He wants more plug in hybrids and also wants to reduce electrical consumption at the same time. How is that going to work? Someone please enlighten me.

Spoken like a true scientist and economist. Where the money will come for 7K tax incentive? That will definitely freeze out domestic auto makers. No one managed to oversee losses in government highly managed banking sectors and even government banks. Watch 4 billions a year disintegrate into bonuses with little to show for. Obama is a lucky man: if he would be completely white he would be institutionalized.

institutionalized - meant not senate, but room with padded walls.

Xyunya,
Unfortunately I think you’re right. I say unfortunately because I believe he will win the election. America always loves the young idealist. I just pray he doesn’t actually put most of these “ideas” into practice. I’d hate to think what that will do to the economy.

Nightblack_97, I teach part-time and in contact with a lot of young people. Based on my less then scientific research at the end of the day, he will loose. Eventually, electorate figures out who is right for the country. In the past 40 years, Americans made only 1 mistake (Jimmy Carter). All other presidents were definitely “middle of the road” and could be associated with either party, and in most cases actually were associated with either party.

Mandating that vehicles be plug in hybrid is a mistake, limits your options. What about just saying they need to be fuel effecient?

xyunya -
Now let me get this straight, you think Bush has been right for this country?

Bush hasn’t been right, but look at who he ran against- i’m not a bush supporter at all, but even when i saw Kerry/Edwards VS Bush/Cheney come on, like that wasn’t a given on who’d win

4 billion = 2 weeks in Iraq.

I think Bush is/was a better choice for this country. The decision to go in Iraq was based on information presented to him, and since this information is still classified, rational person can’t conclude that his decision was wrong. It was not made in a vacuum; military chiefs along with intelligence services and British similar minds came to the same conclusion. I understand, that Republican President can’t do no right for a true Democrat, but I can reason only with rational people. Party hacks will be party hacks, just like Ford man will drive Ford and Chevy gay will drive Chevy.

They just don’t get it. Plug-ins are not the answer… our power grid can’t handle the strain. Not to mention the fact that the vast majority of electricity in the USA is generated by plants that burn coal or natural gas. To meet the increased power demand companies will have to build new power plants… and guess who that cost gets passed on to, that’s right, EVERYONE, whether you have one of these new-fangled plug-in POS cars or not.
Petrolium was chosen as the power source for cars in the first place b/c it is readily available, efficient, and reasonably cheap… but like everything else it must be managed properly. Once people start driving sensible fuel efficient small cars and ditch the monster SUVs and trucks things will start to turn around. It is already starting to happen… very slowly… but it is a move in the right direction and the government didn’t have anything to do with it… the current demand for efficient vehicles is being driven by consumers.

Weed need nuke power 2 rin electric cars

the capital of mishigan s Lansing, not Lancing. I live 6 states away & no that.

I think giving the $ 2 the people whu buy the cars is the smatr way 2 go. The companies will just waste that $.

if obama wood B completely white he could not satisfy Michelle

Bush has been terrible 4 this country

Kerry was better thatn Bush, everybody except ted kennedu or david diuke wood B better than Busj. Gavin newsom wood probably B better than Bush.

RaineMan, I don’t know if grid can or can not support plug-ins. Theoretically, they’ll be charging at night, when demand is relatively low. But constituting plug-ins at some cost will make them either very expensive for consumer or manufacturer. IN reality, there will be over million hybrids and diesels on roads by 2015 with or without Obama’s directives. He is just pondering, and that will not go unnoticed.

ktulu: 1) Bush was elected twice (second time with huge margin)
2) you don’t know if Michelle is satisfied; anyway Obama has very long fingers

I love how everyone thinks Bush did this all by himself, and they forget the more than 600 other people who have to vote on stuff, too.

@Xile - right on, man.

This is a great idea, though the logistics are clearly tough. But what is the saying? “Perfection is the goal to acheive greatness.” The principle is that if you aim really high and miss, you’ll sill get up there pretty well.

If Obama shoots for 1 million plugin hybrids and gets 500,000 on the road, that’s still something. If he wants half of the gov’t vehicles to be plugin or hybrid and gets a third, that’s still something.

The market is about to blow wide open for hybrids. First Prius, now Tahoe, with Insight and Volt on the way. Others will follow, I’m sure.

No matter who is elected we will suffer

Politics aside, were is “Lancing” MI?

Xyunya… here’s how it will go. Millions of people get off work at 5PM… they’ll all get home to their suburbian mansions (at least the ones that haven’t been foreclosed on), turn on the TV, the computer, crank down the AC, put a load of laundry in to wash/dry, have the stove and microwave going to cook dinner, AND plug their car in. Remember the rolling blackouts that california experienced several years back? Ya… welcome to the world of plug-in hybrids.

Unfortunately if the presidents cars are electric how will he outrun threats? Yea some electric cars are quite fast for what they are but with all the security added weight of Bullet proof glass ect. his electric caddie limo is going to be slow. I think he needs to stay out of the auto industry all together except for dropping all together the taxes that foreign auto makers pay to have their cars imported. Keep safety standards but let us be flooded with cheap light weight cars, Americans need to realize for them to get a cheap car with good mpg they need to fit their fat rear ends in a small seat.

more grandstanding, just vote libertarian.

let’s not forget the massive blackouts in New York as well

This S.O.B won’t even say the Pledge of Allegience, wants to completely take away our RIGHT to own a gun, and has all these retarded, I mean RETARDED, ideas that he has no idea how to accomplish and people like him? Anyone can come up with good sounding, yet, IMPRACTICLE ideas! Here’s one for you, how about a car that runs on imagination? Do I get any credit for that? it’s possible you know! I believe we can!

Anytime a politician promises anything beyond his elected term (4 years for President), it’s a symbolic soundbite. Furthermore governnment should define standards, not solutions. As imperfect as CAFE may be, it still lets the manufacturers define how they will meet its goals. More importantly, CAFE is now being superceded by market demands for more fuel efficient vehicles.
What would be interesting is if gas prices collapse (as some economists are predicting), will a President Obama still keep this goal?

why should we lower taxes on imported cars hell we should raise them so more cars are built in the US at least then we would have more manufacturing jobs. Hell most nissans and toyota’s are built here so it isn’t liek you import humper will cry and when you say but the F150 is built in mexico well NAFTA same for the camero too. Really what Barack Obama should say is a plug in Camaro hybrid for every family in america then I would vote for him

Can we get a “None of the above” box on the ballot this november?

oh and i heard recently that nObama doesn’t want to drill offshore for oil but he wants to tap into our oil reserves to help ease those gas prices, even Cali and Florida have said they don’t mind drilling

Heres why plug-ins aren’t the answer-
What about all the folks without a garage?
What about all the folks who live in apartments-they won’t have access to outlets.

The answer is hydrogen fuel cells plus E-85 for those who can’t afford it and to make the transition to all Hydrogen vehicles.
Ethanol can come from sources other than corn. Look at Brazil.

I agree Hemi

Steve, conduit and j-boxes can be installed just about anywhere, so I don’t see that as a big problem. You don’t have to have a garage in order to have an outlet. However, the impact to the grid is a bit more serious than “where the hell am I going to plug this in?” Also, keep in mind that they are still hybrids, and they don’t need to be plugged in all the time. The gas motor will still recharge the batteries.

RaineMan, yes we can. It’s called 6pack & pizza on November 4th along with movie on demand. At least 40% of US citizens utilize this option.

what amazes me about hybrids, that not only motor recharges the batteries, but heat parasitic losses and breaking inertia are used to recharge batteries. Other then that I prefer diesel any time.

So many dumb comments in this thread already… About the only thing not here yet is “Al Gore invented the Internet!”

Injunraiv, Al Gore invented the internet! There, are you happy?

I much prefer this site to be automotive vs. political, but here goes.

Obama’s plan is exactly the kind of thing that will get him elected. The technology is at our doorstep and the incentives to industry should usher it in quicker. Plug-in hybrids have the real promise of significantly reducing fuel costs, and that’s something middle class Americans will listen to at the polls.

As far as Obama as a man, I have nothing against McCain, but when Obama was giving a speech to crowds of hundreds of thousands in Berlin, McCain was answering questions from a podium in Columbus, OH. Obama is certainly presidential.

xyunya,
All due respect, but I think G.W.’s legacy in Iraq will prove that the decision to invade–however justified from a humanitarian viewpoint–was hasty and ill informed–at best. Just today a pulitzer prize winning author, Suskind, was on the Today show promoting his book about the fact that Bush himself outright *ignored* evidence that Iraq was WMD free. Once insiders emerge from the political bubble of working in the White House, we’ll know the true story.

And I don’t buy for a second that Bush can wash his hands of his decision to invade Iraq because it was based on the information handed to him. And, frankly, that is one scary attitude towards leadership. Of course, Bush isn’t gonna go out and get the intel himself, but if he is going to sacririce thousands of lives, many many billions of dollars or our taxpayers’ money, then he better have intel from a foreign asset, satellite photos, or a goddamn receipt for uranium delivered to Hussain’s house.

Bush can’t point to the proof, but, and this is the cynic in me talking, he’s been in bed with oil for years. His National Security Adviser, Condi Rice, was a board member of Chevron for 10 years, and had an oil tanker named after her for crissakes! The person heading U.S. national security interests had an oil tanker named after her?!

After taking office, Bush developed an energy policy by meeting with Big Oil, and only Big Oil.

Now, me the cynic: Bush invaded Iraq because a destabilized Middle East can wreak havoc on U.S. Big Oil interest. Only Saudi oil is in the top five oil imports from that region, so we probably don’t even know if Iranian or Iraqi oil smells different than Canadian or Venezuelan oil, but the rest of the world sure as hell knows. If the Middle East spirals out of control, American companies may not be able to do much about it…. but American military might parked–and comfortable–on the Middle East’s doorstep probably can.

So, Obama or McCain, either would be a HUGE improvement over G.W. Our electric grid can handle the influx of 1 million plug-in hybrids, but eventually more/better power infrastructure will be needed. The fact that U.S. citizens have more and more plug-ins may actually ease the restrictions on energy growth, like nuclear, or promote advancement of alternative energies.

In the end, McCain or Obama? I actually haven’t made up my mind, but it’s stories like this that have me paying attention.

al gore also invented LLN

xyunya (I’m not picking on you intentionally, honest),

The big problem with diesel is that the U.S. is not equipped to process enough of it, should diesel be more prevalent. It’s a different refining process, and already the U.S. exports a lot of its diesel to Europe, so the continent can meet its demand.

Have you seen the price of disel these days? It would only get worse if U.S. diesel demand were higher.

So, I like plug-ins. I especially like the Volt, which can theoretically utilize a fuel cell or other biomass fuel, etc., as its secondary powerplant. Plug-ins seem to be the best option right now, because we can use them with existing infrastructure, and they are flexible for the future….

you know how I know Al Gore is gay? He claims to have “invented” the internet…

Scarface03, as I pointed out I don’t know if Bush made right/wrong decision with Iraq, I don’t have access to information that he had leading to that decision and therefore I refuse to make decision based on misinformation, soundbites and someones desire to make a buck on sensation. Not to mention simple political fragmentation of our society and divisions of political parties and sub-parties. With all respect to Pulitzer winning author, he does not have that information either, or he would be dead .
We can compute lives lost and cost incurred, but we fail to see other factors affecting our existence due the course of the war: change in political opinion toward US in civilized countries. Sarkozy and Merkel being prime examples - they are very sympathetic to US vs. leaders they replace who were outright confrontational), change of political landscape in Lebanon: because they saw election in Baghdad and wanted their shot at political freedom. I am sure there are others I am not aware off. As well as costs I am not aware off.

There is no problems with diesels in US. There is problem with supply of cleaner diesel fuel then we used to consume. Factories are not up on the production curve to produce cleaner diesel. I am not stating “clean” diesel, simply because “our” diesel still sub par compare to European, ergo added cost to the engine development. Hopefully, this is behind manufacturers and clean diesel engines will start coming to dealership near you.
I am all for plug ins and plug outs, but Volt at 40K a pop is not exactly a household item and beyond 40 mi. you will need to burn fuel. And it is promised land, like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. speech. It’s not here and we don’t know when it will come. I’ve been conditioned by GM that whatever comes out usually not even close to what was promised, they are welcome to unconvince me, but haven’t happen in the past 30 years.

Read the news. Obama’s energy plan consists of ‘inflating your tires’ and this would be more than enough to stop our need for imported oil. He was against drilling in the OCS, now he’s for it. Nancy Pelosi asked Dems to back offshore drilling, and she would stand against it. The greens don’t want hydro-electric power (dams are bad for the fishies), don’t want wind farms (birds might fly into them), don’t want nuclear (still have bad taste in their mouth from 3 mile island, though France is mostly nuclear), no coal, no oil, no natural gas. So what are we going to do? Only solar? What happens on a cloudy day?

Scarface: How do you call that snake (NObama) presidential when he is giving a speech in Berlin? Yes, Germany is our ally, but there are enough problems in this country as it is, and although I don’t like McCain either I like the fact that he hasn’t made a world tour like NObama did. Who gives a flying ****ing **** about the other countries around the world. If some of our allies come to us and need our help, yes, lets help them, but **** everyone else who turned their backs on us during whatever. We all need to focus on America, and not Berlin, or the middle east or China or wherever. It’s people like you that cause companies like Tyson to drop Memorial day for some muslim holiday. The way you think makes me sick. If you don’t like the way America does things, then get the **** out. I certainly might if B HO gets in…

Does everyone remember when Australia told all the muslims that if they did not like their Christian nation values then they could leave? I remember, and I wish that America would do the same thing…to anyone who wants to change our nation. Sure, support and practice your own religion, that’s great, but DO NOT try to change the traditions and ideals of this nation. If you want to do that, go back to your own nation.

hbcbob3, McCain had a large number (I think 9) tours of foreign countries as part of his job as a senator (that is how he interpreted his job). Obama never did it, because less then 2 years in Senate was a stepping stone to concur our nation divided.
I share your believe that Obama would not be a good president, since he exploits divisiveness in the country right now and will definitely pursue far leftist agenda if elected. However, President’s job is actually more foreign relationship then internal affairs. Internal issues fall on Congress shoulders - they are much closer to their constituency and local needs.

brassmonkey, on cloudy day we can ask Pelosi to flash and moon solar panels. Also, Hillary Clinton has a larger flat and large moon - she can help.

Also, Hillary Clinton has a rather flat and large moon - she can help.

This guy’s an idiot.

xyunya: You’re right, I keep forgetting that McCain’s been senator, haha. But anyway, you know my stance on Obama, and I understand that most of the president’s job is foreign affairs, but that’s what I’m saying, that (although it isn’t going to change) needs to change. I think there are too many problems and too much other crap going on here to worry about why China can’t grow food in the city, or why Nigerians have no clue about STDs. Yes, there are a lot of problems in the world, but it shouldn’t be our job (and our money) going to be the super hero trying to better the world.

And BTW Pelosi and Clinton would be good candidates for that…no one would be distracted by their exposed…ugh…parts.

hbcbob3 - I am as angry as you about Tyson. They dropped Labor Day as a paid holiday, but if you aren’t a terrorist, you can still have Labor Day as a paid holiday. The paid holidays are the employee’s birthday, New Year’s Day, Martin Luther King Jr. Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Thanksgiving and Christmas. I find it interesting that the unions are bowing to the terrorists that work at Tyson and give them not only a paid holiday, but a dedicated place to “pray”. Even better, can you identify the holiday that is not on the list of paid holidays? Here’s a hint: the day Jesus Christ rose. Yes…EASTER!! So, Tyson has, in effect, put MLK above Jesus. Why does MLK get a paid day, but no Easter? Are they supposed to be satisfied with Christmas? And we are expected to be OK with this? Not me.

Thats stupid….. where do these people think the power from an outlet comes from? Magic?? Fairies??
stupid.

THERE * IS * NO * FREE * RIDE.

There is if she’s really desperate…

hbcbob3,
Your critique of Obama not being presidential is a pretty narrow view, especially as you concede that a president’s job (at least right now) is mostly foreign affairs. My point is, the fact that someone who is not even President (someone who doesn’t officially even have the party’s nomination) can go overseas and command such a large gathering gives you an idea of his popularity and potential influence on the world stage. This is something that George W. certainly lacks, and mostly because of his Iraq policy. If you honestly think an American President should ignore every country but the U.S., then you do not have an understanding at all of politics and the importance of domestic AND foreign policy. Anyone who reads a newspaper should concede that.

hbcbob3, the rest of your response to my post is full of significant inconsistencies. You don’t want people to trounce on American tradition and ideals, when those tradition and ideals are based on a policy of non-exclusion. Your individual viewpoint is no better or less significant than mine. The most unAmerican thing you can say is to kick someone out of our country because his view is different than yours. And it is unbridled arrogance for you to decide whose ideals and traditions should prevail.

I would also disagree with xyunya that the U.S. president’s job is “mostly” foreign affairs, but that is undoubtedly important. George Sr. told his campaign staff that he didn’t need to worry about domestic policy because of the Desert Storm success and his popularity from that…. and we all know how his bid for a second term turned out….

Let us do the math:

1 million plug-in hybrid motor vehicles by 2015.

Out of 300 + million personal vehicles registered in the U.S. (2007 numbers)

Which translates to roughly a .3% potential reduction in petroleum dependency for U.S. driver’s, assuming miles accumulated per year remain constant.

Which will have an even infintesimally more fractional effect on global oil dependence when Chinese and Indian private vehicle ownership exceeds a projected 800 million by 2025.

athens -
I don’t agree with your assumptions. Of the 300 million cars, what percentage of those are used as daily commuters? I would venture that if you replaced a million of those cars with hybrids, the reduction in petroleum usage would be a bit more than 0.3%.

Who cares if Obama can “command such a large gathering” in Germany. He is running for president of the U.S. not Germany. Obama is nothing more than a good car salesman. He’ll tells us what we want to here but when he has us (god forbid), he will f.uck us.. Mark my words..I can NOT believe that people are even considering this guy to represent a country that he will not even pledge allegiance to or will not hold his hand over his heart.. That really breaks my heart because I love this country and it seems like no one else does anymore. Like I’ve said before, I see a new American Revolutionary War on the horizon and it starts when Obama gets elected, only this time we will be fighting to save our country from Obama’s rule instead of Great Britain

Unless you’re completely delusional or suffer from some other cranial incapacity you know that Democrats increase taxes.

It’s a fact we have the WORST congress in history. Why? Because they’re a bunch of liberals. I hate the fact that they are wanting to give “reparations” to people I’ve had nothing to do with. How dare they say I’m sorry for me and the rest of the middle class white Americans who have created NO CRIMES against blacks and native Americans. Fking liberals for you. Lets vote obama in so we can lose our right to own guns, give away BILLIONS MORE to $H!TTY @$$ africa, no longer say the Pledge of Allegience, lose all our American history etc.

Obama is an expert at everything, including speaking from both sides of his mouth. If you don’t believe it, just ask him. Don’t worry, he only lies when his lips are moving.

I hope we are electing president of US. Yes Obama gathered large crowds in Germany, but not larger then Fuhrer. Should Adolf be president of US?

The funny thing is, Adolf had a better resumé.

McCain is a much better qualified candidate. He finished near the bottom of his class at the Naval Academy so he knows hot it feels to be the dumbest guy in the room so that qualifies him to fix education. He was one of the Keating Five so he knows all about financial crimes and that will help him to fix the housing mess. He was a POW so that qualifies him to just about everything involving foreign policy. He married a very wealthy woman so that shows he knows personal finance. If only he had a touch of Alzheimer’s like Reagan and a cocaine and alcohol problem like our current leader, he’d be the perfect candidate.

and that large crowd in germany was for a rock concert that was going on at the same time, so you also had alot of drunk germans there as well

and that large crowd in Sturgis was there to pick up their methadone prescription, so you also had a lot of stoned bikers there as well.

Scarface: Ok, I agree with you on some of your points. I do understand that foreign policy is important, but it shouldn’t take precidence over domestic like it seems to have been in the past few years. I’m not one to display the American flag on my vehicle or in my front yard, but when I hear the American National Anthem, I stand up, remove my hat, and place my hand over my heart…and when I recite the Pledge of Alligence, I say “under GOD”. Obama may be a great speaker, but if he doesn’t convey the principles of this nation to other nations, then what good is his “foreign policy”. I am not a fan of John McCain, but at least he wears an American flag pin, and does all the other good crap a president is supposed to do to be the representative of our nation.

After September 11, 2001, I don’t think a muslim would be a good representative of our nation…

hbcbob3,
I respect what you’re saying, but as a final thought, I think it’s important to keep in mind that 9-11 didn’t happen because of Islam, but because of a radical fanatic whose ideals are not endorsed by any mainstream religion. Although, I admit that I too find myself too easily forgetting that, and much of American culture still stands in direct conflict to some Muslim ideals, but the conflict of ideals doesn’t concern me, as long as there is mutual respect and tolerance. I have a great amount of respect for Obama and McCain, and either would be a huge improvement….

Besides, in post-World War II times, should VW and Porsche owners be ashmaed of their German cars? Especially 911 drivers because Dr. Porsche worked for the fuhror himself?