided coin.
i don’t know if it’s just the crisis or what, but people, speclly young people are starting to realize that all that’s been told to us over the past 50 years about “the right way of life” is total bul**** and far from edifying to the concept of “human”

That run-on sentence is so incoherent I don’t even know how to respond.

35 miles per gallon. Hmm…. sounds easy if you drive a car with a Turbo 4. I bet all those soccer moms are going to cry their @$$es of because their beloved Escalades, Tahoes and Expeditions that do nothing but cause an annoyance to regular car drivers are going to be taxed so high they have to sell them.
Ok it’s really easy. Here’s how you can do it. Make lighter cars, stop putting so much safety and tech crap that make the car heavier. Decrease the size of most engines (ex instead of a 3.5 Liter V6, decrease it to 3.0 or lower), use direct injection, turbos, superchargers, get more diesel cars avilable to purchase, decrease the power of many cars, (ok do we really need a small car putting out more than 300 hp if it’s not a GTI, MS3, Focus RS) and just the simplest thing, make cars smaller.

sorry dwd,i´m just rantting

Shane, olberman is a retard, because Texas pays a load in taxes as it is to the feds. If it redirected those to its own government the billions he is talking about wount add upt to much difference.

Besides, the the choice is to pay start up costs for a new nation that I actually beleive in or pay start up costs for obama to steal my rights and liberties, I’ll take the former. Obama can kiss my azz

Displacement only affects gas mileage during idle and hard acceleration. I have a 3.5L V6 in my Nissan Quest minivan, and it gets better highway mileage than a 2.4L 4-cylinder PT Cruiser. The point is, there are other factors.

Shouldn’t come. Shouldn’t come.

You guys are just welcoming in the regulation. Sooner or later they will be regulating my life… no wait, they already are!
I don’t mind safety regulations, inspections every two years or so, licensing and trying to keep junkers off the road, but just look at Europe if you want a prime example of regulating peoples lives and cars.

They will continue to push safety regulations and emissions, but one is almost contranegative to the other. Why have they never even mentioned just making cars lighter? Safer for all of us, and easier to control emissions.

Wouldn’t the easiest way to achieve this is by tuning the drive by wire pedal to accelerate slower from start up? Of course, they’ll have to tune it to give the maximum amount of efficiency at any rpm. Say hello to CVT too…

This is a necessary step for our national security, to protect our economy from the vagaries of OPEC and the end of cheap oil, and to reduce money flowing to middle east terrorists. There’s a reason why Woolsey, the former director of the CIA for Bush Sr., drives a Prius with the bumper sticker “Osama bin Laden hates this car.”

I agree with Save Saab. There’s no reason for most SUV drivers to drive what they do. I helped direct traffic at a non-profit group I volunteer with. They had to drive down an incline to a grass field to park. Most people were okay with that, but if you saw a big white SUV, you knew two things: 1) 90% chance a woman would be driving it, 2) whoever was driving, they would be the most reluctant to get their wheels off the road, even though the parking lot was already full of Civics and Camrys that obviously had a lot less clearance (and 2WD). Old people and people in expensive cars were also hesitant. Get some 30-year-old guy with a beard in a beater, and it didn’t matter what make or model, he would have no problem getting in and out.

That said, how do you convince people it’s in our collective best interest to downsize a bit (and often safer, as SUVs are prone to head-smashing rollovers)? Peer pressure, pocketbook, or limit the selection, if education doesn’t work, and doesn’t seem like it is working. It would be nice if people voluntarily gave up some horsepower for the common good, but I don’t see it happening.

Tuga:
“This is the land of the free. Where there’s suppose to be a free market. If I build a vehicle that gets 2 mpg and people want to buy it, I should be able to sell it. That’s what freedom is. That’s what the United States of America is suppose to be.”

That is true, unless it puts the American people in jeopardy. In this case, it puts our economy in jeopardy of any price change from OPEC, for whatever reason they want, or the end of cheap oil, which is already occuring ($60/barrel in a strong recession – what’s it going to be when we get out of this recession?). In terms of national economic interest, we can’t allow that to continue unchecked. I’m not even talking about supposed effects of global warming, which is something to definitely pay attention to.

“quoting someone i don’t care enough to remember, “my freedom ends where other people’s freedom start”

My 6th grade teacher put it as “My freedom ends where another person’s nose begins”, ie. you can’t punch somebody in the face and claim you have a right to do so.

On the bright side, we’ll finally get more turbocharged and supercharged small engines with direct injection and other nice technologies in the USA. On the downside, it’s killing any chances at having more rear-drive cars or rear-biased AWD cars and V8’s in the right vehicles (ie small and medium size sedans, coupes and station wagons) will be relegated to expensive specialty models.

People’s dream cars (well, most of them– usually the high powered and/or exotic ones) will always be available old and new to those who can afford them. 35mpg shouldn’t be such a scary thing but it’s initially going to make many car models as boring as Civics.

You *should* still be able to pay a gas guzzler tax to buy a truly fast car and you *should* be able to buy a $25k 35mpg car that does 0-60 to the rear wheels in 6.5 seconds. Should.

As for SUVs, if this effectively makes them impractical then it will be a good thing. Those who want real SUVs and trucks for off-roading and power won’t be deterred. What really sucks is how it affects the rest of us who drive cars and will be facing a higher expense to buy the equivalent of what we already own when it comes time to get something new– or simply downgrade.

I think it’s funny how some people think this will apply to every car ever made and ever to be made… It wont. it will be a corporate average for cars produced and sold in a model year. it will not affect anything you’ve already bought unless they enact emission standards at inspection(like NYS and other states/areas) in which case it will only affect modified cars. I see and understand both sides of this argument and would have to say I fall on the side that is against emissions standards. As an auto enthusiast why should the government have such control of something I enjoy that does not harm others(dont give me that enviromental crap, I can show you as many scientific journals that conclude global warming is natural and not a result of the automobiles as you can show me to the contrary.)? The government is just plain over stepping thier bounds IMO.

This is the right thing to do.

Car companies have spent billions in R&D in stupid things like navigation and voice recognition and cupholders, when they should have spent money on getting our cars to get good gas mileage!

in 2009! No reason for a car to get 15mpg!

You can still buy a gas hog; just pay the surcharge (gas guzzler tax). No one is stopping you.

I do think once the economy rebounds, we need to raise the fed gax tax and help pay for more mass transit. Only way to get people out of their SUVs (which I see plenty in S. California for some reason).